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So regarding statement about no love for Xenos:

It is true that there's been a lot of IoM- there ALWAYS is at the beginning of every edition, which is why I hate new editions. The key to Xenos love is picking an edition and STICKING with it long enough to get all the IoM stuff outta the way. With the new marine supplements and sisters on the way, we have finally arrived at the sweet spot. So have faith- GW has too many interdependant games right now to do a new edition for a while, so it's coming.

I mean every faction, including the Xenos ones are going to be getting new material in Psychic Awakening. For some factions it'll be just rules; for some it will be models; for others it might be both. Either way, all Xenos get something.

But beyond that, I want to dispute the claim that it's been terrible for Xenos at all. The Genestealer Cult did technically re-emerge in 7th, but mere months before 8th dropped. Even so, 8th expanded on the GSC BIGTIME! New vehicles, new characters. And they played a HUGE role in Vigilus, getting new content out of that set of supplements.

Then Speed Freaks, right? I know, the buggies aren't as effective as the tournament players want them to be, but that's a bucket of new cool models, and the game that was their delivery system was a Xenos only club. Ork vs Ork!

Now, plastic Aspects have started up. Only Banshees so far, but there it is. This leads us to Eldar.

You may not like Ynead and all of that fluff, but damn! It was BIG content for Eldar players. The capacity to put Elder and Dark Eldar in the same army via the Ynari? That is a crazy freakin game changer.

I do feel sorry for Dark Eldar- they've lost so much, and gained nothing in return (in terms of models and content- obsessions and strategems are solid, and their special raiding force rule was really cool til GW supermaxed battalions and brigades). Again, I think it's coming in 2020.

I also feel sorry for the Tau, which brings me to my final talking point- which is the response to the earlier suggestion that there wasn't enough Xenos to just spontaneously create and army. The Tau Empire is exactly that. Kroot and Vespids are an untapped mine. I don't actually like Vespid models...

But I love Kroot. If GW released a plastic greater gnarloc model tomorrow, I'd have one before noon even if it cost as much as a freakin knight. Furthermore, it also wouldn't matter to me whether it was a competitive choice or not.

I think there actually are Imperial Armour rules from a previous edition for a fully developed Kroot army. There you go... That's the army that could be drummed up outta the ether with very little effort. And because it already has a partner in Tau, even if the army isn't top tier, SOUP will help build a player base and provide support. And again, I'm pretty sure it's coming.

Oh, and by the way, both Dayak Grehk and Amalyn Shadowguide approve of this post.

Speaking as someone who has been collecting since RT days, I don't have a problem with the Primaris marines. I'm not fond of their in-universe background, and I do wish they had simply come out as replacements for the old models - not a supplemental/supplanting force.

I do also disagree with those claiming that the grimdark isn't changing. The video below - though clearly for marketing - is clearly anti-grimdark: Space Marines are depicted as Superheroes (that kids should look up to...) fighting off humanity's bad guys. Not the psychotic, genetically engineered killing machine xenophobic fighting for a corpse emperor in a bureaucratic nightmare world.

I feel that GW has sold and split up the marine lines so much, that they cannot keep up with everything and have sold so many marines they have built a bubble of players that could easily bleed off.
Like with a lot of things, they needed to be working away from this 10 years ago.
They need the marine players buying, but they also need players of the other armys around to keep the game interesting.
So more Space marines to sell.
When looking here and other places there are already people that have spent more on primeris marines than i have had to buy in the last decade. They have not had enough products for me to spend that much for the army i want to play.

Game is going to be nothing but space marines and GW will be sitting going no one wants to buy anything else.

When I started back in 3rd edition. Space Marine models did not look at all like I imagined they would based on pictures and fluff that they had. They were too streamlined, not gothic enough, not enough bling. The dark ages of the future was what drew me into 40k, I hate sci fi gak, clean is boring to me. Which is why at the time I went with Chaos Marines, because they looked like how the fluff was described.

