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 fasterthanlight wrote:
Perhaps its just me, as i've not really seen this discussed anywhere else, but i find the size/scale of Guilliman and Abbadon kind of disturbing.... I just think thy are too big compared to the rest of the range.

To me they look like another scale from another game and i think they just look silly even next to a primaris...

Now, i get that they should be a bit bigger as one is a primarch and the other warped by chaos.... but i was thinking like a head bigger... max... It should be believable i think.

Just to be clear... this isn't a knock on the sculpts themselves... even though i don't like Guilliman (he looks like he's wearing 1000 sons armour) i do think Abbadon i one of their best sculpts yet... its truly fantastic... I just think they look out of scale...

Am i alone in this or....

Looking forward to hearing some thoughts... i'm truly interested in what others think.

FTL

So my thought is that I like it for being abstract. These models are larger than life characters, and on the table, they're Huge! That to me, is a +. But I can see how someone might not like it, after all, I'm salty about raptors and old terminator lords now not quite matching the new stuff.

I do find it odd that absolutely no one has made any comment on the video I posted in response to this topic. I think it's fairly cut and dry. Granted, there are some educated guesses made, and at least one has a wide range of possibilities, but I feel it should pulled a lot more weight in this conversation.

SG

 ServiceGames wrote:
I do find it odd that absolutely no one has made any comment on the video I posted in response to this topic. I think it's fairly cut and dry. Granted, there are some educated guesses made, and at least one has a wide range of possibilities, but I feel it should pulled a lot more weight in this conversation.

It was useless nonsense.

1) They are supposed to be centrepiece models i.e. heroic, much bigger than the rank and file, etc.

2) Abby is hinted at being the clone son of Horus. Horus was a pretty big chap by all accounts. Factor in that Abby is wearing TDA and it strikes me as a very plausible size comparison between him and Bobby G

 Crimson wrote:
It was useless nonsense.

Please explain why you feel that way.

Thanks

SG

If I have a problem with the size of G-man's model it's that true-line-of-site is a stupid rule that combines with the character targeting restrictions and the sniper rules into an unholy mess of counter-intuitive horse [censored].

 ServiceGames wrote:

 Crimson wrote:
It was useless nonsense.

Please explain why you feel that way.

Thanks

The calculations are nonsense. They calculate the size of Horus based on one picture, then extrapolate based on that sizes of many other Primarchs. They make calculations based on pictures where one figure is closer to the viewer than others, and distance between them is not known.

I think the size of primarchs is ridiculous and blame the black library with its “make everything huge!” Ethos.

I figured they made the leaders bigger to fit more detail on the model and make them stand out more as a center piece. I’m fine with that as I want my leader models to have more detail.

Does anyone have a side by side of 30k Bobby G and 40k? The internet hasn't turned up much and I want to see if there is a large size difference.

I heard that some of the new guard are as tall as the new primaris

If that is true...that is dumb.

We play a 28 mm game. If they want a bigger scale then make the tanks and such bigger to. As it is the vehicles are too small for the RT scale models let alone GW scale creep.

I was comparing my old metal WraithGuard vs my plastic.
The gun is actually larger on the metal, but between the larger base, the larger shoulder pads and hips and beefier...almost sillier Japanese art style buffier calves and feet...they look bigger, but the Heads and arms and most other parts are the same fractionally.

 filbert wrote:
It's typical GW scale creep; you either accept it for what it is or you don't. It's been going on pretty much since GW started producing minis - compare RT boxed Marines with the newer (now defunct) plastic marines and then compare those with Primaris. Compare old metal Terminators with the reboxed plastic ones. Compare old Blood Bowl models with newly released ones. And so on and so forth.

It's a marketing tool - by making things ever so slightly out of whack with existing range, they can 'subtly' convince you to upgrade to the latest models, even if you already own the previous ones. And to be fair, it works - when they released Terminators in plastic, I replaced my old metal ones entirely because they looked stupid when placed alongside the new ones.

Yep.

The new Keeper of Secrets is pretty much the same physical size as Zarakynel, the Forge World KoS. New KoS is stood straight while Zarakynel is squatting somewhat, but still.

Irritating.

MinscS2 wrote:Because Chaos Marines are not Primaris Marines (thankfully) and *should* be shorter?

It would make absolutely no sense for CSM to be as big as Primaris Marines.

Sgt_Smudge wrote:Because CSM aren't Primaris? Why would they be the same size? If anything, CSM are out of scale because they're not the same size as Mark VII Marines.

I get the lore justification; I just don't like it. I'm of the, "they should have just changed the scale, not the lore," camp.

