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Made in us
Confessor Of Sins





Tacoma, WA, USA

You mean beside the obvious "there isn't space not the frames" for the additional options?
   
Made in us
Preacher of the Emperor






I appreciate the insights. So what’s the best way — or the least bad way — to run mech Sisters now? 10-girl BSS with combi-flamer, two meltaguns, and maybe imagifer-plus-cherub in Rhino?
And what Order works best for mech? I have a soft spot for Argent Shroud, and I’m pretty sure vehicles can use the advance-and-fire special ability (still wrapping my head around vehicles using the same rules as other models, though it’s a hugely welcome simplification), but I really doubt that’s optimal....

BURN IT DOWN BURN IT DOWN BABY BURN IT DOWN

 Psienesis wrote:
Well, if you check out Sister Sydney's homebrew/expansion rules, you'll find all kinds of units the Sisters could have, that fit with the theme of the Sisters (as a tabletop army) perfectly well, and are damn-near-perfectly balanced.

I’m updating that fandex now & I’m eager for feedback on new home-brew units for the Sisters: Sororitas Bikers, infiltrators & Novices, tanks, flyers, characters, superheavies, Frateris Militia, and now Confessors and Battle Conclave characters
My Novice Ginevra stories start with Bolter B-Word Privileges 
   
Made in fi
Locked in the Tower of Amareo





Vdlorous heart to make vehicles ridiculously tough

2024 painted/bought: 109/109 
   
Made in us
Preacher of the Emperor





Denver, CO, USA

 SisterSydney wrote:
I appreciate the insights. So what’s the best way — or the least bad way — to run mech Sisters now? 10-girl BSS with combi-flamer, two meltaguns, and maybe imagifer-plus-cherub in Rhino?
And what Order works best for mech? I have a soft spot for Argent Shroud, and I’m pretty sure vehicles can use the advance-and-fire special ability (still wrapping my head around vehicles using the same rules as other models, though it’s a hugely welcome simplification), but I really doubt that’s optimal....


My play is strictly semi-comp, so take this with a grain of salt. I run 2-3 Rhinos opposite 2-3 Exos to force my opponent to make choices. I like 2 units per transport, one shooty and one choppy, to have options. Combos I've used without making a claim to their utility: melee Canoness plus Preacher and Imagifier with 7 Celestians, heavy flamer Retributers plus max-melta BSS, stormbolter Doms plus melta BSS... even double BSS with maxed melta to unload six meltaguns on turn 2. And don't forget a Rhino's other useful roles, blocking traffic lanes and LoS, evacuating lone survivors to deny points, and most importantly, soaking overwatch for your Bloody Rose Canoness.

   
Made in us
Grim Dark Angels Interrogator-Chaplain






A Protoss colony world

I'm thinking about running a couple of melta BSS units in Repressors myself. I just hope Repressors don't get the Legends treatment. I doubt they will given that CA2019 listed them and the FAQ addressed them, so there's that.

My armies (re-counted and updated on 11/1/23, including modeled wargear options):
Dark Angels: ~15000 Astra Militarum: ~1200 | Adeptus Custodes: ~1900 | Imperial Knights: ~2000 | Sisters of Battle: ~3500 | Leagues of Votann: ~1200 | Tyranids: ~2600 | Stormcast Eternals: ~5000
Check out my P&M Blogs: ZergSmasher's P&M Blog | Imperial Knights blog | Board Games blog | Total models painted in 2023: 40 | Total models painted in 2024: 7 | Current main painting project: Dark Angels
 Mr_Rose wrote:
Who doesn’t love crazy mutant squawk-puppies? Eh? Nobody, that’s who.
 
   
Made in gb
Esteemed Veteran Space Marine



Ottawa

 ZergSmasher wrote:
I'm thinking about running a couple of melta BSS units in Repressors myself. I just hope Repressors don't get the Legends treatment. I doubt they will given that CA2019 listed them and the FAQ addressed them, so there's that.


We honestly have no idea what to expect from the FW book.

But if there was ever a unit that deserved to be retired, I honestly couldn't think of too many better examples than the Repressor.
   
Made in us
Sword-Bearing Inquisitorial Crusader




TX, US

Lemondish wrote:
 ZergSmasher wrote:
I'm thinking about running a couple of melta BSS units in Repressors myself. I just hope Repressors don't get the Legends treatment. I doubt they will given that CA2019 listed them and the FAQ addressed them, so there's that.


We honestly have no idea what to expect from the FW book.

But if there was ever a unit that deserved to be retired, I honestly couldn't think of too many better examples than the Repressor.


Speak for yourself. I’ve been running them since early 2000s and have been a part of most lists I run. It’s the only Sisters unit in FW out of hundreds of units from every other faction. So if you wanna wish our only FW unit out of existence pls take it somewhere else.

 
   
Made in gb
Esteemed Veteran Space Marine



Ottawa

 davidgr33n wrote:
Lemondish wrote:
 ZergSmasher wrote:
I'm thinking about running a couple of melta BSS units in Repressors myself. I just hope Repressors don't get the Legends treatment. I doubt they will given that CA2019 listed them and the FAQ addressed them, so there's that.


We honestly have no idea what to expect from the FW book.

But if there was ever a unit that deserved to be retired, I honestly couldn't think of too many better examples than the Repressor.


Speak for yourself. I’ve been running them since early 2000s and have been a part of most lists I run. It’s the only Sisters unit in FW out of hundreds of units from every other faction. So if you wanna wish our only FW unit out of existence pls take it somewhere else.


Don't get me wrong. I'm on your side here. I want all the unit options we can get, but legends does not say anything about denying you the right to play with a model you have. In fact, it straight up ensures that you absolutely can play it if you have it.

