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Dudeface wrote:


Nope, my vigilus book has no amended profile for cultists, the mere mortals rule is listed under renegade chapters and black legion. Ergo if I take world eaters the cultists retain their traits.

....you can't take World Eaters "from within" Vigilus. And even when you do you'll have to go to the other book for WE trait and other info where it is plainly listed.

TL;DR don't kid yourself.

 Stux wrote:

Dudeface wrote:

 Daedalus81 wrote:
I think the most important thing to note is that the chaos codex doesn't have any renegade chapters.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Dudeface wrote:

DecadentOne wrote:
Does the updated codex entry for cultists prohibit all Legion traits? I only own the original codex and Vigilus Ablaze, which only seems to affect Black Legion and Renegades. As far as I can see, my Word Bearer cultists still get Profane Zeal.

I'd imagine it'll be faqd in a couple of weeks, but for now enjoy legion cultists as long as you're not black legion or renegades since that's what your valid literature states is the case.

There is no loop hole. Cultists do not get traits in any book.

Nope, my vigilus book has no amended profile for cultists, the mere mortals rule is listed under renegade chapters and black legion. Ergo if I take world eaters the cultists retain their traits.

Have fun with that briefly until it's 'fixed' in the upcoming FAQ

I wouldn't abuse it personally, just using it to point out how poorly they've done the codex update for people with v1.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Daedalus81 wrote:

Dudeface wrote:


Nope, my vigilus book has no amended profile for cultists, the mere mortals rule is listed under renegade chapters and black legion. Ergo if I take world eaters the cultists retain their traits.

....you can't take World Eaters "from within" Vigilus. And even when you do you'll have to go to the other book for WE trait and other info where it is plainly listed.

TL;DR don't kid yourself.

My codex doesn't have mere mortals on any page, so following your advice they get legion traits for cultists. You seem to be forgetting that many people do not have codex v2 as they were told they don't need it.

Dudeface wrote:


My codex doesn't have mere mortals on any page, so following your advice they get legion traits for cultists. You seem to be forgetting that many people do not have codex v2 as they were told they don't need it.

Enjoy your two weeks.

This is the game book that has Oblits at 65 points. It's a complete and total mess of a codex. No reason to make a fuss over it, just go by RAI instead of RAW for now, or if you want to win a tournament, bring your 65 point Oblits and the Cultists with traits in the next two weeks

 Daedalus81 wrote:

Dudeface wrote:


My codex doesn't have mere mortals on any page, so following your advice they get legion traits for cultists. You seem to be forgetting that many people do not have codex v2 as they were told they don't need it.

Enjoy your two weeks.

I probably won't get a game in before the FAQ hits and I'd play with rules as intended anyway. The point of the thread is to highlight that they've made a mess of the update, as some people won't know that the cultists rules are different in codex v2.

Dudeface wrote:


I probably won't get a game in before the FAQ hits and I'd play with rules as intended anyway. The point of the thread is to highlight that they've made a mess of the update, as some people won't know that the cultists rules are different in codex v2.

People who own digital copies get an update. I'm not really sure how they can edit old physical books aside from an FAQ.

Would it be preferable if they entirely invalidated the old book?

 Daedalus81 wrote:

Dudeface wrote:


I probably won't get a game in before the FAQ hits and I'd play with rules as intended anyway. The point of the thread is to highlight that they've made a mess of the update, as some people won't know that the cultists rules are different in codex v2.

People who own digital copies get an update. I'm not really sure how they can edit old physical books aside from an FAQ.

Would it be preferable if they entirely invalidated the old book?

Nope, they could just print ALL of the new units, points and rules changes in the book they tell you to buy. Instead they excluded the shadowspear units in lieu of a free pdf with no points. Use the opportunity to write the new cultists amendment into vigilus alongside the other new units they gave rules for with points. Boom everyone is happy and playing with the same rules and the expansion still has specialist detachments and renegades as a sales pull.

Dudeface wrote:

 Daedalus81 wrote:

Dudeface wrote:


I probably won't get a game in before the FAQ hits and I'd play with rules as intended anyway. The point of the thread is to highlight that they've made a mess of the update, as some people won't know that the cultists rules are different in codex v2.

People who own digital copies get an update. I'm not really sure how they can edit old physical books aside from an FAQ.

Would it be preferable if they entirely invalidated the old book?

Nope, they could just print ALL of the new units, points and rules changes in the book they tell you to buy. Instead they excluded the shadowspear units in lieu of a free pdf with no points. Use the opportunity to write the new cultists amendment into vigilus alongside the other new units they gave rules for with points. Boom everyone is happy and playing with the same rules and the expansion still has specialist detachments and renegades as a sales pull.

That means either printing the entirety of the CSM codex into Vigilus. Or forcing people to buy some parts of Vigilus in a CSM codex without all the other parts of Vigilus.

 Daedalus81 wrote:

Dudeface wrote:

 Daedalus81 wrote:

Dudeface wrote:


I probably won't get a game in before the FAQ hits and I'd play with rules as intended anyway. The point of the thread is to highlight that they've made a mess of the update, as some people won't know that the cultists rules are different in codex v2.

People who own digital copies get an update. I'm not really sure how they can edit old physical books aside from an FAQ.

Would it be preferable if they entirely invalidated the old book?

