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Made in us
Preacher of the Emperor






Now that the new codex finally makes clear the Sisters get aerospacecraft — “a Militant Order typically maintains its own fleets of orbital assault vessels an d macro-landers” — it’s fluffy as well as tactically sound to plug the gaping hole in our order of battle where Flyers should be. What follows are Sororitized versions of four classic Imperial Guard/Navy aircraft.

[EDIT: Thanks to the great advice in this thread, I've made some major revisions: The current rules are here. Read on for the first draft and how people proposed fixing it]

In my 2014 expandex, I had variants of the Valkyrie and Avenger with Shield of Faith, plus a Valkyrie variant with an Exorcist instead of a passenger cabin…. which in hindsight made no physical sense.
This time, we have more awesome special rules on all our vehicles, so here’s what I’ve done so far — the whole point of posting this is to get everybody’s critique on what works and what so very doesn’t:

These Flyers get WAY more expensive than their Astra Militarum/Aeronautic Imperialis equivalents, because the crews are elite markswoman who regularly pull off literal miracles.

All these Flyers are BS:3+; except for the Avenger, which is already BS:3+, I added 15-55 points depending on how many weapons it makes more likely to hit. They also get Ld:8, but except for a handful of weird psyker powers that doesn’t matter, so 0 points. And they get the full package of Acts of Faith, Sacred Rites, Shield of Faith, and an ORDER keyword, which is powerful and accordingly costly: I guesstimated it at 25-50 points depending on the aircraft.

I also replaced the bevy of gun, missile, rocket, and bomb options, which didn’t feel very Sisterly. Instead, there’s an emphasis on bolter-type weapons (including the Avenger Bolt Cannon), meltas (include a 30” lance), and variants of the Exorcist’s standard missile and conflagration rockets as podded under-wing weapons, with the same stats but much lower shots (and therefore cost).

The Valkyrie is a must-take. It’s a beautiful model (unlike the Marines’ flying bricks), its name literally refers to angelic female warriors, and in-universe it’s one of the most widely produced military aerospacecraft In the Imperium. This is the Sisters’ workhorse gunship.

The Virago is the Sororitas equivalent of the Vulture. This is the biggest departure from its Guard/Navy origin. Instead of a huge variety of options, it comes standard with a huge 30” melta. Its Sisters crew likes to fly right at Titans and melta them in the face, because fear is for little girls and the Imperial Guard.

The Avenger is still the evil lovechild of the A-10 Warthog and the Stuka IN SPAAACE. Only now it has Acts of Faith, Sacred Rites, and Shield of Faith, because our girls are flying it.

Finally, instead of trying to cram the Exorcist Missile Launcher onto a Valkyrie platform (what was I thinking?), I stick it on a Marauder. With both regular missiles and conflagration rockets available. This is what the Sisters call in when something more than 48” away needs to go away.

Detailed rules follow, largely hidden in spoiler tags to avoid Wall of Text. I’m eager for everyone’s impressions, whether it’s just “cool,” “this sucks and you are stupid,” or “actually the point cost should be….”

**


New Sororitas Wargear:

Conflagration Rocket Pod (15 pts):
48” Heavy 1D6 S:5 AP:-2 D:1

Exorcist Missile Pod (25 pts}:
48” Heavy 1D3 S:8 AP:-3 D: D6

Design Notes:
These are derived from the Exorcist in the Codex, just with lower rate of fire and proportionately reduced point cost (1/3, but rounded up a bit).

*

Flyer: Sororitas Valkyrie
(140 points per model, 1 model per unit)
Spoiler:

M:* WS:6+ BS:* S:7 T:7 W:14 A:3 Ld:8 Sv:3+

Some of this model’s characteristics change as it suffers damage, as shown below:
W:8-14+ M:20-45” BS:3+
W:4-7 M:20-30” BS:4+
W:1-3 M:20” BS:5+

A Sororitas Valkyrie is a single model equipped with a heavy bolter and an Exorcist Missile Pod.

Weapons:
Conflagration Rocket Pod
Exorcist Missile Pod
Heavy Bolter
Multi-Melta

Wargear Options:
This model may replace its heavy bolter with a multi-melta.
This model may replace its Exorcist Missile Pod with a Conflagration Rocket Pod.
This model may take two heavy bolters, two multi-meltas, or one heavy bolter and one multi-melta.

Abilities:
Airborne, Hard to Hit, Supersonic, Crash & Burn
Grav-Chute Insertion, Hover Jet, Roving Gunship
Acts of Faith, Sacred Rites, Shield of Faith

Transport:
This model can transport 12 Adeptus Ministorum Infantry models. Each Jump Pack model takes the place of two other Infantry models and each Penitent Abhuman takes the space of three other models.

Faction Keywords:
Imperium, Adeptus Ministorum, Adepta Sororitas, ORDER

Keywords:
Vehicle, Transport, Fly, Sororitas Valkyrie


Design Notes
Spoiler:

Guard Valkyrie = 100 pts

+1 BS: This means weapons hit 4/6 of the time vice 3/6, so 33.3% more likely. If you consider that add proportionate value to the cost of the weapons affected:
For a Valkyrie, that’s a 10-pt heavy bolter and a 25-pt EMP, so 45 points x 1/3 = 15.