But the reality is that this is a unit that does not currently have a model. That is not a good place for rules to exist for a variety of reasons, as far as competitive play is concerned. My preferred outcome is that there is a model re-released or redesigned. Until then, I firmly believe there's no place for a model in competitive play that cannot be acquired through legitimate means.

I don't care if you can get Chinese recasts. I don't care if you can proxy. I don't care if you have them today. A unit with no available model has no place, and the competitive community has accepted that for Legends. It is inevitable that they accept it for FW's retired back catalog, should we desire to be exactly as consistent in our approach as we often wish GW to be.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/02/09 03:07:48


 
   
Made in us
Shas'o Commanding the Hunter Kadre




Olympia, WA

Got another game in w the Sisters against a tournament IG list. He was very confident that he was going to cook my goose.

[Thumb - Screenshot_20200208-211828_ITC Battles.jpg]

This message was edited 5 times. Last update was at 2020/02/09 05:22:07


Hold out bait to entice the enemy. Feign disorder, and then crush him.
-Sun Tzu, the Art of War
http://www.40kunorthodoxy.blogspot.com

7th Ambassadorial Grand Tournament Registration: http://40kambassadors.com/register.php 
   
Made in us
Sword-Bearing Inquisitorial Crusader




TX, US

 Jancoran wrote:
Got another game in w the Sisters against a tournament IG list. He was very confident that he was going to cook my goose.



Dude, that’s awesome!!

Any batrep? Or at least a little rundown of yours / his list.

 
   
Made in us
Shas'o Commanding the Hunter Kadre




Olympia, WA

 davidgr33n wrote:
 Jancoran wrote:
Got another game in w the Sisters against a tournament IG list. He was very confident that he was going to cook my goose.



Dude, that’s awesome!!

Any batrep? Or at least a little rundown of yours / his list.


Basics? Emperors wrath battery (of course) with the trimmings. He has several command Leman Russ's, including that crazy pants relic battle cannon. Scions to drop on my face w plasma, lots of body shielding(ig). He had several assassins to gank my characters and get around me. He took bullgryns powered by a psyker which is always tough to kill. Shot my whole army at them and only killed 4, in the second round i think it was. Thats the basic outline as well as I can remember.

My list is the same ive been using. Ill slap it here.
Spoiler:


++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Imperium - Adepta Sororitas) [34 PL, 737pts] ++

+ No Force Org Slot +

Order Convictions: Order: Valorous Heart

+ HQ +

Canoness [3 PL, 54pts]: Boltgun, Power sword, Relic: Litanies of Faith, Rod of Office, Warlord, Warlord Trait: 5. Indomitable Belief

Canoness [3 PL, 57pts]: Boltgun, Chainsword, Null Rod

+ Troops +

Battle Sister Squad [8 PL, 188pts]: Incensor Cherub
. 11x Battle Sister
. Battle Sister w/ Simulacrum: Simulacrum Imperialis
. Battle Sister w/ Special or Heavy Weapon: Meltagun
. Battle Sister w/ Special Weapon: Meltagun
. Sister Superior: Bolt pistol, Combi-melta

Battle Sister Squad [8 PL, 188pts]: Incensor Cherub
. 11x Battle Sister
. Battle Sister w/ Simulacrum: Simulacrum Imperialis
. Battle Sister w/ Special or Heavy Weapon: Meltagun
. Battle Sister w/ Special Weapon: Meltagun
. Sister Superior: Bolt pistol, Combi-melta

Battle Sister Squad [8 PL, 170pts]: Incensor Cherub
. 9x Battle Sister
. Battle Sister w/ Simulacrum: Simulacrum Imperialis
. Battle Sister w/ Special or Heavy Weapon: Meltagun
. Battle Sister w/ Special Weapon: Meltagun
. Sister Superior: Bolt pistol, Combi-melta

+ Elites +

Dialogus [2 PL, 35pts]

Imagifier [2 PL, 45pts]: Tale of the Stoic

++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Imperium - Adepta Sororitas) [38 PL, -2CP, 585pts] ++

+ No Force Org Slot +

Arco-Flagellants [6 PL, 78pts]: Endurant
. 5x Arco Flagellant

Open the Reliquaries [-1CP]: Additional Relics of the Ecclesiarchy

Order Convictions: Order: Argent Shroud

+ HQ +

Canoness [3 PL, -1CP, 53pts]: Bolt pistol, Brazier of Holy Fire, Chainsword, Heroine in the Making, Warlord Trait: 4. Beacon of Faith

Missionary [2 PL, 38pts]
. Bolt Pistol and Shotgun

+ Troops +

Battle Sister Squad [4 PL, 45pts]
. 4x Battle Sister
. Sister Superior: Bolt pistol, Boltgun

Battle Sister Squad [4 PL, 45pts]
. 4x Battle Sister
. Sister Superior: Bolt pistol, Boltgun

Battle Sister Squad [4 PL, 45pts]
. 4x Battle Sister
. Sister Superior: Bolt pistol, Boltgun

+ Fast Attack +

Dominion Squad [7 PL, 98pts]: Incensor Cherub
. 2x Dominion
. Dominion Superior: Bolt pistol, Boltgun
. Dominion w/ Simulacrum: Simulacrum Imperialis
. Dominion w/ Special Weapon: Storm bolter
. Dominion w/ Special Weapon: Storm bolter
. Dominion w/ Special Weapon: Storm bolter
. Dominion w/ Special Weapon: Storm bolter

