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Well, their super doctrine is +1 to hit and wound with meltas and flamers in the tactical doctrine if memory serves. That's a pretty massive buff across the board even if those weapons aren't optimal choices.

 Insectum7 wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:
IMHO there's a trinity of top Marine armies. Iron Hands (duh) Imperial Fists, and Ultramarines. Ultramarines doctrine ability does not get the attention it should, it can be crazy good for a mobile army. meanwhile the toolchest of their strats is proably the best of them. All the other chapoters are designed to fight one way. Ultramarines are going to be a wildcard army where you can't be 100% sure what you're dealing with.

^This so much. The UM Strats give you so much flexibility, there's a ton of ways to run them. Just the "Pick any Doctrine for a Squad" is so money.

yeah as I said, tell someone you're running Imperial Fists, Iron Hands, Salmanders, White Scars or Raven Guard and they know exactly what to expect. the books tend to lock you into a certain way of fighting. Iron Hands mean you'll wanna run a tank heavy list. Imperial Fists will favor a infantry with heavy weapons and lots of bolt gun support. Raven Guard are a bit odd seeming to favor a hybrid of assault and long range sniper support, White Scars are the "Fast moving close combat" army in the vanilla codex.

Ultramarines can't do these specific things as well but are absurdly flexable.

Edit: Weird delayed double post.

One problem Salamanders are going to have to deal with is the fact that both flamers and melta are in a very poor spot in 8th. If they use strategems to make them better, you will end up bleeding CPs. They either need some savage point cuts or some fundamental rules changes, which are going to be beyond the scope of the supplement.

Best we can hope for is a relic/trait that lets them be better in an aura.