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IT’S A FAAAAAAAAKE!

For some reason, that’s my favorite Star Trek quotation.

 Manchu wrote:
IT’S A FAAAAAAAAKE!

For some reason, that’s my favorite Star Trek quotation.

My favorite line also comes from DS9:

 Manchu wrote:
IT’S A FAAAAAAAAKE!

For some reason, that’s my favorite Star Trek quotation.

I like how some YouTuber edited that quote with Sisko saying "IT'S REAL!!!" from the episode where he's in the illusion of being a 1950s sci-fi author.

Nevermind, I'll just post the clip:

My favourite episode was the already discussed Far Beyond the Stars where Sisko is a Sci Fi author. I loved Quark in that episode, must have been nice for him (and Worf) to be able to act without all that make-up.

I really enjoyed the Baseball episode too.

Overall DS9 was a very mixed bag for me though.

 ZergSmasher wrote:

*sni[p*

As cool an idea as that video is... wow 3+ minutes? Talk about overstaying your welcome, and that's quite the landmark for a good idea XD

What I loved about Quark is how well he made a character who was going through huge social change and yet resisted it, whilst at the same time not being a "nasty" character.

In way way too many productions and books we see those who approve of social changes (that modern society approves of) being on the side of good, with most of those on the opposing side being shown as variations of evil, bad, bigoted or otherwise undesirable unless they change.

Yet with Quark we don't get that. He's not evil nor overwhelmingly nasty. He's just a normal person who grew up a certain way coming to terms with a lot of his established world being changed. Plus it wasn't a single episode but a growing change and series of repeat challenges - the whole social change for his people was a background storyline that was far more fleshed out than many often are.



I also really liked what Morn had to say in DS9!

 Overread wrote:
What I loved about Quark is how well he made a character who was going through huge social change and yet resisted it, whilst at the same time not being a "nasty" character.

In way way too many productions and books we see those who approve of social changes (that modern society approves of) being on the side of good, with most of those on the opposing side being shown as variations of evil, bad, bigoted or otherwise undesirable unless they change.

Yet with Quark we don't get that. He's not evil nor overwhelmingly nasty. He's just a normal person who grew up a certain way coming to terms with a lot of his established world being changed. Plus it wasn't a single episode but a growing change and series of repeat challenges - the whole social change for his people was a background storyline that was far more fleshed out than many often are.

For me, I think it's that Quark shows how you can be a greedy business man and still have the humanity to not be a complete prick about it, which most certainly isn't how most stories handle the archetype. You're either a bleeding heart who doesn't care for money, or the meanest corporate CEO around.

One of the interesting things about Quark though is that for all his whining and praise for Ferengi tradition, we learn slowly over the course of the series he was never that traditional. He complains about how he's infected by Federation morals, but he was making decisions on conscience over profit before the Federation even came into the picture. It's even lamp shaded in Brunt's "the reason you suck" speech. He sold medicine to Bajorans during the occupation, at "slightly above" cost! Any proper Ferengi would have milked them for all they were worth.

unpopular choice here but.... Sisko is the best captain

It's very hard for me to decide whether I like DS9 or TNG more, but I'm pretty happy with enjoying them both equally for their different strengths. I honestly didn't want to like DS9; I had some notion that it was a b-team spinoff that needed to borrow O'Brian and Worf in order to increase its street cred, and I felt that it wasn't "real" Trek if it didn't follow an episodic format based on rootless exploration.

I was definitely wrong. In terms of writing and character development it is arguably the strongest series in the franchise. Its serial style allows it to focus on plot and theme instead of being a 45-minute foray into one, surface level sci-fi or socio-political idea with a subspace-related solution to everyone's problems at the end. It's not at all like other Trek shows, yet there's so much for a Trekkie to love with deeper dives into several alien cultures than possible in an episodic format. The way they handled the Ferengi, Klingons and Cardassians was great.

Absolutely great show, I will watch it again gladly.

Loved DS9 and had a massive crush on Terri Farrell as a teenager( omg has it really been that long? ). Avery Brooks was hands down the best captain too - he punched Q in the face!

Quark was the heart of it, and although I hated the Ferengi in TNG, he was hilarious.

I think Dax was the most interesting character as the trills are a bit like the "Timelords of Star Trek", y'know being able to change hosts an'all. And she went on quests with Klingons! How cool is that?

Come to think of it, I do get tired of the "sjw" thing surrounding todays heroines - where was that crowd back in the day with Ripley, Dax and co? Not a dicky-bird about Sigourney Weaver running around with a pulse rifle/flamethrower combo. That said, DW is trying way too hard to be "diverse" and "pc" when Star Trek was already doing it years ago, and much better. For all its preachyness, not even all the years of "new-who" compares to the one DS9 episode "Rejoined". That was done really well.

But yes, DS9 is awesome.

