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I needs to have a 2+ and 4++ saves, with a FnP on a 5+.
It should also be able to heal 6 wounds a turn.

Oh, and it should also have a Ballistic Skill of 2+.
OH And all of its weapons should have their AP increase by 1 at least.

OH AND it shouldn't degrade at all.
OH AND IT should only cost ~400 points.

/s aside that's what the Stompa would be if it was released right now for marines (read iron hands).


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Quasistellar wrote:
Gotta be real careful with the shooty ork stuff. Yeah they’re BS5 base, but the spike damage possibility is absolutely insane on some of this stuff.

I would buff its durability via a FnP and changing the degradation table to the more normal 3 tiers before doing anything with points or damage.

Yes, which is why Ork weapons are worse AND cost more than their space marine counter parts.
wait wut?

I'm kinda on board with just giving it +2 T, a 3 part Wound Bracket of 40/20/10, and the Ramshackle ability. Damage output isn't a problem as long as it can survive long enough to actually use its weapons. T10 means the vast majority of weapons are only gonna Wound 1/3rd of the time, and Ramshackle means there's a chance any AA weapon that DOES break through the Toughness will be reduced to 1 damage, and even when it takes damage you have longer before it loses viability. With a KFF Mek inside, that's a large improvement in its survivability, commensurate with what a 900+ pt model SHOULD have.

Leaning back in my arm chair, looking at a model this big of a target with no invuln or defensive ability besides wounds, I'd say make a special exception for the stompa and make it ignore the damage table.

Or give it a 5++, Supa rokkits(if they only appear on a stompa that is) should be Damage 6, they are 1 use hitting on 5s after all, and maaaybe make units auto pass morale for its effigy rule. It might be worth its points with this, maybe...

 blood reaper wrote:

 Hollow wrote:
It's already worth it. Good model with fun rules. Fits nicely with the army. No need to change anything.

This reads like a GW blog post trying to sell a new miniature.

Technically wouldnt that be Reece trying to sell us on that

Make it come with 100 free grots.

The irony is that the Stompa was probably stronger in 7th edition, when it was still a non-viable joke.

At least back then you could cram it full with a couple of big meks and a pair of min-sized burna mobs with meks. Having the option to regen lost weapons and a solid amount of HP per turn, as well a repair damage table was a huge boon. Oh, and anything that got close got to eat a ton of burna templates. That was fun.

As has been said, a substantial cost cut (probably in the 200-300 point range) is required. After that, you can pick two from: 2+ 5++, 4+ BS, 40/20/10 degrades profile, T10, and Ramshackle.

How about;
1. A drop to about 700-750 points
2. An in-built KFF like the morkanaut, or Ramshackle.
3. BS4+ standard, which degrades at half wounds (grot gunners)
4. More forgiving degrade table that doesn't instantly cripple it

Although it would be entirely more justified being in the 800-900 mark if you have it all of the above

Sorry, I haven't got my books with me, but surely you could get the stompa to shoot twice using the kustom ammo strategem by taking it in a supreme command detachment and making that a dread waaagh det from the vigilus book?
Make the klan a snakebite one and you get a free 6+++ too, or any of the cultures.

Disregard, found a copy online. Stompas can't have the dread waagh keyword, so can't then use kustom ammo.

 r_squared wrote:
Sorry, I haven't got my books with me, but surely you could get the stompa to shoot twice using the kustom ammo strategem by taking it in a supreme command detachment and making that a dread waaagh det from the vigilus book?
Make the klan a snakebite one and you get a free 6+++ too, or any of the cultures.

Disregard, found a copy online. Stompas can't have the dread waagh keyword, so can't then use kustom ammo.

Even if you could, that shouldn’t be required to make it good.

the problem is that you need 3 hq choices to do so, pushing up the cost rather a lot. And Stompas don't gain DREAD WAAGH! - only Big Meks, Gorkanauts, Morkanauts, Deff Dreads, & Killa Kans get the new keyword, and Kustom Ammo requires it.

The Klan Kultur is nice but not worth the surcharge.

Equally, the STOMPA MOB requires a super-heavy detachment. Although technically you can take a stompa mob of one stompa and two kill tanks.