Then around 4th/5th. GW decided to make actually good looking marines. Super gothic/ornamented, very busy models. They looked fantastic, and for the first time, I actually wanted to buy regular space marines.

Now it looks like they've gone back to the original design and to me (besides the better proportions) they look bland and boring. I super hate the new tacticool look of the phobos stuff. If I wanted that garbage I'd play infinity.

My hope is that future releases will bring in more of the baroque/gothic look. I would love nothing more than Black Templars and Grey Knights to come back in full swing.

They knocked Custodes and Sisters out of the park so far. I want more of that.

Give me chainswords and bling. Get that sci fi gak outta my 40K.

 Thargrim wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

 Thargrim wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

 Insectum7 wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:
thing iis Primaris Marines aren't THAT aesteticly differant.

Different enough, obviously.

they are but they're not noticably more or less gothic then normal marines. they still have sculpted eagles on their armor, and have relic boxes dangling from their belts. they're differant but not because GW "removed the gothic"

They do have winged skulls on their armor but I do not recall them bearing the aquila on the chest. Compare any new primaris artwork to the old black templars, dark angels, sm with ultras on the cover, etc codexes from the 2000s and the difference is clear as day to me.

a slightly differant aquillia doesn't prove anything. space marine devestators lack the aquilla all together. as do mk3 and 4 armor. the decoration on marine armor tends to vary, even within the same mark. that doesn't really change anything. I'm not claiming the armor is exactly the same obviously, just that people claiming it lacks any gothic 40k elements are well.. wrong (or they don't know what gothic means)

Maybe this can highlight the difference i'm seeing and feeling going on.

Spoiler:

If you ask me one of these certainly looks better than the other, and has the gritty detail I would normally associate with 40k.

I get what you're saying, and yeah I agree. Like that old large pic of a space marine battle company in parade rest with the chaplain walking down the line I assume looking them over and giving out some litanies before they'll perhaps board some transports. Such iconic, gritty and raw pics as opposed to the cleaner and more pretty look they seem to be pressing for. It's an opinion thing but yeah it's a stark artistic difference to be sure to hint at direction.

I feel like the game is changing in a drastic way. Maybe not rulewise (I actually like the 8ed format), but in its fluff. This isn't the grimdark setting I knew. This is just some regular space odyssey with giant supermen with starcraft-esque armours battling inferior monstrous enemies.

Fluff-wise, the dark age has been left behind and the renaissance is the new age.
This is indicated by replacing the Tactical Marines by Primaris.

 Stormonu wrote:
I do also disagree with those claiming that the grimdark isn't changing. The video below - though clearly for marketing - is clearly anti-grimdark: Space Marines are depicted as Superheroes (that kids should look up to...) fighting off humanity's bad guys. Not the psychotic, genetically engineered killing machine xenophobic fighting for a corpse emperor in a bureaucratic nightmare world.

GW were advertising Space Marines in that way since at least 5th edition though as well.

That video isn't exactly a "here's a detailed explanation of what a Space Marine is", it's a "here's a Space Marine talking and hyping himself and his brothers up".

Or are we supposed to believe that when GSC talk about salvation and freedom in their video ads they're also not grimdark too? Because freedom and liberty are also things kids should be looking up to.

Lol this topic again.

@Thargrim



The only real difference I see between the two is the style in which they were painted. I don't have much in the way of photo editing, but I ran the Primaris one through a couple of filters to grit it up (well make it look more like a 90's line drawing). Does that help it fit in with the old style or am I missing something?

Stormonu wrote:Speaking as someone who has been collecting since RT days, I don't have a problem with the Primaris marines. I'm not fond of their in-universe background, and I do wish they had simply come out as replacements for the old models - not a supplemental/supplanting force.

I do also disagree with those claiming that the grimdark isn't changing. The video below - though clearly for marketing - is clearly anti-grimdark: Space Marines are depicted as Superheroes (that kids should look up to...) fighting off humanity's bad guys. Not the psychotic, genetically engineered killing machine xenophobic fighting for a corpse emperor in a bureaucratic nightmare world.

