tneva82 wrote:

 Omega-soul wrote:

Flashie08 wrote:
Chess clocks in future years could help reduce potential conflicts.

Well that was the case - they all had a chess clocks.
And penalty conducted after the general score was set, just sayin.

But anyway - both team are the strongest this year, and England being a tiny bit better. Congratulations to all!

Ummm...How can you slowplay if you have chess clock? That seems weird. Seems hard you could game advantage by slowplaying your own time when all that does is give opponent free chance to play without you being able to do anything(or flat out lose). What was the rule for running out of clock there then? Or were chess clocks just not used?

Albeit I'm not heavily into ultra competive tournaments so maybe I'm missing some way slow play can be beneficitial even with chess clocks dividing player time to half(and in which case seems chess clocks aren't the answer proponents are and best solution would be to stop following GW's marketing thing and reduce points rather than reward GW for upping point sizes and dropping point costs)

ETC Head Referee Neil “Skcuzz” Kerr here:

So it was the ETC this weekend and if you were following things you will have noticed Russia was docked 15pts which resulted in them getting no points in their draw against England.

In short Russia had occurred 3 separate warnings for time management for 3 different players in their team over 2 rounds (4 & 5 respectively). Whilst warning carry no penalty to the player (unlike Yellow and Red cards) if a team receives more than 1 they do start to occur a cumulative points penalty to the team. So since Russia had received 3 by the end of round 5 as a team they received -5 for the 2nd and a further -10 for the 3rd. So 15pts were taken from their score for the round.

It should be noted that I was told repeatedly over the weekend what a great bunch of lads the Russians were. These warnings and penalties do not reflect the gray attitude they show towards gaming.

This penalty for cumulative warnings is done to stop teams ‘strategically’ spreading out slow play warnings to gain advantages but avoid cards.

Now unlike yellow/red cards, these do not “shift” the score required to get a win/draw (ie yellow is -10 so now there is only 150pts in the round and thus you need 65/75 respectively) instead they are removed from team’s final score for that round; which in the case of Russia was 77pts. So 77-15=62pts which brought them below the 75pt threshold for a draw.

As such Russia gets 0 points but England only get 1 because they only scored enough to get a draw.

Now a similar thing happened to Belarus vs Canada. Cumulatively they included 4 infractions as a team and as a result took a 30point hit. That 4 included a players who received direct Yellow Card for unsportsmanlike conduct. So he individually lost 10pts from his individual games. In this case though Canada had lost the round by such a margin that the penalties had no effect.

Next up; regarding the red card for having a loaded die (it doesn’t matter which team btw) it was brought to referee corps’s attention that a player had a loaded die. Once it was verified it was indeed a loaded die the player was red carded (0-20) and left the venue. I checked with previous opponents and showed them the die, all said they didn’t think he used it in their games, but couldn’t be certain. But regardless he had a loaded die with him at the ETC, moreover he tried to hide it when the referees confronted him, so the only possible answer was to red card him. His previous results will be redacted to 0-20, which means 2 teams will move up the rankings as their round score will change as a result of the amended score. As to which team said player played for, that is irrelevant; one player’s actions have ZERO bearing on the reputation and credibility of the rest of his team. I can assure you they were as angry as I was. As such I ask that even if you know which team he played for, or what the player’s name is, you refrain from posting it here, as a witch hunt is unnecessary at this point.

Thanks to everyone who made the 2019 40K ETC the awesome event it was. I love you all and am looking forward to seeing everyone in Luxembourg.

Signing out as head ref for yet another year

Ciao! Neil.

Next up; regarding the red card for having a loaded die (it doesn’t matter which team btw) it was brought to referee corps’s attention that a player had a loaded die. Once it was verified it was indeed a loaded die the player was red carded (0-20) and left the venue. I checked with previous opponents and showed them the die, all said they didn’t think he used it in their games, but couldn’t be certain. But regardless he had a loaded die with him at the ETC, moreover he tried to hide it when the referees confronted him, so the only possible answer was to red card him. His previous results will be redacted to 0-20, which means 2 teams will move up the rankings as their round score will change as a result of the amended score. As to which team said player played for, that is irrelevant; one player’s actions have ZERO bearing on the reputation and credibility of the rest of his team. I can assure you they were as angry as I was. As such I ask that even if you know which team he played for, or what the player’s name is, you refrain from posting it here, as a witch hunt is unnecessary at this point.

 Ratius wrote:

Next up; regarding the red card for having a loaded die (it doesn’t matter which team btw) it was brought to referee corps’s attention that a player had a loaded die. Once it was verified it was indeed a loaded die the player was red carded (0-20) and left the venue. I checked with previous opponents and showed them the die, all said they didn’t think he used it in their games, but couldn’t be certain. But regardless he had a loaded die with him at the ETC, moreover he tried to hide it when the referees confronted him, so the only possible answer was to red card him. His previous results will be redacted to 0-20, which means 2 teams will move up the rankings as their round score will change as a result of the amended score. As to which team said player played for, that is irrelevant; one player’s actions have ZERO bearing on the reputation and credibility of the rest of his team. I can assure you they were as angry as I was. As such I ask that even if you know which team he played for, or what the player’s name is, you refrain from posting it here, as a witch hunt is unnecessary at this point.

Imagine spending all that time/money/energy to visit the ETC (flights, accom, army collection, food etc) and then bring a loaded dice, get caught and get booted.
Not sure to laugh or cry at this one.

