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Tsar_Vaughn_II wrote: So I recently bought a 10 man infantry squad of steel legion metal miniatures and a metal yarrick and such because I thought steel legion was the way to go. Little did I realize right after I bought them I would be reconsidering my army right away. I've been thinking of making the switch to tallarn, or vallhallen or maybe even just stay steel legion. One thing is for sure, I'm not going catachan. Forget those guys
Anyways some guy on Ebay just posted a huge amount of old metal miniatures from every single guards faction ( and I mean every single darn faction out there from mordians to vostroyans) and I'm going crazy because now is the time to decide so I can grab a few myself but the thing is I'm very indecisive and have no clue if i should make the switch to vallhallen or tallarn or keep the legion.
Maybe some of you can give me some pros and cons of each army.
Oh the struggles of a 40k player....
Cadian:
Pros: Good on infantry and Basilisks. Only slightly worse than Catachan on TC's. Pask. Overlapping Fields of Fire
Cons: You're pretty immobile, and that's pretty bad this edition.
Catachan:
Pros: Awesome for all kinds of IG tanks. Pick this for your tank groups. Also not bad on infantry, since S4 infantry with Straken and Priest gives you infantry that can push up the board and take ground, very good this edition. Also like one of the most fun subfaction lore and character wise.
Cons: The models frequently leave much to be desired. The Punji Stick Stratagem sucks, but hopefully you have other things to spend your CP on anyway.
Valhallan:
Pros: Greatcoats & Ushankas. Your tanks also don't degrade basically until they're dead.
Cons: Strategem costs points unlike Tide of Traitors, and the whole tanks-not-degrading isn't actually that good. Maybe if you go whole-hog saturation on tanks, but then you'll be pinned in CQC. Your infantry bonus is also on the border of useless.
Vostroyan:
Pros: Pretend to be Tau! Also, +1 to hit for your Shadowsword/Baneblade/Stormlord!
Cons: You're not actually Tau, anyone you gain the ability to trade with is still better than you at midrange infantry gun duels, and your tanks don't care.
Armageddon:
Pros: +6" Rapid Fire range.
Cons: Tank bonus is basically worthless, and Vostroyans will also improve Rapid Fire range [by half as much] and come with better strategem support and improved max range.
YMMV: Gas Masks, so you can copy Krieger fashion sense. Kriegers still rock that look better than you do, though.
Elysia:
Pros: Paratroopers, Bullpup Lasguns, weapons dropped in separate boxes due to limitations in parachute designs, A cool special order. Tauros Venators
Cons: Out of Production,
YMMV: Maximum Tacticool short of Eliminators. Your lore consists entirely of A Bridge too Far.
Krieg:
Pros: Split-trail Lascannons. WS3+. What Morale? Krak Grenade Grenadiers
Cons: 50 point infantry, Catachans are better than you at [s]everything[s/] most things.
Nice breakdown of the different Regiments, but you forgot Mordians.
Which regiments work together fluff wise? Might be easy to buy for example one steel legion squad and one tallarn.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
MrMoustaffa wrote: My personal favorite is Valhallans. They get the best infantry order, especially combined with their doctrine. Being able to fire into combat as guard is just so handy. So many people think they're clever by consolidating into a squad or tri locking something. Valhallans can just laugh at that, either by killing the enemy unit in combat with you by shooting it or by rolling lots of ones and freeing yourself by killing the offending guardsmen in question And of course you can clean a tank off and let it fire even though it was charged, that's a great trick.
Sure they're not as powerful as Cadian or Catachan, but I think they have the best shot of surviving a melee list with their tanks. Between "fire on command" and their ability to just keep fighting on the top table, they're tough to shut down. Vigilus goes a long way to improving their firepower which helps close the gap a bit too. Which I like, Valhallans require a lot of thought and have some very rewarding tricks when played correctly. They let you play the most "thematic" guard army in my opinion, you absolutely just grind down the opponent. And when the opponent gets in combat you do the honorable thing and just gun him down in the open. And their tank ability absolutely comes up if you bring enough tanks, especially some Hellhounds. Slam the Hellhounds up the table and the opponent either kills the Hellhounds to protect his stuff or tries to finish Russe's in the backline. But a Russ is fighting at full on 4, and a Hellhound on 3.