You're ignoring the fact of how different the various chapters can be from each other. The Ultramarines portrayed here are very much the most 'reasonable' and 'heroic' of the SM, the poster boys for the Imperium. GW has made it plenty clear though that chapters like the Grey Knights, Flesh Tearers, Marines Malevolent, and Deathwatch are alot more uncompromising. Also, with the new emphasis on creating your own chapter, GW has given official sanction to create chapters that are as noblebright or grimdark as one likes.

 Insectum7 wrote:

Ehhh, Primaris are taking years to push out, and it's possible sales for the classics has tanked during that time. Plus, they didn't simply add "truescale marines", they wrote in "marine replacements" with a dozen new units that I'm not sure anyone was asking for.

On top of that, they did truescale Chaos just fine, but to a different scale than Primaris.

To top it all off, the old kits are pretty compatable with the Primaris anyways, do just upscaling marines slightly teally shouldnt have been an issue.

The fact that the Primaris units don't actually 'replace' existing units on a 1:1 basis seems pretty much intentional to NOT tank sales of regular marines. Obviously regular marines are going to decline in sales, but units of Lascannon Devastators or squads jumping out of Drop Pods (especially now) still have uses.

They could 'truescale' CSM fairly easily because there are way fewer CSM kits and way fewer CSM players - that and Chaos has an easy justification for bigger CSM (Chaos gifts).

As to compatibility, it's mostly arms that are compatible, and even then regular marine arms look out of place on Primaris without some work. It would have been less of an issue for proper truescales, but again you're still looking at re-creating dozens of SM kits to true-scale everything, and throwing out molds that are still selling units to do it.

 Sgt_Smudge wrote:

That video isn't exactly a "here's a detailed explanation of what a Space Marine is", it's a "here's a Space Marine talking and hyping himself and his brothers up".

Or are we supposed to believe that when GSC talk about salvation and freedom in their video ads they're also not grimdark too? Because freedom and liberty are also things kids should be looking up to.

Exactly, this video is meant to look like hype and propaganda, nothing more. It is what the Imperium wants its people to believe what the Space Marines are all like.

I certainly dislike the trend of making marines into shiny noble heroes instead of grim psychotic killers, but that has nothing to do with the Primaris and the trend has been going on much, much longer. The Black Library is a big contributor to that, but it has been pretty apparent in the GW material too.

 Thargrim wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

 Thargrim wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

 Insectum7 wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:
thing iis Primaris Marines aren't THAT aesteticly differant.

Different enough, obviously.

they are but they're not noticably more or less gothic then normal marines. they still have sculpted eagles on their armor, and have relic boxes dangling from their belts. they're differant but not because GW "removed the gothic"

They do have winged skulls on their armor but I do not recall them bearing the aquila on the chest. Compare any new primaris artwork to the old black templars, dark angels, sm with ultras on the cover, etc codexes from the 2000s and the difference is clear as day to me.

a slightly differant aquillia doesn't prove anything. space marine devestators lack the aquilla all together. as do mk3 and 4 armor. the decoration on marine armor tends to vary, even within the same mark. that doesn't really change anything. I'm not claiming the armor is exactly the same obviously, just that people claiming it lacks any gothic 40k elements are well.. wrong (or they don't know what gothic means)

Maybe this can highlight the difference i'm seeing and feeling going on.

Spoiler:

If you ask me one of these certainly looks better than the other, and has the gritty detail I would normally associate with 40k.

The one above hasn’t done anything worth mentioning and his clean armour shows it, the one below is covered in trophies and reminders of centuries of service, the difference is a bits box away. Problem is you are expecting a grim dark sprue of chains, fetishes and other trinkets(one of these days I’ll make that sound less like something to look for in a sex shop)...the fact GW hasn’t reboxed one for 40k is kind of surprising.
The Primaris chapter upgrade sprues are bland, embossed shoulder pads are great and all but I’ve been raiding Age of Sigmar Chaos kits to make my Space Wolves look like Space Wolves.