Crimson wrote:

 Ginjitzu wrote:

Which I'm totally fine with if it's consistent, but why the heck did they leave the new Chaos Marines a head shorter than the Primaris? Now they just look like angry midgets.

Whilst I would have preferred the CSM to be the same size as the Primaris, they are not head shorter, they're only tiny bit shorter.

Oh! I was going by a picture someone posted here on Dakka, but if the difference is only slight, then I've no issue.

They are indeed overly large and out of scale with regular infantry models, but i think this is a intentional decision made by GW to make characters larger so they look more prominent.

You can see they have been doing this for a couple of years at least with other character models. For example the Ahriman mini who is noticeably bigger than the other thousand sons minis. Trajan Valoris as well, he is noticeably bigger than regular custodians.

 Grimtuff wrote:

GW seem to have this fetish too with SMs, as I already said; I always see a Primarch to be about the size of a Custodes mini. Not the gangly things we have right now. It's like the deplorable "truescale" SMs, which almost always looked like someone had put Peter Crouch on a torture rack taken to a logical extreme.

As far as I'm concerned, Space Marines oustide their armour are a head taller than most humans, but significantly bulkier and barrel-chested. I don't think Primarchs or Custodes are (or should be, that is) any different. I don't care what the writers, artists and sculptors do, they're wrong.

Some Primarchs should be bigger - Magnus was always described as a "giant", and IIRC Mortarion has always been tall but thin. otherwise, they should be the same size as their marines.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

robbienw wrote:
They are indeed overly large and out of scale with regular infantry models, but i think this is a intentional decision made by GW to make characters larger so they look more prominent.

You can see they have been doing this for a couple of years at least with other character models. For example the Ahriman mini who is noticeably bigger than the other thousand sons minis. Trajan Valoris as well, he is noticeably bigger than regular custodians.

Likewise with the special edition "Blanche-esque" Sister of Battle model, and the new Black Library female Commissar - both significantly larger than their unnamed compatriots.

I love the big boss models. It draws attention to them, makes it obvious they're the main dude and looks cool. This is coming from a hardcore Ork player of course, who's bosses are supposed to be massive so take it for what it is.

There's an argument to say Abby is a little too big, but rule of cool wins for me.

I like the thought of having nice Models to represent special Characters (lorewise). Why not? 40k isn't really in scale anyways...
IMHO it's completely fine to have a huge Girlyman as a centerpiece, or to have a unique human lore-character, that outstands it's fellows half a head. They need the proper representation

Yeah, G man is a tad over large. It always makes me blink when I think, well he's only 9 wounds, so you can't target him. The dude is a monstrosity of a man, how the hell do my moronic army men not realize he's not just like every other dude around him ? It really breaks my mind each and every time.

" Sir ? Which one is the Primarch ? "

" I can't tell soldier ! They are all about the same size but for that one huge man there ! I just don't think you'll be able to pick him out until we kill all in the way first, he's only a mere mountain of a man, how can your fire be so precise as to pick him out ? "

I tend to feel the same way about demon princes, like you can't pick him out behind the nurgling wall ? You kidding me ? How many A**holes we got on this ship anyways ? ( I'm sure someone gets the reference )

I get the in game reason for it but it just makes me chuckle with some large models that benefit from it. Like Logan on his chariot ? He's a sore thumb, but a man about that size standing up but with a few less wounds, nope, he just blends in, he's damn stealthy that one.

HoundsofDemos wrote:
Does anyone have a side by side of 30k Bobby G and 40k? The internet hasn't turned up much and I want to see if there is a large size difference.

Stole a side-by-side from bolter and chainsword. Looks like 40k Guilliman is a lil bigger, and has more exaggerated proportions

I don't really mind my chaos baddies being huge, swollen with warp energy and blessed by the dark gods (though I do think it would be cool to keep Abbadon as 'just a man', and play that up as a dynamic), but I'd really prefer Imperium characters to stay roughly man-sized (don't mind my primarchs being kinda beefed up, bc primarchs, but not ridiculously huge) because it keeps with the desperate imperium on the backfoot motif. I think making infantry models larger is a bad way to go, regardless of faction, because your rank-and-file grunts should look rank-and-file like grunts. Sudden size increases disrupt the look of an army imo.
For characters, I think it's slightly less important, if only from a modeling/tabletop perspective, because they kinda ought to stand out as centerpieces, but I feel like for a lot of factions this could be better achieved by giving them scenic bases etc., rather than making them increasingly huge physically.