+1 Ld = +0. This never comes up for a vehicle….
Lose Vehicle Squadron: pfffft, no points change.
Acts of Faith, Sacred Rites, Shield of Faith, and ORDER: +25 points?


***

Flyer: Virago Gunship
(175 points per model, 1 model per unit)
Spoiler:

M* WS:6+ BS:* S:7 T:7 W:14 A:3 Ld:8
Some of this model’s characteristics change as it suffers damage, as shown below:
W:8-14+ M:20-45” BS:3+
W:4-7 M:20-30” BS:4+
W:1-3 M:20” BS:5+

A Virago Gunship is a single model equipped with a heavy bolter, a Melta Lance, and an Exorcist Missile Pod.

Weapons:
Conflagration Rocket Pod
Exorcist Missile Pod
Heavy Bolter
Multi-Melta

Melta Lance (35 pts)
Range: 30” Assault D3 S:8 AP:-4 D: D6
When resolving an attack made with this weapon against a target that is within half range, roll two D6 when inflicting damage with it and discard one of the results.

Wargear Options:
This model may replace its Exorcist Missile Pod with a Conflagration Rocket Pod.
This model may replace its heavy bolter with a multi-melta.

Abilities:
Airborne, Hard to Hit, Supersonic, Crash & Burn
Hover Jet, Roving Gunship
Acts of Faith, Sacred Rites, Shield of Faith

Faction Keywords:
Imperium, Adeptus Ministorum, Adepta Sororitas, ORDER

Keywords:
Vehicle, Transport, Fly, Virago


Design Notes:
Spoiler:

Guard Vulture: 112 points (let’s round to 110 for sanity’s sake)

+1 BS: This means weapons hit 4/6 of the time vice 3/6, so 33.3% more likely. If you consider that add proportionate value to the cost of the weapons affected:
For a Virago, that’s a 10-pt heavy bolter, a 25-pt EMP, and a 35-point melta lance, so 70/3 = 23.3, round up to 25.
(Melta lance is a renamed -- for Holy Trinity’s sake --Thermal Spear from Armiger Warglaive, with points value suggested by Anomander Rake.)

+1 Ld = +0. This never comes up for a vehicle….
Lose Vehicle Squadron: pfffft, no points change.
Replace Strafing Run (+1 to hit vs non-fliers while hovering) with Roving Gunship (+1 to hit vs everyone while hovering): +5 pts?
Acts of Faith, Sacred Rites, Shield of Faith, and ORDER: +25 points?



***

Flyer: Sororitas Avenger
(175 points per model, 1 model per unit)
Spoiler:

M* WS:6+ BS:* S:7 T:7 W:14 A:3 Ld:8

Some of this model’s characteristics change as it suffers damage, as shown below:
W:7-14+ M:20-45” BS:3+
W:4-6 M:20-30” BS:4+
W:1-3 M:20” BS:5+

A Sororitas Avenger is a single model equipped with an Avenger Bolt Cannon, two multi-meltas, and a heavy bolter.

Weapons:
Conflagration Rocket Pod
Exorcist Missile Pod
Multi-Melta
Twin Multi-Melta

Wargear options:
This model may take one of the following options: it may take two Conflagration Rocket Pods, it may take two Exorcist Missile Pods, or replace two multi-meltas with two twin multi-meltas.

Abilities:
Airborne, Crash and Burn, Hard to Hit, Supersonic
Acts of Faith, Sacred Rites, Shield of Faith

Faction Keywords:
Imperium, Adeptus Ministorum, Adepta Sororitas

Keywords:
Vehicle, Fly, Sororitas Avenger


Design Notes:
Spoiler:

Regular Avenger: 150 points
+1 Ld = +0. This never comes up for a vehicle….
Remove defensive heavy stubber: -3? (2 pts for regular heavy stubber and +1 for anti-air bonus)
Lose Vehicle Squadron: pfffft, no points change.
Acts of Faith, Sacred Rites, Shield of Faith, and ORDER: +25 points?


**

Flyer: Marauder Exorcist
(250 points per model, 1 model per unit)
Spoiler:

M:* WS:6+ BS:* S:7 T:7 W:20 A:3 Ld:8 Sv:3+

Some of this model’s characteristics change as it suffers damage, as show below:
W:11-20 M:20”-45” BS:3+
W:5-10 M:20-30” BS:4+
W:1-4 M:20” BS:5+

A Marauder Exorcist is a single model equipped with an Exorcist Missile Launcher, Exorcist Conflagration Rockets, a twin multi-melta, and a twin heavy bolter.

Wargear Options: none.

Abilities:
Airborne, Crash and Burn, Hard to Hit, Supersonic

Sky Fortress
This model does not suffer the penalty for shooting Heavy weapons on a turn in which it has moved.