+ Heavy Support +

Retributor Squad [8 PL, 183pts]: 2x Armourium Cherub
. 2x Retributor
. Retributor Superior: Bolt pistol, Boltgun
. Retributor w/ Heavy Weapon: Multi-melta
. Retributor w/ Heavy Weapon: Multi-melta
. Retributor w/ Heavy Weapon: Multi-melta
. Retributor w/ Heavy Weapon: Multi-melta
. Retributor w/ Simulacrum: Simulacrum Imperialis

++ Spearhead Detachment +1CP (Imperium - Adepta Sororitas) [32 PL, 678pts] ++

+ No Force Org Slot +

Order Convictions: Order: Valorous Heart

+ HQ +

Celestine [8 PL, 160pts]

+ Heavy Support +

Exorcist [8 PL, 176pts]: Exorcist Missile Launcher, Heavy bolter, Hunter-killer missile

Exorcist [8 PL, 172pts]: Exorcist Missile Launcher, Heavy bolter, Storm bolter

Exorcist [8 PL, 170pts]: Exorcist Missile Launcher, Heavy bolter

++ Total: [104 PL, -2CP, 2,000pts] ++

Created with BattleScribe (https://battlescribe.net)


Round 1 i moved up with all haste. Moved and fired exorcists. Killed the relic Battlecannon but it took two exorcists to do it. Nearly ganked his wyvern. Celestine leaped 18" forward and crushed a guard squad. Done

He levelled his fusilade into an exorcist and killed it, and killed Celestine. She got better. Used emperors wrath to stop my flagellents from charging and protect his bullgryns.. Smart

Celestine leaped away from the bullgryns who killed her and smashed some Guardsman. Everything moved to force ds units out from my core and objectives. Then red squad charged the bullgryns just for free movement, locked them up. But morale from shooting losses killed two and they would now be able to escape my hugs. He lost another Leman Russ and his wyvern and disparate units as the march continued.the vindicare aasassin died to multimetas, after popping the valorous heart strat.

His drops showed up. I was surrounded and multiple objectives at risk. He made his charges while escaping his trapped units from my grasp. Eversor was mooost displeased to learn that he is relatively ineffective with 8 attacks against Sisters of Battle. The callidus was equally vexed when forced to settle for killing three Sisters. The culexus was similarly vexed by the fortitude of the sisters. No assassin. Failed in its mission to charge me, to his credit however. Another exorcist died and my retirbutors did too for their insolence as they were all marked for death. The scions saw to that. Normal guardsmen plinked away at pink squad and his talarn tank showed up from seemingly nowhere and opened fire as well.

Pink squad charged the ig after shooting them, locking up the tallarn tank on my right. We shot and charged everything in sight. Made one error and culexus made me pay. Got too close. Oops. But overall, the arco-flagellents blendered an assassin, ig squad and all but killed a tripointed bullgryn. Red squad killed the eversor, which exploded nsear like...6 characters. Ouch. Kinda hilarious. Gotta remember that... at this stage i was knee deep in ichor. Dominion jumped the ig, shooting and hacking them and locking them as best they could.

His basilisk had a good round and such but very little could fire and almost everything was dead or locked. Mostly just pulling outta combat and trying to blast my exorcist. His last assassin did wreck anargent shroud squad tho.

The rest of the game was clean up. I destroyed everything and had pretty much travelled all the way across the board with almost everthing I had. Grar. Twas a tabling.





This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/02/09 07:45:34


Hold out bait to entice the enemy. Feign disorder, and then crush him.
-Sun Tzu, the Art of War
http://www.40kunorthodoxy.blogspot.com

7th Ambassadorial Grand Tournament Registration: http://40kambassadors.com/register.php 
   
Made in fi
Locked in the Tower of Amareo





 davidgr33n wrote:
Lemondish wrote:
 ZergSmasher wrote:
I'm thinking about running a couple of melta BSS units in Repressors myself. I just hope Repressors don't get the Legends treatment. I doubt they will given that CA2019 listed them and the FAQ addressed them, so there's that.


We honestly have no idea what to expect from the FW book.

But if there was ever a unit that deserved to be retired, I honestly couldn't think of too many better examples than the Repressor.


Speak for yourself. I’ve been running them since early 2000s and have been a part of most lists I run. It’s the only Sisters unit in FW out of hundreds of units from every other faction. So if you wanna wish our only FW unit out of existence pls take it somewhere else.


Seeing they don't sell model it definitely fits definition of legends so if they retire any units either they release new kit or it is retired

2024 painted/bought: 109/109 
   
Made in gb
Fresh-Faced New User




UK

Thanks for the batrep Janc.

I noticed you used arco-flags. they seem to be quite good and are maybe a sleeper unit. I was thinking of hiding them behind the exorcists, moving them up or using them as counter charge.

Looking at the IG list, if I remember correctly Basilisks have indirect fire - the Acro-Flags would seem very vulnerable to this. Did the guy not know what the AF did - since I noticed in the batrep he did not target them.

Also I've heard of people using an inquisitor to put a 5 up invuln on them in addition to their native 5 up FNP. Point for point at least this makes them quite durable. So what are your thoughts on the AF, how did you use them and would they be viable against someone with TF Cannons?
   
Made in us
Shas'o Commanding the Hunter Kadre




Olympia, WA

 Gareth_Evans wrote:
Thanks for the batrep Janc.

I noticed you used arco-flags. they seem to be quite good and are maybe a sleeper unit. I was thinking of hiding them behind the exorcists, moving them up or using them as counter charge.

Looking at the IG list, if I remember correctly Basilisks have indirect fire - the Acro-Flags would seem very vulnerable to this. Did the guy not know what the AF did - since I noticed in the batrep he did not target them.

Also I've heard of people using an inquisitor to put a 5 up invuln on them in addition to their native 5 up FNP. Point for point at least this makes them quite durable. So what are your thoughts on the AF, how did you use them and would they be viable against someone with TF Cannons?


