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I would trade reroll 1's to wound AND ftgg for being able to fire at WS in combat. I think having the occasional unit assaulting is a lot less frustrating and unfun than having a castle getting a free round of shooting at you.
I would not even mind if the ability only triggered if you assaulted instead of being assaulted. Also assaulting is a choice you have to do carefully compared to passively getting free shooting rounds.There would be a real trade here if you went Farsight instead of Tau. People complain about tactics they can't counter. In this case, there is plenty of counterplay.

Shovi wrote:
I would trade reroll 1's to wound AND ftgg for being able to fire at WS in combat. I think having the occasional unit assaulting is a lot less frustrating and unfun than having a castle getting a free round of shooting at you.
I would not even mind if the ability only triggered if you assaulted instead of being assaulted. Also assaulting is a choice you have to do carefully compared to passively getting free shooting rounds.There would be a real trade here if you went Farsight instead of Tau. People complain about tactics they can't counter. In this case, there is plenty of counterplay.

Other actual assault armies have ways to pull off their charges easier: advanced and charge, re-roll charges, +2 to charge rolls. Im curious which units from a Tau army you think will give the FSE army a stronger competitive sense by giving them a buff that triggers on a roll of a 5+ (WS5+), only after they (maybe) reach combat - while taking away from every other Tau unit their For the Greater Good ability (that all other Tau Septs get naturally)? So, in essence when an enemy unit is within 12 and declares a charge, only that FSE unit being charged can now Overwatch - which hopefully is balanced out by having another FSE unit on the opponent's side in combat triggering their new ability on WS5+.

I'm still thinking a minor buff (re-roll 1s to wound) across the whole army that they can capitalise on multiple times over many turns: shooting phase, enemy charge phase (overwatch), and then also melee/combat is a more robust and helpful Tenet. Giving a Tenet that will only work on a couple (how many Tau units on average will make the Charge in one game do you think?) of Tau units in the opponents front lines is so risky, that it feels right now you are loosing more than you could potentially gain. Remember, GW's original "within 6" of the enemy unit" tenet - didnt work because it was too short. Technically, a combat ONLY tenet is even shorter....

Ok, so now there is one person saying the proposed mechanic is unfun and too powerful and another saying it is inconsistent and weak compared to ftgg with T'au Sept or 12" rerolll 1's to wound + normal ftgg.
I already answered the first part of forementioned issues, let me see if I can counter argue the second part.

To clarify my proposal before of going on:
Farsight forces are supposed to lose ftgg and reroll 1's to wound and instead get the ability to shoot their weapons in close combat the turn they assault using their weapon skill instead of their ballistic skill. This ability is restricted to the first turn of combat as long as you are the one that has assaulted.

Reasoning:
I am proposing to take away ftgg too, because some would say they combination is too powerful. I realise it is not elegant in that it goes against the rule that all codex units have it. But I think it is not unreasonable to assume that farsight might get a supplement. Also compare to blood angels, dark angels and space wolves that probably will lose some of the SM v2 traits and gain others when they get their rules. From a fluff perspective this is easily explainable since we all know farsight favours aggression. "Learn to shorten your reach", as he once said. Ftgg is a defensive concept. As I explained earlier my proposed change would change Enclaves playstyle fundamentally compared to other Tau which I consider a good sign.

Consistency and potential:
Obviously yes, reroll 1's to wound inside of 12" is a solid trait, and will trigger often (maybe once or twice a game per unit, if you built your army around the tenet). It will trigger more often than shooting in combat as long as there is a restriction that you may only shoot when you assaulted yourself. However, being able to shoot at ws in combat is a very strong ability, in a sense that it gives you some real damage potential on its own on top of your normal shooting. It allows you to finish off wounded units in your turn, that means before they get to react compared. A single unit charging and shooting at WS may do about the same damage as multiple units rerolling 1's to wound during the shooting phase. If you go one step further and allow the ability to trigger when you get assaulted too, it will trigger about as often as ftgg will over the course of a game. There are games where your enemy has no interest in assaulting you and there are some where he makes multiple charges in a single round. You have the ability to actively make the ability trigger by charging yourself though. Let us imagine a unit of three crisis with fusionblasters attacking. You just deepstruck and your unit was not quite able to kill a specific tank. Now you have the option to assault and get another three fusion hits in. That is really strong and maybe game changing. As a side effect, you gain movement by charging, helping to capture objectives or you maybe blocking units from moving, shooting, charging or advancing in their turn.