Design Notes:
Spoiler:

Marauder Destroyer: 146 points

+1 BS: This means weapons hit 4/6 of the time vice 3/6, so 33.3% more likely. If you consider that add proportionate value to the cost of the weapons affected:
For the Marauder, with 167 pts of weapons, 1/3 of that is 55.6 points! Round to 55….

+1 Ld = +0. This never comes up for a vehicle….
Acts of Faith, Sacred Rites, Shield of Faith, and ORDER: +50 points with all these weapons?
146+105 = 251, round to 250

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2020/04/20 03:23:27


BURN IT DOWN BURN IT DOWN BABY BURN IT DOWN

 Psienesis wrote:
Well, if you check out Sister Sydney's homebrew/expansion rules, you'll find all kinds of units the Sisters could have, that fit with the theme of the Sisters (as a tabletop army) perfectly well, and are damn-near-perfectly balanced.

I’m updating that fandex now & I’m eager for feedback on new home-brew units for the Sisters: Sororitas Bikers, infiltrators & Novices, tanks, flyers, characters, superheavies, Frateris Militia, and now Confessors and Battle Conclave characters
My Novice Ginevra stories start with Bolter B-Word Privileges 
   
Made in us
Lesser Daemon of Chaos




New Orleans

Melta Lance needs a strength value for the weapon.

The Valkyrie pattern vehicles are all going to be hitting on 2+ thanks to the roving gunship rule. The points cost should probably be based on that value rather than the 3+.

At 250 points your marauder variant is almost 60 points cheaper than the marauder destroyer. I can’t say I’m very familiar with that model in game but with full subfaction rules instead of the aeronatica penalty it feels like you’re getting a lot better synergy for a reduced cost.

Why can the Avenger hover in the designers notes? The rules don’t list it but you’ve calculated that into your design notes. A strike fight hovering doesn’t make sense and I don’t think the avenger has strafing run anyways.

Iron within, Iron without 
   
Made in us
Preacher of the Emperor






Some good catches, thanks. The Marauder Exorcist cost is confusing because of the pants-on-head way GW now lists unit costs: the 250 points is without any wargear, so it's over 100 points more expensive than the Marauder Destroyer without wargear. Both variants have 166-167 points of weapons, bringin the Marauder Exorcist's true cost up to 417.

I've fixed the Avengers' design notes and point cost -- that was me copying-and-pasting sloppily -- and the Melta Lance's statline.

The most serious problem you raise is that both Sororitas Valkyries and Viragos will be hitting on 2+ in Hover Jet mode. I'm not actually worried about the points cost being off -- since GW presumably factored the +1 into the costs for the original versions, and going from a 3+ to a 2+ in hover mode is actually a smaller percentage improvement than going from 4+ to 3+, which is what I based my additional costs on
But I am worried that a 2+ to-hit on vehicles with this much firepower is over the top. On the other hand, I don't want to drop the Roving Gunship rule, as without it the Valkyrie and Virago have very little incentive to ever drop out of supersonic flight.
As much as I love the idea of Sisters pilots sharpshooting on 2+ with giant meltas, I think it makes more sense to go to a 4+ BS that improves to 3+ in hover mode. Fluffwife, it makes sense that the Imperial Navy crews on the Valkyrie and Vulture are the cream of the crop, like strike fighter pilots, and naturally have a 3+ BS, but the Valkyrie and Vulture (and by extension the Sororitas Virago) are actually pretty crappy platforms for high-altitude dogfighting and effectively lose a point of BS when not in hover mode.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
PS: And yes, this would bring down the cost of the Valkyrie and Virago a LOT.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/03/24 03:10:14


BURN IT DOWN BURN IT DOWN BABY BURN IT DOWN

 Psienesis wrote:
Well, if you check out Sister Sydney's homebrew/expansion rules, you'll find all kinds of units the Sisters could have, that fit with the theme of the Sisters (as a tabletop army) perfectly well, and are damn-near-perfectly balanced.

I’m updating that fandex now & I’m eager for feedback on new home-brew units for the Sisters: Sororitas Bikers, infiltrators & Novices, tanks, flyers, characters, superheavies, Frateris Militia, and now Confessors and Battle Conclave characters
My Novice Ginevra stories start with Bolter B-Word Privileges 
   
Made in us
Lesser Daemon of Chaos




New Orleans

The Marauder Exorcist makes more sense with the other marauder variants with wargear. I wasn’t sure if those had been rolled into the totals. Now GW needs to fix a lot of its superheavy points for forge world. I think you could drop the cost to around 350-375 with everything. 400 points is a heavy investment for any army.

I think that solution for the Flyers BS works out rules wise. Price wise they should fall closer to the Valkyrie levels but still at an uptick since they’re avoiding the aeronautica penalties (subfaction abilities and reroll compatibility). It might even be worth exploring just opening the gunship options as aeronautica auxiliaries for the sisters and keeping the Avenger as a SoB unit. Didn’t they have lightning fighters too?

