Psychic Awakening: Phoenix Rising NEEDS to succeed.

Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:

No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
Times and dates in your local timezone.
Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.

If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

**Karol**

Well VW did it oopsies like that over the last few years, and they are still alive. But then again we enter the world of politics, party funding, selling your stuff to China no matter what or americans enter the market, and people hoping from politics to banks, to goverment and back to private sector. Kind of donkey-cave thing to do to put your possible employer in to trouble, just because he is breaking the law.

Now GW is no BP, but I don't think the goverment would let them be hurt too much in court.

**Agamemnon2**

Comparing a primarily artistic product (a wargame miniature) to a functional one (a car) is misguided at best. GW releasing a model that's got crap rules or looks stupid does not open them to liability the same way as VW putting out a total lemon does.

**BertBert**

You can't compare GW to car manufacturers.

Their miniatures cannot be unfit for purpose (except in the case of miscasts or missing parts) as they have no purpose outside of looking nice, which is a conveniently subjective matter.

Cars, on the other hand, have very clear and objective criteria that can render them unfit for purpose.

**Kriswall**

I think it's just too early to tell how this thing is going to pan out.

As a Necrons player, I'm very underwhelmed. My takeaway so far is that we'll get a series of campaign books highlighting 2+ armies. If a given campaign book doesn't feature new Necrons rules or units, I either have to forego the story, or buy rules for some other armies to read the new fluff. I actively don't want to spend the inevitable $40-50 to just read the story bits.

Given how many factions there are currently, I'm expecting this to be a 1-2 year release cycle with maybe 8+ or so campaign books. I do recognize that there are five flavors of Adeptes Astartes who could potentially all use a generic new Primaris unit. So charitably, we'll call the below list 23 factions instead of 27. At 2-3 factions per campaign book, that's a lot of books.
1. Adepta Sororitas
2. Adeptes Custodes
3. Adeptes Mechanicus
4. Astra Militarum
5. Blood Angels
6. Dark Angels
7. Deathwatch
8. Grey Knights
9. Imperial Knights
10. Inquisition
11. Officio Assassinorum
12. Sisters of Silence
13. Space Marines
14. Space Wolves
15. Chaos Daemons
16. Chaos Knights
17. Chaos Space Marines
18. Death Guard
19. Thousand Sons
20. Craftworld Aeldari
21. Drukhari
22. Genestealer Cults
23. Harlequins
24. Necrons
25. T'au Empire
26. Tyranids
27. Ynnari

**Not Online!!!**

CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Karol wrote:

The problems start, when they make a engine upgrade kit and blows the engine you have in your car, or makes it teat itself apart if you actualy drive it.

And then no one buys their defective product and they get sued into oblivion. That's the Free Market.

With alternative options, GW however has cornered their market preety well. Ergo they are an oligopol.

**Hellebore**

The currently advertised releases have already covered 3 factions, because ynnari can take stuff from other Eldar armies.

I imagine the same kind of thing would happen to all the others.

You could cover every imperial army with a single sharable unit -they already share most of their stuff. And it could also appear in chaos armies too...

The only armies that would need unique units are:

Daemons
Tyranids
Necrons
Orks
Maybe tau (but they could still use an imperial unit)

**Sterling191**

Hellebore wrote:

You could cover every imperial army with a single sharable unit -they already share most of their stuff. And it could also appear in chaos armies too...

*laughs uproariously in Deathwatch*

**Daedalus81**

BrianDavion wrote:
This post is IMHO evidance that the useal suspects are prepared to whine over PA. claiming "faction X didn't get eneugh" I mean let's assume PA is designed to operate over a year, and the stuff previewed is it. 4 new kits, 1 "unit kit" and 1 character kit. for elder and dark eldar each, assuming GW does this for every faction in the game in a years time that's a giant release. with 22 armies in the game. that's 44 new units. that kinda release would be massive indeed. but you know damn well we'd get complaints from the useal suspects about not getting eneugh, with harping about how aweful GW was for putting out a Grimdarius mini instead of "another xenos mini"

Let the pre-complaining begin! I can't wait!

**Ishagu**

It could be epic and grand, it remains to be seen just how much. Some people getting ready to complain in advance is ridiculous and shows just how toxic some "hobbyists" are.

If this ends in the resurrection of the Emperor, complete with a model for him, then it will exceed expectations.
From the way it has been described it's not unusual to expect Russ or the Lion, or someone like that. It's going to be fun, either way!