I think one other difference is that in most of the other Trek series the captain steals the show. They are central to pretty much every single story; barring a handful where they are not.

Meanwhile in DS9 you've got so many strong characters, each with their own background and focus, that many times Sisko actually takes a very background stage, esp as the series matures. That I think lets a lot of characters establish themselves very well and stronger than in many other ST series, and indeed than many other series that have a strong central lead character. Many other series might throw in a token episode for a character to have on their own, DS9 isn't afraid to throw an entire sub-plot in that might span multiple episodes and reappear in the future.


I think its also a reason why Quark actually starts to steal the show in many ways; because he's the character almost all of them will interact with even when tackling their own issues and problems. He's almost more central and key to the smooth running of things than Sisko is - at least from a social point of view. It's why its rather fitting that, in the end, he got the last line of the whole series

 Luciferian wrote:
It's very hard for me to decide whether I like DS9 or TNG more, but I'm pretty happy with enjoying them both equally for their different strengths. I honestly didn't want to like DS9; I had some notion that it was a b-team spinoff that needed to borrow O'Brian and Worf in order to increase its street cred, and I felt that it wasn't "real" Trek if it didn't follow an episodic format based on rootless exploration.

I was definitely wrong. In terms of writing and character development it is arguably the strongest series in the franchise. Its serial style allows it to focus on plot and theme instead of being a 45-minute foray into one, surface level sci-fi or socio-political idea with a subspace-related solution to everyone's problems at the end. It's not at all like other Trek shows, yet there's so much for a Trekkie to love with deeper dives into several alien cultures than possible in an episodic format. The way they handled the Ferengi, Klingons and Cardassians was great.

Absolutely great show, I will watch it again gladly.

For me that's easy, I see them as an extension of eachother, and so to me, they're the same. Like a really, really long book.

I can see that. The events of TNG do kind of dovetail naturally into DS9, and of course you have several TNG characters showing up for recurring roles. They certainly compliment each other more than any other two series in the franchise.

I loved that show. Its always been dear to my heart as one of the best star treks. That and the Orville.

 Luciferian wrote:
I can see that. The events of TNG do kind of dovetail naturally into DS9, and of course you have several TNG characters showing up for recurring roles. They certainly compliment each other more than any other two series in the franchise.

Yep! It feels as though DS9 flows out from TNG, and finds its own footing in the later seasons. Just like with MASH (when Potter and Winchester show up at the midpoint), when Worf shows up half way through the show gets a lot better, becomes more sure of itself and establishes a great identity. However, there are some phenomenal episodes in the first few seasons, that shouldn't be ignored.

It was really nice seeing O'Brian also turn up and go from a casual character in TNG (mostly teleporter operator) into a leading character in DS9. He's also a neat character because whilst you've got many of the others in quite unique and important or key roles he's just the engineer.

He's not genetically enhanced; a unique member of his species within starfleet; a unique species in the quadrant; a notable freedom fighter; a messiah; a spy; a leader; etc.... He's just an engineer and he retains that position through the series pretty much (Quark is sort of the same but with the stories unfolding on his home world he kinds of jumps up a few notches at least with his direct family connections)

 Overread wrote:
It was really nice seeing O'Brian also turn up and go from a casual character in TNG (mostly teleporter operator) into a leading character in DS9. He's also a neat character because whilst you've got many of the others in quite unique and important or key roles he's just the engineer.

He's not genetically enhanced; a unique member of his species within starfleet; a unique species in the quadrant; a notable freedom fighter; a messiah; a spy; a leader; etc.... He's just an engineer and he retains that position through the series pretty much (Quark is sort of the same but with the stories unfolding on his home world he kinds of jumps up a few notches at least with his direct family connections)

I agree. Colm Meaney is a fantastic actor.

Both Miles and Quark are hugely important to the show, especially Quark who goes through a lot of character growth in the later seasons.

One of my favorite episodes involving Miles is "Empok Nor" The dynamic between he and Garak, the debate and constant harassment about being the "Hero of Setlic III" it's all fantastic!
"

Everyone grows through the course of the series. It is wonderful. All the characters viewpoints change over the course of the series. All the relationships feel natural and earned.

I'm still saddened by the fact that I haven't seen a show out there handle 'alien/foreign' cultures or represent minorities (or the 'other') as well as DS9.

I do prefer Babylon 5 to DS9 for it's overall story arc and I think it evoked greater emotional peaks as well, but DS9's lead characters were probably the best I've seen in any TV show of the last 30 years. Seriously, is there a more positive depiction of the father-son dynamic out there than Benjamin and Jake? Not just that, but the show handled so many relevant contemporary issues extremely well and with a level of nuance rarely seen in popular media. I don't think the development of grudging respect/mutual admiration or more between two characters of disparate cultures happened repeatedly on DS9 by accident.

