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Vehicle Excise Duty.

 Future War Cultist wrote:
Vehicle Excise Duty.

I'll pay that for my bike. No problem.
It's based on vehicle emissions so my bill will be £0.

Also bear in mind the tax for my car isn't reduced if I commute by bike instead of by car (which I do) so if anything I'm over - paying tax.

Cyclist with over 10k miles logged here. I'm an odd case where I absolutely follow the laws of the road. I agree with having insurance

Random people that live in a city, wear headphones, text, never oil their chain, and refuse to have a front and rear light? Yeah they should get fines/tickets. I've received tickets and warnings before. Mostly related to taking the lane in a 20-30mph area which I had the right to or not having the correct light setup during sunset. I understand where you're coming from OP. As someone who rides 100mi a week during the warmer seasons for fun I hate most people that ride.

I just reenrolled in benefits at work and I ride in events for the company I work for... I have an x8 salary injury/riding insurance for the past few years

Don't be a dentist

 Stevefamine wrote:
Cyclist with over 10k miles logged here. I'm an odd case where I absolutely follow the laws of the road. I agree with having insurance

Random people that live in a city, wear headphones, text, never oil their chain, and refuse to have a front and rear light? Yeah they should get fines/tickets. I've received tickets and warnings before. Mostly related to taking the lane in a 20-30mph area which I had the right to or not having the correct light setup during sunset. I understand where you're coming from OP. As someone who rides 100mi a week during the warmer seasons for fun I hate most people that ride.

I just reenrolled in benefits at work and I ride in events for the company I work for... I have an x8 salary injury/riding insurance for the past few years

Don't be a dentist

Oh yes, I'll have to admit that the behaviour of lots of cyclists makes me furious. But trying to make them get a license won't change that.

 Dreadwinter wrote:

 darkcloak wrote:
I've decided to start a petition to require cyclists to hold a license and posses insurance and to be more strictly bound by the rules of the road. It only makes sense. All other vehicles using public roads must be insured and driven by licensed drivers. Why do cyclists get a free pass?

Because they are not driving a death machine that can kill on a catastrophic level in the right situation.

This is a pretty bad idea and it wont go anywhere.

I found the cyclist!

It's sheer idiocy to allow people unregulated use of a public road. Why would anyone want to ride alongside "death machines" without proper training and insurance?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
And as far as Yodrins comment.

Well funny he should say that because yes, I have been spat on by cyclists, had my car defaced and even gotten into altercations with cyclists. I'm a 20 year driver with no demerits and no tickets.

Yes cyclists piss me off, but I'm the one with the "death machine" so I drive carefully. At this point however I genuinely don't care about the life of the cyclist, I just don't want to ruin my life by having killed someone. The guilt and legal implications would make life very difficult.

Also the law states, in Canada, and in most other places too I'm sure, that any vehicle must not go so slow as to interfere with the safety and flow of traffic and vehicles unable to travel at a safe place are required to pull over to allow others to pass and may be asked by police to remove the vehicle from the road entirely.

How fast can one pedal a bike up a grade? Even on level ground with full traction, how fast can a cyclist go? 30kph? That's school zone limit and unsafe for regular traffic.

But oh no, by all means. Let's just let these idiots putter around the road for whatever feel-good reason we can think of.

Bike paths? Where, and who pays? Are we seriously going to carve yet more of our green spaces up with pavement trails just for the sake of a few granola crunching idiots who can't be bothered to learn road safety and pay for their own coverage?

 darkcloak wrote:


I've decided to start a petition to require cyclists to hold a license and posses insurance and to be more strictly bound by the rules of the road. It only makes sense. All other vehicles using public roads must be insured and driven by licensed drivers. Why do cyclists get a free pass?

For the same reason you don't require a license for walking. Because bicycles do not have any sort of motor, are really slow compared to cars or motorcycles, and much easier to control. This means the chance of a serious accident with a bicycle is negligible.

 darkcloak wrote:
Especially when they are so much more vulnerable to fatal harm!

