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Made in us
Preacher of the Emperor






I love tanks. I love Sisters. But the Sisters don't have a true Main Battle Tank the way the Guard or Marines do -- a problem this homebrew unit is intended to fix.


UPDATE: I've thoroughly revised the original rules into much more Sisters-unique tanks on an Exorcist chassis, as well as adding new vehicle wargear -- the latest rules are here: Lector, Lucifer, & Flammifer. I've retained the original version below purely so people can see what the discussion is referring to.

While the Exorcist sits in the backfield and pours out long-range fire (well, long-range for Sisters...), the Sororitas Predator is intended to lunge forward blasting things with Magna-Meltas, Inferno Cannon, or Avenger Bolt Cannons -- yes, as in the one on the Avenger Strike Fighter. There's also a Stratagem to give any Sisters unit the Retributors' "Faithful Advance" rule, since we don't have a "Big Guns Never Tire" equivalent.

I'm eager for feedback, especially on which of the Imperium's ridiculous number of slightly different tank-sized flamer weapons should go on this thing.

And I'm also looking for critiques of my other homebrew units: VIgil infiltrating snipers & Novices as troops and Sororitas Bikers.


Details of the unit are in spoiler tags to avoid Wall of Text:

Stratagem: Faithful Advance (1 CP)
Choose one Adepta Sororitas unit. Models in that unit do not suffer the penalty for moving and firing Heavy weapons.




Sororitas Predator
(1 model, 85 ppm)
Spoiler:

M:* WS:6+ BS:* S:6 T:7 W:11 A:* Ld:8 Sv:3+
Some of this model’s characteristics change as it suffers damage, as shown below:
6-11 wounds remaining: M:12” BS:3+ A:3
3-5: M:6” BS:4+ A3
1-2: M:3 BS:5+ A:1

A Sororitas Predator is a single model equipped with an Avenger Bolt Cannon.

Avenger Bolt Cannon (45 pts) 36” Heavy 8 S:6 AP:-2 D :1

Wargear Options:
This model can be equipped with 1
Magna-Melta Cannon or 1 Twin Inferno Cannon instead of 1 Avenger Bolt Cannon.

Magna-Melta Cannon (50 pts) 24” Heavy D3 S:10 AP:-4 D : D6
If the target of an attack by this weapon is within half range, roll an additional dice when inflicting damage and discard the lowest result.

Twin Inferno Cannon (40 pts) 16” Heavy 4D6 S:6 AP:-1 D :1
This weapon automatically hits its target.

This model can additionally be equipped with one of the following: 2 heavy bolters; 2 heavy flamers; 2 multi-meltas.

This model can additionally be equipped with 1 hunter-killer missile.

This model can additionally be equipped with 1 storm bolter.

This model can additionally be equipped with 1 Laud Hailer (10 points)

Abilities:
Acts of Faith
Sacred Rites
Shield of Faith
Explodes
Smoke Launchers

Faction Keywords:
Imperium, Adeptus Ministorum, Adepta Sororitas, ORDER

Keywords:
Vehicle, Sororitas Predator


Design Notes:
The Magna-Melta is off the Deimos Predator, while the Avenger Bolt Cannon -- except for the price, which is my guesstimate -- is off the Avenger Strike Fighter, which canonically the Sisters love. (I'll homebrew a Sororitas version of that one soon). I was a bit overwhelmed by all the Imperial flamer weapons, but decided the Hellhound's Inferno Cannon is just really good for its points, so I basically gave this unit two of them.

This message was edited 5 times. Last update was at 2020/03/30 11:57:42


BURN IT DOWN BURN IT DOWN BABY BURN IT DOWN

 Psienesis wrote:
Well, if you check out Sister Sydney's homebrew/expansion rules, you'll find all kinds of units the Sisters could have, that fit with the theme of the Sisters (as a tabletop army) perfectly well, and are damn-near-perfectly balanced.

I’m updating that fandex now & I’m eager for feedback on new home-brew units for the Sisters: Sororitas Bikers, infiltrators & Novices, tanks, flyers, characters, superheavies, Frateris Militia, and now Confessors and Battle Conclave characters
My Novice Ginevra stories start with Bolter B-Word Privileges 
   
Made in us
Rotting Sorcerer of Nurgle





In My Lab

Inferno Cannon doesn't auto-hit.
Melta lacks the Melta rule.

And the Inferno Cannon is honestly gonna be better than the Avenger. 14 hits at S6 AP-1 D1 averages a lot more damage than 8 shots at S6 AP-2 D1.