Their only real issue is none of their abilities are inherently geared to offensive play. And for a true tournament list you need abilities that are always on or when you want them on, not reactive. The only reason I'm using them in serious games is because ITC rewards going second quite a bit and I wanted a guard army that could take a punch. That said while the morale and damage table help you keep fighting, they're not as aggressive as Catachan can be for example. I'd say they're a solid third place for me. Vostroyans can be splashed in but make a lousy full army, steel legion has good infantry trait but kind of uninspired tank trait, mordians are fun but again are defensive, and stormtroopers (whichever way you feel it can be taken) just aren't providing enough benefit to be a full army.
Sounds really cool and I would even consider buying vallhallens but the miniatures are an arm and a leg and I havnt found and full squad on Ebay. Just single models and 40$ a single model will kill me to just get a 10 man squad. I can easily find tallarn and steel legion though.
As you can tell I'm a very stubborn man in terms of 3rd party miniatures
Lance845 wrote: Steel legion has the best look. But models dont equal rules. Give them whatever rules you want. Also lots of 3rd party make the various guard regiments for a good prive without having to deal with metal.
I have to agree, you can use any of the IG infantry as any regiment you want, and there are quite a few excellent 3rd party companies for IG.
I'm personally partial to Victoria Miniatures myself.
I just looked at Victoria miniatures and they have some amazing pieces that look just like the vallhallens. That is so cool! Maybe I shouldn't be such a stubborn man when it comes to third party miniatures hehe. I just saw some 3rd party of steel legion and they look pretty bad in my opinion for steel legion but the Victoria ones actaully look great.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2019/08/07 02:37:46
Horst wrote: Cadian has two other big plusses you didn't include in your list...
1) Take Aim can give full re-rolls to hit for heavy weapons. Cadian Mortars are the best mortars.
2) Relic of Lost Cadia relic. If you find yourself fighting Chaos, this thing is so good it's insane. Giving an army-wide bubble of re-roll all hits and wounds is just amazing, even if only for a turn. And given how common Chaos Soup lists are, it's a good bet you'll find a use for it eventually.
Relic of Cadia is really good. Cadian is solidly second-place to Catachan, but Chaos gets really out of hand then they could take over just to provide that countermeasure.
Because specific anti rules are good Design if they hit whole factions
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/766717.page A Mostly Renegades and Heretics blog.
GW:"Space marines got too many options to balance, therefore we decided to legends HH units." Players: "why?!? Now we finally got decent plastic kits and you cut them?" Chaos marines players: "Since when are Daemonengines 30k models and why do i have NO droppods now?" GW" MONEY.... erm i meant TOO MANY OPTIONS (to resell your army to you again by disalowing former units)! Do you want specific tyranid fighiting Primaris? Even a new sabotage lieutnant!" Chaos players: Guess i stop playing or go to HH.
Tsar_Vaughn_II wrote: So I recently bought a 10 man infantry squad of steel legion metal miniatures and a metal yarrick and such because I thought steel legion was the way to go. Little did I realize right after I bought them I would be reconsidering my army right away. I've been thinking of making the switch to tallarn, or vallhallen or maybe even just stay steel legion. One thing is for sure, I'm not going catachan. Forget those guys
Anyways some guy on Ebay just posted a huge amount of old metal miniatures from every single guards faction ( and I mean every single darn faction out there from mordians to vostroyans) and I'm going crazy because now is the time to decide so I can grab a few myself but the thing is I'm very indecisive and have no clue if i should make the switch to vallhallen or tallarn or keep the legion.
Maybe some of you can give me some pros and cons of each army.
Oh the struggles of a 40k player....