I'd like to see it top out at 666 points - allowing a superheavy detachment of 3 with Stompa Mob and Klan Kultur in 2000 points - if that works, great, if not, then I agree with Afrodactyl of adding Grot Gunners and - if STILL not good enough - Ramshackle. 3 with Grot Gunners feels good enough to try as a starting point, though.

when the Epic scale Stompa came out it was the Ork Knight in effect, what it needs to be is roughly the same cost and overall effectiveness as a knight - perhaps more durable but less killy at range, but nasty in the unlikely case it catches you.

the issue is GW seem to think the thing is a warhound titan and that was the Slasha Gargant as I remember it

I like the model, would love to have one, but drops the points somewhat, perhaps tone down the maximum damage of the ranged weapons (I'd keep the BS:5+ as the thing is going to be shaking all over as it moves), drop the transport capacity but maybe give it what amounts to a group of boyz for fighting in melee only as the krew...

basically: cheaper (knight point values), same basic profile, less random weapons (so lower maximum output), slow moving hard to quickly kill but not that hard to grind down by blowing bits off.

give it an option for a KFF to represent power fields with a suitable cost, allow grot riggers and similar as options

leopard wrote:
when the Epic scale Stompa came out it was the Ork Knight in effect, what it needs to be is roughly the same cost and overall effectiveness as a knight - perhaps more durable but less killy at range, but nasty in the unlikely case it catches you.

the issue is GW seem to think the thing is a warhound titan and that was the Slasha Gargant as I remember it

I like the model, would love to have one, but drops the points somewhat, perhaps tone down the maximum damage of the ranged weapons (I'd keep the BS:5+ as the thing is going to be shaking all over as it moves), drop the transport capacity but maybe give it what amounts to a group of boyz for fighting in melee only as the krew...

basically: cheaper (knight point values), same basic profile, less random weapons (so lower maximum output), slow moving hard to quickly kill but not that hard to grind down by blowing bits off.

give it an option for a KFF to represent power fields with a suitable cost, allow grot riggers and similar as options

Its ranged weapons are already about equal to that of a dakka knight. The New Knights which cost 500ish are significantly better in ranged damage AND durability. The problem i see with your suggestion is that you want the Stompa to be worse at shooting (its already terrible) and you want it to be slow, but good in CC. Even if you increased its durability by 25% you still won't even get to combat that often and then surprise surprise you just wasted 400-500pts on a model that accomplished nothing.

ohh, and in case you were wondering how terrible the Stompa is at shooting. This is the shooting averages against a T7 3+ save vehicle

Deff Kannon, 10ish shots on average (10.5) this averages out to be 12.25 shots when you add in Dakkax3 So that equals 4.08 hits at S10 which becomes 2.7 wounds which ignore armor at -4AP and do D6 damage which averages out to be.....9.5 damage

Supa Gatler 10.5 shots with a good chance to double this so lets say 21 shots. Add in dakkax3 and its 24.5 shots, that averages 8 hits at S7 so 4 wounds at -2 AP which means....2.66 damage

Supa Rokkit 1 shot, Add in Dakkax3 and you average .38 hits a turn at S8 which means .25ish wounds a turn which averages out to...... .87 damage a turn

Big Shootas (all) 15 shots with dakkax3 its 17.5 which averages 5.83 S5 so 1.94 wounds with no AP so .64 damage a turn.

The Skorcha will inevitably be out of range

So against a T7 vehicle this 920pt monster can inflict 13.67 damage. If the enemy vehicle has an invuln save of 5+ or better that cuts the damage by almost a third. Against another Knight for instance this thing is pitiful and can't even keep up with the damage output of a model 1/2 its cost.

So again, if you reduce its shooting abilities that much you are going to have to compensate for it somewhere else, and do so very very heavily. Conversely, if you want to reduce the Deff Kannon to be 2D6 instead of 3D6 and increase the Gatler to 4D6 and give it BS4 that would be a good compromise. Lowers its overall damage potential while upgrading its average nicely. But all of that is only on the promise that it still drops its price by at the very least a third and probably closer to a half.

thinking less "worse" at shooting and more "less random", seems you pay for what you could do, not what you typically [/i]will [/i] do.

slow yes, but it already is, so thats fine, it just doesn't look like it should be all that nimble

what it should do is murder anything in a similar class it can catch, but struggle to catch unless the enemy helps (so decent in say a scenario where things have to get close, or where it can deploy well)

