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 Vankraken wrote:
They could of made the lieutenant kit like the oldmarine captain that allows you to actually pose him the way you want with a variety of gear options using 1 sprue.

You hush! GW might read this forum and get ideas!

-

Would be nice, if they did that. They could even add an option to make him in to a GK.

Ice_can wrote:

Surely it takes the same amount of time to design the model and cut injection moulds regardless of the model, so while it may not have taken away 8 release slots (if that's even something GW manages, instead of production slots). That's still 8 models that could have been avoided and allowed 5 or so failcast model's to be replaced.

This is predicated upon the idea that they allocate slots based upon some kind of parity.

The releases have been tied to other factors.
Wake the Dead? Vigilus Defiant came out shortly after and it's tied to a bit in the book about the Spiritseer leading a strike on Calgar's council. The LT and Spiritseer are the only new releases in an otherwise repacked box.
Tooth and Claw? Space Wolves codex came out and had a Primaris Battle Leader(the Lieutenant) with a weapon option nobody else had(the Bolt Carbine), Kill Team was out, Vigilus was coming and the Aberrants in the box were in response to Deathwatch Overkill having gone away for good. Same deal for the Battle Leader and Abominant as the Wake the Dead box.
Dark Angels and Blood Angels LTs? Their codices came out, along with a very small number of "<Insert Name Here> Primaris" boxed sets that were the standard ones and an upgrade frame for a splash release.

Three of them are generic-ish and tied to promotional bits, which basically have their own schtick going on regardless, and two of them are tied to the starter set and locked onto frames that can't be sold otherwise.

Asking "Why can't they just release X, Y, or Z instead!" is ignoring that these items are part of either extremely small releases(The BA+DA saw two new items in the form of the LTs and the Primaris Upgrade frames and repacked items in the form of the boxes with sprues in them) or aren't actually available outside of boxed sets/promotions yet.

Hell the last LT in that picture which was posted? This guy?

He's exclusive to independent events and hasn't even became available yet. He first becomes available at Adepticon in March.


So yeah, while a two-pack set of Lieutenants that can be built anyway we want would be super...they don't seem to have figured out yet exactly what/how they want Lieutenants to work. We're about to see what looks like a new one as part of the forthcoming "Shadowspear" box with a different loadout from the looks of things, and I guarantee you it'll be more of the "UGH! More lieutenants!" crap.

What bugs me most about this that the Lieutenants still have utterly gak gear options. If they had actually used these releases to add new options, I'd have no complaints even if there had been fifteen Primaris Lieutenants. Instead we're still stuck with those same utterly lacklustre loadouts. There are now five different models for Primaris Lieutenant with power sword and bolt pistol...

 Crimson wrote:
What bugs me most about this that the Lieutenants still have utterly gak gear options. If they had actually used these releases to add new options, I'd have no complaints even if there had been fifteen Primaris Lieutenants. Instead we're still stuck with those same utterly lacklustre loadouts. There are now five different models for Primaris Lieutenant with power sword and bolt pistol...

DA got the Plasma Pistol and Wolves got the Bolt Carbine from what I recall.

But yeah. For the most part, they're rather uninspiring. I'm a fan of the Stalker Bolt Rifle equipped LT but that's because I generally like Stalker Bolt Rifles for Raven Guard Primaris. Feels right.

Karol wrote:
Would be nice, if they did that. They could even add an option to make him in to a GK.

Erm... did you miss the memo about GK not getting Primaris?

 Vankraken wrote:

 Stux wrote:

 Vankraken wrote:

 Ishagu wrote:
There's a lot of Primaris Lts but in truth most of them are only found in certain boxsets or are limited editions.

It was hyperbole for people to complain as much as they did.

A lot of people get irritated at GW laying it on thick with the Space Marine stuff (9 lieutenants is a bit excessive for something that is basically an easy kitbash with the older kits) where as other major factions have HQ units removed because they don't have a model. Its reminiscent of the "Old GW's" tone deaf attitude of ignoring their customer base.

Or, are they listening the their customer base who actually primarily want to buy new flashy marine kits?

After all, I'd say places like this forum or say 40k subreddits would not be very representative of the average GW customer.

Its still 9 different mono pose sculpts for the same unit entry. They could of made the lieutenant kit like the oldmarine captain that allows you to actually pose him the way you want with a variety of gear options using 1 sprue.

