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I like most of this changes for Goffs, BA and Snakebites, but the others kulturs are fine as they are (except for the non functionning ES relic).

As a player, I hate to feel there are obligatory choices and when I look at my boyz, I can't see why I would not take 30 of them. So I'd propose to :

- replace Green Tide by Furious Assault : "In a turn in which this unit as successfully performed a charge move, you can add 1 to its Attack characteristic."

I think it would help seeing more less than 20 boyz squad, in wagons or trukks.

Also I know Da Jump is a great (the best ?) tool we have, but It being in every single ork army is kinda bugging me. I mean honestly, when I don't take it I know I hinder myself. And in a internal balance way, I think it's a problem. Maybe it should be replaced by something à la Warp Time.

 JawRippa wrote:

Mozzamanx wrote:

I would personally prefer:
Blood Axes- +1" to Charge Rolls. Models can Fall Back and Charge/Shoot in the same turn.
Evil Sunz- Vehicles that have Advanced count as in Cover. Infantry can disembark from a Transport after it has moved, provided it did not Advance. Models can Advance and shoot Assault Weapons without penalty.

I'm actually really digging this. Not very powerful, but promotes lore-friendly units.

Lore friendly but fething useless. Blood axes are useless as they currently are, the fact that they didn't get something a lot better like +1 to all cover saves or always in cover or -1 to hit is ridiculous. As for hte current rule...yeah, useless.

The proposed buff to BA leave them useless still, maybe makes Kommandos better, but you can already do that with Evil Sunz so its basically just moving tricks. And of course the fall back shoot/charge is utterly useless because there are almost no situations where you would want to fall back and charge again.

Evil Sunz....first rule is useful, but since advancing doesn't hurt assault weapons in evil sunz armies it basically means you advance every single turn. The Infantry disembarking rule sounds nice, but again, useless. Trukk boyz are useless since they dont have +1 attacks and a good overwatch guts them, battlewagons suck because when they suffer 1 casualty they are no longer getting there +1.

Yea unless there are changes to Boys as proposed by Ironslug the Evil Sunz trait is a pretty big nerf.

Also worth considering that the morale of any Boyz in smaller groups is piss poor too so you'd be losing casualties by the bucket load.

Perhaps Evil Sunz Boys that disembark and make a charge auto pass moral for a turn or something and get rid of the disembark element of the rule (because that should be built into our open topped vehicles anyway, or at least a wargear option).

I think strengthening Klans is good, but I also think there should be Ork Kults as well.

Although many speed freaks are evil sunz, not all of them are.

There are so many ork army types out there, that are more distinct than unit choices.

IMO, the klan should be like chapter tactics, a background set of rules that an army has. But the Kults should be actual unique army lists.

ie

Kult of speed - lots of unique vehicles/bikes/coptas etc. Units of cyborks with gyrostablised monowheels.
Kult of Stormboyz - crazy rocket pack abilities, storm dredds (yes, storm dredds) etc
MekMob - stompas, gut smashas, mekstompas, deff kopta dredds.


so many options

I already mentioned what I'd like to see with those three Kulturz in the Ork Taktikz thread, so I'll just summarize here.

Goff: replace with +1 to S, Skarboyz gives an additional point of AP in CC.

Snakebitez: leave it the same, but add "GRETCHIN units can benefit from Kultur and use Stratagems".

Blood Axe: replace "Fallback and Charge/Shoot" with "+6" of range with Assault and Pistols used by INFANTRY".

I feel like this would put all three on par with the other 4 that are already in a decent place, while still making each a unique and flavorful choice.

 flandarz wrote:
I already mentioned what I'd like to see with those three Kulturz in the Ork Taktikz thread, so I'll just summarize here.

Goff: replace with +1 to S, Skarboyz gives an additional point of AP in CC.

Snakebitez: leave it the same, but add "GRETCHIN units can benefit from Kultur and use Stratagems".

Blood Axe: replace "Fallback and Charge/Shoot" with "+6" of range with Assault and Pistols used by INFANTRY".

I feel like this would put all three on par with the other 4 that are already in a decent place, while still making each a unique and flavorful choice.

Goffs would be good.

Snakebitez would still be useless. Kanz, even with access to stratagems and the snakebite kultur would still be weak. Realistically the only upside would be for mek gunz and Killa Kanz. And the kanz would sitll suck because they are a generalist unit with NO speed that has nothing but short ranged weapons and a crappy CC weapon.

For Blood Axe, I mean, almost anything would be better then the fall back and shoot nonsense but +6 range wouldn't do much for them. I see Blood Axe as a more 2nd round deep strike army. ANY Blood Axe unit should have the ability to infiltrate and Stormboyz gain "Taktikz" which allows them to advance twice or something that makes sense for Blood Axes since Stormboyz prefer to be blood axes.