You're welcome for the batrep.

I had Big Game Hunter and Head Hunter. He had Command tanks and he also had marked the Exorcists for Death As well as my Retributors. Because of that, it made killing the Exorcists kind of a big deal to him. Lot of points to be saved or made with their death. As he had opted to put a lot of punch into deep Strike, he needed the Basilisks to kill the Exorcist. since I had hurt his Wyvern, he used the Wyvern to slow my Arcos and kinda trap them in a building for a round (again, Emperors wrath ability). So he knew they were an issue and he did accord them respect but had to kill what he could for those sweet sweet points.

in future rounds I was all over him and his tanks were in danger, so he had to kill those melta-guns coming for him. It was at that point the best of poor options. I was EXTREMELY aggressive. I mean all three of my basic Sisters squads were charging everything they could lay hands on whenever they could, even Bullgryns. Lol.

An inquisitor does represent an interesting add to a LOT of armies. Eisenhorn can add 1 to an existing Invulnerable save. That can couple with things that provide them. I'm not certain what you are specifically referring to as far as getting them a 5+ invul so clue me in there.

As for how to use them against Thunderfire cannons, that's a whole other ball of wax. The simple truth is that Thunderfire Cannons are a hard counter to a n awful lot in the game. Snipers are the answer and Sisters don't have them.

But I look at that question that you ask and it becomes two things, not one, for me.

First, and most important is that if you look at my list I posted, you can see that target priority is what protected my Arco-Flagellents and the threat saturation I caused was enough to protect them. Unlike some suggestions that have been made here, I am really REALLY mobile with my force and I'm certainly not just foolishly exposing the Arco-Flagellents. I think that's been true in all 11 games so far. We know that the Emperor protects. That's a given. But I think priority protects even better. There are a great deal many threatening items right up close and personal, VERY quickly, in this army. So do they want to kill SIX Arco-Flagellents, as good as they are? Or do they want to kill the Exorcists... the buck wild Multimelta Squad? The deadly anti-Primaris Storm Bolter unit? Perhaps 58 Sisters? St. Celestine is um... literally in their face and generally charging turn one so how about her? At some point you can only do so much and so the Thunderfires will have to decide where best to spent their time.

The second piece I mention is that you kind of have to ask yourself: isn't the Thunderfire Cannons trying to kill the Arco-Flagellents kind of a win for you? I mean I think it is. It means they aren't killing the dudes on the objectives. So that's pretty good for held more. That means they aren't shooting the ravening horde of Sisters bearing down on them. That means no chipping of the Exorcists is happening... The Retributors and Dominion may well be able to inflict heavy losses because the Arco-Flagellents are getting bombed. So does it really matter? Also, since the Arco-flagellents are unimpressed wit hthe STR and APof weapons like that, it just comes down to math: hitting on 2's, it takes over 30 shots from those cannons to kill all 6 man squad. Each cannon averages 8 shots before firing twice strat is used. So you're going to need two turns of Thunderfire to kill them. Isn't that a bit of a win? Now imagine if you took 9. I ran out of points or I totes would.

So I don't know how much fire he REALLY could have poured on them. The Wyvern would have been a good idea but I nerfed that early and he effectively nerfed me with it (Emperors Wrath ability) so i think he did what he could to neutralize them. He just couldn't do more because I killed him.

So my answer to you in a nutshell then would be: you must out-tactic the enemy andconsider the Arco-Flagllents in context. For some lists the Arco-s will just be an easy call and a wise target for the enemy. When not FORCED to make a SPECIFIC decision in war, it's dealers choice. But when you FORCE decisions on the foe, then you have something. Now you have the advantage. Because now there may BE no "good" choices. Sorry to wax philosophical about it but its true. There is a definitive value to that advice in Warhammer 40K, I feel.

The Sisters made top 20 at LVO. that is no mean feat and it's not an accident. Consider how he did it: threat saturation. He lured enemies to attack things that didn't TRULY matter to him in the early going and then tightened the noose later, saturating them with so much that they couldn't escape that he forced ALL choice to be bad choices. Exorcists were just red herrings.

This message was edited 5 times. Last update was at 2020/02/09 18:07:33


Hold out bait to entice the enemy. Feign disorder, and then crush him.
-Sun Tzu, the Art of War
http://www.40kunorthodoxy.blogspot.com

7th Ambassadorial Grand Tournament Registration: http://40kambassadors.com/register.php 
   
Made in gb
Fresh-Faced New User




UK

Thanks for the detailed reply. The ability to give a 5 up invuln is

Ordo Malleus – Power Through Knowledge – WC6: Give an IMPERIUM BIKER or INFANTRY unit a 5++ till your next psychic phase.

I got this from goonhammer's review on Index Inquisition.

There's a lot for me to think about in what you've said - list building really is some sort of art form! I'm intrigued with the large 15 model BSS squads, most people have been discussing MSU, but that gives up a lot of points, and I guess the durability of 15 model melta squads makes them a more credible threat in the end. Did you use the strat to disengage a lot? You mentioned charging and wrapping to move up (again easier with big squads).

Also I was thinking for 1 CP it would be possible to give an imagifer +1 strength as well, thus boosting the 15 model squads to 4 STR, would this be worth it?
   