For reference, assuming T4...

Armor Save.......Avenger Damage....Inferno Damage
1+............................1.19............................1.56
2+............................1.78............................3.11
3+............................2.37............................4.67
4+............................2.96............................6.22
5+............................3.56............................7.78
6+............................3.56............................9.33

And that's at TOP BRACKET. Where the Avenger degrades, the Inferno doesn't. And at 16" range and 12" move, you're hitting just fine.

Clocks for the clockmaker! Cogs for the cog throne! 
   
Made in us
Preacher of the Emperor






Good catches, thanks. I think the range of the Avenger Bolt Cannon does matter -- maybe you don't want to charge 12" towards the enemy sometimes? -- but maybe I should drop the cost by 5 points?

Honestly I included the ABC primarily for cool factor and fluff, since the Sororitas like the Avenger Strike Fighter, presumably because of this weapon. If it's suboptimal, my heart won't break -- this is homebrew after all.....

Also note that I put Laud Hailers on as a 10 point piece of equipment -- I miss that we lost that from past Codexes, again mainly for fluff value.
I even considered homebrewing a form of Simulacrum + Cherub for vehicles, but GW seems to have made those very clearly only an infantry thing, and our vehicles didn't even get Acts of Faith until this edition, so I with great difficulty restrained myself.

BURN IT DOWN BURN IT DOWN BABY BURN IT DOWN

 Psienesis wrote:
Well, if you check out Sister Sydney's homebrew/expansion rules, you'll find all kinds of units the Sisters could have, that fit with the theme of the Sisters (as a tabletop army) perfectly well, and are damn-near-perfectly balanced.

I’m updating that fandex now & I’m eager for feedback on new home-brew units for the Sisters: Sororitas Bikers, infiltrators & Novices, tanks, flyers, characters, superheavies, Frateris Militia, and now Confessors and Battle Conclave characters
My Novice Ginevra stories start with Bolter B-Word Privileges 
   
Made in kw
Lesser Daemon of Chaos




New Orleans

The relic predator already has a flamer option. The flamestorm cannon is 45 points, 8” range 2D6 S5 AP-1 D2. For 5 points less you’re getting +1S and double the shots and range. The only cost is one less damage. If your using the relic predator as a base, you might as well keep the flamer weapon it comes with.

For that matter this has twice the firepower of the hellhound tank for only 24 points more.

As it is

Iron within, Iron without 
   
Made in us
Preacher of the Emperor






The Flamestorm Cannon on the Deimos Predator is just... awful for its points. Primarily because of the range being 33-50% shorter than most alternatives, but the strength being one less doesn’t help. So awful I couldn’t bear to use it.

Here’s the statlines of various Imperium vehicle flamers for comparison:
Flamers (automatically hit)
[Deimos] Infernus Cannon (45 pts) 8” Heavy 2D6 S:5 AP:-2 D:2
[Hellhound] Inferno Cannon (20 pts) 16” Heavy 2D6 S:6 AP:-1 D:1
Immolation Flamers (30 pts) 12” Assault 2D6 S:5 AP:-1 D:1
[Land Raider Reedemer] Flamestorm Cannon (25 pts) 12” Heavy D6 S:6 AP:-2 D:2

BURN IT DOWN BURN IT DOWN BABY BURN IT DOWN

 Psienesis wrote:
Well, if you check out Sister Sydney's homebrew/expansion rules, you'll find all kinds of units the Sisters could have, that fit with the theme of the Sisters (as a tabletop army) perfectly well, and are damn-near-perfectly balanced.

I’m updating that fandex now & I’m eager for feedback on new home-brew units for the Sisters: Sororitas Bikers, infiltrators & Novices, tanks, flyers, characters, superheavies, Frateris Militia, and now Confessors and Battle Conclave characters
My Novice Ginevra stories start with Bolter B-Word Privileges 
   
Made in kw
Lesser Daemon of Chaos




New Orleans

I think you should leave it at a single flamestorm cannon if that’s the weapon system you want to use. I’d say cost it at 30 points for it too. Then there is some debate between which variant you want to field.

The base for the model should be more expensive than a bog standard predator too given that is has a 6++ save and access to ways to modify it.

Side note, what would the Laud Hailer do now?



This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2020/02/29 15:16:21


Iron within, Iron without 
   
Made in us
Witch Hunter Undercover in a Cult







The Deimos Predator's weapon is an Index thing that hasn't been updated to reflect the pile of mistakes in the Indexes GW made before they stopped to try and do some basic math about how 8e actually works.

