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@OP Sure I've felt a chill several times. 5th Ed character blues is a rite-of-passage practically. The subpar / expensive DE HQ's since 6th is always meh, I stopped playing DE in 6th played a small CWE army. 7th was Eldar Corsair's tell that army got hit with something harder then a nerf bat. Those are the big one's for me. Like Elbows I'm not feeling the Ynnari thing, somewhat similar feeling when Coven stuff was being pushed. I'm currently playing 7th Corsairs infrequently with close friends. Just kind of done with the 8th scene and want to play what I want.

 wuestenfux wrote:
Well, Chaos, Daemons, and Primaris cannot complain. Same holds for Orks.
Eldar (plastic warriors), Dark Eldar (HQs with jetbikes, surf boards), and Necrons have been left behind.
I guess sales figures play here an important role.

Orktober was a bloody joke, you cannot say otherwise.

Lack or perceived lack of releases could also be to do with GW releasing so many other games recently:
Shadespire, Warcry, Bloodbowl, AT, Killteam, Underworlds, Necromunda, Blackstone, not to mention their release schedules for AoS.

I agree with OP. Primaris Lieutenants are particularly under-represented.

Seriously though GW need to knock that gak on the head. I know they want to expand the Primaris line ASAP but a lot (edit: all of, now that I think of it) of Xenos races could use some love.

PenitentJake wrote:
I agree with OP. The Combat Arena 40k minigame that they just announced should have been set in Wych Cult arena, and half of the characters should have been DE HQ choices that were lost- Lady Malys, Duke Sliscus and Baron Sathonyx.

Instead, they released it with the same Blackstone characters, which we already know will be in the next Blackstone expansion. Because they are characters, nobody needs two copies of them.

It's the worst marketing decision GW has made in the current edition of the game (with the possible exception of Shadow War Armageddon). They only way they will get sales of Combat Arena is if people aren't patient enough to wait for the Escalation expansion; it'll be more expensive than Combat Arena, but it will also be a better product, because a) it includes new bad guys as well as new heroes, which Combat Arena doesn't and b) it is part of a game that has already received support and is likely to continue to receive it in the future.

You have this entirely the wrong way around. Those characters were made for a US-exclusive game which was announced in February, and the Blackstone expansion was announced afterwards as a way for them to find another use for those sculpts.

 Sim-Life wrote:
I agree with OP. Primaris Lieutenants are particularly under-represented.

Seriously though GW need to knock that gak on the head. I know they want to expand the Primaris line ASAP but a lot (edit: all of, now that I think of it) of Xenos races could use some love.

Xenos races have got some love. the problem is players say "give Xenos some love" to which GW responds "ok here's some Orks" but the players are still upset because what they really meant was "give MY Xenos race some love"

BrianDavion wrote:

 Sim-Life wrote:
I agree with OP. Primaris Lieutenants are particularly under-represented.

Seriously though GW need to knock that gak on the head. I know they want to expand the Primaris line ASAP but a lot (edit: all of, now that I think of it) of Xenos races could use some love.

Xenos races have got some love. the problem is players say "give Xenos some love" to which GW responds "ok here's some Orks" but the players are still upset because what they really meant was "give MY Xenos race some love"

Granted the love orkz got was, dubious.

Still the csm main sculpts needed to be replaced urgently.

And I wouldn't be opposed to more vehicular HQ's for Xenos and IoM / Chaos.
Biker HQ's f.e.
Or jetbike archons etc.
Beyond that i am actually quite content.

Martel732 wrote:
Gw cant but help themselves from releasing more worthless marine kits.

So far, GK Primaris Marines are missing.
Two wound GK troops would really help (for almost the same cost).

Not Online!!! wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

 Sim-Life wrote:
I agree with OP. Primaris Lieutenants are particularly under-represented.

Seriously though GW need to knock that gak on the head. I know they want to expand the Primaris line ASAP but a lot (edit: all of, now that I think of it) of Xenos races could use some love.

Xenos races have got some love. the problem is players say "give Xenos some love" to which GW responds "ok here's some Orks" but the players are still upset because what they really meant was "give MY Xenos race some love"

Granted the love orkz got was, dubious.

Still the csm main sculpts needed to be replaced urgently.