Made in fi
Locked in the Tower of Amareo





MSU only gives lots of points in kill point missions. In CA(which is closest to true 40k) it's less of issue. Sure ITC might screw over MSU but then again ITC is bunch of house rules that screws balance anyway and sob's will be screwed anyway in ITC with marine fest around and needing indirect weapons more than normal(which sisters have...none)

2024 painted/bought: 109/109 
   
Made in us
Grim Dark Angels Interrogator-Chaplain






A Protoss colony world

Interesting to see you doing well with an Argent Shroud detachment. I've only really thought about combos of Valorous Heart and Bloody Rose myself, but then that's because I REALLY want to run a big Repentia bomb. On that note, here's my latest list idea:
Spoiler:
Battalion: Valorous Heart
Canoness: Plasma Pistol, Power Sword, Rod of Office, Warlord (Beacon of Faith)
Celestine
5 Battle Sisters: 2x Storm Bolter
5 Battle Sisters: 2x Storm Bolter
5 Battle Sisters: No upgrades
Imagifier: Tale of the Stoic, Book of St. Lucius
Exorcist: Missile Launcher
Exorcist: Missile Launcher
Exorcist: Missile Launcher
Battalion: Bloody Rose
Canoness: Bolt Pistol, Benificence, Heroine in the Making (Indomitable Belief)
Missionary
10 Battle Sisters: 2x Meltagun, Combimelta, Simulacrum, Incensor Cherub
10 Battle Sisters: 2x Meltagun, Combimelta, Simulacrum, Incensor Cherub
5 Battle Sisters: 2x Storm Bolter
Imagifier: Tale of the Warrior
8 Repentia
8 Repentia
Repentia Superior
Repressor: 2x Heavy Flamer
Repressor: 2x Heavy Flamer
Rhino
Rhino
Total 1999 points

Basically I'd put the two big BR melta units in the Repressors, and put the Repentia and characters in the Rhinos. They would move up along with Celestine as a big nasty deathball, getting out of their vehicles as necessary to deal with stuff. Celestine and the Canoness can combine their auras to give the Repentia (and the regular BR sisters) a 4++. Once the melta units disembark, they can use their cherubs and Simulacrums to get the miracle dice train rolling for max damage. The VH stuff pretty much all sits back on objectives and blasts things with the Exorcists. My main concern is that in ITC play this list gives up easy Big Game Hunter and Headhunter, but I wanted to have some fast moving things that can help control the board a bit rather than sitting back in a gunline, hence the mechanized elements.

My armies (re-counted and updated on 11/1/23, including modeled wargear options):
Dark Angels: ~15000 Astra Militarum: ~1200 | Adeptus Custodes: ~1900 | Imperial Knights: ~2000 | Sisters of Battle: ~3500 | Leagues of Votann: ~1200 | Tyranids: ~2600 | Stormcast Eternals: ~5000
Check out my P&M Blogs: ZergSmasher's P&M Blog | Imperial Knights blog | Board Games blog | Total models painted in 2023: 40 | Total models painted in 2024: 7 | Current main painting project: Dark Angels
 Mr_Rose wrote:
Who doesn’t love crazy mutant squawk-puppies? Eh? Nobody, that’s who.
 
   
Made in ca
Twisted Trueborn with Blaster



Ottawa

How viable do you think the following unit would be, in a Valorous Heart army?

7 Sisters
Combi-flamer and hand flamer for the Sister Superior
1 flamer
1 multi-melta


I'm considering filling my Core slots with such a unit, because it adds up to exactly 100 pts (for easy list-building), has enough ablative wounds to protect the expensive multi-melta, and is deadly on overwatch thanks to the flamers. In a protracted close combat, the Sister Superior's dirt-cheap hand flamer adds some punch. These units will serve mostly as hard-to-dislodge objective-sitters (2+ save in cover, ignoring AP -1, melt your face off on overwatch), while Exorcists and Mortifiers handle most of the killing.

Thematically, I like a holy army having units of 7. (And yes, I know 7 is also the number of Nurgle. Shut up. How would you even happen to know such a thing, unless you were a heretic?)

.

Cadians, Sisters of Battle (Argent Shroud), Drukhari (Obsidian Rose)

Read my Drukhari short stories: Chronicles of Commorragh 
   
Made in us
Humming Great Unclean One of Nurgle





In My Lab

2d6 S4 AP0 D1 hits is not deadly Overwatch.

Clocks for the clockmaker! Cogs for the cog throne! 
   
Made in us
Monster-Slaying Daemonhunter





-Guardsman- wrote:
How viable do you think the following unit would be, in a Valorous Heart army?

7 Sisters
Combi-flamer and hand flamer for the Sister Superior
1 flamer
1 multi-melta


I'm considering filling my Core slots with such a unit, because it adds up to exactly 100 pts (for easy list-building), has enough ablative wounds to protect the expensive multi-melta, and is deadly on overwatch thanks to the flamers. In a protracted close combat, the Sister Superior's dirt-cheap hand flamer adds some punch. These units will serve mostly as hard-to-dislodge objective-sitters (2+ save in cover, ignoring AP -1, melt your face off on overwatch), while Exorcists and Mortifiers handle most of the killing.

Thematically, I like a holy army having units of 7. (And yes, I know 7 is also the number of Nurgle. Shut up. How would you even happen to know such a thing, unless you were a heretic?)

.


As somebody said, the flamers aren't really that useful in overwatch, and the hand flamer is a total waste of points. If you're sitting in the back, I'd take a heavy bolter over a multimelta for the range, and if you're moving forward I'd take a meltagun so you can move and fire without penalty or advance and fire since you're going to be going that way anyway and the melta is appreciably cheaper.

Guardsmen, hear me! Cadia may lie in ruin, but her proud people do not! For each brother and sister who gave their lives to Him as martyrs, we will reap a vengeance fiftyfold! Cadia may be no more, but will never be forgotten; our foes shall tremble in fear at the name, for their doom shall come from the barrels of Cadian guns, fired by Cadian hands! Forward, for vengeance and retribution, in His name and the names of our fallen comrades! 
   