Only when car drivers do not pay proper attention. Fatal accidents with bicycles are extremely rare... except when cars get involved. Except same thing with pedestrians. Almost no fatal accidents happen when just pedestrians are involved, it is only when cars get involved that fatalities happen. So the proper response would be better training for motorists and better city infrastructure to keep slow and fast traffic separated. Not something as utterly ridiculous as a bicycle or walking license.

Take a look of the Netherlands. More bicycles than people, but zero issues (well, not zero obviously, but it is pretty good here nonetheless). What you need are roads that are built properly to separate different flows of traffic as much as possible, and motorists who are properly trained to deal with slow, more vulnerable traffic (hint: adjust your speed and keep your distance).

 LordofHats wrote:

But then again cyclists are kind of gigantic ass hats a solid 75% of the time, and it would be really nice if we did something about it like citing them for not using proper signals, riding on the road when there's a perfectly good sidewalk/bike lane right there, and other blatantly irresponsible behavior.

Motorists do all that as well though, and worse. But the worst thing is that they are doing it while driving a highly dangerous metal monstrosity weighing multiple tons while moving at very high speeds that can easily kill anyone it hits. The vast majority of road traffic fatalities are caused by irresponsible motorists. And they still get away with it 99.99% of the time.

Also, in my own experience as a motorist, it is not the cyclists or pedestrians that annoy me the most (though they are really annoying at times), it is the freight trucks and agricultural vehicles. God, those things should be banned! They are way too big and it always seems like they are driven by irresponsible maniacs (though there are pleasant exceptions). I only have had a driving license for a year and I already have lost count of the times I was forced nearly off the road by an overly aggressive truck or tractor (they are a menace when cycling as well, but at least on a bike you can jump off to safety).

When riding a motorcycle, the default assumption (literally taught in MSF courses) is "I'm invisible, and everyone is trying to kill me."
The default mindset of many cyclists seems to be "I'm a pedestrian, so I ALWAYS have right of way."
I understand that motorcycles and bicycles are different, motorcycles can keep up with traffic, etc., but you'd think that a similar mindset would be beneficial.
Granted, every person is different. My neighbors are avid cyclists (retired and still ride 10+ miles per day) but are smart about it. They use bike paths when possible, and I've seen them ride their street bikes on grass many times to give way to pedestrians. They always wear high vis gear and helmets. I live near multiple roundabouts and they walk their bike across a crosswalk in heavy traffic.
No group (drivers, riders, or cyclists) is perfect, but I notice many more careless folks in the bicycling community.

Talinsin wrote:
When riding a motorcycle, the default assumption (literally taught in MSF courses) is "I'm invisible, and everyone is trying to kill me."
The default mindset of many cyclists seems to be "I'm a pedestrian, so I ALWAYS have right of way."
I understand that motorcycles and bicycles are different, motorcycles can keep up with traffic, etc., but you'd think that a similar mindset would be beneficial.
Granted, every person is different. My neighbors are avid cyclists (retired and still ride 10+ miles per day) but are smart about it. They use bike paths when possible, and I've seen them ride their street bikes on grass many times to give way to pedestrians. They always wear high vis gear and helmets. I live near multiple roundabouts and they walk their bike across a crosswalk in heavy traffic.
No group (drivers, riders, or cyclists) is perfect, but I notice many more careless folks in the bicycling community.

Actually, it is usually the car drivers who have a "I am bigger and faster, so I always have right of way" mindset that are the primary issue and cause of most fatal accidents. And that puts both motor- and bicycles at risk. The proper response of course to put the blame the guilty party, and force motorists to become more responsible through better education and more stringent requirements for driving licenses. When you are driving a car, the road isn't just there for you, you need to accommodate more vulnerable road users (because they are vulnerable and you are not). Of course, some cyclists are just idiots. But that is way less of an issue than the fact that many motorists are idiots. Because again, motorists are driving a ton of metal at high speeds. Cyclists do not.

What really needs to happen is:
Force cyclists over a particular age to get trained and licensed.
Make drivers retest for their license to be renewed every 10/15/20 years.

Cyclists need to be held to the same rules as drivers, as they share the same roads.