Then they couldn't use them as part of the selling point for a new boxed set!

It's an easy way to make something exclusive that encourages people to buy the new shiny thing.

It's very difficult to tell a Primaris Lieutenant from any other Primaris infantryman given that the loadouts are usually something you can give Sergeants and there's no quick shorthand cue sculpted onto the model like the Iron Halo for a Captain, the skull helmet for a Chaplain, the psychic hood for a Librarian, the servo-arm for a Techmarine, or the narthecium arm/fluid-reservoir backpack for an Apothecary. We don't need nine different Primaris-Lieutenants when you can just grab a random infantryman out of an Intercessor kit and paint a red-and-white stripe on his helmet.

So one of the negatives of the primaris line as it currently sits is that a lot of the character models are locked behind the tabletop version of "pay walls."

Even more bizarre is that other models recently introduced this way, are now available as single miniatures. To date only the Blood Angels and Dark Angels Lt's are available.

I'm hopeful that this will change this year, but it still baffles me.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Stux wrote:

 Vankraken wrote:

 Stux wrote:

 Vankraken wrote:

 Ishagu wrote:
There's a lot of Primaris Lts but in truth most of them are only found in certain boxsets or are limited editions.

It was hyperbole for people to complain as much as they did.

A lot of people get irritated at GW laying it on thick with the Space Marine stuff (9 lieutenants is a bit excessive for something that is basically an easy kitbash with the older kits) where as other major factions have HQ units removed because they don't have a model. Its reminiscent of the "Old GW's" tone deaf attitude of ignoring their customer base.

Or, are they listening the their customer base who actually primarily want to buy new flashy marine kits?

After all, I'd say places like this forum or say 40k subreddits would not be very representative of the average GW customer.

Its still 9 different mono pose sculpts for the same unit entry. They could of made the lieutenant kit like the oldmarine captain that allows you to actually pose him the way you want with a variety of gear options using 1 sprue.

Then they couldn't use them as part of the selling point for a new boxed set!

It's an easy way to make something exclusive that encourages people to buy the new shiny thing.

In theory, yes.

But then why are Armigers, The new Cryptek, and the New Spirit seer all avaliable outside of their initial box run now? It doesn't make sense to post a simple unit like this and lock it behind a paywall.

IMHO what we need for sprimaris is a "Primaris commander" box ala the old space marine commander box, one that can make a captain or Lt

Remember though, the old days of plug-n-play modular kits are more or less gone (outside of the occasional head or shoulder pad). Even the ones which have weapon options are heavily modeled to avoid a third party option from being a simple purchase.

GW doesn't want marine bodies sitting on third party legs, or third party arms fitting on GW torsos, etc.

Some third party companies are already doing alternate Primaris (and they're quite good), but GW is in full "non-modular" mode as of late. Even the bump in scale of Primaris more or less invalidated future use of 95% of the existing third party marine bits.

It's never going to kill the third party market (even less so as 3D printing becomes larger), but GW is trying to keep them at arms length and not make it so easy for them.

 Ishagu wrote:
There's a lot of Primaris Lts but in truth most of them are only found in certain boxsets or are limited editions.

It was hyperbole for people to complain as much as they did.

Even as a marine player, I can completely understand peoples frustrations with all the marine releases. You have model ranges that are either being squated or have languished for decades and could use a refresh. Having 8 or 9 kits that are the same model with slight war gear changes or a slightly different pose is a waste.

 Togusa wrote:
In theory, yes.

But then why are Armigers, The new Cryptek, and the New Spirit seer all avaliable outside of their initial box run now? It doesn't make sense to post a simple unit like this and lock it behind a paywall.

Probably because the big boxed sets are now OOP, and they seem to be used almost as a "preview" release.

Given the Abberants have now been released, I suspect we'll see the Space Puppy Lt. come out when there is a quiet release week - he's held in a back pocket for now, basically. The same is true for the two characters from Wake the Dead (not sure why you think the Spiritseer from it is available on its own - the only Spiritseer currently available is in "Finely cast resin", though aside from an arm they do look very similar).

 Elbows wrote:
GW doesn't want marine bodies sitting on third party legs, or third party arms fitting on GW torsos, etc.