 Crimson wrote:
I certainly dislike the trend of making marines into shiny noble heroes instead of grim psychotic killers, but that has nothing to do with the Primaris and the trend has been going on much, much longer. The Black Library is a big contributor to that, but it has been pretty apparent in the GW material too.

I would say that is more a factor of GW focusing on the more noble chapters, as well as; hyping up their honorable aspects while downplaying their flaws. Which i just chalk up to marketing to them making their product more appealing to a wider audience. That is completely understandable. All the vile stuff is still there just hidden behind the scenery. Which is in some ways even more grimdark. It is starting to get a little tiring that fewer and fewer people are looking behind the scenery to see that all that grime is still there though.

I think there is pretty much a chapter for any sort of warrior disposition from knightly paragons, boisterous sci-fi vikings, stoic warrior poets, self-reflective fighting monks, professional soldiers, imperialistic bullies, mercenary cutthroats, despicable antiheroes, noble savages and even insane psychopaths. And that is just the loyalists. In terms of making your chapter your own, this works really well. If you want to infuse your local area with more grim psychotic killers make your chapter that way. There might be a meta story now that the players can't control, but at a local level they still get to dictate how good or evil their little corner of the galaxy is in the way they think about their army.

I think the Imperium 'bigging up' and misrepresenting Space marines as infallible heroes, when they are out there committing mass atrocious is far more grim-dark than the 2 dimensional "They are bad, this is bad, everything is bad all the time" approach, that some seem to think is "better" (it's also a satirical take on how the military is presented by national governments to their populous in real life)

40k has always had a darkly comic streak. It is steeped in irony and what better way to satirise the age we currently live in, of constant superheroes, than having the biggest, most awesome superheroes ever? I just hope they keep pushing it, making them seem so unbelievably noble and "good" before having them eventually split and turn traitor, to really show just how susceptible humans are to corruption, to mirror the Horus Heresy and show that history repeats itself.

 ArcaneHorror wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:
new xenos army? we got Genestealer cults. thing is that in 40k we have a lot of Imperial stuff in the background that can easily be spun into it's own army. with xenos we got..... help me out here, is there a single xenos race GW could make a new army out of? xenos races with considerable background development IN THE MATERIAL ALREADY?
the answer is "not really" Tau I suppose could be expanded easily eneugh. but...

The Q'orl could be made into a playable xenos faction. With their semi-willingness to make alliances with other races, their connection to Chaos, and the fluff about them possibly acquiring warp travel, there's alot that could be done with them.

Rak'Gol, Hrud, Barghesi, Slaugth, K'nib, Loxatl, Tarellians, Thyruss, Stryxis. Fair few right there off of the top of my head. So stop being obtuse Brian, there are literally loads they can use.

Rak'Gol, Stryxis and the Slaugth all have plenty of background material written for them in the Dark Heresy RPG books. More than enough to expand upon. All of the others have been mentioned in numerous places in the background but never expanded upon. Whole races have been built up from less, such as the Kroot and C'tan.

Barghesi could so easily be brought into the fray it's just laughable. They are such a threat that several SM chapters are stationed around the system they originate in just to keep them contained there (this is all the info there is on them right now) The Great Rift opens. Boom! In the ensuing chaos (ahem...) they are able to capitalise on this and break free. And it doesn't just go for them. Surely other species other than the GSCs have taken advantage of the instability the rift has caused?

Tarellians can be rolled into Tau (they work for them anyway), just give them some minis. Going this route you can even expand on the Vespid and Kroot or even any number of the Tau's client races that are mentioned in the background. They have a lot.

 Grimtuff wrote:

 ArcaneHorror wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:
new xenos army? we got Genestealer cults. thing is that in 40k we have a lot of Imperial stuff in the background that can easily be spun into it's own army. with xenos we got..... help me out here, is there a single xenos race GW could make a new army out of? xenos races with considerable background development IN THE MATERIAL ALREADY?
the answer is "not really" Tau I suppose could be expanded easily eneugh. but...