Benjamin Sisko is never 'close friends' with Quark or Garek, but he develops a mutual respect for both of them and becomes something of a mentor to Nog
Nog and Jake Sisko become best friends for life (honestly I think their relationship is the single most underrated aspect of the show because it examines them on so many levels and does so with a degree of subtlety. It begins with the cultural clash, leads to friendship, develops another cultural clash after Nog joins Starfleet and reaches a head due to his PTSD which Jake can't relate to and evolves from there)
Quark and Garek develop a mutual respect for each other
Garek's arguably best friend (or at least closest companion) on the station ends up being Dr. Bashir
Kira Nerys and Benjamin Sisko go from throwing daggers at one another to being close friends and comrades despite cultural and religious differences

And the list goes on from there. If you watch television for character interactions than DS9 is unequivocally the best Star Trek series. Hell, I think it's the best period, but I can understand why someone would appreciate TOS (especially if you like exploring the unknown) or TNG more.

TLDR: Probably the best Scifi/Fantasy television series ever

I think one key thing is that DS9 wasn't afraid to change their own characters. A lot of TV series keep characters very fixed in their ways. Take a look at something like NCIS - you can pretty much pick up any episode that isn't in the first or last few of a series and you pretty much know the formula and can settle in and watch it without major problems. It's more of a jump if the cast changes, but the first major cast set to the second major (which lasted a very long time) are basically identical.

There are subtle shifts in relationships, but by and large Gibs in series 1 is Gibs in series 10 - same for Ducky, Tony etc....

It's a deliberate design that works for casual viewing and for not losing your audience.



DS9 on the other hand was far more dynamic. On the one hand their character roster and setup meant that some weeks they'd focus on only a portion of their characters and leave out the rest. There are stories where a lead character like Sisko only appears as a backup character. These give an instant shift in perspective and focus. Then you've got changing relationships and developments within the character set; which because its large are able to shift around - two characters can shift from each others throats to friends to back to each others throats.

I think that lets you have a more mature approach to development of relationships and characters because you're not pressing the re-set button at the end of every episode. You're not keeping them in fixed points of time.

You also get natty little asides, such as this classic scene.




Just a chat at the bar. But man does it shine a light on the cultures of three species.

My fave Star Trek series by a large margin, re-watching it again since last September after a ten ish year break.. up to the end of season 4 so far. but I still love it now as much as I did the first few times.

Nice to also see my kids getting into it even if they don't watch every episode, they have got the names of the characters down, and have their favourites. Hell, even my youngest loves the intro even if he tends not to pay attention for the rest of it, but he has learned Quark (cawk is his three year old version) and points at the TV if he sees him on screen. I should really film him doing it at some point.

Indeed, I really enjoyed DS9. Not initially, as I liked monster of the week shows for their novelty.

But a couple years ago I rewatched the series and loved it for all the reasons outlined above. I just wanted to share in the enthusiasm.

The amount of depth and development that went into not only a vast cast of recurring characters not in the opening titles but the cast of recurring antagonists, the willingness to present multiple viewpoints rather than Star Trek's usual Roddenberrian "hippie Federation superior to all the aliens" sledgehammer, the willingness to deal seriously with topics like war, religion, and terrorism without whitewashing them to make them more palatable...There are many reasons DS9 is one of the greatest things ever broadcast.

The writers got very good at the Bathos dramatic/comedic juxtaposition later on (there were bits that fell flat later), one of my favourite episodes is Treachery, Faith, and the Great River, where the comedic setup of trapping Odo in a confined space where he can be a straight man to a sillier character is used to tell a really dark story about the nature of the Dominion in the A-plot, while the dramatic setup of having O'Brien trying to solve a wartime logistical shortage is used for a comedic plot about Nog navigating an endless parade of black-market deals to help, and neither feels at all out of place.

(Also honorable mention to Quark and Nog unexpectedly poppinig out of the maintenance tube in Sisko's office in The Magnificent Ferengi for being the funniest thing in Star Trek.)

A long time ago I sat down and watched every known ST series (in the following order: TNG, DS9, VOY, ENT, TOS, TAS with the movies in the logical places). Whilst I'd never do that entire slog again, I'd happily give TNG & DS9 a whirl again. They complement each other quite well.

one of my favourite quotes:




Don't need a Picard Spin Off, we need an "Advantures of Garak" show

DS9 is a great show but it also contains the seeds of everything that is wrong with Trek these days.

 kodos wrote:
one of my favourite quotes:

This scene is why Garak is just so great XD

 Manchu wrote:
DS9 is a great show but it also contains the seeds of everything that is wrong with Trek these days.

Extreme time travel and alternate dimension travel as major plot arcs that last way beyond a single episode and might even define the entire series not just one season? Thus letting creators totally reinvent and alter things however they wish?

More like, darkening the tone and shifting from episodic to arc-driven narrative.