Then GW should get on with releasing their own.
Drown-out the 3rd parties with 1st party versions. The SM captain box was great, and got used for parts from sergeants and up.
GW should be allowing more models (and they have been in recent years), but they still insist on ignoring whole swathes of model ranges (Aspect warriors and such), while duplicating these.

While they're at it, let us use the LT models in a squad if LTs If they are forcing so many on us, give us something to do with them all.

 Elbows wrote:
Remember though, the old days of plug-n-play modular kits are more or less gone (outside of the occasional head or shoulder pad). Even the ones which have weapon options are heavily modeled to avoid a third party option from being a simple purchase.

GW doesn't want marine bodies sitting on third party legs, or third party arms fitting on GW torsos, etc.

Some third party companies are already doing alternate Primaris (and they're quite good), but GW is in full "non-modular" mode as of late. Even the bump in scale of Primaris more or less invalidated future use of 95% of the existing third party marine bits.

It's never going to kill the third party market (even less so as 3D printing becomes larger), but GW is trying to keep them at arms length and not make it so easy for them.

Too bad saws, knifes and scallpells exist.
And frankly excactly by making the models difficult to modify, they expand the market for 3rd parties, because i can only have x ammount of the same posture /equipped Plague marines f.e..

 Dysartes wrote:

Given the Abberants have now been released, I suspect we'll see the Space Puppy Lt. come out when there is a quiet release week - he's held in a back pocket for now, basically. The same is true for the two characters from Wake the Dead (not sure why you think the Spiritseer from it is available on its own - the only Spiritseer currently available is in "Finely cast resin", though aside from an arm they do look very similar).

It's about time they released the Spiritseer - I'd like another one to kitbash with some Farseers and I don't want to pay inflated Ebay prices.

The Primaris Lt thing it annoying, but it's not quite as bad as "9 releases for one entry while other armies get nothing" given that a couple of them were limited edition/anniversary/event models. For that sort of model it would be irritating if it was, say, a lovely new limited edition plastic version of something that's only available in Finecast otherwise. I guess they're also easy to churn out as well - just take the standard Mk X CAD files, repose them a bit, whack a power sword on and cut a sprue.

I've said before but we REALLY need a primaris commander box ala the old space marine commander box.

 Crimson wrote:
What bugs me most about this that the Lieutenants still have utterly gak gear options. If they had actually used these releases to add new options, I'd have no complaints even if there had been fifteen Primaris Lieutenants. Instead we're still stuck with those same utterly lacklustre loadouts. There are now five different models for Primaris Lieutenant with power sword and bolt pistol...

I just wish GW would make Primaris HQ kits similar to the marine force commander kit. Unless the meta shifts back to the good old days where having a power sword was some hot gak, having just a power sword is a pretty gakky weapon choice. Somebody needs to tell Jes this isn't 2nd edition anymore.

Ginjitzu wrote:I see. Kind of disappointing that it isn't as simple to get them as I'd thought. I was imagining this abundance of Lieutenants to choose from only to find out that they're not really so readily available. It would be nice if they actually released all of those models as individual purchases, though now I fear they won't because of all of the ridicule.

Primaris Lieutenant Start Collecting box?

BrianDavion wrote:
I've said before but we REALLY need a primaris commander box ala the old space marine commander box.

We have one. It's the Primaris Captain box.

People overhype the Commander box. It was basically the first of the "monopose" kits we have now, just with a few more arm options.

 Wyzilla wrote:

 Crimson wrote:
What bugs me most about this that the Lieutenants still have utterly gak gear options. If they had actually used these releases to add new options, I'd have no complaints even if there had been fifteen Primaris Lieutenants. Instead we're still stuck with those same utterly lacklustre loadouts. There are now five different models for Primaris Lieutenant with power sword and bolt pistol...

I just wish GW would make Primaris HQ kits similar to the marine force commander kit. Unless the meta shifts back to the good old days where having a power sword was some hot gak, having just a power sword is a pretty gakky weapon choice. Somebody needs to tell Jes this isn't 2nd edition anymore.

Hey, at least that build has a sword! The other option is to give this WS2+ A4 BS3+ character some sort of a boltgun, and no melee weapon at all! It is utterly pathetic; even an Intercessor sergeant can have a bolter and a melee, weapon and a better melee weapon at that!