Made in ca
Twisted Trueborn with Blaster



Ottawa

 JNAProductions wrote:
2d6 S4 AP0 D1 hits is not deadly Overwatch.

Maybe not against MEQ, but it would perform well against Tyranids, Orks and all varieties of space elves.


 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:
and the hand flamer is a total waste of points.

Point. Singular.

It's mostly for use in close combat, against the aforementioned Tyranids, Orks and space elves. Easy to remove from my list if I have to.

I do like melta guns as well, but given how short-ranged they are, I would only give them to a transport-mounted unit.

.

Cadians, Sisters of Battle (Argent Shroud), Drukhari (Obsidian Rose)

Read my Drukhari short stories: Chronicles of Commorragh 
   
Made in us
Preacher of the Emperor





Denver, CO, USA

So I'm going to go look for a pickup game at the local GW storefront next weekend. I mostly play 2k, but the store advises lists at 1000 or 1500 due to space and time limits.

Anybody have big ideas for those point values? I imagine a single Battalion at 1k and maybe Battalion plus something at 1.5k. Should I stick to a single Order in these smaller games?What's a reasonable number of Exorcists for a casual game? Should I abandon mech altogether for a smaller table and go for bodies? All ideas welcome!

   
Made in us
Monster-Slaying Daemonhunter





 MacPhail wrote:
So I'm going to go look for a pickup game at the local GW storefront next weekend. I mostly play 2k, but the store advises lists at 1000 or 1500 due to space and time limits.

Anybody have big ideas for those point values? I imagine a single Battalion at 1k and maybe Battalion plus something at 1.5k. Should I stick to a single Order in these smaller games?What's a reasonable number of Exorcists for a casual game? Should I abandon mech altogether for a smaller table and go for bodies? All ideas welcome!


Uh, 1 battalion probably, maybe 2 or a brigade at 1.5k.
I'd only break order at that scale if you have enough units that want a specific order trait separate from the bulk of your army.
3 Exorcists. Everything gets more resilient the smaller the game is.
Your call. Right now, horde sisters is good and probably the way to go [ungh. I want to be AS or BR for the advances and the melee, but like there's so much AP-2 Marine everywhere I can't not pick VH], but going heavy on mech targets gets more brutal the smaller the game size.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/02/10 08:08:37


Guardsmen, hear me! Cadia may lie in ruin, but her proud people do not! For each brother and sister who gave their lives to Him as martyrs, we will reap a vengeance fiftyfold! Cadia may be no more, but will never be forgotten; our foes shall tremble in fear at the name, for their doom shall come from the barrels of Cadian guns, fired by Cadian hands! Forward, for vengeance and retribution, in His name and the names of our fallen comrades! 
   
Made in us
Shas'o Commanding the Hunter Kadre




Olympia, WA

 Gareth_Evans wrote:
Thanks for the detailed reply. The ability to give a 5 up invuln is

Ordo Malleus – Power Through Knowledge – WC6: Give an IMPERIUM BIKER or INFANTRY unit a 5++ till your next psychic phase.

I got this from goonhammer's review on Index Inquisition.

There's a lot for me to think about in what you've said - list building really is some sort of art form! I'm intrigued with the large 15 model BSS squads, most people have been discussing MSU, but that gives up a lot of points, and I guess the durability of 15 model melta squads makes them a more credible threat in the end. Did you use the strat to disengage a lot? You mentioned charging and wrapping to move up (again easier with big squads).

Also I was thinking for 1 CP it would be possible to give an imagifer +1 strength as well, thus boosting the 15 model squads to 4 STR, would this be worth it?


Thank you for the explanation. Helpful!

So my plan was to use the strat to fall back with Red Squad after charging the Bullgryns, as you surmised. Unfortunately, when the time came, his Assassin was using that thing that drains your CP and I just couldn't; so i settled for falling back normally and then letting the Arco's get in there. it didn't affect the outcome but yes, that was supposed to be the plan. It is what it is though. He kinda put me in a resource pickle. Oh and BTW, Sisters don't do hardly anything in melee, as if that were news. I think i missed 12 out of 14 to wound rolls even with the Missionary and Canoness helping us to hit. Lol. Hilarious. I mostly did it for free movement. I don't find fault in wanting to get them +1 STR for that reason. I would just wonder why you'd want to spend 40 points on them for a combat they will likely lose anyways. Let them lose. it's fine as long as they do what you need them to. Sisters never really run anyways. They're dead or steadfast. now if you were buffing Repentia, sure. Different entirely. They need that str boost.

As for the list building being an art form, I suppose it kind of is. i think that the tactics are more important. If you know what you need to accomplish per se, and what you want your enemy to DO, then finding units who can do that is easier than math hammering things to death and taking "the best" units ten times, and THEN figuring out what you're going to do with them later (which I see a lot of online and in person). i say this as one who is notably good at math. I know what the best units ARE but I also know that building units like that isn't always best. Some can force you to do ONLY one thing. I don't like that. I like it when the enemy really cannot cut the head off of the snake, because there really isn't one.

My lists may look different because I'm specifically trying to choreograph certain things and then I find the unit for whatever that is with reliability in mind. I didn't use Crisis suits in 5th, 6th and 7th editions hardly at all in my tau list for that reason. I wanted to do a certain thing and also get the opponent to do a certain thing. The units it took to illicit the enemies responses and for me to be able to react how i wanted to just didn't find the "best units" to be the best FIT for a very long time. Took a lot of flakk online for my T'au lists but at end of day... I mean... You couldn't argue with results, even if you could argue with me, ya know? I still have only ever played Triple tide once.