Drivers 'forget' the most basic things, like signalling, lane-use on roundabouts or multi-lane roads (keep left unless overtaking), etc. A lot of people choose to go to speed-awareness courses when they get caught speeding. Extend that, make it regular for all drivers, and throw in common faults. This makes roads safer, and insurance costs drop.

Wishful thinking, but it'll sort out a huge amount of problems on the road.

I won't lie, I laughed out loud the second I read "death machine" There's the cyclist.

 Skinnereal wrote:
What really needs to happen is:
Force cyclists over a particular age to get trained and licensed.
Make drivers retest for their license to be renewed every 10/15/20 years.

Cyclists need to be held to the same rules as drivers, as they share the same roads.

Drivers 'forget' the most basic things, like signalling, lane-use on roundabouts or multi-lane roads (keep left unless overtaking), etc. A lot of people choose to go to speed-awareness courses when they get caught speeding. Extend that, make it regular for all drivers, and throw in common faults. This makes roads safer, and insurance costs drop.

Wishful thinking, but it'll sort out a huge amount of problems on the road.

How do you imagine a license for cyclists? Cycling is so easy that any irresponsible nitwit would be able to get a license (especially considering that many irresponsible nitwits already can get much more difficult to obtain car licenses). Pedestrians often share the same roads as well (and are often equally irresponsible as other road users). Would you also require people to have a license for walking?
It would be far more effective to just have traffic rule lessons be mandatory in schools. Teach kids from an early age how to behave. Not only will that help them get their car license later in life, it will also ensure that everyone on the road should at least have an understanding of the rules.

I do think having drivers retest for their license every 15 or 20 years is a great idea though. I often wondered about this myself, especially regarding old people who are really not fit to drive anymore but still are technically allowed to because they once got their license way back when they were young.

 Skinnereal wrote:

Make drivers retest for their license to be renewed every 10/15/20 years.

Agreed fully! It shocks me that most industries require you to get retrained every 5 or so years (varies depending on the tool some is more some is less) for most tool tickets such as brushcutters, chainsaws, tractors etc....But cars. You can pass in the year your legal to drive and then never again have to take a test or refresher. Even the old-age retest is mostly just a medical and eye check and then you're good to go on the roads.

It's honestly stupid; even good drivers forget things over time; or develop bad habits and lazy tricks. Furthermore roads change, new signs and new road designs come out. Plus that's not even accounting for the fact that you might live in, say, a very rural or urban area and thus never hit the motorways or complicated road systems for years, without any retraining (nor mandatory requirements for it) you can easily get overwhelmed moving outside of that safety zone.

Plus that assumes you're driving for all that time, my sister hasn't driven in years now and will require at least a couple of refresher lessons, however the government doesn't require it at all. Again you can pass as soon as you can legally drive and then never touch a car for years and still be perfectly legal.


It shouldn't be on the person, government and legislation should step in (just like they do for industry) and enforce at least some measure of refresher and experience system.



Heck I'm annoyed that things like skidpads and ice driving is optional and not required at all in the UK.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Iron_Captain wrote:

 Skinnereal wrote:
What really needs to happen is:
Force cyclists over a particular age to get trained and licensed.
Make drivers retest for their license to be renewed every 10/15/20 years.

Cyclists need to be held to the same rules as drivers, as they share the same roads.

Drivers 'forget' the most basic things, like signalling, lane-use on roundabouts or multi-lane roads (keep left unless overtaking), etc. A lot of people choose to go to speed-awareness courses when they get caught speeding. Extend that, make it regular for all drivers, and throw in common faults. This makes roads safer, and insurance costs drop.

Wishful thinking, but it'll sort out a huge amount of problems on the road.

How do you imagine a license for cyclists? Cycling is so easy that any irresponsible nitwit would be able to get a license (especially considering that many irresponsible nitwits already can get much more difficult to obtain car licenses). Pedestrians often share the same roads as well (and are often equally irresponsible as other road users). Would you also require people to have a license for walking?
It would be far more effective to just have traffic rule lessons be mandatory in schools. Teach kids from an early age how to behave. Not only will that help them get their car license later in life, it will also ensure that everyone on the road should at least have an understanding of the rules.

