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Mandragola wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

Alex_85 wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

Alex_85 wrote:
Smoke launchers, the abbility of denie overwatch, the combo with the new librarían discipline and the autocannons. Depending of the points they will be a pretty good option.

Ussualy I use one 3 man Inceptors unit just for have something to depp strike, but I think I will change to Suppresors. But as I sayd it depends on their cost.

They don't combo with the new discipline as they are not Phobos.

Not Phobos and not Gravis? This is disgusting

Correct. They are more like airborne Mk X Tacticus(same suits as Intercessors and Hellblasters) Marines. On the bright side, it means they only take up one slot in a Repulsor.

They actually take up no space in a repulsor, as it can't carry jump pack models.

I think a primaris brigade might be viable now at 2k. There ought to now be choices in every slot for around 100points or under. Eliminators in fast attack look like they'll cost around half what a 5 man hellblaster squad does, for example.

Not saying it'd be a good list, but it might not be awful. I'm not sure I'd field any inceptors though. Suppressors seem more flexible and cheaper. Inceptors either give me dakka that I don't really need (my troops bring it) or suicide plasma at vast expense. Neither seems a great option. Cheaper guys with guns that work against everything look way better.

I like both too. Suppressors are providing a much needed anti tank long range firepower (and the deep striking means you can plant them on top of a hard to reach tower of some sort) and the Inceptors very much provide that click and delete ability lacking in most space marine armies.

I knows its been pointed out that inceptors are much more of a threat but I really think a savvy player can counter that with having another equally nasty unit moving around the field. My personal favorite is a repulsor or two loaded up with either Veteran Intercessors or Aggressors with captain/LT support that can really really bring the pain while also remaining a nasty fire magnet that refuses to get tied down because of its fly rule.

As all this new stuff comes out I can really see some interesting ideas and tactics being formulated, it really is a good time to be a space marine player!

Mandragola wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

Alex_85 wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

Alex_85 wrote:
Smoke launchers, the abbility of denie overwatch, the combo with the new librarían discipline and the autocannons. Depending of the points they will be a pretty good option.

Ussualy I use one 3 man Inceptors unit just for have something to depp strike, but I think I will change to Suppresors. But as I sayd it depends on their cost.

They don't combo with the new discipline as they are not Phobos.

Not Phobos and not Gravis? This is disgusting

Correct. They are more like airborne Mk X Tacticus(same suits as Intercessors and Hellblasters) Marines. On the bright side, it means they only take up one slot in a Repulsor.

They actually take up no space in a repulsor, as it can't carry jump pack models.

I think a primaris brigade might be viable now at 2k. There ought to now be choices in every slot for around 100points or under. Eliminators in fast attack look like they'll cost around half what a 5 man hellblaster squad does, for example.

Not saying it'd be a good list, but it might not be awful. I'm not sure I'd field any inceptors though. Suppressors seem more flexible and cheaper. Inceptors either give me dakka that I don't really need (my troops bring it) or suicide plasma at vast expense. Neither seems a great option. Cheaper guys with guns that work against everything look way better.

Well, then, scrap that. But just so you are aware, Eliminators are HS, not FA. Suppressors are the FA. But I agree, the Suppressors might be making a Brigade possible. I know I am there on everything but FA. I am thinking I might drop a squad of Hellblasters and have about 450 pts to work with instead of running two Battalions. I could easily fit two squads of Suppressors, a squad of Eliminators, a Phobos Librarian, and a Tarantula in there for that. I am considering dropping three of my Intercessor Squads and replacing them with 3x 6-man Infiltrator Squads (Sergeant, 4x basic, 1x Helix Adept). Hopefully that is a wash in terms of points.

To be fair, while interesting, Suppressors feel like GW is trying to make Primaris more distinct from regular Marines and thus uses ideas that wouldn't make sense just so that they be different. Difference for difference's sake. But just because it's different, doesn't mean it's good.

 Trade_Prince wrote:
To be fair, while interesting, Suppressors feel like GW is trying to make Primaris more distinct from regular Marines and thus uses ideas that wouldn't make sense just so that they be different. Difference for difference's sake. But just because it's different, doesn't mean it's good.

They need to make them different, but do it well.

How cool would these guys have been if they were agressors with these autocannons? T5, shoot twice, long range. Would have made for an awesome competitor to Helblasters and a genuinely fearsome prospect.

 ewar wrote:

 Trade_Prince wrote:
To be fair, while interesting, Suppressors feel like GW is trying to make Primaris more distinct from regular Marines and thus uses ideas that wouldn't make sense just so that they be different. Difference for difference's sake. But just because it's different, doesn't mean it's good.

They need to make them different, but do it well.

How cool would these guys have been if they were agressors with these autocannons? T5, shoot twice, long range. Would have made for an awesome competitor to Helblasters and a genuinely fearsome prospect.