The Q'orl could be made into a playable xenos faction. With their semi-willingness to make alliances with other races, their connection to Chaos, and the fluff about them possibly acquiring warp travel, there's alot that could be done with them.

Rak'Gol, Hrud, Barghesi, Slaugth, K'nib, Loxatl, Tarellians, Thyruss, Stryxis. Fair few right there off of the top of my head. So stop being obtuse Brian, there are literally loads they can use.

Rak'Gol, Stryxis and the Slaugth all have plenty of background material written for them in the Dark Heresy RPG books. More than enough to expand upon. All of the others have been mentioned in numerous places in the background but never expanded upon. Whole races have been built up from less, such as the Kroot and C'tan.

Barghesi could so easily be brought into the fray it's just laughable. They are such a threat that several SM chapters are stationed around the system they originate in just to keep them contained there (this is all the info there is on them right now) The Great Rift opens. Boom! In the ensuing chaos (ahem...) they are able to capitalise on this and break free. And it doesn't just go for them. Surely other species other than the GSCs have taken advantage of the instability the rift has caused?

Tarellians can be rolled into Tau (they work for them anyway), just give them some minis. Going this route you can even expand on the Vespid and Kroot or even any number of the Tau's client races that are mentioned in the background. They have a lot.

Hmm. These Barghesi seem interesting. Just read on them after seeing your post. I also saw some fanarts depicting them. Is there an official source for their physical appearance ? I've also read that Drukhari beastmasters use them in the arenas for their death matches.

 Grimtuff wrote:

 ArcaneHorror wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:
new xenos army? we got Genestealer cults. thing is that in 40k we have a lot of Imperial stuff in the background that can easily be spun into it's own army. with xenos we got..... help me out here, is there a single xenos race GW could make a new army out of? xenos races with considerable background development IN THE MATERIAL ALREADY?
the answer is "not really" Tau I suppose could be expanded easily eneugh. but...

The Q'orl could be made into a playable xenos faction. With their semi-willingness to make alliances with other races, their connection to Chaos, and the fluff about them possibly acquiring warp travel, there's alot that could be done with them.

Rak'Gol, Hrud, Barghesi, Slaugth, K'nib, Loxatl, Tarellians, Thyruss, Stryxis. Fair few right there off of the top of my head. So stop being obtuse Brian, there are literally loads they can use.

Rak'Gol, Stryxis and the Slaugth all have plenty of background material written for them in the Dark Heresy RPG books. More than enough to expand upon. All of the others have been mentioned in numerous places in the background but never expanded upon. Whole races have been built up from less, such as the Kroot and C'tan.

Barghesi could so easily be brought into the fray it's just laughable. They are such a threat that several SM chapters are stationed around the system they originate in just to keep them contained there (this is all the info there is on them right now) The Great Rift opens. Boom! In the ensuing chaos (ahem...) they are able to capitalise on this and break free. And it doesn't just go for them. Surely other species other than the GSCs have taken advantage of the instability the rift has caused?

Tarellians can be rolled into Tau (they work for them anyway), just give them some minis. Going this route you can even expand on the Vespid and Kroot or even any number of the Tau's client races that are mentioned in the background. They have a lot.

I'm not being obtuse, I said "considerable background material" *sighs* ok, it's like this.. before Admech even came out, how much information did we have about the admech? we had TONS. Also just as importantly.. how much ART etc did we have of them? TONS. the admech where developed as a faction well before they got their codex. sure they invented new things but a lot of the leg work was already done. Likewise with Custodes, we already knew a fair bit (largely thanks to the excellent referance material from the Horus Heresy). Likewise with Genestealer cults, the new Xenos faction, we had tons of information, art etc about them out in the wild. We knew who they where, and GW knew who they where.

