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Ticks me off Celestine is 160 pts when Mephiston costs 145 and arguably is much better at everything than Celestine.

And that’s just the first named character I thought of.

I am building a 2000 point BR list for a small tournament this weekend. It is an aggressive list with all infantry (3 units each of Zephyrs and Seraphs, plus Dominions and MM Rets and supporting cast).

That said, I have about 180 points leftover and am considering adding 3 Mortifiers to the list....

Should I put them in or will they be Focus fired exclusively due to being my only “armor” and not worth putting in?

@MacPhail, hadn’t thought of that, how do you farm CPs?

Lemondish wrote:

 ZergSmasher wrote:
I'm thinking about running a couple of melta BSS units in Repressors myself. I just hope Repressors don't get the Legends treatment. I doubt they will given that CA2019 listed them and the FAQ addressed them, so there's that.

We honestly have no idea what to expect from the FW book.

But if there was ever a unit that deserved to be retired, I honestly couldn't think of too many better examples than the Repressor.

Speak for yourself. I’ve been running them since early 2000s and have been a part of most lists I run. It’s the only Sisters unit in FW out of hundreds of units from every other faction. So if you wanna wish our only FW unit out of existence pls take it somewhere else.

 Jancoran wrote:
Got another game in w the Sisters against a tournament IG list. He was very confident that he was going to cook my goose.

Dude, that’s awesome!!

Any batrep? Or at least a little rundown of yours / his list.

Rogerio134134 wrote:
I've not had a chance to actually play a game with sisters yet but I'm just wondering where does the main killing power come from??

I'm going VH infantry heavy with 3 excorcists and some rets backed up by Celestine and some Zepharim if I can get them into the list. My main plan was to just throw all the infantry forward into objectives and sti there tanking wounds and firing back. Plan on using divine guidance and giving my BSS as many bolter weapons as possible to maximise rates of fire.
Then can use Celestine and the Zepharim as counter charge or and them off to cause mischief.

Problem I see is where does most of the killing power come from, are sisters with bolters enough to do serious damage to the enemy or would you need mortifiers etc to help out. Definitely taking 2 X Ret squads to boost firepower one with multi meltas the other with heavy bolters or flamers not sure!

Unfortunately our best killing weapon is a glass cannon in the Exorcist. From experience Sisters don’t have as much killing power as they do staying power. I’ve been using 30 Zephyrim backed up with Celestine to pick up “easy” kills, and there will always be kills of opportunity, but we’re gonna be very limited on what we can reliably take down until GW gives us more offensive tools to employ in our lists.

I do like =I= and I have used Hector Rex a few times in my list. He’s 20 pts more than Coteaz, but he can deep strike.
So In my 30 Zeph list he deepstikes where I need him and casts Terrify to shut down enemy overwatch. He has more psychic ability than Coteaz and 2+/3++ is powerful. Even with that I don’t take him often as he is 110 pts after all.

I agree to an extent, when I do take a Geminae it’s always just 1 to fill the Elite slot for a Brigade as cheap as possible. Oh and they’re 16 pts total per CA2019

Thing is this forum is to discuss competitive play regardless of if it’s in the context of ITC or not.

Sisters are a minority faction so let’s try to help each other get better regardless of what tournament rules we prefer.

I play ITC missions exclusively unless it’s a pickup game, so I’m here to discuss that but everyone has their preferences.

As an aside, talking about Legends, we all have opinions about what should and shouldn’t be allowed, but realistically it all comes down to your opponent or if it’s in a tournament setting what that tournament allows.

I think we should move on from here and discuss best tactics and unit synergy.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
@Zergsmasher - there’s just so much to cover in best units and synergies you’d really need to go through the entire thread or alternatively there’s some unit reviews on goonhammer and
1d4chan also is worth a read. I’ll give you my current tournament list and why it works...