Iron within, Iron without 
   
Made in us
Witch Hunter Undercover in a Cult







What's up with the "Penitent Abhuman" tag on the Valkyrie transport capacity? Is that something new you've added elsewhere in your expansion?

The BS question is a weird one the way 8e pricing works; GW's adjusted both the base price of models and the price of weapons in their work to account for it. There aren't so many examples of the same unit with just different BS as there used to be, and GW's fuzzed the issue with the obvious one (LRBT v. command tank) because the 35pt bump in base price includes tank orders and the weapons don't change price to account for it. Considering LRBT weapons that have an identical counterpart in the Astartes price changes across four weapons could be 25-30pts already.

I think charging for the BS increase on the model's base price and by increasing the cost of the weapons is a trap; that's a large part of why the Space Marines' initial Codex release was so awful. Given that Sororitas pricing is based on the 3+ BS and lines up with Astartes pricing in comparable cases I'd strongly suggest charging either a token 10pts or nothing on the base price of the model for the BS increase. The 6+ Invulnerable save is probably worth something but statistically it isn't worth very much; a Sororitas Rhino is exactly the same price as an Astartes Rhino right now. I'd suggest considering it as part of the free faction-rules package rather than trying to price it.

On the Valkyrie weapons I'd suggest backing off on the weapons' range and making them Assault to line them up better with the role of close air support (and the weapons on the Navy Valkyrie); they're not stand-off artillery, they're supposed to clear their own drop zone and bring troops down. They shouldn't be punished for moving forward and shouldn't have the range to sit in the back, their role is supposed to be more aggressive than an Exorcist.

Would you consider doing a Sky Talon equivalent to schlep Penitent Engines into the field?

Balanced Game: Noun. A game in which all options and choices are worth using. 
   
Made in us
Preacher of the Emperor






Thanks, that's very helpful analysis. Between your advice and Evil Kiwi's I think I'm going to overhaul what BS I give these (to avoid Valkyrie variants hitting on 2+ in hover mode) and how I price them.
One reason to give some points cost for Acts/Rites/Shield, though, is that Astra Militarum flyers -- on which these are based -- do not get a REGIMENT keyword, so they don't have access to Regimental Doctrines and Orders, the Guard equivalent of these rules.
I'm not sure about making the Exorcist Missile Pod and Conflagration Rocket Pod shorter-ranged Assault weapons: They're supposed to be podded versions of the weapons on the Exorcist, hence Range 48" Heavy, and of the weapons they're replacing -- the Hellfire, Hellfury, and Multiple Rocket Pod -- two are Range 72" Heavy.
Finally, the Penitent Abhumans are indeed a Frateris Militia unit from my old fandex that I plan on updating in a later thread. And the idea of airlifting Penitent Engines is very cool....

BURN IT DOWN BURN IT DOWN BABY BURN IT DOWN

 Psienesis wrote:
Well, if you check out Sister Sydney's homebrew/expansion rules, you'll find all kinds of units the Sisters could have, that fit with the theme of the Sisters (as a tabletop army) perfectly well, and are damn-near-perfectly balanced.

I’m updating that fandex now & I’m eager for feedback on new home-brew units for the Sisters: Sororitas Bikers, infiltrators & Novices, tanks, flyers, characters, superheavies, Frateris Militia, and now Confessors and Battle Conclave characters
My Novice Ginevra stories start with Bolter B-Word Privileges 
   
Made in us
Witch Hunter Undercover in a Cult







 SisterSydney wrote:
Thanks, that's very helpful analysis. Between your advice and Evil Kiwi's I think I'm going to overhaul what BS I give these (to avoid Valkyrie variants hitting on 2+ in hover mode) and how I price them.


The quick fluff answer then is to say that these are piloted by militia rather than Sisters.

One reason to give some points cost for Acts/Rites/Shield, though, is that Astra Militarum flyers -- on which these are based -- do not get a REGIMENT keyword, so they don't have access to Regimental Doctrines and Orders, the Guard equivalent of these rules.


8e habitually doesn't bother assigning prices to the army-wide rules. If you want to go right ahead, I'm just observing that within the broader context of 8e nothing else does.

I'm not sure about making the Exorcist Missile Pod and Conflagration Rocket Pod shorter-ranged Assault weapons: They're supposed to be podded versions of the weapons on the Exorcist, hence Range 48" Heavy, and of the weapons they're replacing -- the Hellfire, Hellfury, and Multiple Rocket Pod -- two are Range 72" Heavy.


I strongly disagree with forcing airplanes to move and then punishing them for doing so by making their weapons Heavy. It's screwey from a game design perspective, doesn't fit well with the role the unit's supposed to fill, and pushes the unit to compete for function/role directly with the Exorcist. Especially if you're going to back the BS off to 4+ you're then running a unit with d3-shot missile pods that can't hit on anything better than 5+ unless you hold still? It's so unreliable as to be pretty much irrelevant. There's a reason the only flyers anyone really uses in 8e are the ones with PotMS.

Balanced Game: Noun. A game in which all options and choices are worth using. 
   