**Gir Spirit Bane**

Ishagu wrote:
It could be epic and grand, it remains to be seen just how much. Some people getting ready to complain in advance is ridiculous and shows just how toxic some "hobbyists" are.

If this ends in the resurrection of the Emperor, complete with a model for him, then it will exceed expectations.
From the way it has been described it's not unusual to expect Russ or the Lion, or someone like that. It's going to be fun, either way!

Cant we please NOT have a reborn emperor in 40k? I mean, least not in real space. It's the f'ing emperor for gods sake, either he'll be overwhelming powerful and insta table everything or be a hilarious let down and gets blown up by 90 guardsmen FRFSRF'ing top of turn 2.

I'd love to see an expansion on the Eldar side, def more pure Chaos Daemons ( Damn it GW, give me Khorne ogryn size infantry which throw colossal axes!) and Tyranids to omnom psykers and all the tasty biomass and maybe focus down the Eldar due to the Ynnari concentrating all the psykers in one place and offering a buffet.

**Daedalus81**

Gir Spirit Bane wrote:
Ishagu wrote:
It could be epic and grand, it remains to be seen just how much. Some people getting ready to complain in advance is ridiculous and shows just how toxic some "hobbyists" are.

If this ends in the resurrection of the Emperor, complete with a model for him, then it will exceed expectations.
From the way it has been described it's not unusual to expect Russ or the Lion, or someone like that. It's going to be fun, either way!

Cant we please NOT have a reborn emperor in 40k? I mean, least not in real space. It's the f'ing emperor for gods sake, either he'll be overwhelming powerful and insta table everything or be a hilarious let down and gets blown up by 90 guardsmen FRFSRF'ing top of turn 2.

I'd love to see an expansion on the Eldar side, def more pure Chaos Daemons ( Damn it GW, give me Khorne ogryn size infantry which throw colossal axes!) and Tyranids to omnom psykers and all the tasty biomass and maybe focus down the Eldar due to the Ynnari concentrating all the psykers in one place and offering a buffet.

A lore return of the Emperor doesn't mean he'll get a model.

**Elfric**

Cars can be a potential danger public safety. A GW model with broken rules, despite the butthurt, is not dangerous to public safety.

I often wonder why some people play Warhammer 40K, so much bitterness and venom to the company keeping the game going.

**Sterling191**

Elfric wrote:
Cars can be a potential danger public safety. A GW model with broken rules, despite the butthurt, is not dangerous to public safety.

Im pretty sure a Thunderhawk accelerated to an appropriate velocity could be considered a danger to public safety. Or some of the old metal models.

**Togusa**

drbored wrote:
After a few conversations, I put on the ol' thinking cap (read: downed an energy drink cocktail and ate a mountain of pancakes) and considered something a little important for the future of GW's release schedule.

It is imperative that Psychic Awakening is a success. At the very least we know there are going to be 4 books, coupled with models here and there depending on the nature of the campaign, alongside all of the other things GW intends to release over the next year for 40k.

If the first book is 'meh' (like Vigilus 1 was), that is going to set the tone for the rest of the Psychic Awakening. Through their community site and teaser videos they are painting a dire picture:

A. This event is bigger than Cadia falling.
B. This event is bigger than the Horus Heresy.
C. This event is bigger than the Fall of the Eldar.

And yet the consensus from those I've talked to is... that somehow, all of this hype will lead to some fluff in a book, a few detachments, a couple new models, and little else. Maybe we'll get a primarch, maybe a few characters will die off, but at the end of the day all that'll mean is more complaints from salty players (they killed off X! I want my own primarch, but instead they gave us Y!).

If GW does exactly that, gives us a series of books like Vigilus 1 (in which, by the way, several space marine formations are already pointless), then the entire Psychic Awakening campaign will be a wash, forgettable, and the community trust for GW's hype will be at an all time low.

Under such an event, you can expect even GW managers to struggle to drum up hype for any future campaign books and for the 40k story as a whole to simply... stagnate, kind of like before 8th edition, when we were always on the cusp of the 13th black crusade but not quite there yet.

On the flip side, if GW does make some big changes, brings us more than we're expecting, shakes up the lore in interesting and daring ways, then we might be headed into a golden age of GW lore. They've promised to wrap up plot points, to resolve certain conflicts, to fill some holes and reveal some secrets. The feeling, though, is that the biggest secret we might get revealed might be, "The Emperor's hair was actually dark brown, not black." Let's hope we get more than that.