These armies where, comparitvly low hanging fruit to design. And just as importantly where widely known. Which is my point. GW seems mostly intreasted in making new factions of stuff that already exists, so It seems unreasonable to expect them to take an alien race mentioned once or twice and make an entire 40k army out of it. I'd love to see it, but I don't see it as a realistic expection. of course I also didn't think 40k would ever get a new army back when I started in 5th




Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Stormonu wrote:
Speaking as someone who has been collecting since RT days, I don't have a problem with the Primaris marines. I'm not fond of their in-universe background, and I do wish they had simply come out as replacements for the old models - not a supplemental/supplanting force.

I do also disagree with those claiming that the grimdark isn't changing. The video below - though clearly for marketing - is clearly anti-grimdark: Space Marines are depicted as Superheroes (that kids should look up to...) fighting off humanity's bad guys. Not the psychotic, genetically engineered killing machine xenophobic fighting for a corpse emperor in a bureaucratic nightmare world.

err those aren't kids looking up to space marines adoringly. those are INITIATES. even their propaganda video, outright tells us that space marines take CHILDREN and forge them into living weapons. IMHO GW still does the grimdark thing, they're just more subtle about it.

PenitentJake wrote:
So regarding statement about no love for Xenos:

It is true that there's been a lot of IoM- there ALWAYS is at the beginning of every edition, which is why I hate new editions. The key to Xenos love is picking an edition and STICKING with it long enough to get all the IoM stuff outta the way. With the new marine supplements and sisters on the way, we have finally arrived at the sweet spot. So have faith- GW has too many interdependant games right now to do a new edition for a while, so it's coming.

I mean every faction, including the Xenos ones are going to be getting new material in Psychic Awakening. For some factions it'll be just rules; for some it will be models; for others it might be both. Either way, all Xenos get something.

But beyond that, I want to dispute the claim that it's been terrible for Xenos at all. The Genestealer Cult did technically re-emerge in 7th, but mere months before 8th dropped. Even so, 8th expanded on the GSC BIGTIME! New vehicles, new characters. And they played a HUGE role in Vigilus, getting new content out of that set of supplements.

Then Speed Freaks, right? I know, the buggies aren't as effective as the tournament players want them to be, but that's a bucket of new cool models, and the game that was their delivery system was a Xenos only club. Ork vs Ork!

Now, plastic Aspects have started up. Only Banshees so far, but there it is. This leads us to Eldar.

You may not like Ynead and all of that fluff, but damn! It was BIG content for Eldar players. The capacity to put Elder and Dark Eldar in the same army via the Ynari? That is a crazy freakin game changer.

I do feel sorry for Dark Eldar- they've lost so much, and gained nothing in return (in terms of models and content- obsessions and strategems are solid, and their special raiding force rule was really cool til GW supermaxed battalions and brigades). Again, I think it's coming in 2020.

I also feel sorry for the Tau, which brings me to my final talking point- which is the response to the earlier suggestion that there wasn't enough Xenos to just spontaneously create and army. The Tau Empire is exactly that. Kroot and Vespids are an untapped mine. I don't actually like Vespid models...

But I love Kroot. If GW released a plastic greater gnarloc model tomorrow, I'd have one before noon even if it cost as much as a freakin knight. Furthermore, it also wouldn't matter to me whether it was a competitive choice or not.

I think there actually are Imperial Armour rules from a previous edition for a fully developed Kroot army. There you go... That's the army that could be drummed up outta the ether with very little effort. And because it already has a partner in Tau, even if the army isn't top tier, SOUP will help build a player base and provide support. And again, I'm pretty sure it's coming.

Oh, and by the way, both Dayak Grehk and Amalyn Shadowguide approve of this post.

Honestly what we need is a Mercenary Codex for the Tau. With new Kroot and Vespids. Along Guevesa Models and models for other Tau client races mentioned in the lore like Demiurg and Tallerians.

I'd say it's better to take something that exists in the background and expand on it than to take something existing and reverse their lore to make a small army.