Made in us
Preacher of the Emperor






Good point about Fliers. Vulture has BS:4+ and all its weapons are Heavy, so -1 to hit unless it's switched to hover mode and is standing still -- but then it has +1 against ground targets due to the Strafing Run rule. So it's hitting at 5+ in air-to-air dogfights, 4+ against ground targets when moving, and 3+ against ground targets when static.
Valkyrie has a slightly different rule, Roving Gunship, that gives them +1 to hit when they're in hover mode. They also have an Assault option, the rocket pod. So they hit on anywhere from 5+, when firing heavy weapons in jet mode; 4+, when firing heavy weapons in hover mode; or 3+, when firing rocket pods in hover mode.
Thinking about the Sororitas Valkyrie and Virago in the same way: If they start with 3+ BS, then
- firing heavy weapons in air-to-air dogfight: hit on 4+
- firing heavy weapons in hover mode: 3+
- firing Assault weapons (in the current version, only the Melta Lance) in hover mode OR firing heavy weapons while static: 2+.

That's not necessarily an unreasonable spread, actually. The Virago firing its signature weapon in a strafing run against a ground target should be pretty sweet, especially since it's got to get up in the target's face (15" or less) to benefit from the melta effect. Likewise going completely stationary for a turn to fire off heavy weapons is giving up a lot. So in either case, maybe a 2+ to hit is fair. In all other cases, we're looking at a 3+ (for using the flyer properly in ground attack mode) or 4+ (for trying to dogfight, which is not the purpose of these aircraft). I could actually be comfortable with that....

BURN IT DOWN BURN IT DOWN BABY BURN IT DOWN

 Psienesis wrote:
Well, if you check out Sister Sydney's homebrew/expansion rules, you'll find all kinds of units the Sisters could have, that fit with the theme of the Sisters (as a tabletop army) perfectly well, and are damn-near-perfectly balanced.

I’m updating that fandex now & I’m eager for feedback on new home-brew units for the Sisters: Sororitas Bikers, infiltrators & Novices, tanks, flyers, characters, superheavies, Frateris Militia, and now Confessors and Battle Conclave characters
My Novice Ginevra stories start with Bolter B-Word Privileges 
   
Made in us
Preacher of the Emperor






I finally understood something Anomander Rake was trying to tell me: the same weapon is costed differently in different 8th edition codexes to reflect the superior BS (and maybe other traits) of the different armies, so I don’t need to add a flat percentage on top of a weapon’s cost to reflect it being used with superior skill, I just need to use the cost from the Sororitas wargear list. That will be a huge price drop since the weapons already in the SoB codex are already appropriately costed, and likewise new weapons are all costed for Sororitas already (either they’re based on the Exorcist’s weapons or they’re handcrafted by Anomander Rake as a Sororitas weapon).

1) Derp. I’m slow.
2) Thank you!

BURN IT DOWN BURN IT DOWN BABY BURN IT DOWN

 Psienesis wrote:
Well, if you check out Sister Sydney's homebrew/expansion rules, you'll find all kinds of units the Sisters could have, that fit with the theme of the Sisters (as a tabletop army) perfectly well, and are damn-near-perfectly balanced.

I’m updating that fandex now & I’m eager for feedback on new home-brew units for the Sisters: Sororitas Bikers, infiltrators & Novices, tanks, flyers, characters, superheavies, Frateris Militia, and now Confessors and Battle Conclave characters
My Novice Ginevra stories start with Bolter B-Word Privileges 
   
Made in us
Lesser Daemon of Chaos




New Orleans

How low are you planning to reduce the points? Right now you’re talking about having a Valkyrie variant with better accuracy, better synergy, and better rule sets. The Aeronautica Imperialis block all the guard flyers from benefiting from any of the regiment abilities. The sister’s aircraft seem to have a considerably advantage over their guard counterparts.

Iron within, Iron without 
   
Made in us
Preacher of the Emperor






Yeah, that's why I valued the package of Acts/Rites/Shield & ORDER as +25 points: While it's true that GW generally doesn't put a cost on army-wide abilities, the lack of a REGIMENT keyword means Guard/Navy/Aeronautic fliers are currently costed without any army-wide abilities.
If I keep that 25 points, but cut the plus-up to weapons costs I was doing (unnecessarily) to compensate for the drop in Ballistic skill, I'd get the following costs -- all without wargear, mind you:

IG Valkyrie: 100 pts vs. Sororitas Valkyrie: 125
IG Vulture: 112 pts vs SoB Virago* 137 points**
IG Avenger: 150 pts vs SoB Avenger: 175 pts***
IG Marauder Destroyer: 146 pts vs. SoB Marauder Exorcist: 181+ pts ****

These are still significantly higher prices than the base versions. I'm open to suggestions on whether they are higher enough to compensate for all the special abilities. Acts is a big one, but Order Convictions & Sacred Rites are pretty hit-or-miss for vehicles, and Shield of Faith doesn't come up much for something with a 3+ save.