Nope, they could just print ALL of the new units, points and rules changes in the book they tell you to buy. Instead they excluded the shadowspear units in lieu of a free pdf with no points. Use the opportunity to write the new cultists amendment into vigilus alongside the other new units they gave rules for with points. Boom everyone is happy and playing with the same rules and the expansion still has specialist detachments and renegades as a sales pull.

That means either printing the entirety of the CSM codex into Vigilus. Or forcing people to buy some parts of Vigilus in a CSM codex without all the other parts of Vigilus.

They would only need to put new/amended units in vigilus, which is far from all of them. Weirdly though that is exactly what they advertised and even moreso the codex v2 has parts of vigilus in (some new units), without having all of it (expanded renegades and black legion).

Either way this something they can fix with an FAQ it just means chaos v1 players need a codex, chapter approved, vigilus, pdf print out and FAQ to build an army list physically and could have been reduced with better editing or inclusion of some stuff into the respective books.

The new card deck includes Prayers and Master of Possession spells.
It does not include Vigilus Ablaze strats; Black Legion, Renegades & Detachments.
Tide of Traitors is still the original, pre-nerf version.

 xeen wrote:
So maybe I am a moron, but I went to buy the "new" chaos codex based on the GW flow chart that made me think all the new Chaos stuff would be in it. It is NOT. The renegade traits, special detachments etc, are not in the "new" CSM Codex. Again, maybe I was wrong from my reading of the GW flow chart, but I wanted to put it out there so everyone is clear.

Removed all-caps title, we need to budget those! - BrookM

Ugh, thanks, but too late :(

The problem is their chart was a flowchart with two paths: own the previous codex or not. It showed if you owned the previous codex you should get Vigilus Ablaze, if you did not you should buy the new 2.0 codex. There was no arrow going from that side back to Vigilus to indicate you ALSO needed that book if you wanted the Renegade traits.

It was not implied at all in the chart. Flowcharts have specific guidelines for what they mean.

Wait.. So are the new datasheets in the Codex V2 or not? Its hard to believe they wouldnt be...

123ply wrote:
Wait.. So are the new datasheets in the Codex V2 or not? Its hard to believe they wouldnt be...

Yes but things like the renegade traits and new black Legion relics and things are not.

Wayniac wrote:

123ply wrote:
Wait.. So are the new datasheets in the Codex V2 or not? Its hard to believe they wouldnt be...

Yes but things like the renegade traits and new black Legion relics and things are not.

Ah I see. Tbh i figured the detachments wouldnt be in the codex. It would have been nice to see renegade rules too but them Vigilus wouldnt sell as much as thats one of the big selling points of the book.
-Expanded Black Legion rules
-Renegade Chapter rules
-Specialist detachments.

Adding just one of those to the new codex would probably be a no-no to GW cause they obviously want people to get both.

I really think it's fine that the new renegade traits and black legion stuff ISNT in 2.0. Vigilus Ablaze is DLC for chaos basically, those are all just add-ons. Yes, it would have been great to have it ALL in the codex, but they gotta sell the Vigilus books somehow, and missions alone for sure isn't the carrot, or even the stick.

Ive been trying to decide how I want to update my codex. I was leaning towards getting the version 2 book but now it seems Vigilus is the way to go. Thanks for the confusion gw...

The graphic plain sucks tbh unless I am missing something:

Why not include the V2 Codex AND the picture of vigilus 2 as you need and GW want to sell you both?

Gangland wrote:
Ive been trying to decide how I want to update my codex. I was leaning towards getting the version 2 book but now it seems Vigilus is the way to go. Thanks for the confusion gw...

Don't forget the shadowspear stuff is included in codex v2 but not vigilus, you're left using the pdf with no points.

Dudeface wrote:

Gangland wrote:
Ive been trying to decide how I want to update my codex. I was leaning towards getting the version 2 book but now it seems Vigilus is the way to go. Thanks for the confusion gw...

Don't forget the shadowspear stuff is included in codex v2 but not vigilus, you're left using the pdf with no points.

Yeah actually about pts in codex 2.0, they aren't even correct as allready pointed out with the Oblits

Right, the issue is their flowchart is incorrect. People expect a flowchart to follow a specific format, and theirs is 100% misleading.

I am a programmer, in pseudocode, the key part of the chart is this:

if own_previous_codex: buy vigilus2 else buy csm2

That is a boolean condition based on their flowchart; there are one of two paths, with nothing to indicate there is an overlap between the two which is where the issues come in as people looking at the chart would think you ONLY need the codex if you don't already have it, while if you have the codex already you ONLY need Vigilus Ablaze. It should have had an arrow in the "want more" section on the right side pointing back up to Vigilus Ablaze to show that you needed both if you wanted to get everything.

It did not and I have already seen a lot of people who bought the Codex only, as they didn't already have it, only to find that they also need Vigilus for certain rules that were not reprinted. Now I even understand the specialist detachments staying in Vigilus. But the section that has updated Black Legion relics and Renegade Traits should have absolutely been in the 2.0 codex as those are core updates, not extras.

Dudeface wrote:

Gangland wrote:
Ive been trying to decide how I want to update my codex. I was leaning towards getting the version 2 book but now it seems Vigilus is the way to go. Thanks for the confusion gw...

Don't forget the shadowspear stuff is included in codex v2 but not vigilus, you're left using the pdf with no points.

I have Shadowspear so I’m set there. I guess I’m just going to have to learn to love bringing a library with me to play my Chaos army...

At least it seems as though the new datacards aren’t mandatory as I just bought the original versions like a moth ago and have used them all of TWO times...