GW aren't really subtle about their grimdark just confused about it.

BrianDavion wrote:


I'm not being obtuse, I said "considerable background material" *sighs* ok, it's like this.. before Admech even came out, how much information did we have about the admech? we had TONS. Also just as importantly.. how much ART etc did we have of them? TONS. the admech where developed as a faction well before they got their codex. sure they invented new things but a lot of the leg work was already done. Likewise with Custodes, we already knew a fair bit (largely thanks to the excellent referance material from the Horus Heresy). Likewise with Genestealer cults, the new Xenos faction, we had tons of information, art etc about them out in the wild. We knew who they where, and GW knew who they where.

These armies where, comparitvly low hanging fruit to design. And just as importantly where widely known. Which is my point. GW seems mostly intreasted in making new factions of stuff that already exists, so It seems unreasonable to expect them to take an alien race mentioned once or twice and make an entire 40k army out of it. I'd love to see it, but I don't see it as a realistic expection. of course I also didn't think 40k would ever get a new army back when I started in 5th

I repeat. Kroot and C'tan. Both of which either came from a single drawing in the 3rd ed rulebook or from scant mentions in various pieces (such as the Callidus' weapon) of 40k background. Rick Priestley mentions a bit referring to the "Gates of C'tarn" (IIRC) which was retroactively fitted into the background of the blank slate of the C'tan.

So, using your criteria we have Kroot (which can easily be expanded into a stand alone codex (again) a la Chaos Daemons), Rak'Gol, Slaugth, Stryxis, Vespid, Loxatl, Hrud, Thyruss, Umbra. There is a LOT of artwork and/or background material for all of these that can easily be used. And don't say "Well some of those are from the RPG. Joe Bloggs isn't going to know them!" firstly, who cares? GW have arse pulled something for various races all the time. Secondly, some of them are mentioned in BL fiction numerous times, like they're easing people in to their existence. Rak'Gol are mentioned in the first Bile novels for example. Loxatl are a key ally to Chaos forces in the Gaunt's Ghosts novels.

There is a whole wealth of untapped material out there that GW just doesn't dwell into, despite them being fairly important movers and shakers in the 40k galaxy.

Rak'gol and Barghesi are both awesome candidates for new playable alien races. Also, it's high time we get a xenos faction that is tied to Chaos, which both of these species have.

 Khornate25 wrote:
Hi people.
I feel like the game is changing in a drastic way. Maybe not rulewise (I actually like the 8ed format), but in its fluff. This isn't the grimdark setting I knew. This is just some regular space odyssey with giant supermen with starcraft-esque armours battling inferior monstrous enemies.

To most competitive players, this doesn't matter. They play to win. Hell, I even know a few who never bothered learning about the fluff of their SM army. I told myself to just adapt to the changing times and stop being so immature, and that maybe this evolution of things would grew on me.

However, GW tacticool ghost recon SM fetish finally hammered the last nail in the coffin for me when they remade Shrike.

The aptly named Repulser wan't enough on its own,
but when I saw those Restartes with flight-packs and auto cannons,
it all went over the edge...

And totally agree with the not so grim setting.

If Sly Marbo was Sylvester Stallone's Rambo,
the new Shrike is Jared Leto's Punisher.

 Khornate25 wrote:
Yeah, maybe it's just me getting old and having this whole ''back in my days everything was better'' mentality. I guess we must all go throught it at some point.

I don't know when you got started in the hobby, but if you got started at an early age I can promise that the feeling of grimdark lies most likely in entirely how you were as a person then being introduced to something new and fresh. If you were getting into the hobby now, but at the same age as you originally got into it, you'd probably feel the entire setting to be very grimdark.

There is a great deal of emotional nostalgia that reinforces a lot of our viewpoints regarding things. I would say that a lot of people's feelings on old 40k are reinforced by such emotional nostalgia.