* I'm sorry, I love this name.
** Assuming I leave Strafing Run alone this time.
*** No change from the current version, since the Avenger was already BS:3+.
**** With the sheer amount of weapons the Marauder carries, the Acts/Rites/Shield/ORDER package is probably worth more than 25 points -- maybe 40?

BURN IT DOWN BURN IT DOWN BABY BURN IT DOWN

 Psienesis wrote:
Well, if you check out Sister Sydney's homebrew/expansion rules, you'll find all kinds of units the Sisters could have, that fit with the theme of the Sisters (as a tabletop army) perfectly well, and are damn-near-perfectly balanced.

I’m updating that fandex now & I’m eager for feedback on new home-brew units for the Sisters: Sororitas Bikers, infiltrators & Novices, tanks, flyers, characters, superheavies, Frateris Militia, and now Confessors and Battle Conclave characters
My Novice Ginevra stories start with Bolter B-Word Privileges 
   
Made in us
Lesser Daemon of Chaos




New Orleans

I think the Valkyrie and Virago could stand to be higher. The order convictions and sacred rights can get fairly stupid. A Valorous Heart one could hover giving it BS 2+, ignore up to AP-2, with a 6++, and a 6+++. Add a 5+ shoot when dead or +1 AP on a 6 at your preference.

A Vendetta Gunship is about 230 points and the Virago clocks in at about 200. The virago should probably push closer to the Vendetta’s cost considering the two want to target the same things but the virago will have a better average damage output and slightly better to markedly better protection.

The Avenger and Marauder look fine overall. Soup wise though would anyone ever take the regular Avenger over a sisters one?

Iron within, Iron without 
   
Made in us
Preacher of the Emperor






I see your point -- I have to remember to stress-test these with the best possible Order & Rite, because a lot of people would naturally take that. So, yeah, maybe the standard-SoB-abilities package needs to be higher (which would help answer your "why ever take a non-SoB Avenger" question as well). And I have to remember to compare the cost of a bonus on the model fully loaded with wargear, so...

Cost without wargear (Cost WITH wargear) assuming 25 points for the SoB package would be as follows -- for each entry, 1st number is base cost, 2nd is w/ maxed-out wargear (except for the Marauder Destroyer -- see [3] below), and the % figure at the end is how much more the fully-loaded SoB version costs compared to the fully-loaded IG one:

If SoB package costs 25 points:
IG Valkyrie 100 163 SoB Valkyrie 125 216 32.5%
IG Vulture 112 176 SoB Virago 137 234 33.0%
IG Avenger 150 190 SoB Avenger 175 265 39.5%
IG Marauder 146 309 SoB Marauder 171 338 9.4%

If SoB package costs 50 points:
IG Valkyrie 100 163 SoB Valkyrie 150 241 47.9%
IG Vulture 112 176 SoB Virago 162 259 47.2%
IG Avenger 150 190 SoB Avenger 200 290 52.6%
IG Marauder 146 309 SoB Marauder 196 363 17.5%

While doing this, I learned three big things:
1) The Melta Lance was way undercosted at the original 35 points, since a twin multi-melta is 40 points for less range and the Heavy rule instead of Assault; I've upped it to 50 here.
2) The IG Codex puts Hellstrikes at 12 points; Imperial Armour puts them at 30 I've used the IG Codex number here.
3) The IG Marauder Destroyer actually costs more than the SoB Marauder Exorcist when you take the option for 8 Hellstrikes, which I didn't include the cost of here. I need to let my version have the option for extra Exorcist Missile Pods or something....

My conclusions about the point costs of my homebrew versions: The Marauder Exorcist is screwy and needs rewriting, but the Sororitas Valkyrie, Virago (with recosted Melta Lance), and Avenger actually look pretty reasonable at a 25-point premium for the SoB rules package, in part because the cost of their weapons is pretty high.

What does everyone think?

BURN IT DOWN BURN IT DOWN BABY BURN IT DOWN

 Psienesis wrote:
Well, if you check out Sister Sydney's homebrew/expansion rules, you'll find all kinds of units the Sisters could have, that fit with the theme of the Sisters (as a tabletop army) perfectly well, and are damn-near-perfectly balanced.

I’m updating that fandex now & I’m eager for feedback on new home-brew units for the Sisters: Sororitas Bikers, infiltrators & Novices, tanks, flyers, characters, superheavies, Frateris Militia, and now Confessors and Battle Conclave characters
My Novice Ginevra stories start with Bolter B-Word Privileges 
   
Made in us
Preacher of the Emperor






I've revised all four flyers extensively based on the great feedback from this thread -- thanks, all. I'd love your thoughts on this version.