They should be an option for intercessor. When I realized they where not Phobos and also not gravis I was disgusted. At leat they could be added to Intercessors as an heavy weapon option. I see them running pretty well in my Deathwatch army, but depending on points.

I think they have a niche in a team tournament, where you can, more or less, fish for match-ups. They could be good when you have a list with BA or SW assault elements and want to cancel the overwatch of 40 cultists, for example.

In solo play? Not so much.

Rumoured points cost for these guys is 33. I think that's highly competitive. It's the same as a marine with a missile launcher, and suppressors are obviously far better than that. Might not be a fair comparison as the missile launcher guy is total trash of course!

The Accelerator Autocannon is also priced separately, so it seems like they might have another weapon choices incoming. Though I would be shocked if the other two new units don't have weapon choices as well.

A twin auto venerable dread is 146, right? Vs 4 suppressors for 132? Seems about right and definitely in the range Id consider for any infantry only list where I didn’t want to pay a few more points for the vehicle chassis and bs 2.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Assuming I continue woth my idea of moving to all infantry, I’m really liking the Supressors more and more to get some decent range firepower. Which rather annoys me since I dislike the look :p

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
The Accelerator Autocannon is also priced separately, so it seems like they might have another weapon choices incoming. Though I would be shocked if the other two new units don't have weapon choices as well.

But when though, is the problem. Inceptors only had Assault Bolters when they dropped in DI/Index at the start of 8E. They got their full kit when the Codex came out, which gave them the option for Plasma.

The way I see it, there are 3 possibilities (in order of likelihood):

A) In the same method as above, a new Space Marine codex will drop in a few months along with the separate kits for everything in Shadowspear. This is when Suppressors will get another gun option
B) The Suppressors already have multiple gun options, a la Intercessors/Hellblasters, that are just variations of the Autocannon we've seen. But those other options are listed in the Vanguard Codex and the datasheet we've seen so far is the simplified version in the Shadowspear campaign book. The only evidence to support this theory is the Chaos Marines having a datasheet in set, which is unnecessary. So maybe the campaign books has "ready-to-play" datasheets to use exactly what comes in the set, but the mini-dexes have more full datasheets with other options
C) No codex or other options are on the way anytime soon. When separate kits eventually drop, there will be no updated options.

I really don't think it's B or C, but that only leaves A. So does that confirm a new SM codex inbound?

-

 Galef wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
The Accelerator Autocannon is also priced separately, so it seems like they might have another weapon choices incoming. Though I would be shocked if the other two new units don't have weapon choices as well.

But when though, is the problem. Inceptors only had Assault Bolters when they dropped in DI/Index at the start of 8E. They got their full kit when the Codex came out, which gave them the option for Plasma.

The way I see it, there are 3 possibilities (in order of likelihood):

A) In the same method as above, a new Space Marine codex will drop in a few months along with the separate kits for everything in Shadowspear. This is when Suppressors will get another gun option
B) The Suppressors already have multiple gun options, a la Intercessors/Hellblasters, that are just variations of the Autocannon we've seen. But those other options are listed in the Vanguard Codex and the datasheet we've seen so far is the simplified version in the Shadowspear campaign book. The only evidence to support this theory is the Chaos Marines having a datasheet in set, which is unnecessary. So maybe the campaign books has "ready-to-play" datasheets to use exactly what comes in the set, but the mini-dexes have more full datasheets with other options
C) No codex or other options are on the way anytime soon. When separate kits eventually drop, there will be no updated options.

I really don't think it's B or C, but that only leaves A. So does that confirm a new SM codex inbound?

-

D: Vigilus 2. We don't know what's in it but it seems like a reasonable bet that it'll include rules for the new stuff. How do you get around having to bring out new CSM and SM codexes? With a book that covers both, like the old ones that brought out rules for Tau, space wolves etc.

Not saying it'll definitely happen, and both factions could definitely use full new codexes, but that's a potential stop gap option.

I think My space wolves will benefit greatly from Suppressors. Using Keen senses strat will allow them to move and shoot with no penalty. Will be good to reposition them with no penalty. Could be useful for shooting flyers and eldar vehicles as well @S7 -2 2dmg. Doesn't the new librarian have the ability to buff to hit rolls ? That could help as well.

TheunlikelyGamer wrote:
I think My space wolves will benefit greatly from Suppressors. Using Keen senses strat will allow them to move and shoot with no penalty. Will be good to reposition them with no penalty. Could be useful for shooting flyers and eldar vehicles as well @S7 -2 2dmg. Doesn't the new librarian have the ability to buff to hit rolls ? That could help as well.

The new librarian doesn't have that ability. He can give a unit in (phobos?) armour rerolls to hit and ignore cover, but Suppressors aren't in the right armour (whatever it is).

There's a new warlord trait that gives a unit +1 to hit. The Librarian can probably take it, but we don't yet know the mechanism for doing so.

oops