Who does profit:
When you look at the units profiting from reroll 1's to wound at 12" it is probably the ones that are the fasted aside from using it during ftgg. That means all kinds of suits except broadsides and mounted firewarriors and tanks as well as flyers, so the units farsight would naturally prefer for his tactics. I would probably not march forward just to get rerolll 1's to wound unless I have a big group of models with a lot of overwatch potential. The risk to get assaulted increases nonlinearly the closer you get to the enemy and is not worth rerolling 1's to wound most of the time. I would not build an army or tactics around it. Castling is still stronger.
Now the very same units that profit from reroll 1's to wound at 12" will profit from shooting in combat too, except that the payoff maybe way bigger.

To sum it up:
My proposal means a significant change of playstyle and tactics. Active decision making is required as well as good risk management but the payoff maybe bigger and multi dimensional. Farsights philosophy is not about playing it safe but to rip out an enemy armies heart with a single well planned strike.

 Waking Dreamer wrote:

Spoiler:

 Eipi10 wrote:

Waking Dreamer wrote:

 Eipi10 wrote:
Also, +1 to wound on the onager gauntlet? Are you trying to punch titans to death? +1 to hit and a the damage boost are probably enough. Then again there is probably a reason I have never seen it used so I don't know how strong (or weak) it normally is. But I can compare it to the Custodes Obliteratum, a similar S10 1 shot AT weapon, and it only gets d3 damage. It is also never used, so maybe it should be 2d3 or even 3d3 damage instead.

Not Titans, Leman Russ tanks on the other hand... Ive been thinking for a long while now, what rules would make the Onager Gauntlet reliably cripple a T8 W12 Leman Russ tank in one round of combat (i.e. 1A on WS3+). I didn't want to give the relic a base profile of something ridiculous like S14-16, but hoping with the 3+ to hit, and then 3+ to wound (targets with T6 or higher - which are most vehicles) on only one attack, then with hopefully a good D6 damage roll (the official damage rule) - clearly wasn't good enough for a relic that also costs you 1CP. BUT with +1 to hit and to wound against vehicles (aka Leman Russ tanks just like in the fluff)...the Onager Gauntlet is now hitting on 2s, wounding on 2's and statsically averaging rolls of 6 damage on a tank (3D3 Damage), before saves. Knocking it down at least one damage bracket, if it wasn't damaged beforehand from any shooting. Not bad for a relic weapon designed to kill tanks in combat with only one attack? Worth the 1CP to include in your army now imo.

Other armies pay 1 CP for very minor damage dealt to vehicles. There's the Custodes relic, Tesla's Skull, and a CSM relic all do basically squat. Your proposal is far out of proportion to similar relics. These relics do need a boost, but that's for another time. I think GW wants something like 1 CP for one guaranteed mortal wound, and the harder it is to deal wounds the more wounds you can do. You need to lose either the +1 to wound and +1 to hit (especially this, power fists should not give bonuses to hit) or go down to the highest of 2d6 damage (melta damage). That way you do an average 3 of dmg to a LR instead of 4, in between that and the previous 1.5 dmg.

I agree those other relics are bad, and that's why no one ever takes them. The Onager Gantlet's original rules is actually worse. I'm adjusting its rules so that its not in line with other bad relics but its in line with those confirmed good relics (competitive for those 2-3 relic slots in your army list), where you would not feel disappointed in taking it over some other army relic. Did you take into account with the other "anti-vehicle" relics that they have a range of up to 12" while the Onager is strictly melee? Currently the other relics trigger on a 2+ (Custodes BS2+), where the Crisis Commander base profile is WS3+ which this 1 attack Gauntlet would otherwise solely rely upon?

I can see possibly reducing that damage profile to D6 damage (along with the melta rule/damage) or maybe have it D3+3 damage. Essentially, a one attack melee weapon that will roll 4-6 damage (never exceeding 6) in one round of combat. A non-buffed smash captain with a normal thunder hammer will be marginally out-damaged by the Gauntlet's average against vehicles (situational buff), however in turn the Gauntlet will be clearly out-damage by the thunder hammer captain against everything else (before any added SM buffs/relics).

I guess it's up to me to buff the other relics, giving the obliteratum d6 damage should be enough.

What about super melta damage, highest 1 of 3d6, it would average 5 damage and have a good change of a 6 while not being as consistent as a 3+d3. What if you gave the gauntlet a -1 to hit (like a powerfist), but let you make multiple attacks with it, 2 or d3?