And I wouldn't be opposed to more vehicular HQ's for Xenos and IoM / Chaos.
Biker HQ's f.e.
Or jetbike archons etc.
Beyond that i am actually quite content.

I agree that CSMs NEEDED the attention they got. They're supposed to be the big bad, the all important focus enemy. but most of their models where old eneugh to drink. And they'd not aged well. CSMs suffer from a partiuclar problem, visually speaking, of being space marines. So beside the loyalist marines they looked pretty dated.

With CSMs out of the way I am of the opinion that CWE need to get a big update along the same lines. I suspect that they'll get one in 2020.

As someone who's Xenos race got half their line this year, I think folks are drastically under estimating how much came out earlier this year or unreasonably expected that to continue at the cost of the other games.

AOS has had a lot of the focus for the last couple months, after 40k had nearly exclusive focus for a number prior to that. If anything, I'm guessing that's a bit intentional on their part.

YeOldSaltPotato wrote:
As someone who's Xenos race got half their line this year, I think folks are drastically under estimating how much came out earlier this year or unreasonably expected that to continue at the cost of the other games.

AOS has had a lot of the focus for the last couple months, after 40k had nearly exclusive focus for a number prior to that. If anything, I'm guessing that's a bit intentional on their part.

There's a rumoured new Death Faction released this year (GW said all Grand Alliances were getting new Tomes and at that point Death had all their current armies with new Battletomes), plus Sisters of Battle that we know is confirmed. So that's two big army releases to come. There's also been rumour of new Aelves for AoS for a long long time, though nothing has appeared as yet.

Genestealer cults are a cop out - they're basically another imperial faction with some mutation components.



There are warlock models 30 years old
The Phoenix lords are 25 years old
The warp spiders are 25 years old
The Falcon is 21 years old
The vyper is 22 years old
Guardians are 20 years old
The storm guardian pack is 16 years old
The swooping Hawks are 20 years old
Shining spears are 16 years old

Dire avengers, dragons, Scorpions, reapers, banshees are 14 years old

https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Miniatures_(Eldar)


The dark Eldar range is newer than the Eldar range...

Hellebore wrote:
Genestealer cults are a cop out - they're basically another imperial faction with some mutation components.



There are warlock models 30 years old
The Phoenix lords are 25 years old
The warp spiders are 25 years old
The Falcon is 21 years old
The vyper is 22 years old
Guardians are 20 years old
The storm guardian pack is 16 years old
The swooping Hawks are 20 years old
Shining spears are 16 years old

Dire avengers, dragons, Scorpions, reapers, banshees are 14 years old

https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Miniatures_(Eldar)


The dark Eldar range is newer than the Eldar range...

Genestealer cults are way more than just another Imperial faction now. They gained a lot with their big second wave release at the start of the year and got a lot more individuality to their army that took them way beyond just borrowing stuff from the IG range.

I agree, and most do, that Eldar need an update and when it comes it will hopefully be a glorious update! Thing is AoS has armies with a lot more older models -heck skaven (who are very popular in general) still have a good chunk in metal.

Hellebore wrote:
Genestealer cults are a cop out - they're basically another imperial faction with some mutation components.



There are warlock models 30 years old
The Phoenix lords are 25 years old
The warp spiders are 25 years old
The Falcon is 21 years old
The vyper is 22 years old
Guardians are 20 years old
The storm guardian pack is 16 years old
The swooping Hawks are 20 years old
Shining spears are 16 years old

Dire avengers, dragons, Scorpions, reapers, banshees are 14 years old

https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Miniatures_(Eldar)


The dark Eldar range is newer than the Eldar range...

The Eldar range needs a refresh, the Dark Eldar range needs new stuff. CWE is way more fleshed out, DE have no Lord of War and are missing some of their centrepiece models from the lore. Vect is our Guilliman/Eldrad and we simply don't have him (although some of us have the model!). There are also other glaring issues with DE interactions with Rule of 3 and listbuilding due to not enough units and the way the Obsessions are split. CWE doesn't have these issues, although I would love to see refresh of CWE AND new DE stuff!

 Overread wrote:

Hellebore wrote:
Genestealer cults are a cop out - they're basically another imperial faction with some mutation components.