The licence wouldn't be so much about mechanical operation of the bicycle. It would be about the mechanics of using the road network. YES most of it IS simple; however its complicated when you add in other road users and multiple simplistic interactions at the same time. Furthermore by giving proper training you teach a cyclist not just how to turn a corner, but how a car can perceive turning a corner. What other road users are expecting in certain situations, how they are likely to behave. This isn't just watching for proper road usage its making a cyclist aware of things like car blind spots; typical turning behaviour etc... By arming the cyclist with quality formal training it helps them predict car movements, sights and more.


Another thing - my driving instructor felt that all drivers, upon passing their test, should spend a morning in a lorry. Just to see how different a machine they are. Her view was if more drivers understood the blind spots and also the way gears work they'd be far les likely to nip and slip around lorries in traffic. Ergo no more cutting right infront of them or lurking in a blind spot unaware that they are in one.

Again its all awareness and situation - the more you train the more you can prevent accidents and problems before they happen .

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
Never had a problem with cyclists around here. But this is SoCal; there's so much road traffic chances are that any cyclists pushing it would be taught a very forceful lesson in natural selection.

Totally opposite SoCal experience on my end.

Elbow's experience lines up with mine. If I can, I'll avoid the right-hand lane at all costs because of those two-wheeled monsters.

 Elbows wrote:
In the US, most places we just deal with the self-important donkey-caves who ride on public roads for exercise during busy traffic hours...exercising their "right" to cycle on the road at 15-20 mph while stacking up traffic behind them.

Just a quick anecdote; one of my favourite encounters with one of "those" cyclists was on the way to work. The cyclist in question threw his bike across the bonnet of the car infront screaming at the driver for not seeing him at the roundabout as you entered camp. This was at pre-dawn so visibility was poor. Clothing? CS95s with no lights or hi vis stuff.

But it was the drivers fault.......

Cheers

Andrew

It might be worth thinking about how comparable everyone's experiences of cycling and cyclists are given the breadth of geographical locations those experiences have been developed in and how staggeringly different the behaviour of the average road users (of all vehicles) can be in different places.


Might start to push people towards thinking about good and bad examples rather than good and bad generalisations?

nfe wrote:
It might be worth thinking about how comparable everyone's experiences of cycling and cyclists are given the breadth of geographical locations those experiences have been developed in and how staggeringly different the behaviour of the average road users (of all vehicles) can be in different places.


Might start to push people towards thinking about good and bad examples rather than good and bad generalisations?

Personally I always think these discussions get sidetracked into personal anecdotes too often and get polarized into a hate game too fast; esp when many people are both drivers and cyclists. One ends up trying to play the blame game with things, which honestly never results in productive output.

I think blame is on both sides and measures should aim to try and prevent issues from both sides. More cycle lanes, better training for drivers and cyclists (actual training for cyclists in a formal environment) etc....

Today I watched a bike messenger get on our office building with a LED-thingie that was integral to the backpack and allowed him to make left, right, stop and danger signals, and even sorry and thank you.

It thought it was seriously cool for someone cycling in town.

 Iron_Captain wrote:

How do you imagine a license for cyclists? Cycling is so easy that any irresponsible nitwit would be able to get a license (especially considering that many irresponsible nitwits already can get much more difficult to obtain car licenses). Pedestrians often share the same roads as well (and are often equally irresponsible as other road users). Would you also require people to have a license for walking?
It would be far more effective to just have traffic rule lessons be mandatory in schools.

Well said. Heck, teach cycling in grade school, including rules-of-the-road.

I'm very thankful that Aurora, co, has a network of dedicated bicycle paths. They have bike lanes on some roads too, but actual paths all over. I can ride my bike 7 miles to work and never get on anything but small, neighborhood roads.

I suggest anyone complaining about the behaviour of cyclists should go and spend a week cycling to work. When cycling I would say I get an average of one dangerous pass for every hour. Whilst some cyclists can be annoying there are just as many drivers who are dangerous. Too many drivers think they own the road and have no understanding of or respect for other road users. This thread has already covered just about every ignorant cliche people spout about cyclists:

Holding up traffic. No, they are traffic. If you can’t overtake that’s your problem. I don’t see cars diving out of the way when I’m on my motorbike.