 Kanluwen wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:
I've said before but we REALLY need a primaris commander box ala the old space marine commander box.

We have one. It's the Primaris Captain box.

People overhype the Commander box. It was basically the first of the "monopose" kits we have now, just with a few more arm options.

excerpt it had options. lots of options. which is what people liked about it. when people say "mono pose" the issue is more that you get minimal choices. the commander box had dozes of weapon options. etc. meanwhile a lotta the modern ones are "choose if you want a sniper rifle or an auto rifle" the commander box was also modular eneugh you could use bits from elsewhere to really customize it.

I mean you could buy a SM commander box, an assault marine box and have eneugh bits to craft several distinct looking captains and leuitenants

BrianDavion wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:
I've said before but we REALLY need a primaris commander box ala the old space marine commander box.

We have one. It's the Primaris Captain box.

People overhype the Commander box. It was basically the first of the "monopose" kits we have now, just with a few more arm options.

excerpt it had options. lots of options. which is what people liked about it. when people say "mono pose" the issue is more that you get minimal choices. the commander box had dozes of weapon options. etc. meanwhile a lotta the modern ones are "choose if you want a sniper rifle or an auto rifle" the commander box was also modular eneugh you could use bits from elsewhere to really customize it.
I mean you could buy a SM commander box, an assault marine box and have eneugh bits to craft several distinct looking captains and leuitenants

Again: Overhyped.

I can do the same thing with a Primaris Captain and the Intercessors Combat Squad box. People seem to forget that there aren't exactly a slew of options for the Primaris, so why should they have "dozens of weapon options"?

That Commander you're talking about as though it was the most customizable kit in existence? It had ranged weapons tied to the right arm(but two right arms!) and melee weapons sculpted onto the left arms.

I mean, you really want to try to say that these are the pinnacle of customization?


I can do the same level of customizing if not more with a Primaris Captain and the Intercessors Combat Squad. When it first came out? Yeah, the Commander was a groundbreaking kit. But ultimately, it's the start of what we've seen now with plastic stuff.

they're MUCH more customizable then the primaris captain yes.

BrianDavion wrote:
they're MUCH more customizable then the primaris captain yes.

They really aren't though. The example you used is that with another boxed set, you can "craft several distinct looking captains and leuitenants".

The Commander box? It builds those models. End of story. It can't do twin Lightning Claws, it can't do some dynamically jumping hammer wielding Commander, etc. It makes a guy who's got one arm wielding a whappin' weapon and another arm going pewpew.

 Kanluwen wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:
they're MUCH more customizable then the primaris captain yes.

They really aren't though. The example you used is that with another boxed set, you can "craft several distinct looking captains and leuitenants".
.

Well, yes. That is (was) the main strength of the SM line. You could mix and match literally every component, be they from CSM, HH or loyalist kits. THAT is what made the kit so good, to dismiss this feature of it is just ignorance. Same goes for just about every other SM kit.

 Grimtuff wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:
they're MUCH more customizable then the primaris captain yes.

They really aren't though. The example you used is that with another boxed set, you can "craft several distinct looking captains and leuitenants".
.

Well, yes. That is (was) the main strength of the SM line. You could mix and match literally every component, be they from CSM, HH or loyalist kits. THAT is what made the kit so good, to dismiss this feature of it is just ignorance. Same goes for just about every other SM kit.

right, primaris marines meanwhile are MUCH less modular. I can't use legs from a hellblaster kit on my intercesssors without doing some creative modelling.

BrianDavion wrote:

 Grimtuff wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:
they're MUCH more customizable then the primaris captain yes.

They really aren't though. The example you used is that with another boxed set, you can "craft several distinct looking captains and leuitenants".
.

Well, yes. That is (was) the main strength of the SM line. You could mix and match literally every component, be they from CSM, HH or loyalist kits. THAT is what made the kit so good, to dismiss this feature of it is just ignorance. Same goes for just about every other SM kit.

right, primaris marines meanwhile are MUCH less modular. I can't use legs from a hellblaster kit on my intercesssors without doing some creative modelling.

The rest is still pretty modular, though. I've got Deathwatch models with old-Marine arms/pauldrons/backpacks stuck just straight onto Primaris infantry.