Cadian:
Pros: Good on infantry and Basilisks. Only slightly worse than Catachan on TC's. Pask. Overlapping Fields of Fire
Cons: You're pretty immobile, and that's pretty bad this edition.
Catachan:
Pros: Awesome for all kinds of IG tanks. Pick this for your tank groups. Also not bad on infantry, since S4 infantry with Straken and Priest gives you infantry that can push up the board and take ground, very good this edition. Also like one of the most fun subfaction lore and character wise.
Cons: The models frequently leave much to be desired. The Punji Stick Stratagem sucks, but hopefully you have other things to spend your CP on anyway.
Valhallan:
Pros: Greatcoats & Ushankas. Your tanks also don't degrade basically until they're dead.
Cons: Strategem costs points unlike Tide of Traitors, and the whole tanks-not-degrading isn't actually that good. Maybe if you go whole-hog saturation on tanks, but then you'll be pinned in CQC. Your infantry bonus is also on the border of useless.
Vostroyan:
Pros: Pretend to be Tau! Also, +1 to hit for your Shadowsword/Baneblade/Stormlord!
Cons: You're not actually Tau, anyone you gain the ability to trade with is still better than you at midrange infantry gun duels, and your tanks don't care.
Armageddon:
Pros: +6" Rapid Fire range.
Cons: Tank bonus is basically worthless, and Vostroyans will also improve Rapid Fire range [by half as much] and come with better strategem support and improved max range.
YMMV: Gas Masks, so you can copy Krieger fashion sense. Kriegers still rock that look better than you do, though.
Elysia:
Pros: Paratroopers, Bullpup Lasguns, weapons dropped in separate boxes due to limitations in parachute designs, A cool special order. Tauros Venators
Cons: Out of Production,
YMMV: Maximum Tacticool short of Eliminators. Your lore consists entirely of A Bridge too Far.
Krieg:
Pros: Split-trail Lascannons. WS3+. What Morale? Krak Grenade Grenadiers
Cons: 50 point infantry, Catachans are better than you at [s]everything[s/] most things.
Nice breakdown of the different Regiments, but you forgot Mordians.
You're right!
Mordian:
Pros: Everybody has a hat, tank overwatch as good as your normal shooting, anybody can be a sniper.
Cons: Tau are also better than you at the whole overwatch thing, and being in base to base limits your board control
Which regiments work together fluff wise? Might be easy to buy for example one steel legion squad and one tallarn.
Anybody. Unlike the Space Marines the IG regiments don't choose who else is going to be in their corps and army group, and where they're going. An imperial operation involves lots of regiments, generally from across the nearby space but sometimes from across the galaxy.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2019/08/07 16:56:24
Guardsmen, hear me! Cadia may lie in ruin, but her proud people do not! For each brother and sister who gave their lives to Him as martyrs, we will reap a vengeance fiftyfold! Cadia may be no more, but will never be forgotten; our foes shall tremble in fear at the name, for their doom shall come from the barrels of Cadian guns, fired by Cadian hands! Forward, for vengeance and retribution, in His name and the names of our fallen comrades!
I think it would be pretty cool to run a mechanized Mordian army, with Veterans in an Emperor's Blade detachment from Vigilus. Move 12", get out of the transport with the Vigilus stratagem, and then unload 3 plasma rifles and 2 plasma pistols into a character. It would be like a 200 point unit if you count the Chimera, Squad, Officer, and weapons, but if you're deleting a character like Ahriman it's worth it.
Horst wrote: I think it would be pretty cool to run a mechanized Mordian army, with Veterans in an Emperor's Blade detachment from Vigilus. Move 12", get out of the transport with the Vigilus stratagem, and then unload 3 plasma rifles and 2 plasma pistols into a character. It would be like a 200 point unit if you count the Chimera, Squad, Officer, and weapons, but if you're deleting a character like Ahriman it's worth it.
I've been running a list like this, it's super fun. No veterans though, just a butt load of infantry. No one expects guard to be in your face like that, and then the overwatch surprise is just icing on the cake.