Cycling “in the middle of the road”. Because they have every right to and do it for their own safety. If you can’t overtake because of oncoming traffic you shouldn’t be overtaking where we they are in the lane.

Road tax/VED. It’s a tax on the damage cars do. Damage to roads is a square of weight. Cars to thousands of times more damage to the roads. Cars, even zero emissions ones emitted thousands of times more pollution.

High viz/helmets. They are not compulsory anywhere, except helmets in Australia. Head injuries are far more common in car accidents than cycling. Perhaps drivers should wear helmets. In Australia there has been no change in injury’s since the change in law to make them compulsory.

“Cyclists get away with breaking the law”. Like drivers who speed, or jump red lights, or drive around with broken headlights?

Before you complain walk a mile in the other persons shoes. Cycle to work for a week and see what it is like... You will see why cyclists get so upset sometimes. People cycling across an empty crossing(which I never do) is nothing compared to the close passes you get day in day out from idiots in cars who have no respect for your safety or life in their insulated bubbles.

 Iron_Captain wrote:
Cycling is so easy that any irresponsible nitwit would be able to get a license.

You've obviously never seen me trying to ride a bicycle ...

"Balance" does not seem to come naturally to me ...

 Steve steveson wrote:
I suggest anyone complaining about the behaviour of cyclists should go and spend a week cycling to work. When cycling I would say I get an average of one dangerous pass for every hour. Whilst some cyclists can be annoying there are just as many drivers who are dangerous. Too many drivers think they own the road and have no understanding of or respect for other road users. This thread has already covered just about every ignorant cliche people spout about cyclists:

 Steve steveson wrote:
Before you complain walk a mile in the other persons shoes. Cycle to work for a week and see what it is like... You will see why cyclists get so upset sometimes. People cycling across an empty crossing(which I never do) is nothing compared to the close passes you get day in day out from idiots in cars who have no respect for your safety or life in their insulated bubbles.

Yeah, sorry but no. Screw cyclists. I may be an "idiot" in my "insulated bubble" but I don't swerve into traffic erratically, or choke traffic when I decide to drive 15 MPH in a 40 MPH zone because that is as fast as my conveyance can move.

As for taxes, yes, those are for road repairs. For damage done, and paid for by, motor vehicles. I pay for the damage my car does to the road and I get to drive on said road. When you pay annual registration taxes, and weekly gas taxes for your bicycle then you can claim some ownership of the roads. Until then, sorry, you are a glorified pedestrian in my eyes and a nuisance.

Also, my insulated bubble weighs over a ton, so feel free to challenge it.

 DarkTraveler777 wrote:

 Steve steveson wrote:
I suggest anyone complaining about the behaviour of cyclists should go and spend a week cycling to work. When cycling I would say I get an average of one dangerous pass for every hour. Whilst some cyclists can be annoying there are just as many drivers who are dangerous. Too many drivers think they own the road and have no understanding of or respect for other road users. This thread has already covered just about every ignorant cliche people spout about cyclists:

 Steve steveson wrote:
Before you complain walk a mile in the other persons shoes. Cycle to work for a week and see what it is like... You will see why cyclists get so upset sometimes. People cycling across an empty crossing(which I never do) is nothing compared to the close passes you get day in day out from idiots in cars who have no respect for your safety or life in their insulated bubbles.

Yeah, sorry but no. Screw cyclists. I may be an "idiot" in my "insulated bubble" but I don't swerve into traffic erratically, or choke traffic when I decide to drive 15 MPH in a 40 MPH zone because that is as fast as my conveyance can move.

As for taxes, yes, those are for road repairs. For damage done, and paid for by, motor vehicles. I pay for the damage my car does to the road and I get to drive on said road. When you pay annual registration taxes, and weekly gas taxes for your bicycle then you can claim some ownership of the roads. Until then, sorry, you are a glorified pedestrian in my eyes and a nuisance.