I can't see any reason for loyalist primarchs to have grown any bigger, and think it would actually be pretty cool if they had deliberate nods to the HH models. I actually quite like the HH Guilliman model (for an ultramarine, that is ), but I feel like the 40k version doesn't even facially resemble him, let alone any of his gear, beyond they both have a sword in one hand and a big power fist lookin thing on the other.

Again, could be wrong here, but isn't Abbadon supposed to be wearing Horus' armor? So shouldn't it be Cataphractii, not Indomitus pattern? That said, do quite like him, no real complaints, might pick him up one day...

Well, the sword isn't his, it's Big E's That's why there is a difference of equipment in that respect.

 Crimson wrote:
The calculations are nonsense. They calculate the size of Horus based on one picture, then extrapolate based on that sizes of many other Primarchs. They make calculations based on pictures where one figure is closer to the viewer than others, and distance between them is not known.

I'm going to venture a guess that you didn't listen to all of the assumptions made at the beginning of the video as well as the explanations of what they use for a frame of reference for figures that are standing further away from others. Again, they know they aren't going to be 100% correct. They say that at the beginning of the video. But, they use facts from the lore to make the calculations. It's as accurate as you're ever going to get without GW coming out and telling us exactly how tall they are.

SG

 fasterthanlight wrote:
Perhaps its just me, as i've not really seen this discussed anywhere else, but i find the size/scale of Guilliman and Abbadon kind of disturbing.... I just think thy are too big compared to the rest of the range.

To me they look like another scale from another game and i think they just look silly even next to a primaris...

Now, i get that they should be a bit bigger as one is a primarch and the other warped by chaos.... but i was thinking like a head bigger... max... It should be believable i think.

Just to be clear... this isn't a knock on the sculpts themselves... even though i don't like Guilliman (he looks like he's wearing 1000 sons armour) i do think Abbadon i one of their best sculpts yet... its truly fantastic... I just think they look out of scale...

Am i alone in this or....

Looking forward to hearing some thoughts... i'm truly interested in what others think.

FTL

Their size is great. Primarchs are supposed to be massive, Abaddon is probably a clone so that's why he is so big. Plus in Talon of Horus Abaddon was the same size as the Horus clone. There has never been an official scale. Space marines are anything from 7 foot to 8 foot tall, the HH has them at about 10 feet so there is no real scale, no official scale by GW, I mean they have shown some pics with SM's being about 7 and a half feet but they've never made anything official.

I like both models and I think they are at about the right scale. Whereas in the past 7 foot marines were barely as tall as an Average human - I will take this scale over it anyways.

 Xenomancers wrote:
I like both models and I think they are at about the right scale. Whereas in the past 7 foot marines were barely as tall as an Average human - I will take this scale over it anyways.

Plus look at the size of the Daemon Primarchs, they are tiny compared to the lore, apart from Magnus as he could be any size. Angron is the size of a warhound for example. GW are looking at the whole easthetic, loyal Primarchs a head taller than a marine would look stupid in comparison to their Daemon Primarch counterparts.

 ServiceGames wrote:
I'm going to venture a guess that you didn't listen to all of the assumptions made at the beginning of the video as well as the explanations of what they use for a frame of reference for figures that are standing further away from others. Again, they know they aren't going to be 100% correct. They say that at the beginning of the video. But, they use facts from the lore to make the calculations. It's as accurate as you're ever going to get without GW coming out and telling us exactly how tall they are.

I did listen it all. Their methods are so flawed that it is barely better than guessing.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Delvarus Centurion wrote:

Their size is great. Primarchs are supposed to be massive, Abaddon is probably a clone so that's why he is so big. Plus in Talon of Horus Abaddon was the same size as the Horus clone. There has never been an official scale. Space marines are anything from 7 foot to 8 foot tall, the HH has them at about 10 feet so there is no real scale, no official scale by GW, I mean they have shown some pics with SM's being about 7 and a half feet but they've never made anything official.

Abaddon's size is fine. But if he is same size than Horus, why is Guilliman so much bigger?

 Crimson wrote:

 ServiceGames wrote:
I'm going to venture a guess that you didn't listen to all of the assumptions made at the beginning of the video as well as the explanations of what they use for a frame of reference for figures that are standing further away from others. Again, they know they aren't going to be 100% correct. They say that at the beginning of the video. But, they use facts from the lore to make the calculations. It's as accurate as you're ever going to get without GW coming out and telling us exactly how tall they are.

I did listen it all. Their methods are so flawed that it is barely better than guessing.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Delvarus Centurion wrote:

Their size is great. Primarchs are supposed to be massive, Abaddon is probably a clone so that's why he is so big. Plus in Talon of Horus Abaddon was the same size as the Horus clone. There has never been an official scale. Space marines are anything from 7 foot to 8 foot tall, the HH has them at about 10 feet so there is no real scale, no official scale by GW, I mean they have shown some pics with SM's being about 7 and a half feet but they've never made anything official.

