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 Irbis wrote:

 Lord Damocles wrote:
I like how the only Chaos content is Haarkon.

Maybe, just maybe, CSM are focus of book 2?

Judging from how they did the Gathering Storm books, it would be a safe bet

 Irbis wrote:

Except unless you play multiple chapters at once, it's more like 2, one specific + one generic...

Frankly, I wish they would have just done these all as generic formations. That way people would get more mileage out of this book. It is kinda waste to limit them this way. Sure, siege is kinda IF thing, but other chapters can do it too.

 Crimson wrote:

 Irbis wrote:

Except unless you play multiple chapters at once, it's more like 2, one specific + one generic...

Frankly, I wish they would have just done these all as generic formations. That way people would get more mileage out of this book. It is kinda waste to limit them this way. Sure, siege is kinda IF thing, but other chapters can do it too.

It would be nice, but given the past whining that GW dared to make super special snowflake unit X equivalent in Book Z (because only one chapter can swing swords, or ride bikes, or wear bigger armour, am I rite?) I wouldn't hold my breath. Though, I suppose you could compromise by giving 'vanilla' (other than the named 9) self-made chapters access to this, you'd have access to more formations and stuff in return for not getting special characters and relics of the official boys. But then complains would be if anything even louder, sooo...

Hurrah Sororitas get 2 pages of background

I wonder if they actually get some rules are well.

Annointed gives some hope but Throng does not sound right....

 Mr Morden wrote:
Hurrah Sororitas get 2 pages of background

I wonder if they actually get some rules are well.

Annointed gives some hope but Throng does not sound right....

If it is Sororitas and not GSC, which would be my guess, sounds more like some sort of Frateris Militia group. That would add an interesting dimension to a Ministorum army. Conscript zealots could be fun.

 Yarium wrote:

 deviantduck wrote:
Who do we think Annoited Throng is?

Either I have dyslexia, or a really sick mind. (Subtract the "R")

Must be Slaaneshi Worshippers.

Adepetus Custodes. The Emperor finally got a text to speech device.

What exactly is a formation? I keep seeing this term used here on the forum, but I don't see it anywhere on the actual publications?

Formations started in Apoc, then they released into 7th, and now into 8th. Think of formations as a task force put together in a way to gain a benefit.

A Formation is a set list of units (sometimes wargear) that you have to take in a detachment.

So you have to have This HQ, These troops, This Elite, This Heavy, etc.. and normally there is no way to chance those "must take units"

A example formation of 7th was the Skyhammer Annihilation Force, you had to take
2 Devastator Squads
2 Assault Marine Squads
2 Drop pods

Formations also give you special rules to fit that purpose of that formation, the Skyhammer Annihilation Force, you Drop all 4 (6) units down at once, together, if the Devs shot at a unit, then a Assault marine unit can charge with no overwatch and re-rolls, the Dev's were giving the assault marines an opening to charge. It was really cool and fluffy.
Note: i picked this formation on purpose, b.c it was OP (one of the 6-7 that were), you could take 2 of them if you wanted to.

A lot of old formations just had "Link fire" you had to have 3+ of a model (like 3 Fire Prismis, 3 Warp Hunters, 3-9 Carnifexs, 3 Immolators) and instead of shooting them all seperately, you could shoot them all as 1 unit at 1 unit to gain essentially 5x the fire power (Immolators and Fex's could shoot a 18" flamer that was basically S10).


Formations themselves are not bad, the problem is, some were extremely good and others had 0 purpose.

Example: DE formation (not Coven) was a HUGE list of bad units and you gain +1 only for Nightfight, but Nightfighting was only a 50% chance each game, so it was pointless, then the Coven one had a unit of 5 Talos that gave you 1VP for every melee non-vehicle unit they Killed, well thats a HUGE difference in balance.

Then there was the Warp Hunter Formation that was outlawed in all tournaments and no one wanted to play against it, it was 3 Warp Hunters that DS and shot together for an massive Blast D-weapon. you could remove 4-5 units that turn as the template was 7" template... so every unit it touched took something 6D6+6 hits/wounds (if i remember the D chart correctly)



Players are remembering 7th unbalance formations and hoping GW wont do that again.

From what I can see from the Siegebreaker Cohort, the new Specialist Detachments don't seem nearly as restrictive as how you describe Formations. I don't see any unit prescriptions, just choose a detachment and spend a command point; seems a lot more reserved. Then again, I suppose it's too early too say they won't screw it up with some more wacky options in future.