Sisters are the same way. I've viewed them differently all along pretty much from 4th-8th. They have been very good to me even when they sucked on paper. Tons o tournament wins over the years with them. True story: I won two tournaments i played in after the silly White Dwarf "codex" dropped for sisters, using one of literally every unit in the codex. Hand on the Bible, that's true. Just made an army list with one of everything and gave it a whirl. Penitent Engine, and even the Sororitas Command Squad which was MUCH maligned here on DakkaDakka. Celestians. All of it. It was so fun.

The reason I say that is to say this: The list can't win it for you. make a smart list, a clever list, make sure you have the tools you need in order to carry out your PLAN, but also don't buy into the idea that you cant win if you don't take "the meta list". Tilt your head to the left, and see things from another perspective. Force yourself to try to find the way THAT something WILL work instead of always grabbing the low hanging fruit of conventional wisdom that it won't.

Just food for thought.


Hold out bait to entice the enemy. Feign disorder, and then crush him.
-Sun Tzu, the Art of War
http://www.40kunorthodoxy.blogspot.com

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Made in us
Calm Celestian





Atlanta

@MacPhail

I run a 1250pt Ebon Chalice
Spoiler:
Battalion

Canoness warlord with Terrible Knowledge, rod of office

Canoness heroine in the making with Indomitable Belief and Null Rod and relic Iron Suplice

2 units of 5 sisters with 2 SBs
1 unit of 6 with HB

Hospitaller
Repentia Superior
7 Repentia

1 unit of 5 Seraphim with handflamers

2 Exorcists
Mortifier with flamer and flails

Immolator with flamers
Immolator with MM
Rhino

and lastly a battle Sanctum (I've been allowed to use a Bastion until the official model comes out)


Now I don't think this is too competitive but it does have 5 tanks and only 31 bodies. There's anti tank, anti infantry and with the seraphim and/or Ebon Chalice strat you can clear units off objectives. The Immolator and rhino allow the characters a choice to not put all the eggs in one basket. The exorcist/ Rod Canoness and HB sisters provide a small fire base for an objective while not making the list a sit and turtle. The repentia and mortifier mean you're coming at them so they have to decide the exorcist or having some killer melee in their line. Repentia will shred Primaris and dent or kill tanks. The Terrible knowledge trait means you can have 8 or even 10 CPs if you roll well. Maybe this list is more competitive than I thought. There's flexibility in where you put the canoness, either helping hold an objective or pushing with the repentia to give 5++ before 5+++.

My Sisters of Battle Thread
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/783053.page
 
   
Made in us
Shas'o Commanding the Hunter Kadre




Olympia, WA

-Guardsman- wrote:
How viable do you think the following unit would be, in a Valorous Heart army?

7 Sisters
Combi-flamer and hand flamer for the Sister Superior
1 flamer
1 multi-melta


I'm considering filling my Core slots with such a unit, because it adds up to exactly 100 pts (for easy list-building), has enough ablative wounds to protect the expensive multi-melta, and is deadly on overwatch thanks to the flamers. In a protracted close combat, the Sister Superior's dirt-cheap hand flamer adds some punch. These units will serve mostly as hard-to-dislodge objective-sitters (2+ save in cover, ignoring AP -1, melt your face off on overwatch), while Exorcists and Mortifiers handle most of the killing.

Thematically, I like a holy army having units of 7. (And yes, I know 7 is also the number of Nurgle. Shut up. How would you even happen to know such a thing, unless you were a heretic?)

.


Hehehe. That was funny.

i guess if you took like 10 of these units for 1K, you would have 10 multimeltas that are extremely difficult to stop every round. i like that concept. It would take enormous effort to kill all those multimeltas.

alphs strikey armies are really quite in vogue. These certainly have some ability to make them pay but the issue is that many of them will be beyond flamer range when they drop in front of you or deploy there. So. There is that to consider. Its not so much the thought behind it as much as it is the cost of arming them all for an ability to repel attackers they may not really get to use.



Automatically Appended Next Post:
 MacPhail wrote:
So I'm going to go look for a pickup game at the local GW storefront next weekend. I mostly play 2k, but the store advises lists at 1000 or 1500 due to space and time limits.

Anybody have big ideas for those point values? I imagine a single Battalion at 1k and maybe Battalion plus something at 1.5k. Should I stick to a single Order in these smaller games?What's a reasonable number of Exorcists for a casual game? Should I abandon mech altogether for a smaller table and go for bodies? All ideas welcome!


Well casual play is for funsies so i'd pull out the models you dont normally use and give them a work out just because no one cares about scores in those games. Perfect time to test theories.

Smaller tables? those are super iffy for sisters. if tables are tiny, go melee.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Lemondish wrote:
 davidgr33n wrote:
Lemondish wrote:
 ZergSmasher wrote:
I'm thinking about running a couple of melta BSS units in Repressors myself. I just hope Repressors don't get the Legends treatment. I doubt they will given that CA2019 listed them and the FAQ addressed them, so there's that.


We honestly have no idea what to expect from the FW book.

But if there was ever a unit that deserved to be retired, I honestly couldn't think of too many better examples than the Repressor.


Speak for yourself. I’ve been running them since early 2000s and have been a part of most lists I run. It’s the only Sisters unit in FW out of hundreds of units from every other faction. So if you wanna wish our only FW unit out of existence pls take it somewhere else.


Don't get me wrong. I'm on your side here. I want all the unit options we can get, but legends does not say anything about denying you the right to play with a model you have. In fact, it straight up ensures that you absolutely can play it if you have it.

But the reality is that this is a unit that does not currently have a model. That is not a good place for rules to exist for a variety of reasons, as far as competitive play is concerned. My preferred outcome is that there is a model re-released or redesigned. Until then, I firmly believe there's no place for a model in competitive play that cannot be acquired through legitimate means.