Changes:
- I valued the package of Sororitas army rules (Acts/Rites/Shield) as 30 pts for Valkyrie, Virago, and Avenger; 50 pts for the much more heavily armored Marauder.
- The cost of going to from BS:4+ (on Valkyrie, Virago, and Marauder) to BS:3+ does NOT add to the base cost of the model, because those units don’t get any wargear included in their base cost; Sororitas weapons are more expensive than Guard ones to reflect their better chance of hitting. - The Avenger is already BS:3+, BUT its Avenger Bolt Cannon is included in the base cost of the model (i.e. it costs zero points as wargear); fortunately we have a version of the ABC costed for Sororitas already, at 40 points thanks to useful feedback in the Sororitas tanks thread. So the version of the Avenger below does NOT include the cost of its main gun, which means its base cost comes out slightly CHEAPER – but with the Avenger Bolt Cannon paid for, it’s 180 points, a 30-pt increase.
- For the Marauder, I created a new version of the Exorcist Missile Launcher that has Conflagration Rockets as an alt mode, at half the cost of having a separate Exorcist Conflagration Rocket weapon (since you can’t fire both at once).

*

New Sororitas Wargear:

Avenger Bolt Cannon (40 pts)
Range: 36” Heavy 8 S:6 AP:-2 D :1

Conflagration Rocket Pod (15 pts):
48” Heavy 1D6 S:5 AP:-2 D 1

Exorcist Missile Pod (25 pts}:
48” Heavy 1D3 S:8 AP:-3 D: D6

Exorcist Multi-Mode Launcher (90 pts)
When attacking with this weapon, choose one of the profiles below:
Devastation Missiles: 48” Heavy 3D3 S:8 AP:-3 D: D6
Conflagration Rockets: 48” Heavy 3D6 S:5 AP:-2 D: 1

Design Notes:
Spoiler:

These are all derived from the Exorcist in the Codex.
The pods have with lower rate of fire and proportionately reduced point cost (1/3, but rounded up a bit).
The Multi-Mode Launcher is a regular Exorcist Missile Launcher with a half-cost (since you can’t fire it at the same time) Exorcist Conflagration Rockets weapon stuck on top.


*

Flyer: Sororitas Valkyrie
(130 points per model, 1 model per unit)
Spoiler:

M:* WS:6+ BS:* S:7 T:7 W:14 A:3 Ld:8 Sv:3+

Some of this model’s characteristics change as it suffers damage, as shown below:
W:8-14+ M:20-45” BS:3+
W:4-7 M:20-30” BS:4+
W:1-3 M:20” BS:5+

A Sororitas Valkyrie is a single model equipped with a heavy bolter and an Exorcist Missile Pod.

Conflagration Rocket Pod (15 pts):
48” Heavy 1D6 S:5 AP:-2 D 1

Exorcist Missile Pod (25 pts}:
48” Heavy 1D3 S:8 AP:-3 D: D6

Wargear Options:
This model may replace its heavy bolter with a multi-melta.
This model may replace its Exorcist Missile Pod with a Conflagration Rocket Pod.
This model may take two heavy bolters, two multi-meltas, or one heavy bolter and one multi-melta.

Abilities:
Airborne, Hard to Hit, Supersonic, Crash & Burn
Grav-Chute Insertion, Hover Jet, Roving Gunship
Acts of Faith, Sacred Rites, Shield of Faith

Transport:
This model can transport 12 Adeptus Ministorum Infantry models. Each Jump Pack model takes the place of two other Infantry models and each Penitent Abhuman takes the space of three other models.

Faction Keywords:
Imperium, Adeptus Ministorum, Adepta Sororitas, ORDER

Keywords:
Vehicle, Transport, Fly, Sororitas Valkyrie


Design Notes
Spoiler:

Guard Valkyrie = 100 pts

+1 BS: this is reflected in the costs of the wargear, not the base model (since no weapons are included in the base cost of the Valkyrie). Fully loaded with all weapons options, this comes to 216 points, vs. 163 for the IG Valkyrie.
+1 Ld = +0. This never comes up for a vehicle….
Lose Vehicle Squadron: pfffft, no points change.
Acts of Faith, Sacred Rites, Shield of Faith, and ORDER: +30 points?


***

Flyer: Virago Gunship
(145 points per model, 1 model per unit)
Spoiler:

M* WS:6+ BS:* S:7 T:7 W:14 A:3 Ld:8
Some of this model’s characteristics change as it suffers damage, as shown below:
W:8-14+ M:20-45” BS:3+
W:4-7 M:20-30” BS:4+
W:1-3 M:20” BS:5+

A Virago Gunship is a single model equipped with a heavy bolter, a Melta Lance, and an Exorcist Missile Pod.

Melta Lance (50 pts)
Range: 30” Assault D3 S:8 AP:-4 D: D6
When resolving an attack made with this weapon against a target that is within half range, roll two D6 when inflicting damage with it and discard one of the results.

Conflagration Rocket Pod (15 pts):
48” Heavy 1D6 S:5 AP:-2 D 1

Exorcist Missile Pod (25 pts}:
48” Heavy 1D3 S:8 AP:-3 D: D6

Wargear Options:
This model may replace its Exorcist Missile Pod with a Conflagration Rocket Pod.
This model may replace a heavy bolter with a multi-melta.

Abilities:
Airborne, Hard to Hit, Supersonic, Crash & Burn
Hover Jet
Acts of Faith, Sacred Rites, Shield of Faith

Strafing Run
Add 1 to hit rolls against targets that do not have the FLY keyword.