Being as vehicles in this meta are easy kills, ive come up with a “fast” list that works pretty well for me. The key to this list is to keep hugging cover/ opponents and get close enough to use the meltas on the big stuff all the while tie things up with the fliers and Celestine.
It’s a fun list but takes some skill to pilot.

Sisters list 2000 pts
14 CP -2 CP

12 CP to start/ 2 MD per turn

Bloody Rose Vanguard, 1CP
160 Celestine (PL8)
515 3x 10 Zephyrim, 1x Zephyrim Banner (PL9 ea)

Valorous Heart Battalion, 5CP
54 WL Canoness, Rod, Power Sword, Bolter (PL3)
WL Trait- Imdomitable Belief; Relic- Book SL
45 Canoness, Chainsword, Relic- Emperor Wrath
WL Trait- Beacon of Faith (PL3)
375 5x 5 Battle Sisters, 2 each Meltaguns (PL4 ea)
249 3x 5 Seraphims, 4 Inferno Pistols (PL4 ea)
62 1x 5 Celestians, 1x Heavy Bolter, 1x SB (PL4)

Valorous Heart Battalion, 5CP
46 Canoness, Condemnor Bolter (PL3)
WL Trait- Imdomitable Belief; Relic- Book SL
38 Missionary
292 4x 5 Battle Sisters, 2 each Meltaguns (PL4ea)
174 3x 5 Dominions, 4 each Stormbolters (PL5ea)

Sacred Rite: +1 to advance/ charge rolls

I usually start with all 6 units of Seraphim and Zephyrim in reserve.
Dominions scout pregame 6” then advance (+1) to get into cover somewhere.
My units advance (+1) to get into cover and can still shoot meltas due to being assault weapons. My fly units tie things up and the Zephyrim are nasty on the charge. I always use miracle dice to get the charge in and the (+1) from sacred rites helps a lot.
Possible secondaries given up: I have 5 characters but I protect them so they’re not easy to get; between the 3 Zephyrim squads and Celestine I have 4 units that could give up Marked for Death, but I make that hard for them as well. Butchers Bill and Reaper are the big easies for this list.

Dominions are better now with Stormbolters due to their Blessed Bolts stratagem.

I run my Sister troop units with 2 meltaguns or bare.

If you could charge after advancing I’d give Argent Shroud a try. But being as foot Sisters want to be in cover as much as possible, I think the ability is going to be of limited use.

Does anyone else run their Imagifier in this setup...?

Imagifier with Book of St Lucius Relic, Indomitable Belief Trait, and two Tales (stoic and warrior).

This gives every unit within 9” a +1 to Inv Saves/ +1 to strength and ignore AP-2 weapons (I use Val Heart).

 Melissia wrote:
I mean, it's really useful. Just be aware of snipers, cause that imagifier would be a premium target.

I use a unit of Celestians as bodyguards.

 Melissia wrote:

 davidgr33n wrote:

 Melissia wrote:
I mean, it's really useful. Just be aware of snipers, cause that imagifier would be a premium target.

I use a unit of Celestians as bodyguards.

Fair enough. Should help them be a proper lynchpin.

I do sometimes wonder if keeping the Celestians is really worth it solely for bodyguard duty..? I mean, if someone wants to snipe at my characters they can go after the Celestian bodyguards with other shooting attacks and get rid of them before proceeding to snipe the characters. Competitive players will do that.

For those interested, new beta Mission rules for 2020 ITC are up...

https://docs.google.com/document/u/0/d/1ltQMdeDqYRXOhvdYT3dtUSji3AISvZRM8gDlhOXDaF8/mobilebasic

 Asmodai wrote:
Celestine is decent for getting Born for Greatness - though we'll probably have better options in most match-ups.

The new Recon and Behind Enemy Lines scoring multiple points for have multiple units at the end of player turn should be a good way to quickly rack up some secondary points when we drop in the Seraphim or Zephyrim.

Unfortunately “Behind Enemy Lines” can’t be score by units with Fly keyword.