I don't care if you can get Chinese recasts. I don't care if you can proxy. I don't care if you have them today. A unit with no available model has no place, and the competitive community has accepted that for Legends. It is inevitable that they accept it for FW's retired back catalog, should we desire to be exactly as consistent in our approach as we often wish GW to be.


The comunity didnt accept it. It was forced on us.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 ZergSmasher wrote:
Interesting to see you doing well with an Argent Shroud detachment. I've only really thought about combos of Valorous Heart and Bloody Rose myself, but then that's because I REALLY want to run a big Repentia bomb. On that note, here's my latest list idea:
Spoiler:
Battalion: Valorous Heart
Canoness: Plasma Pistol, Power Sword, Rod of Office, Warlord (Beacon of Faith)
Celestine
5 Battle Sisters: 2x Storm Bolter
5 Battle Sisters: 2x Storm Bolter
5 Battle Sisters: No upgrades
Imagifier: Tale of the Stoic, Book of St. Lucius
Exorcist: Missile Launcher
Exorcist: Missile Launcher
Exorcist: Missile Launcher
Battalion: Bloody Rose
Canoness: Bolt Pistol, Benificence, Heroine in the Making (Indomitable Belief)
Missionary
10 Battle Sisters: 2x Meltagun, Combimelta, Simulacrum, Incensor Cherub
10 Battle Sisters: 2x Meltagun, Combimelta, Simulacrum, Incensor Cherub
5 Battle Sisters: 2x Storm Bolter
Imagifier: Tale of the Warrior
8 Repentia
8 Repentia
Repentia Superior
Repressor: 2x Heavy Flamer
Repressor: 2x Heavy Flamer
Rhino
Rhino
Total 1999 points

Basically I'd put the two big BR melta units in the Repressors, and put the Repentia and characters in the Rhinos. They would move up along with Celestine as a big nasty deathball, getting out of their vehicles as necessary to deal with stuff. Celestine and the Canoness can combine their auras to give the Repentia (and the regular BR sisters) a 4++. Once the melta units disembark, they can use their cherubs and Simulacrums to get the miracle dice train rolling for max damage. The VH stuff pretty much all sits back on objectives and blasts things with the Exorcists. My main concern is that in ITC play this list gives up easy Big Game Hunter and Headhunter, but I wanted to have some fast moving things that can help control the board a bit rather than sitting back in a gunline, hence the mechanized elements.


Well. Lot of armor to kill right? Your hope is they will shoot the Exorcists and the transports will therefore do their work. use up one Repentia unit at a time. Seems legit. Big game, Head Hunter and Butchers bill will be hard not to give up. So it will be playing from behind a little bit.

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2020/02/10 09:01:29


Hold out bait to entice the enemy. Feign disorder, and then crush him.
-Sun Tzu, the Art of War
http://www.40kunorthodoxy.blogspot.com

7th Ambassadorial Grand Tournament Registration: http://40kambassadors.com/register.php 
   
Made in gb
Esteemed Veteran Space Marine



Ottawa

 Jancoran wrote:


The comunity didnt accept it. It was forced on us.


I disagree here, largely because the competitive community in 8th has been anything but consistent on what is acceptable to adhere to. Apparently we will accept an adjustment to the fundamental mechanisms of victory, but then complain about being forced by a tyrannical hand to follow this one set of arbitrary exclusions to the letter. We ignore when it suits the community to do so, as in mission structure and terrain, but we'll accept some yoke applied by other facets without issue without question. I'm curious why that is the case.

The only thing consistent in the community's approach is that it is inconsistent. A common refrain against GW, but we're all birds of a feather it seems.

But all that aside, since either perspective is fundamentally irrelevant to changing the status quo in the direction of getting what we all want, I instead wanted to mention that I'm loving your comments in this thread. Super enlightening and very helpful for someone like me that constantly feels the pressure to adhere to the current min-max thinking while blind (or ignorant) of all the ways that approach isn't the best. Really appreciate the insight and look forward to following your journey further.
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




Lemondish wrote:
I don't care if you can get Chinese recasts. I don't care if you can proxy. I don't care if you have them today. A unit with no available model has no place, and the competitive community has accepted that for Legends. It is inevitable that they accept it for FW's retired back catalog, should we desire to be exactly as consistent in our approach as we often wish GW to be.


GW consistent? Riiiiight.

Legends was a horrible idea and is still a horrible idea. That's how I want the community as a whole, competitive or not, to treat Legends, especially since it's a "suggestion", not GW outright saying "these models are banned". Incidentally, that's how I want GW to treat Legends as well - that it is a horrible idea that we're banning models we have produced at some point.
   
Made in fi
Locked in the Tower of Amareo





Well. Guess pay to win is fine by you

2024 painted/bought: 109/109 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




I played competitively in the old Legend of the Five Rings CCG for years. I miss the days where GW actively showed conversions in codexes and WD using bits from other company's models and even went so far as showing you how to build a tank from an empty deodorant tube.

If that's pay to win, then, yes, I'm pay to win.

Edit: I also hate the whole "rule of 3" because about 90% of the units it affects have no business being restricted at all while at the same time realizing it affects armies unequally in other ways. Especially when some armies have 2-3 "generic" choices at most in a particular slot (like HQ) while others may have 5-6 different datasheets for essentially the same model with a wargear change (Captain, Primaris Captain, Gravis Captain, Terminator Captain...) that could just as easily all be rolled into one datasheet. And, no, "captain spam" isn't tearing up the meta but daemon prince spam sure did.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/02/10 13:37:06


 
   
 
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