Take the Snakebite Kanz in a Dread Waagh, throw them in a Tellyporta, and Da Jump a KFF Mega Mek into the middle. 6 BS4 Rokkits, with the option to shoot twice ain't too shabby. They become a viable target for Ramming Speed as well, with 30 WS5 S7 AP-2 D2 attacks. Even if you don't charge, your opponent still has 30 T5 5++ (against Ranged) 6+++ Wounds to eat through on a unit right in your face. Certainly not the scariest thing in our Codex, but it's a far cry better than they sit at now.

+6 range would allow a lot of Blood Axe units to actually shoot at "safe" distances, but (and this is what I'd like about it), it'd make Burna Boyz actually a viable choice. You could Da Jump them, or throw em in a Tellyporta or Battlewagon/Trukk and they'll actually have a chance to hit something before they get wiped.

 flandarz wrote:
Take the Snakebite Kanz in a Dread Waagh, throw them in a Tellyporta, and Da Jump a KFF Mega Mek into the middle. 6 BS4 Rokkits, with the option to shoot twice ain't too shabby. They become a viable target for Ramming Speed as well, with 30 WS5 S7 AP-2 D2 attacks. Even if you don't charge, your opponent still has 30 T5 5++ (against Ranged) 6+++ Wounds to eat through on a unit right in your face. Certainly not the scariest thing in our Codex, but it's a far cry better than they sit at now.

+6 range would allow a lot of Blood Axe units to actually shoot at "safe" distances, but (and this is what I'd like about it), it'd make Burna Boyz actually a viable choice. You could Da Jump them, or throw em in a Tellyporta or Battlewagon/Trukk and they'll actually have a chance to hit something before they get wiped.

For the snakebites though. You just said it yourself, this would not be the scariest thing we could do which means nobody is going to do it. Why waste Tellyporta, shoot twice and ramming speed on a garbage unit when you could do it with a much better unit. You could Tellyporta down a Gorkanaut who will do about the same amount of damage as the kanz in ranged combat and when he charges....well that is a big damn deal lol.


For range and blood axe units, You know GW as well as I do, you know as a fething fact they would make that rule and exclude Burna's and Skorchas.

It ain't always about making things the "best" option though. It's about making them viable for use. A viable choice isn't a bad choice, and that's matters a lot. Also, the Kanz would be less of a "suicide" option, with more Wounds spread across more Models, and no degrading profile.

Didn't they just give Spacemarines some long(er) range Flamers? I might be mistaken, but I think they have some that can hit out of DS.

 flandarz wrote:
It ain't always about making things the "best" option though. It's about making them viable for use. A viable choice isn't a bad choice, and that's matters a lot. Also, the Kanz would be less of a "suicide" option, with more Wounds spread across more Models, and no degrading profile.

Didn't they just give Spacemarines some long(er) range Flamers? I might be mistaken, but I think they have some that can hit out of DS.

True, but those are Space Marines. They get stuff Orkz can only dream of.

On the Kanz topic though, It wouldn't be "AS" suicidal, but realistically you aren't even remotely as effective against any type of target compared to a Gorkanaut. Plus, Kanz are in a weird place where they don't want to even be in CC so it makes it less of a useful strat.

Kanz need a complete overhaul honestly, which kills me because I have 12 :(

That's all fair. I've been wanting to field some Kanz myself, along with some Dreadz. Just make a Mek-based army, where everything is some kind of robot or vehicle. Too bad most of our options in those areas are subpar to terrible.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Really, Kanz sit in a similar place to MANz, in that they aren't really much good for anything except being a target and clearing/holding Objectives. But they're worse at it, because MANz can be Jumped and get Kultur.

 flandarz wrote:
It ain't always about making things the "best" option though. It's about making them viable for use. A viable choice isn't a bad choice, and that's matters a lot. Also, the Kanz would be less of a "suicide" option, with more Wounds spread across more Models, and no degrading profile.

Didn't they just give Spacemarines some long(er) range Flamers? I might be mistaken, but I think they have some that can hit out of DS.

It's one of the custom Chapter Tactic rules, and it's 3".

If you want the same 3" for one of the Kultures I'm all for that, but Blood Axes don't make sense. Bad Moons with that plus their innate reroll make more sense.

As side dish of the kultures...

What about modifying the grot problem as follows?

- Grot get kultures while they are wholly within 6" of an ORK CHARACTER.

Kans are somehow easy to fit in, big grot units not so much (which limits its exploitability).

IMHO would fit well thematically and matches up well with big meks.

I actually like Grots don't get Kultures. They really just need to be cheaper.

The only Gretchin I think really need Kultur are Kanz, to be honest. And, the lore suggests that the "Kanning" process does make Gretchin more "orky", so I DO feel like they, at least, should have some Kultur benefit.

 flandarz wrote:
The only Gretchin I think really need Kultur are Kanz, to be honest. And, the lore suggests that the "Kanning" process does make Gretchin more "orky", so I DO feel like they, at least, should have some Kultur benefit.

Eh, I'd allow it.