Never saw this explicitly but can an Act of Faith hit roll be used in overwatch? For example to shoot a meltagun?

I agree.

The beauty of Bloody Rose is that even on basic Battle Sisters, they’ll get two melee attacks with a profile WS4 Str3 AP-1 D1. Or use their bolt pistols with one Str4 Ap-1 shot.

The core rules state that “In addition to their other weapons, all models are assumed to be equipped with a close combat weapon.”


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ERJAK wrote:
So the facebook team said SoB are getting new rules in one of the PA books. Speculation on what, in what book, and when?

My guess is end of march, a handful of new stratagems (which is actually kinda bad because of how CP starved we already are.) Relics (which we need even less) and a build your own sisters thing which probably won't be good.

It would be nice if we got a jump Canoness or some other type of fast moving support character.
Just wishing but I can.

 Asmodai wrote:

 MacPhail wrote:
My thinking has shifted from squad level to detachment level, and I'm curious as to everyone's thoughts. With roughly the same units and same points, for an all comers list, would you choose...

Valorous Heart Battalion with Exos and screen plus Bloody Rose Battalion with Seraphim, Dominions, and Celestians...

Valorous Heart Spearhead with Bloody Rose Brigade...

Valorous Heart Brigade with Bloody Rose Outrider?

I run VH Brigade with a BR Vanguard, so pretty close to the third option.

Ditto.

Today I tried out a new idea and thought I’d get some feedback.

Won 2 games, my list had a BR Vanguard which included 3x 10-man squads of Celestians in a blob, supported by Missionary, Canoness and Imagifier giving +1Str, +1A and ignore -1AP. Being guarded by Celestians the BR Characters passed their wounds on and couldn’t be nailed.

The beauty of the setup is for a much lower price than Zephyrim, on attack 10 buffed Celestians and Superior with chainsword hit at Str4 with 42 attacks, their close combat weapons are AP-1 (BRB under Choose Melee Weapon), Canoness buff gives re-roll all missed hits shooting/melee, and the BR Strat and the Celestian Strat can increase it even more. Add a power maul on the Superior for taking on bigger baddies.

In 2 games my 30 Celestian blob with buffs took down nearly double their number of orcs with nearly a squad surviving, and against Tau made it to the Tau gunline and nearly rolled up the entire line after breaking in.

The buffs can get stronger, for example bringing a VH Canoness with a Casket Relic to reduce the opponents T by 1. Or bringing a psyker Inquisitor to shut down overwatch.

Just seeing if anyone has used their Celestians in more of a melee role like this.

I use a VH Brigade with a BR Vanguard that is essentially my “Celestian Bomb.”

The Celestian bomb is 30 Celestians with support of:
Imagifier with stoic and warrior (ignores AP-1 and gives +1Str), Indomitable Belief WL trait (+1 Inv Save) and the Book of St Lucius (+3” aura range)

Canoness with Beneficience gives re-rolls of 1s to hit and has a ton of attacks (9A Str5 AP-3 D2 hitting on 2s) and can also Heroic Intervention

Missionary giving +1A

Remember that according to the BRB all models are assumed to have a generic CC weapon of Str user and AP0, so adding all buffs and Celestian stats with the Superior using a free chainsword we get for 30 Celestians:

126A at Str4 AP-1 which can then be buffed by Stratagems and a 3+/5++ saves

To my bomb I also add a unit of 9 Repentias to give them 4A at Str8 AP-4 and 5++/5+++ each

The beauty of Celestians is that they will still shoot all their weapons at BS3 with reroll all misses, so it’s not like they’re just a melee threat. I add cheap Stormbolters and sometimes combiplasmas to my Celestians.

The Imagifier and Canoness can’t be picked off by snipers due to the Bodyguard rule.

So this setup can cost between 430 to 550 points so it’s not cheap but you’d likely be paying for these units any way, so it’s one way of putting it all together for max punch power.