There are warlock models 30 years old
The Phoenix lords are 25 years old
The warp spiders are 25 years old
The Falcon is 21 years old
The vyper is 22 years old
Guardians are 20 years old
The storm guardian pack is 16 years old
The swooping Hawks are 20 years old
Shining spears are 16 years old

Dire avengers, dragons, Scorpions, reapers, banshees are 14 years old

https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Miniatures_(Eldar)


The dark Eldar range is newer than the Eldar range...

Genestealer cults are way more than just another Imperial faction now. They gained a lot with their big second wave release at the start of the year and got a lot more individuality to their army that took them way beyond just borrowing stuff from the IG range.

I agree, and most do, that Eldar need an update and when it comes it will hopefully be a glorious update! Thing is AoS has armies with a lot more older models -heck skaven (who are very popular in general) still have a good chunk in metal.

Yeah I know what you mean. Funny thing is that AOS actually gets a more balanced release across everyone - it's not all storm cast all the time.

It's not that they're imperial guard though, it's that they're all imperial models - they are yet more models covering imperial Citizens etc. They've just increased the range of model options for people to use in their imperial armies. Bikes, vehicles, troops. People are already kitbashing them.

There are now more ways to make one imperial guard squad from available imperial models than there are unique craftworld units for sale... And that's only a slight exaggeration.

There are almost as many units with the vehicle search word in the space marine army as there are infantry models in the Eldar army.


I'm kind of tired of GW treating xenos armies as 2nd class citizens who are expected to feel grateful when they get ONE model from their army list made available for the first time - let alone whole new units and models invented out of nothing.

Most of the current marine ranges are less than 10 years old - that's not just the model's AGE but its INVENTION as well.


Xenos armies are so model poor all they ask for is models for existing units - but I don't think it's too much to ask for NEW units. They don't have any trouble pulling "always existed" units out of Their imperial ass. Where's the 3 different kind of Eldar ranger, the different schools of each aspect that emphasize different parts of their fighting style, the whole new units that always existed, the other kinds of wraithlords and knights that are only a pen stroke away from existing...

Hellebore wrote:
Genestealer cults are a cop out - they're basically another imperial faction with some mutation components.

False.

Hellebore wrote:
There are warlock models 30 years old

Also false. I mean, the source you cited is claiming Warlocks are Spiritseers, which isn't a good start.

None of the Warlocks from Rogue Trader are currently available from Games Workshop. I think a couple from 2nd edition might be available, but nothing from RT.

As it stands, the oldest models I'm aware of being available on the GW site are either the Rune Priest in Terminator Armour, Ragnar Blackmane or Njal Stormcaller, as I think they crop up in the 1991 Catalogue. The Armour Through The Ages set features some sculpts that might be up there, but they were also OOP for a while.

I'm not disputing that the Eldar need some love, btw, just that specific points are inaccurate.

 Dysartes wrote:

Hellebore wrote:
Genestealer cults are a cop out - they're basically another imperial faction with some mutation components.

False.

I'm not going to give you that one. every model sans the patriarch, aberrant and abominant is accurately described as an imperial citizen, and is modelled as such. All their equipment, weaponry and clothing is imperial. All their vehicles are imperial. Just as chaos cultists are imperial models. There are some parts that are not usable in a practical sense like the hybrids, but the vehicles, bikes, neophytes and characters are all very usable as imperial models.

The fact is, they have been modelled as an imperial cult rebellion, not a tau, Ork or Eldar one. They are imperial.

Dysartes wrote:

Hellebore wrote:
There are warlock models 30 years old

Also false. I mean, the source you cited is claiming Warlocks are Spiritseers, which isn't a good start.

None of the Warlocks from Rogue Trader are currently available from Games Workshop. I think a couple from 2nd edition might be available, but nothing from RT.

As it stands, the oldest models I'm aware of being available on the GW site are either the Rune Priest in Terminator Armour, Ragnar Blackmane or Njal Stormcaller, as I think they crop up in the 1991 Catalogue. The Armour Through The Ages set features some sculpts that might be up there, but they were also OOP for a while.

I'm not disputing that the Eldar need some love, btw, just that specific points are inaccurate.

Although I never claimed the Eldar had the oldest models available, you are correct, I mixed warlock with witchblade 2 up with warlock with witchblade 3. Both 3 and warlock with singing spear are 2nd ed models available in the farseers and warlock box currently:
https://www.games-workshop.com/en-AU/Eldar-Farseer-and-Warlocks

Which makes them as old as the Phoenix lords and warp spiders (which is at least 26 years, as Their tabs all say 1993 on them - I just checked my old metal ones).