Abaddon's size is fine. But if he is same size than Horus, why is Guilliman so much bigger?

Like I said, the lore is the lore. You can't take anything for granted, but we can at least take from that that he is 'nearly' Primarch height. GW have made him a bit smaller, so we go with that now. Before GW make a decision all we have is the lore, but GW basically make the standard.

The primarchs were supposed to be pinnacle specimens of humanity, not giants and freaks. Demon ones can be massive, that’s great but 8 feet plus sized primarchs is just silly. Imagine the poor horse that the lion rode around caliban on! Or guiliman trying to squeeze into a cubical in ultramars toilets!

Jed Goodwin says marines are 7 foot in armour. That will do for me. He designed them, he speaks the truth. Anything else is an exaggeration. I don’t mind the models being bigger but all this rubbish about them being 10 feet tall and punching out a titan is just plain silly.

Andykp wrote:
The primarchs were supposed to be pinnacle specimens of humanity, not giants and freaks. Demon ones can be massive, that’s great but 8 feet plus sized primarchs is just silly. Imagine the poor horse that the lion rode around caliban on! Or guiliman trying to squeeze into a cubical in ultramars toilets!

Jed Goodwin says marines are 7 foot in armour. That will do for me. He designed them, he speaks the truth. Anything else is an exaggeration. I don’t mind the models being bigger but all this rubbish about them being 10 feet tall and punching out a titan is just plain silly.

8 foot plus sized Primarch is stupid... now that's stupid. Marines are 7, 8, 10foot tall, Primarchs are to space marines as space marines are to humans so you'd have to conservatively put a Primarch at at least 9 or 10 foot tall. I mean you have to be biased or ignoring the lore to think that. Who cares what Jes Goodwin says, that;s irrelevant. I mean this is the Imperial guard or eldar etc. if SM's become bigger my guys seem less awesome.

Andykp wrote:
The primarchs were supposed to be pinnacle specimens of humanity, not giants and freaks. Demon ones can be massive, that’s great but 8 feet plus sized primarchs is just silly. Imagine the poor horse that the lion rode around caliban on! Or guiliman trying to squeeze into a cubical in ultramars toilets!

Jed Goodwin says marines are 7 foot in armour. That will do for me. He designed them, he speaks the truth. Anything else is an exaggeration. I don’t mind the models being bigger but all this rubbish about them being 10 feet tall and punching out a titan is just plain silly.

*ahem*

Jes Goodwin.

 Togusa wrote:

Andykp wrote:
The primarchs were supposed to be pinnacle specimens of humanity, not giants and freaks. Demon ones can be massive, that’s great but 8 feet plus sized primarchs is just silly. Imagine the poor horse that the lion rode around caliban on! Or guiliman trying to squeeze into a cubical in ultramars toilets!

Jed Goodwin says marines are 7 foot in armour. That will do for me. He designed them, he speaks the truth. Anything else is an exaggeration. I don’t mind the models being bigger but all this rubbish about them being 10 feet tall and punching out a titan is just plain silly.

*ahem*

Jes Goodwin.

Autocorrect. Apologies.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Delvarus Centurion wrote:

Andykp wrote:
The primarchs were supposed to be pinnacle specimens of humanity, not giants and freaks. Demon ones can be massive, that’s great but 8 feet plus sized primarchs is just silly. Imagine the poor horse that the lion rode around caliban on! Or guiliman trying to squeeze into a cubical in ultramars toilets!

Jed Goodwin says marines are 7 foot in armour. That will do for me. He designed them, he speaks the truth. Anything else is an exaggeration. I don’t mind the models being bigger but all this rubbish about them being 10 feet tall and punching out a titan is just plain silly.

8 foot plus sized Primarch is stupid... now that's stupid. Marines are 7, 8, 10foot tall, Primarchs are to space marines as space marines are to humans so you'd have to conservatively put a Primarch at at least 9 or 10 foot tall. I mean you have to be biased or ignoring the lore to think that. Who cares what Jes Goodwin says, that;s irrelevant. I mean this is the Imperial guard or eldar etc. if SM's become bigger my guys seem less awesome.

Who cares what JES Goodwin says! He designed them. He says they are 7 foot, that’s how tall they are. Everyone who has come after and said otherwise is wrong. So explain to me how a ten foot tall man riding a horse isn’t stupid or silly! Not ignoring the “lore” just choosing to accept reliable sources and ignore exaggerated childish ones (Black library).