Also, my insulated bubble weighs over a ton, so feel free to challenge it.

Lo and behold people, this attitude right here, is why we get fatal traffic accidents. Sorry, but that is not a responsible attitude for driving a car.

 Iron_Captain wrote:

 DarkTraveler777 wrote:

 Steve steveson wrote:
I suggest anyone complaining about the behaviour of cyclists should go and spend a week cycling to work. When cycling I would say I get an average of one dangerous pass for every hour. Whilst some cyclists can be annoying there are just as many drivers who are dangerous. Too many drivers think they own the road and have no understanding of or respect for other road users. This thread has already covered just about every ignorant cliche people spout about cyclists:

 Steve steveson wrote:
Before you complain walk a mile in the other persons shoes. Cycle to work for a week and see what it is like... You will see why cyclists get so upset sometimes. People cycling across an empty crossing(which I never do) is nothing compared to the close passes you get day in day out from idiots in cars who have no respect for your safety or life in their insulated bubbles.

Yeah, sorry but no. Screw cyclists. I may be an "idiot" in my "insulated bubble" but I don't swerve into traffic erratically, or choke traffic when I decide to drive 15 MPH in a 40 MPH zone because that is as fast as my conveyance can move.

As for taxes, yes, those are for road repairs. For damage done, and paid for by, motor vehicles. I pay for the damage my car does to the road and I get to drive on said road. When you pay annual registration taxes, and weekly gas taxes for your bicycle then you can claim some ownership of the roads. Until then, sorry, you are a glorified pedestrian in my eyes and a nuisance.

Also, my insulated bubble weighs over a ton, so feel free to challenge it.

Lo and behold people, this attitude right here, is why we get fatal traffic accidents.

Oh feth off, if Steve steveson can make obnoxious statements then it is fair game in this thread.

Also, who is more of an idiot? The person trying to enter the flow of traffic with multi-ton machines while they swivel around on two wheels and a few pieces of bolted-together aluminum, or the people moving along in traffic with other similarly-sized vehicles?

But yeah, I'm the reason for fatal traffic accidents.

 DarkTraveler777 wrote:

 Steve steveson wrote:
I suggest anyone complaining about the behaviour of cyclists should go and spend a week cycling to work. When cycling I would say I get an average of one dangerous pass for every hour. Whilst some cyclists can be annoying there are just as many drivers who are dangerous. Too many drivers think they own the road and have no understanding of or respect for other road users. This thread has already covered just about every ignorant cliche people spout about cyclists:

 Steve steveson wrote:
Before you complain walk a mile in the other persons shoes. Cycle to work for a week and see what it is like... You will see why cyclists get so upset sometimes. People cycling across an empty crossing(which I never do) is nothing compared to the close passes you get day in day out from idiots in cars who have no respect for your safety or life in their insulated bubbles.

Yeah, sorry but no. Screw cyclists. I may be an "idiot" in my "insulated bubble" but I don't swerve into traffic erratically, or choke traffic when I decide to drive 15 MPH in a 40 MPH zone because that is as fast as my conveyance can move.

As for taxes, yes, those are for road repairs. For damage done, and paid for by, motor vehicles. I pay for the damage my car does to the road and I get to drive on said road. When you pay annual registration taxes, and weekly gas taxes for your bicycle then you can claim some ownership of the roads. Until then, sorry, you are a glorified pedestrian in my eyes and a nuisance.

Also, my insulated bubble weighs over a ton, so feel free to challenge it.

You might want to take a look at how roads are funded before making statements like that. I don’t know the details in the US, but given you have far more miles of road per person and far lower taxes on cars and fuel than the UK I would suggest that if our taxes on those things don’t cover the cost of roads, and the majority of road costs come from general taxes you are wrong about motor vehicles paying for the roads.