Anyone else feeling a bit... pessimistic about this Psychic Awakening stuff? That it's not going to be all they've hyped, not even close?

PA is nothing more than a ploy to release new models in plastic and update the line. If you're hoping for serious rules and new awesome things, prepare to be disappointed..

Marines will get a literal boatload of new stuff, as will chaos and eldar. As usual Orks and Tyranids will get nothing and like it.

**Stormonu**

Elfric wrote:
Cars can be a potential danger public safety. A GW model with broken rules, despite the butthurt, is not dangerous to public safety.
.

You obviously are not familiar with the Dreadsock, nor have handled Tyranid models.

On a more serious note, this is just another case of GW overhype for an otherwise mediocre model and rulebook release. Looks like it is the start of the drip of Eldar model rereleases - hopefully their attempt at phasing out their remaining finecast line (for all factions). I’m watching the release with interest, but I’m not letting myself be drawn into the hype.

And I seriously hope we won’t be seeing more Primarchs and such for this - though a new Eldar Avatar would be nice. Maybe Necrons will get some love too, in the form of some new units - perhaps even the return of pariahs.

**BertBert**

Stormonu wrote:
... perhaps even the return of pariahs.

This would be the perfect occasion indeed. Also hoping for floating polar bear psyker Tau auxiliaries.

**Pain4Pleasure**

Are marine players, who GW has a policy that every time a Xenos or chaos faction gets a single new model, a mandatory marine release of 5 new kits, 3 new HQ, optional vehicle release, and new supplement as well as optional storyline release with added stratagems, formations, relics and rules is released, really telling people to be thankful for their one or two new models and a handful of rules they get every 2-5 years? Ha. And they wonder why we love when their boys in blue are the absolute worst in the game.

**Daedalus81**

Stormonu wrote:
Elfric wrote:
Cars can be a potential danger public safety. A GW model with broken rules, despite the butthurt, is not dangerous to public safety.
.

You obviously are not familiar with the Dreadsock, nor have handled Tyranid models.

On a more serious note, this is just another case of GW overhype for an otherwise mediocre model and rulebook release. Looks like it is the start of the drip of Eldar model rereleases - hopefully their attempt at phasing out their remaining finecast line (for all factions). I’m watching the release with interest, but I’m not letting myself be drawn into the hype.

And I seriously hope we won’t be seeing more Primarchs and such for this - though a new Eldar Avatar would be nice. Maybe Necrons will get some love too, in the form of some new units - perhaps even the return of pariahs.

Quite possibly. It seems that no model comes out with either A) a codex or B) a campaign. If they can't make enough for a whole codex then campaign it is.

I think this is why CSM 1.01 was so hacky - it straddled the line a little too much and they messed it up rushing things out.

GW's hype revolves more around fluff movements over models/rules even if 'everyone gets something'.

**Sentineil**

Agamemnon2 wrote:
The attitude that a customer should be thankful to a corporation for being presented a new product to buy is a bizarre and offputting one. Do you praise Burger King every time there's a new seasonal Whopper? Do you give thanks to your lord and savior Chevrolet for the new options package for this year's Camaro?

If you want to buy the new Eldar, fine. But the company's already taking your money so at least keep your dignity instead of becoming their fawning sycophant.

Do you like the hobby? Are you not happy when your army gets new releases?

Burger King is an awesome example to use too. They always get massive backlash every time they release a new burger X and it's not Y. Do you get upset every time they release a new seasonal Whopper and it doesn't meet your specific needs?
If you complain endlessly that Burger King haven't released a vegan, gluten free, free range kale burger, and then they release one, would you not be thankful? Is that not how that works? You want a luxury item and someone delivers it? Your response is "About time"?

The attitude that a faceless corporation driven by profits for some reason owes you something is both bizarre and amusing. It's been kind of you to donate to their cause all these years I guess. Me? I like their product, and I'm happy to pay for it because I get value from it. When they release something new that I will enjoy, I'm happy. Thankful even.

It's a shame half the people on this forum seem to have a different hobby to me. I paint and play 40k, while their hobby is getting indignant and upset at a company motivated by profit and growth.

CthululsSpy wrote:Why? Its the customer's money, GW isn't giving them the models for free. The customer doesn't owe GW anything either, in fact I dare say GW should be thanking their customers for keeping them in business for 30 years.
I don't see why one should not be allowed to criticize a company for not updating several ranges when they are instead pooling resources into one or two armies. Granted, Primaris did need to be expanded upon, but there are xenos armies still waiting for their finecasts to be released in plastic, and that should have been the priority.