 Eldarsif wrote:

 Khornate25 wrote:
Yeah, maybe it's just me getting old and having this whole ''back in my days everything was better'' mentality. I guess we must all go throught it at some point.

I don't know when you got started in the hobby, but if you got started at an early age I can promise that the feeling of grimdark lies most likely in entirely how you were as a person then being introduced to something new and fresh. If you were getting into the hobby now, but at the same age as you originally got into it, you'd probably feel the entire setting to be very grimdark.

There is a great deal of emotional nostalgia that reinforces a lot of our viewpoints regarding things. I would say that a lot of people's feelings on old 40k are reinforced by such emotional nostalgia.

I'll push back on this and say when I started in the hobby, the Horus Heresy novels didn't exist, Lexicanum didn't exist, digital photography wasn't a thing, video game graphics werent any competition, and a lot more about the 40k universe had to be filled in with your own imagination.

There's a case to be made for the horror-movie technique of "the less you know, the more powerful the effect."

 Insectum7 wrote:

 Eldarsif wrote:

 Khornate25 wrote:
Yeah, maybe it's just me getting old and having this whole ''back in my days everything was better'' mentality. I guess we must all go throught it at some point.

I don't know when you got started in the hobby, but if you got started at an early age I can promise that the feeling of grimdark lies most likely in entirely how you were as a person then being introduced to something new and fresh. If you were getting into the hobby now, but at the same age as you originally got into it, you'd probably feel the entire setting to be very grimdark.

There is a great deal of emotional nostalgia that reinforces a lot of our viewpoints regarding things. I would say that a lot of people's feelings on old 40k are reinforced by such emotional nostalgia.

I'll push back on this and say when I started in the hobby, the Horus Heresy novels didn't exist, Lexicanum didn't exist, digital photography wasn't a thing, video game graphics werent any competition, and a lot more about the 40k universe had to be filled in with your own imagination.

There's a case to be made for the horror-movie technique of "the less you know, the more powerful the effect."

I agree with that point. 40k was very much just a mystery at that point for many. However, I would add that the mystery usually looks bigger the younger you are compared to an aging cynic like myself.

^I agree that age (or just lack of time) has that effect.

But for an IP which was built upon wild imagination, it sure stinks to see the company not encourage it as much. (No model-no rules)

Insectum7 wrote:

 Eldarsif wrote:

 Khornate25 wrote:
Yeah, maybe it's just me getting old and having this whole ''back in my days everything was better'' mentality. I guess we must all go throught it at some point.

I don't know when you got started in the hobby, but if you got started at an early age I can promise that the feeling of grimdark lies most likely in entirely how you were as a person then being introduced to something new and fresh. If you were getting into the hobby now, but at the same age as you originally got into it, you'd probably feel the entire setting to be very grimdark.

There is a great deal of emotional nostalgia that reinforces a lot of our viewpoints regarding things. I would say that a lot of people's feelings on old 40k are reinforced by such emotional nostalgia.

I'll push back on this and say when I started in the hobby, the Horus Heresy novels didn't exist, Lexicanum didn't exist, digital photography wasn't a thing, video game graphics werent any competition, and a lot more about the 40k universe had to be filled in with your own imagination.

There's a case to be made for the horror-movie technique of "the less you know, the more powerful the effect."

Insectum7 wrote:^I agree that age (or just lack of time) has that effect.

But for an IP which was built upon wild imagination, it sure stinks to see the company not encourage it as much. (No model-no rules)

Unfortunately, it is the younger market that hasnt grown up with imagination at the forefront since everything is CGI and over commercialized.

I really liked filling in the blanks with gameplay. Tyranids invading, Orks Pillaging, Chaos chaos-ing, were all fodder for prelude to next battle or consequences of the last. My squad of Salamanders had epic battles both on tabletop and creating stories to solve a riddle left in the rulebook/codex/army list.

This thread is really just becoming - "It was way better back in my day, kids these days don't know how to do it properly!" (Never mind that GW is bigger, more popular and successful than ever before)