And as for causing congestion, I’d suggest that, yes, you do cause it. The vast majority of traffic is caused by too many cars, not slow cyclists. It’s not the cyclists causing the problem, it’s the cars coming the other way stopping you from passing. It’s shear number of cars trying to use the road. I bet the vast majority of the time you are in traffic it’s down to too many cars. I get stuck cycling trying to pass cars all stuck in city traffic far more often than I get stuck behind a cyclist when I’m driving. If people cycled when they could rather than getting in the car without thinking congestion would disappear over night.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 DarkTraveler777 wrote:

 Iron_Captain wrote:

 DarkTraveler777 wrote:

 Steve steveson wrote:
I suggest anyone complaining about the behaviour of cyclists should go and spend a week cycling to work. When cycling I would say I get an average of one dangerous pass for every hour. Whilst some cyclists can be annoying there are just as many drivers who are dangerous. Too many drivers think they own the road and have no understanding of or respect for other road users. This thread has already covered just about every ignorant cliche people spout about cyclists:

 Steve steveson wrote:
Before you complain walk a mile in the other persons shoes. Cycle to work for a week and see what it is like... You will see why cyclists get so upset sometimes. People cycling across an empty crossing(which I never do) is nothing compared to the close passes you get day in day out from idiots in cars who have no respect for your safety or life in their insulated bubbles.

Yeah, sorry but no. Screw cyclists. I may be an "idiot" in my "insulated bubble" but I don't swerve into traffic erratically, or choke traffic when I decide to drive 15 MPH in a 40 MPH zone because that is as fast as my conveyance can move.

As for taxes, yes, those are for road repairs. For damage done, and paid for by, motor vehicles. I pay for the damage my car does to the road and I get to drive on said road. When you pay annual registration taxes, and weekly gas taxes for your bicycle then you can claim some ownership of the roads. Until then, sorry, you are a glorified pedestrian in my eyes and a nuisance.

Also, my insulated bubble weighs over a ton, so feel free to challenge it.

Lo and behold people, this attitude right here, is why we get fatal traffic accidents.

Oh feth off, if Steve steveson can make obnoxious statements then it is fair game in this thread.

Also, who is more of an idiot? The person trying to enter the flow of traffic with multi-ton machines while they swivel around on two wheels and a few pieces of bolted-together aluminum, or the people moving along in traffic with other similarly-sized vehicles?

But yeah, I'm the reason for fatal traffic accidents.

Sorry? It’s obnoxious to call people idiots because they pass me far too close and put my life at risk? If that discribes you, yes, you ARE the reason and you need to take a long had look at yourself. I made no obnoxious statements. I think I made perfectly reasonable statements about the behaviour of some road users and countering some of the myths and fallacies. You chose to take them personally. It seems I hit a nerve. Perhaps you should take a look at what is driving this attitude before you kill someone on the road.

First it was US & NA Politics.
Then it was UK & EU politics.
I guess next it'll be "Bicycles" ... Oh ... and "Cacti" ... definitely "Cacti" ...

 Steve steveson wrote:

 DarkTraveler777 wrote:

 Steve steveson wrote:
I suggest anyone complaining about the behaviour of cyclists should go and spend a week cycling to work. When cycling I would say I get an average of one dangerous pass for every hour. Whilst some cyclists can be annoying there are just as many drivers who are dangerous. Too many drivers think they own the road and have no understanding of or respect for other road users. This thread has already covered just about every ignorant cliche people spout about cyclists:

 Steve steveson wrote:
Before you complain walk a mile in the other persons shoes. Cycle to work for a week and see what it is like... You will see why cyclists get so upset sometimes. People cycling across an empty crossing(which I never do) is nothing compared to the close passes you get day in day out from idiots in cars who have no respect for your safety or life in their insulated bubbles.

Yeah, sorry but no. Screw cyclists. I may be an "idiot" in my "insulated bubble" but I don't swerve into traffic erratically, or choke traffic when I decide to drive 15 MPH in a 40 MPH zone because that is as fast as my conveyance can move.

As for taxes, yes, those are for road repairs. For damage done, and paid for by, motor vehicles. I pay for the damage my car does to the road and I get to drive on said road. When you pay annual registration taxes, and weekly gas taxes for your bicycle then you can claim some ownership of the roads. Until then, sorry, you are a glorified pedestrian in my eyes and a nuisance.

Also, my insulated bubble weighs over a ton, so feel free to challenge it.