Can we point out where I said it should be free? No? Can we stop using strawman arguments? Cool.

We don't owe GW anything, absolutely right. GW also doesn't owe us anything either. They offer a product we enjoy and we pay them in return. As much as GW should be thanking us for keeping them in business for 30 years, we should be thanking them for providing us with a hobby and enjoyment for 30 years.

My point of contention is when we ask for something, GW delivers it, and the response is that of petulant children.

But hey, I'm sure I'm just a fanboi, white knight and a sycophant because I actually enjoy the hobby and enjoy new content.

**drbored**

This customer x Corp conversation is edging into off topic.

At the end of the day, I doubt the rest of the Eldar line is going to be updated any time soon. In fact, one of my theories is that "a phoenix will fall" is in reference to them killing off one of the aspect warrior lines and its phoenix lord so they dont have to make a new kit for it.

**Sentineil**

drbored wrote:
This customer x Corp conversation is edging into off topic.

At the end of the day, I doubt the rest of the Eldar line is going to be updated any time soon. In fact, one of my theories is that "a phoenix will fall" is in reference to them killing off one of the aspect warrior lines and its phoenix lord so they dont have to make a new kit for it.

You're right, I apologise.

I'm not sure they're going to kill off an aspect though. I'm still hoping that there's more going on with the story than just Eldar, and that the Phoenix rising will be Fulgrim, which ties into the latest Warhammer Community story about Slaaneshi daemons attacking.

There's also the usual Phoenix rising from the ashes, so the Phoenix that falls could be the same one to rise.

**jeff white**

Marvel + miniatures marketing = HasbroHammer

**Dumb Smart Guy**

drbored wrote:
This customer x Corp conversation is edging into off topic.

At the end of the day, I doubt the rest of the Eldar line is going to be updated any time soon. In fact, one of my theories is that "a phoenix will fall" is in reference to them killing off one of the aspect warrior lines and its phoenix lord so they dont have to make a new kit for it.

That would be a pretty explosive feth you to CWE players.There's no real upside to it for GW compared to just letting that aspect linger in the purgatory of poor QA finecast

Also it's obvious this release is just geared to the Ynarri/Aeldari thing. I didn't expect a ton being just a CWE player

**BrianDavion**

Kriswall wrote:
I think it's just too early to tell how this thing is going to pan out.

As a Necrons player, I'm very underwhelmed. My takeaway so far is that we'll get a series of campaign books highlighting 2+ armies. If a given campaign book doesn't feature new Necrons rules or units, I either have to forego the story, or buy rules for some other armies to read the new fluff. I actively don't want to spend the inevitable $40-50 to just read the story bits.

Given how many factions there are currently, I'm expecting this to be a 1-2 year release cycle with maybe 8+ or so campaign books. I do recognize that there are five flavors of Adeptes Astartes who could potentially all use a generic new Primaris unit. So charitably, we'll call the below list 23 factions instead of 27. At 2-3 factions per campaign book, that's a lot of books.
1. Adepta Sororitas
2. Adeptes Custodes
3. Adeptes Mechanicus
4. Astra Militarum
5. Blood Angels
6. Dark Angels
7. Deathwatch
8. Grey Knights
9. Imperial Knights
10. Inquisition
11. Officio Assassinorum
12. Sisters of Silence
13. Space Marines
14. Space Wolves
15. Chaos Daemons
16. Chaos Knights
17. Chaos Space Marines
18. Death Guard
19. Thousand Sons
20. Craftworld Aeldari
21. Drukhari
22. Genestealer Cults
23. Harlequins
24. Necrons
25. T'au Empire
26. Tyranids
27. Ynnari

it's nice to see a xenos player who aknowledges that the various differant space marine forces are in fact differant factions. the idea that they're somehow not is well.. it's just arrogant to dismiss an entire faction

**Karol**

Agamemnon2 wrote:
Comparing a primarily artistic product (a wargame miniature) to a functional one (a car) is misguided at best. GW releasing a model that's got crap rules or looks stupid does not open them to liability the same way as VW putting out a total lemon does.

tunning kits or body work for cars, isn't made or done for function unless your ultra rich I think.

Do you like the hobby? Are you not happy when your army gets new releases?

what if your army doesn't get any new stuff, or the stuff you get is something you can make out of a basic trooper box for same cost, only getting 4 extra guys?