Its not the same of 7th, there still is a list, but its not as restricted, now its "You need captain(s), Centurion(s) Dreadnought(s), Vindicator(s)"

So you still must take at least one of those. I'm 100% sure they want them to be a detachment with some wiggle room, b.c 8th is all about your lists your way.
Older editions were very restrictive, even more so than in 7th. We used to only have 2-3 HQ's 2-6 Troops, 0-3 everything else, thats it nothing else lol.

https://whc-cdn.games-workshop.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/11/PreOrderPreview-Dec02-p178-179-Content.jpg

 Amishprn86 wrote:
Its not the same of 7th, there still is a list, but its not as restricted, now its "You need captain(s), Centurion(s) Dreadnought(s), Vindicator(s)"

So you still must take at least one of those. I'm 100% sure they want them to be a detachment with some wiggle room, b.c 8th is all about your lists your way.
Older editions were very restrictive, even more so than in 7th. We used to only have 2-3 HQ's 2-6 Troops, 0-3 everything else, thats it nothing else lol.

https://whc-cdn.games-workshop.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/11/PreOrderPreview-Dec02-p178-179-Content.jpg

Do you?

I was under the impression that you didn't; and you could bring a battalion with none of those units and spend a CP to give it siegebreaker cohort, but it'd just be a waste of CP because none of the units you do have would gain the siegebreaker cohort property and you'd have no valid target for the strategems.

The way i read it it is optional, but they gain a keyword and you cant mix keywords in a detachment. Or am i incorrect, and these keywords dont act like that?

If im incorrect then that changes everything about how 8th formations could operate.

 Amishprn86 wrote:
The way i read it it is optional, but they gain a keyword and you cant mix keywords in a detachment. Or am i incorrect, and these keywords dont act like that?

If im incorrect then that changes everything about how 8th formations could operate.

Well, I don't think it's a faction keyword, just a type keyword.

 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:

Do you?

I was under the impression that you didn't; and you could bring a battalion with none of those units and spend a CP to give it siegebreaker cohort, but it'd just be a waste of CP because none of the units you do have would gain the siegebreaker cohort property and you'd have no valid target for the strategems.

That's how I read it too, but I don't think that necessarily makes Amishprn86 wrong. I think what he meant was that it would be so utterly fruitless to do something like that, that you "effectively" must take some Captains, Centurions, Dreadnoughts or Vindicators.

 Amishprn86 wrote:
We used to only have 2-3 HQ's 2-6 Troops, 0-3 everything else, thats it nothing else lol.

For some games, that actually doesn't sound half bad. I love to see troop heavy armies on the table. I personally find elite, small detachment/big robot armies to be incredibly boring. Can't wait to finish my Dark Angels Brigade project.

 Ginjitzu wrote:

 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:

Do you?

I was under the impression that you didn't; and you could bring a battalion with none of those units and spend a CP to give it siegebreaker cohort, but it'd just be a waste of CP because none of the units you do have would gain the siegebreaker cohort property and you'd have no valid target for the strategems.

That's how I read it too, but I don't think that necessarily makes Amishprn86 wrong. I think what he meant was that it would be so utterly fruitless to do something like that, that you "effectively" must take some Captains, Centurions, Dreadnoughts or Vindicators.

 Amishprn86 wrote:
We used to only have 2-3 HQ's 2-6 Troops, 0-3 everything else, thats it nothing else lol.

For some games, that actually doesn't sound half bad. I love to see troop heavy armies on the table. I personally find elite, small detachment/big robot armies to be incredibly boring. Can't wait to finish my Dark Angels Brigade project.

Yeah it was like that for many years, some HQ's made certain units troops, like Samuel made Bikers troops. SO it was really fun, i really miss it honestly lol, i do like the detachments, i just think they went to far.

Can anyone make out what the formations do?

 ulfhednir86 wrote:
Can anyone make out what the formations do?

Yeah.

The basics are:
Spend a CP, and a specific set of units in a detachment gain a keyword. For the siege one, it's 1CP and Centurions, Vindicators, Captains, and Dreadnoughts in this detachment gain the SIEGEBREAKER COHORT keyword.

Then, units with the SIEGEBREAKER COHORT keyword are eligible to receive a unique warlord trait [If the warlord remains stationary, nearby IMPERIAL FISTS INFANTRY gain morale immunity and the benefit of cover], unique relic [re-roll wound rolls of 1 in shooting for friendly SIEGEBREAKER COHORT units], and be targeted with some unique stratagems.