You might want to take a look at how roads are funded before making statements like that. I don’t know the details in the US, but given you have far more miles of road per person and far lower taxes on cars and fuel than the UK I would suggest that if our taxes on those things don’t cover the cost of roads, and the majority of road costs come from general taxes you are wrong about motor vehicles paying for the roads.

And as for causing congestion, I’d suggest that, yes, you do cause it. The vast majority of traffic is caused by too many cars, not slow cyclists. It’s not the cyclists causing the problem, it’s the cars coming the other way stopping you from passing. It’s shear number of cars trying to use the road. I bet the vast majority of the time you are in traffic it’s down to too many cars. I get stuck cycling trying to pass cars all stuck in city traffic far more often than I get stuck behind a cyclist when I’m driving. If people cycled when they could rather than getting in the car without thinking congestion would disappear over night.

I am in California, so here you go. We are taxed annual registration from the DMV (Department of Motor Vehicles) and fractions of a dollar per gallon of gasoline we buy. So, please, explain to me my country's laws again?

I also drive home on a road that is marked 40-45 MPH along various stretches, and when a cyclists is in the right-hand lane, all traffic in that lane has to go the cyclists' speed. So, again, sorry but no. Cyclists are a nuisance that don't belong on roads. Have bike paths, use the side walks, but stay the feth off the roads.


https://www.mercurynews.com/2018/07/01/gas-tax-where-does-the-money-actually-go/




Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Steve steveson wrote:



Sorry? It’s obnoxious to call people idiots because they pass me far too close and put my life at risk? If that discribes you, yes, you ARE the reason and you need to take a long had look at yourself. I made no obnoxious statements. I think I made perfectly reasonable statements about the behaviour of some road users and countering some of the myths and fallacies. You chose to take them personally. It seems I hit a nerve. Perhaps you should take a look at what is driving this attitude before you kill someone on the road.

Yes, what you posted was obnoxious. No, you did not make reasonable statements (especially regarding taxes).

I could make the same disingenuous argument that your obnoxious post was due to emotion, that nerves were struck, and that you may be responsible for causing a fatal accident. But no, I am not going to do that because it is stupid to do. I'll just listen to you and Iron Captain complain about my non-existent fatal driving record and laugh at how silly your outrage over motorists.

If your life is so constantly in jeopardy maybe choose another means of getting around town?

I dont think he was saying cyclists create ALL congestion but they certainly do cause some congestion and some dangerous situations that may or may not cause injury or death involving giant safety squares on roads designed for safety squares unless otherwise given additional space for feet powered locomotives.

a slow down caused by people trying to pass a slow vehicle or bicycle has repercussions miles away from their location.

but to say its not the cyclist fault for being an obstruction on roads is pretty.. asinine

The worst IMO are the ones who change their set of rules from vehicle to pedestrian whenever it's convenient. Yes, you can cycle on public roads (if there's no cycle lane) and cars should keep some sort of safe distance passing you. What you can't do is cycle the wrong way on a one-way street or ignore "Give way" or "Stop" signs. A bike is a vehicle despite not having an engine and it does have to follow vehicle rules unless otherwise noted (they can cycle in pedestrian-only zones, for example. At least over here=.

Spetulhu wrote:
The worst IMO are the ones who change their set of rules from vehicle to pedestrian whenever it's convenient. Yes, you can cycle on public roads (if there's no cycle lane) and cars should keep some sort of safe distance passing you. What you can't do is cycle the wrong way on a one-way street or ignore "Give way" or "Stop" signs. A bike is a vehicle despite not having an engine and it does have to follow vehicle rules unless otherwise noted (they can cycle in pedestrian-only zones, for example. At least over here=.

They really should if they want to be considered vehicles. also odd though. would it be ok to let children on bikes bike on the roads?

i remember as a snotling id bike literally everywhere and id just bike on the sidewalk. never felt in danger or was a danger to other pedestrians. if there was a crowed id just get off the bike and walk it. i guess its really different now though i haven't biked in soo many years. (also was never confronted by cops about it ether so i dunno if its even a law to not be on side walks or if cops just didnt care)