The attitude that a faceless corporation driven by profits for some reason owes you something is both bizarre and amusing. It's been kind of you to donate to their cause all these years I guess. Me? I like their product, and I'm happy to pay for it because I get value from it. When they release something new that I will enjoy, I'm happy. Thankful even.

Don't you think it is GW job to produce a working set of rules for their model line to use in the game they design? Or if they don't, then shouldn't their at least put a warrning. For example model companies that make really complicated model kits, put a warrning that this kit is not for new players. Then if GW doesn't make their rule sets to be played, and some armies are done by ineratia, as GW has to make them, because they made them in the past, then maybe they should put a warrning in their codex or at their store, that army X is ment for hobby collectors and painters, and not new players that want to play.

**Eonfuzz**

BrianDavion wrote:

it's nice to see a xenos player who aknowledges that the various differant space marine forces are in fact differant factions. the idea that they're somehow not is well.. it's just arrogant to dismiss an entire faction

Just imagining that we have to sit through *another* year of mehreen releases is almost maddening.

drbored wrote:
This customer x Corp conversation is edging into off topic.

At the end of the day, I doubt the rest of the Eldar line is going to be updated any time soon. In fact, one of my theories is that "a phoenix will fall" is in reference to them killing off one of the aspect warrior lines and its phoenix lord so they dont have to make a new kit for it.

This is absolutely my train of thought. I'd also imagine they're pushing to Join Eldar / Dark Eldar together into a single army.

**Elbows**

I don't think it really matters if Psychic Awakening works. The books will be expensive, poorly written (Vigilus was...not very well written, really ham-fisted in parts and pretty boring...also the story suffers whenever GW tries to force a dozen factions onto one-planet ).

What it does have to do is sell models, and it will.

**TheFleshIsWeak**

Eonfuzz wrote:

This is absolutely my train of thought. I'd also imagine they're pushing to Join Eldar / Dark Eldar together into a single army.

On the plus side, if this happens then DE might actually get access to worthwhile HQ choices for the first time in a decade or so.

**Argive**

1st of all, what hype? Ive seen a trickle of PA stuff drip feeding some overdue models... which clearly is a way of longing out the 2 Eldar kits coming out to look like a releaseand to make it seem more than it actually is..Its obviously not part of some wider release. If it is they are doing a piss poor job of getting that across. Its just a couple of sculpts getting updated. Everything on the community website is spammed about warcry, bloodbowl aos and every other specialist mini game under the sun. It really does not feel like any hype and anything that does come out is really luck lustre in terms of content. It feels like nobody cares.. I know I don't.

Where space marine poster boys were getting huge splats, everyone including their mother was shouting from the rooftop celebrating space marines and their seemingly endless torrent of models and rules being vomited out, the PA related Eldar stuff gets maybe 2 paragraphs and a picture and a "that's all for today folks, come back on Monday to read a paragraph or two about some stuff that's 40k related but not about space marines".

2nd of all its slowly sinking in they are only re-doing banshees and jain zar because driving the story/narrative towards ynari with some BS short story about how eldar randoms decide to join a battle they have no business or skills in fighting and just roll over and die because reasons.. You guys remember that scene from ice age where the dodos just run off a cliff ? yeh that. Not interested.

So yeah. Psychic awakening? More like psychic lame thing..

**Eonfuzz**

Argive wrote:
1st of all, what hype? Ive seen a trickle of PA stuff drip feeding some overdue models.. Everything on the community website is spammed about warcry, bloodbowl aos and every other specialist mini game under the sun. It really does not feel like any hype and anything that does come out is really luck lustre in terms of content. It feels like nobody cares.. I know I don't.

Where space marine poster boys were getting huge splats, everyone including their mother was shouting from the rooftop celebrating space marines and their seemingly endless torrent of models and rules being vomited out, the PA related Eldar stuff gets maybe 2 paragraphs and a picture and a "that's all for today folks, come back on Monday to read a paragraph or two about some stuff that's 40k related but not about space marines".

2nd of all its slowly sinking in they are only re-doing banshees and jain zar because driving the story/narrative towards ynari with some BS short story about how eldar randoms decide to join a battle they have no business or skills in fighting and just roll over and die because reasons.. You guys remember that scene from ice age where the dodos just run off a cliff ? yeh that.

So yeah. Psychic awakening? More like psychic lame thing..

Absolutely this. Orktober had the exact same thing with imperium content being advertised and we know how that turned out.
Except... Psychic awakening has had even less articles than "orktober" did.