I also forgot the avatar in the list - it's also 26 years old. The FW one is much better, but it didn't replace the GW one...

Hellebore wrote:

I'm not going to give you that one. every model sans the patriarch, aberrant and abominant is accurately described as an imperial citizen, and is modelled as such. All their equipment, weaponry and clothing is imperial. All their vehicles are imperial. Just as chaos cultists are imperial models. There are some parts that are not usable in a practical sense like the hybrids, but the vehicles, bikes, neophytes and characters are all very usable as imperial models.

The fact is, they have been modelled as an imperial cult rebellion, not a tau, Ork or Eldar one. They are imperial.

I'm sorry, but by star trek rules ridged foreheads make them 100% alien. Last I checked most imperials had 2 or fewer arms, and those fewer better be due to industrial accidents. And no matter how you try to spin it, usable as imperial means squat, they're classified as xenos, they just aren't the ones you want and you want to keep being upset for not getting things no one told you you'd get.

Unless this is just a pair of happy imperial citizens taking an afternoon stroll


I mean really, at that point how many eldar models can I not say "Oh, that's got an imperial in it"? And how much does that number drop if I do a simple head swap? At that point chaos marines are imperial, any ork vehicle could be swapped with human crew, those must be imperial too. Quick someone write a short story where an imperial accidentally jacks a battle suit, not only would it be funny, then those would be imperial too.

Which leaves what, the tyranids(Hey, it might just be imperials in funny costumes, did you ever consider that? Maybe the Zoat costumes just didn't focus test well) and necrons, maybe they're really just undead imperials someone spray painted silver.

Sorry, this is just so damned absurd to me that I have to run with it.


Maybe you get your minis refresh at some point, but there's no purpose in claiming than anything you don't personally want isn't a xenos release.

Xenos isn't a faction. Any Imperial player can add space marines to their army by adding a detachment. Any Chaos player can add Tzaangors in the same way. Orks and Tyranids got releases when looking at to level factions. Eldar, Tau and Necrons didn't. Until I can add Orks to my Eldar army you can't claim that Orks getting a release instead of Eldar is like Ultramarines instead of AdMech. It's different.

Drager wrote:
Xenos isn't a faction. Any Imperial player can add space marines to their army by adding a detachment. Any Chaos player can add Tzaangors in the same way. Orks and Tyranids got releases when looking at to level factions. Eldar, Tau and Necrons didn't. Until I can add Orks to my Eldar army you can't claim that Orks getting a release instead of Eldar is like Ultramarines instead of AdMech. It's different.

I didn't notice anyone saying that - just a couple of us taking exception to the ridiculous assertion that GSC are an Imperial release.

Having said that, it is arguable that when GSC were released, that did open up options for Tyranids, though Orks, Necrons and Tau are still stuck as single faction forces.

Bring on a Kroot Mercenary book - with a fez - I say!

You have a choice between a competitive codex and new toys, you can't have both.
You can however get neither.

 Elbows wrote:
That's debatable simply because Craftworld players don't necessarily play Ynnari. I know I don't - hugely turned off by the models and the fluff/lore behind them. However we have a plastic Spiritseer, and yes the Blackstone random sniper chick. As a classic Eldar player too it's pretty frustrating to see the original mainline force of Eldar ignored while an entire Dark Eldar range become splastic (excluding some characters),.

Well... And Incubi. And Mandrakes. And Beasts. And Grotesques. And most of the court, but that doesn't matter as much.
DE aren't really that close to done as an all plastic army.


But yes, Craftworlds need love for things that aren't Wraith-nouns. Even if its just to reassure Eldar players that Aspect Warriors aren't going to disappear in some Ynnari apocalypse. They don't even get caught in photographs of the army anymore.

Voss wrote:

But yes, Craftworlds need love for things that aren't Wraith-nouns. Even if its just to reassure Eldar players that Aspect Warriors aren't going to disappear in some Ynnari apocalypse. They don't even get caught in photographs of the army anymore.

I just wish they would make the wraithguard and wraithblades troops so that one could reasonably field a full army of them.