Faction Keywords:
Imperium, Adeptus Ministorum, Adepta Sororitas, ORDER

Keywords:
Vehicle, Transport, Fly, Virago


Design Notes:
Spoiler:

Guard Vulture: 112 points (let’s round to 115 for sanity’s sake)

+1 BS: This is reflected in the cost of the weapons, since the base cost of the Vulture doesn’t include any. Fully loaded, this costs 240 pts, vs. 176 for a comparably equipped Vulture.
+1 Ld = +0. This never comes up for a vehicle….
Lose Vehicle Squadron: pfffft, no points change.
Acts of Faith, Sacred Rites, Shield of Faith, and ORDER: +30 points?



***

Flyer: Sororitas Avenger
(140 points per model, 1 model per unit)
Spoiler:

M* WS:6+ BS:* S:7 T:7 W:14 A:3 Ld:8

Some of this model’s characteristics change as it suffers damage, as shown below:
W:7-14+ M:20-45” BS:3+
W:4-6 M:20-30” BS:4+
W:1-3 M:20” BS:5+

A Sororitas Avenger is a single model equipped with an Avenger Bolt Cannon, two multi-meltas, and a heavy bolter.

Avenger Bolt Cannon (40 pts)
Range: 36” Heavy 8 S:6 AP:-2 D :1

Wargear options:
This model may take one of the following options: it may take two Conflagration Rocket Pods, it may take two Exorcist Missile Pods, or replace two multi-meltas with two twin multi-meltas.

Conflagration Rocket Pod (15 pts):
48” Heavy 1D6 S:5 AP:-2 D 1

Exorcist Missile Pod (25 pts}:
48” Heavy 1D3 S:8 AP:-3 D: D6

Abilities:
Airborne, Crash and Burn, Hard to Hit, Supersonic
Acts of Faith, Sacred Rites, Shield of Faith

Faction Keywords:
Imperium, Adeptus Ministorum, Adepta Sororitas

Keywords:
Vehicle, Fly, Sororitas Avenger


Design Notes:
Spoiler:

Regular Avenger: 150 points
+1 Ld = +0. This never comes up for a vehicle….
Remove Avenger Bolt Cannon from base cost (since it’s now bought as Wargear): -40 pts
Remove defensive heavy stubber: 0 (2 pts for regular heavy stubber, and this gets a bonus against fliers, but I’m not gonna be picky)
Lose Vehicle Squadron: pfffft, no points change.
Acts of Faith, Sacred Rites, Shield of Faith, and ORDER: +30 points?

150-40+30 = 140


**

Flyer: Marauder Exorcist
(250 points per model, 1 model per unit)
Spoiler:

M:* WS:6+ BS:* S:7 T:7 W:20 A:3 Ld:8 Sv:3+

Some of this model’s characteristics change as it suffers damage, as shown below:
W:11-20 M:20”-45” BS:3+
W:5-10 M:20-30” BS:4+
W:1-4 M:20” BS:5+

A Marauder Exorcist is a single model equipped with an Exorcist Multi-Mode Launcher, a twin multi-melta, and a twin heavy bolter.

Exorcist Multi-Mode Launcher (90 pts)
When attacking with this weapon, choose one of the profiles below:
Devastation Missiles: 48” Heavy 3D3 S:8 AP:-3 D: D6
Conflagration Rockets: 48” Heavy 3D6 S:5 AP:-2 D: 1

Wargear Options:
This model may take one of the following: four Exorcist Missile Pods; four Conflagration Rocket Pods; two Exorcist Missile Pods and two Conflagration Rocket Pods.

Conflagration Rocket Pod (15 pts):
48” Heavy 1D6 S:5 AP:-2 D 1

Exorcist Missile Pod (25 pts}:
48” Heavy 1D3 S:8 AP:-3 D: D6

Abilities:
Airborne, Crash and Burn, Hard to Hit, Supersonic

Sky Fortress
This model does not suffer the penalty for shooting Heavy weapons on a turn in which it has moved.


Design Notes:
Spoiler:

Marauder Destroyer: 146 points

+1 BS: Again, this is reflected in the cost of the weapons, not the base model.
+1 Ld = +0. This never comes up for a vehicle….
Acts of Faith, Sacred Rites, Shield of Faith, and ORDER: +50 points with all these weapons?
146+105 = 251, round to 250


BURN IT DOWN BURN IT DOWN BABY BURN IT DOWN

 Psienesis wrote:
Well, if you check out Sister Sydney's homebrew/expansion rules, you'll find all kinds of units the Sisters could have, that fit with the theme of the Sisters (as a tabletop army) perfectly well, and are damn-near-perfectly balanced.

I’m updating that fandex now & I’m eager for feedback on new home-brew units for the Sisters: Sororitas Bikers, infiltrators & Novices, tanks, flyers, characters, superheavies, Frateris Militia, and now Confessors and Battle Conclave characters
My Novice Ginevra stories start with Bolter B-Word Privileges 
   
 
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