Sunny Side Up wrote:
Also, from the head judge via Facebook.

beast_gts wrote:

Sunny Side Up wrote:
Also, from the head judge via Facebook.

Have you got the actual FB link for that handy? I want to share it with some people, but can't see it on the ETC page.

MVBrandt wrote:
He posted it in Competitive 40K

 Skcuzzlebumm wrote:
Hi guys, I am the Head Ref at the ETC (Neil Kerr in real life).


Neil

 quickfuze wrote:
Yeah, let's make sure to protect the cheaters identity so the community doesn't know who to watch out for when playing against him/her in a future tournament. Dumbest BS I heard in a long time.

MVBrandt wrote:

beast_gts wrote:

Sunny Side Up wrote:
Also, from the head judge via Facebook.

Have you got the actual FB link for that handy? I want to share it with some people, but can't see it on the ETC page.

He posted it in Competitive 40K

 Skcuzzlebumm wrote:

 quickfuze wrote:
Yeah, let's make sure to protect the cheaters identity so the community doesn't know who to watch out for when playing against him/her in a future tournament. Dumbest BS I heard in a long time.

Not that I should have to write this, because it is pretty obvious that we would have taken steps to ensure the word was out, else it could come back to haunt the ETC. But just to clarify what I, as a responsible TO, think is obvious: the Captain of the player who was red-carded was straight onto his country's respective social media platforms and told everyone what had happened. Plus he or we have notified the communities of the other countries surrounding his. AND his captain went through his player's rankings (not ITC btw - they don't use it where this guy comes from) and messaged the TOs of any events he has historically attended. So I am pretty sure he won't be attending any events in the near or distant future.

Given the above, writing his name up on the internet for all to see achieves nothing more than given certain people the excuse to try and conduct some kind of witchhunt; which in themselves often get out of control and likely ended up falsely targetting other people who are only guilty by association, not action.

 Skcuzzlebumm wrote:
Not that I should have to write this, because it is pretty obvious that we would have taken steps to ensure the word was out, else it could come back to haunt the ETC. But just to clarify what I, as a responsible TO, think is obvious: the Captain of the player who was red-carded was straight onto his country's respective social media platforms and told everyone what had happened. Plus he or we have notified the communities of the other countries surrounding his. AND his captain went through his player's rankings (not ITC btw - they don't use it where this guy comes from) and messaged the TOs of any events he has historically attended. So I am pretty sure he won't be attending any events in the near or distant future.

Given the above, writing his name up on the internet for all to see achieves nothing more than given certain people the excuse to try and conduct some kind of witchhunt; which in themselves often get out of control and likely ended up falsely targetting other people who are only guilty by association, not action.

 Da Boss wrote:
4 hours for a game is a really generous amount of time. Is it really difficult to play a full game in that timeframe with two experienced players? Genuinely asking, I haven't played since 5th ed!

Slipspace wrote:

 Da Boss wrote:
4 hours for a game is a really generous amount of time. Is it really difficult to play a full game in that timeframe with two experienced players? Genuinely asking, I haven't played since 5th ed!

4hrs is a hell of a long time if you ask me. Having played with and against a large variety of army types in 8th I can't think of a game that's lasted anywhere near that long - might have got to 3.5 hours once or twice, but that would have included the time spent getting the models out of the cases as well. These are all games played under casual conditions too, so it's not like we're laser-focussed on getting the game finished quickly. I'm genuinely curious as to what takes so long, particularly with how lethal 40k is now, which can quickly reduce the number of models on the board in the early turns, leaving the later turns to be much quicker.

 Da Boss wrote:
4 hours for a game is a really generous amount of time. Is it really difficult to play a full game in that timeframe with two experienced players? Genuinely asking, I haven't played since 5th ed!

 Brothererekose wrote:

 Da Boss wrote:
4 hours for a game is a really generous amount of time. Is it really difficult to play a full game in that timeframe with two experienced players? Genuinely asking, I haven't played since 5th ed!

The usual ITC tourneys' time is 2.5 hours at 2k points. 4 hours *is* a really generous amount of time.

And sometime *you* want the game not to go to turn 4-5, 6-7 because you score a lot early with Eternal and table control, but will lose in the end if the game goes to turn 5-6-7.

You also have to communicate in english for a lot of non-native speakers.

All these little things things adds up.

addnid wrote:

And sometime *you* want the game not to go to turn 4-5, 6-7 because you score a lot early with Eternal and table control, but will lose in the end if the game goes to turn 5-6-7.

You also have to communicate in english for a lot of non-native speakers.

All these little things things adds up.

shaelinith
If you don’t want these last turns, well there is not much you can do about that aside from slow playing which is cheating. The use of the clock in ETC still enables slow play by abusing the shift from one player to another so...
I sincerely hope you are not defending some form of slow play... are you?

Shaelinith wrote:
And sometime *you* want the game not to go to turn 4-5, 6-7 because you score a lot early with Eternal and table control, but will lose in the end if the game goes to turn 5-6-7.

You also have to communicate in english for a lot of non-native speakers.

All these little things things adds up.

tneva82 wrote:
How you ensure no turns 4-7? If you slowplay and run down your clock out isnt' it loss? Whole point of chess clocks should be to ensure game ends up or if one player slowplays his time runs out and boom lose.

Both players have 2h. If you spend your 2h and game isn't over yet boom lose no points.