A.T. wrote:Tiberias wrote:But the Grey Knights always were their own thing with their own very specific purpose, so I believe they deserve their stand alone codex.
As a faction they are their own thing, but as a codex they were a small elite element of a larger force until late in 5e, and even that larger force was intended as an allied element.
Mad respect A.T, because you've been posting here and elsewhere forever, but I disagree.
Both the Witch Hunter and Daemon Hunter books were released in third. Each of these books included a handful of options for Inquisitors of the Hereticus and Malleus respectively, but the majority of both books were focused on their chambers militant (Sororitas and Greyknights, respectively). These armies were capable of operating with our without Inquisitors and with or without other allied Imperial factions.
We would have had a Xeno Hunter book, which would have followed the exact same pattern (ie. a stand alone chamber militant (Deathwatch) with options for allied inquisitors (Xenos) and other rules for allying with other Imperial factions) but some jerk at
GW decided they wanted everyone to buy the Space Marine codexes for a fourth time, so
GW hit the rest button before the range was complete.
Interestingly enough, the Jokaero retinue option ALWAYS worked better as retinue for radical Ordo Xenos than any of the other orders of the Inquisition.
Now where we do have common ground is this: given the nature of all Orders of the Inquisition, they would most likely show up as an allied detachment to larger imperial armies in battles where their chosen enemy was present in sufficient enough numbers to merit their appearance. But the current rules of
40k mean that you have to have pretty much a full army list in order to be able to make a detachment, which is why a part of me dies inside every time someone says the Inquisition shouldn't be stand alone armies.
To bring it back to
SoS, they need enough options to be able to build a detachment. I'd be satisfied (though not happy) with just an
HQ (preferably generic as opposed to named), because at least then they could show up as a Vanguard. If they ALSO made Prosecutors a troop choice, as someone suggested earlier, that would be even better as Battalions become available. This doesn't have to be hard; a Kill Team release could do the trick.
Other folks have talked about them appearing in an Imperial Agents book; like I said in an earlier post, the Apocalypse datasheet download includes an exact preview of what such a book would include- it has all the Rogue Traders in it too, which I thought was super cool.
As for the abilities of
SoS, I don't want them to to have extra powers against Daemons; this adversary is a highly psychic force (except for those Khorne types), so they already have a bit of an edge.
I'd like
40k rules for the Aquisitor- I love the model and I love that it synergizes with the Pariah abilities of other units. My dream detachment is Greyfax, a Cullexus, 5 vigilators and 5 witch seekers in an aquisitor. As the game stands, I can shove the same models into a Valkyrie, but you lose the aquisitor's pariah ability, and you need an opponent who will let you get away with it, as I think only Greyfax is technically allowed to ride in a valkyrie. (I only play campaign style, so people let me get away with it because it usually takes 2-3 games to build the story up enough for such an alliance to be possible- game 1: Master of the Fleet Arrives with an Airwing Detachment; game 2: Greyfax arrives with the
SoS and Cullexus; Game 3: Greyfax and co save the Master of the fleet from hostiles; game 4: master of the fleet gifts the detachment a valkyrie for their exclusive use for the remainder of the campaign).
The aquisitor build ensures that psychic armies are nerfed. It isn't just that Greyfax gets two deny the witch rolls, the stacking pariah abilities would ensure that your opponent never successfully manifested a power in the first place. If this detachment was allied to Sisters, the Pariah abilities ensure that even if the deny rolls are taken on a single die, they still have a decent chance to succeed. In the Valkyrie build, it isn't quite as effective, but it still packs a punch.
Not putting
SoS in a Talons of the Emperor dex with the Custodes was a lost opportunity, because we would have had rules for them in all the time that's been lost. But I'm not sure how fluffy the Talons concept was in the first place. It worked, don't get me wrong, but the original fluff for
SoS didn't talk about them in battle at all; it talked about them being the ones who went planet to planet in search of psykers and potentials for the Imperial blackships. Most of the psykers they found would be sacrificed to power the astronomicon/ golden throne, but some few would be passed on to the the Schola Psykana.
Finally, some have talked about how
SoS and
SoB are entirely different entities, and of course that is absolutely true. However, it is also true that both mandates of
SoS (ie psychic seekers/ recruiters and anti-psychic in battle) are HIGHLY complimentary to both
SoB and the Ordo Hereticus. This degree of complimentary skills does increase the odds that all three forces would at least occasionally work together, with any two of the three working together slightly more often than all three.
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