I just used this setup this past weekend and I can say it’s great for middle board control with Exos in the back and all my other Zephyrim and Seraphim and basic Sisters causing problems elsewhere.

tneva82 wrote:

 Orlanth wrote:

I dislike GW's formulaic approach to points values, they should take a holistic approach and work down instead. The supposed anti-tank option is a far better buy. Heavy 3d6 is nice, but frankly Heavy 3d3 is pretty damn good anti infantry. The only thing I will say for the incendiary rockets is that they amount to a fairly decent anti tank weapon if shooting a tank, wheras the anti tank rockets are total overkill unless fired at a super heavy or a titan. 1d4chan reported that the upgraded Exorcist has the capability to one shot a warhound without extreme dice rolls.
I am looking at the anti-tank missiles are Terminator-B-Gone, or for wasting squads of walkers. Any super heavy out there would priority kill the Exorcist before the Exorcist could return the disfavour. 48" range is escapable for a well placed super heavy.

5.8 wounds vs leman russ is hardly overkill. 1.555 wounds vs leman russ is hardly fairly decent.

48" reachesh pretty much anywhere on board by well placed exorcist. LOS is more of issue but if you can't see super heavy neither can he see you

He’s obviously NOT a math hammer guy

Melee sisters are surprisingly strong. It’s taken me some tweaks with several games but combine Celestians/Repentia and Zephyrim in BR with MD and Hand of the Emperor for mid table control and potent first strikes.

What’s our best way to eliminate Eliminators?

 MacPhail wrote:
I can imagine a couple small Celestian squads getting you through that difficult Turn 1, and Divine Intervention as a backup if the dice don't go your way or your opponent brought tons of Eliminators... although that strat on T1 will eat all your Miracle Dice and still maybe not be worth 2CP.

Protecting my Canonesses and Imagifiers is not a problem typically since I do use Celestians as a part of my core list, it’s more so keeping Celestine alive since I don’t bring Geminae. The eliminators also have that “get charged retreat 6” rule” that can be really annoying.

 Jancoran wrote:
Here comes another one, this time against Raven Guard.  Complete with pics and battle report!!!

https://www.facebook.com/groups/185402052000929/permalink/662266237647839/

Awesome batrep and congrats on the win.

We’re his Invictors able to get into your lines or did you kill them first? Also, epic charge by Celestine. I imagine 18” move and advance followed by a 12” charge to get into his Eliminators.

@Porphyrius

I like the list, the Celestine blob was what I had mentioned a few pages back and it’s very powerful, a couple of things I’d change.

On the Celestians I’d probably save the points and keep the Chainswords on the Superiors. You’ll get an extra attack and still get Str4 AP-1. The strength of the setup is massed attacks with re-rolls on all attacks (and wounds with the Strat).

The list is powerful up to 24” but will be punished by long range opponents. At a minimum I’d change out some regular meltas for Heavy Bolters in your BS squads. Your Celestian squads should get an HB at minimum as well- remember they can reroll ALL MISSES when within 6” of a Canoness.

You’ll miss Exorcists but the list is very mobile and should do well if you can close the gap quickly against long range lists. Your Sephs and Zephs should help you tie up some of those if you can shoot off their screens with long- range HBs.

Looks very similar to my list and I think you’ll do well with it.

I like Repentia and have included them in my Celestian bomb list. One unit of 9 would be optimal and no need for a RSuperior. I line them up in the aura bubble behind the Celestians and use them as a threat against big boss types in case they get close. In the bubble they should have at least a 5++/5+++.

That said, I don’t think they’re optimal as we really need more ranged threats, so those are the points I started using to buy heavy bolters with and spreading them throughout my list.

I think the Celestian bomb is great but as I’ve tinkered with my list over the months I’ve more and more tended toward Mortifiers as my close combat threat choice and have kept the rest of my list as pure VH for the defensive buffs.

Great article for dissecting Sisters strengths and weaknesses. A must read...

https://www.goonhammer.com/start-competing-sisters-of-battle-tactics/