I don't want the thing to be 'auto win' or 'please spam me', just viable and suitably priced - robustness through wounds not invulnerable saves so yes it can be spam shotted to death, while the rest of the list lives as a result, and priced such that there is a 'rest of the list'

aware the shooting is generally terrible currently

I see the things role as basically a slow moving wall of death to anything that gets close enough advancing behind the rest of the force towards fixed objective locations where it will proceed to enjoy itself if not stopped, not a mobile fire platform.

but circa Knight points, more deadly up close, less so at range and more durable in terms of wounds so without the invulnerable save it takes similar amounts of firepower to drop it on average (or as noted give it an invulnerable save as an option as a power field, and price accordingly)

my thinking on weapons is note "make 3d6 into 2d6" (where the average drops from 10 to 7, and it becomes more random) but maybe have it run to "heavy 10", or perhaps "heavy 12" or similar - basically reduce dice rolling for the sake of it

leopard wrote:
thinking less "worse" at shooting and more "less random", seems you pay for what you could do, not what you typically [/i]will [/i] do.

slow yes, but it already is, so thats fine, it just doesn't look like it should be all that nimble

what it should do is murder anything in a similar class it can catch, but struggle to catch unless the enemy helps (so decent in say a scenario where things have to get close, or where it can deploy well)

I don't want the thing to be 'auto win' or 'please spam me', just viable and suitably priced - robustness through wounds not invulnerable saves so yes it can be spam shotted to death, while the rest of the list lives as a result, and priced such that there is a 'rest of the list'

aware the shooting is generally terrible currently

I see the things role as basically a slow moving wall of death to anything that gets close enough advancing behind the rest of the force towards fixed objective locations where it will proceed to enjoy itself if not stopped, not a mobile fire platform.

but circa Knight points, more deadly up close, less so at range and more durable in terms of wounds so without the invulnerable save it takes similar amounts of firepower to drop it on average (or as noted give it an invulnerable save as an option as a power field, and price accordingly)

my thinking on weapons is note "make 3d6 into 2d6" (where the average drops from 10 to 7, and it becomes more random) but maybe have it run to "heavy 10", or perhaps "heavy 12" or similar - basically reduce dice rolling for the sake of it

The problem with your durability solution is that right now, in todays meta, it is a prerequisite to be able to kill a knight in a turn, and a Knight with a 4++ Invuln save from the strategy effectively has an additional 50% wounds or without it, 33% more wounds which means that a Stompa is about as durable as the Knights are currently. So how do you increase durability without giving it a Invuln, do we give it 60 wounds? You want its ranged attacks to be almost useless and it to be slow meaning it won't get into combat until turn 2 at the absolute earliest which means on average it needs to survive 2 rounds of shooting, and since you can kill a knight a turn, the very least it would need is 60+ wounds. Then you have to factor in the invuln save that it will inevitably get from a Big Mek being in it which thereby gives it a 5++ which means it has 80 wounds really.

5++ is an extra 50% wounds against anything that forces it.

4++ is a doubling.

I said drop 150pts ish, but now with IH out, lol more like 300pts

Dont forget IF with +1D to vehicles, wouldnt that be worse than IH

 Smirrors wrote:
Dont forget IF with +1D to vehicles, wouldnt that be worse than IH

Either way, stompa is even worst now with marine meta

a while back we did a super heavy shootout at my flgs. it was 1k points lord of war only. The 2 stompa players (i was one) which were just that a stompa as the list as it was lord of war only, lost every game

we had told people they were bad but nobody could believe how terrible they were.

after the rounds we ran individual imperial knights against the stompas and usually the imperial knights won. so models costing ~1/3 the points were beating a stompa.

the biggest issue is that damage chart. once you lose 20 wounds (without an invunerable save, so you are eatign everything) any other unit cna dance around you and you will never get in an assault with it on a 6x4 table.

I think the unit could be fixed but the first thing that needs to be addressed is that table. either eliminate it (one of the most orky things I can think of) or remove the movement from it. Also of note it is T8, maybe bring it up to T9 or 10 without an inveunerable save and give it ramshackle to negate a few wounds(6+++) so its a big tough ork vehicle that will absolutely not slow down until you destroy it completely. It wrecks face if you can get it in close combat with 20 or more wounds... it just in real games never actually gets to get in close combat.