Still, 4d6 feels pretty extreme for one weapon, especially given that every other Imperium heavy vehicle-mounted flamer is either a 2d6 turret mount or 2 1d6 sponson mounts. If you want to make it feel bigger and scarier than the Immolator's flamers sticking with 2d6 shots and going to D2 seems like a better idea.

Balanced Game: Noun. A game in which all options and choices are worth using. 
   
Made in us
Preacher of the Emperor






Or even twin Flamestorm cannons, at 50 points for 12” Heavy 2D6 S:6 AP:-2 D:2? I just love the range on the Hellhound inferno cannon, but that weapon is probably undercosted -- it's always hard to compare across Codexes, especially when a weapon only shows up on one vehicle and at least some of the cost may be included in the base model....

As for the base cost, yeah, I'd have thought that having a 6+ save would make a different, but it doesn't: Sororitas and Marine Rhinos are both 65 ppm without wargear, Razorbacks and Immolators (identical without wargear) are both 70. I think GW's logic is that each faction's special rules are, altogether, roughly equal in value.

Oh, and finally: Laud Hailers, as per the Dialogus rules, now give +1 to Ld within 6". I figured that was probably worth 10 points but I could be overcosting.

BURN IT DOWN BURN IT DOWN BABY BURN IT DOWN

 Psienesis wrote:
Well, if you check out Sister Sydney's homebrew/expansion rules, you'll find all kinds of units the Sisters could have, that fit with the theme of the Sisters (as a tabletop army) perfectly well, and are damn-near-perfectly balanced.

I’m updating that fandex now & I’m eager for feedback on new home-brew units for the Sisters: Sororitas Bikers, infiltrators & Novices, tanks, flyers, characters, superheavies, Frateris Militia, and now Confessors and Battle Conclave characters
My Novice Ginevra stories start with Bolter B-Word Privileges 
   
Made in us
Terrifying Rhinox Rider




what did you use for your Inferno cannon model? That’s good guidance for what it should do. I guess if you only have built one of the other two weapon mounts it doesn’t even matter how many d6 the flamer option has.
   
Made in us
Hurr! Ogryn Bone 'Ead!





Gainesville, VA

If you're giving it the Inferno cannon from the Hellhound, might want to also note that on a Hellhound that gives +2 to the "Explodes" rule roll - especially if you're giving it twin Inferno cannons!

Though to be honest, I don't really like the thought of Sisters with Main Battle Tanks. Just seems a bit off to me somehow; and with the flamers seems a bit close to the immolator.

If you want a MBT, I'd have just made a way to ally with Guard. Something like swap ASTRA MILITARUM for ADEPTUS MINISTORUM, and replace <REGIMENT> with FRATERIS MILITIA. Give them Shield of Faith and Zealot as the 'doctrine' equivalent; disallow commissars, psykers and abhumans and now you can have tanks. That's just me though.
   
Made in us
Monster-Slaying Daemonhunter





We have Exorcists. They're predators. Like, actually used to be 13/11/10 like preds, and are direct fire. They're not artillery, they're just tall enough to see over most obstacles so they can hide well and pretend to be artillery. They still have to see and be seen, though.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/03/02 20:10:22


Guardsmen, hear me! Cadia may lie in ruin, but her proud people do not! For each brother and sister who gave their lives to Him as martyrs, we will reap a vengeance fiftyfold! Cadia may be no more, but will never be forgotten; our foes shall tremble in fear at the name, for their doom shall come from the barrels of Cadian guns, fired by Cadian hands! Forward, for vengeance and retribution, in His name and the names of our fallen comrades! 
   
Made in us
Preacher of the Emperor






We have Exorcists, and I love them... but their job is to sit back and snipe things from 48", not to charge forward and flame/melta/bolter things to death, which is the Sisters' core competency. That's what these Predator variants are for. Yes, Penitent Engines and Mortifiers are technically vehicles that do those things too but the difference is these things are (wo)manned by Sisters and expected to survive. It's an unfilled tactical role in our army.

Besides, Marines and Guard have gak-tons of different tanks, why shouldn't we get two different types?

BURN IT DOWN BURN IT DOWN BABY BURN IT DOWN

 Psienesis wrote:
Well, if you check out Sister Sydney's homebrew/expansion rules, you'll find all kinds of units the Sisters could have, that fit with the theme of the Sisters (as a tabletop army) perfectly well, and are damn-near-perfectly balanced.

I’m updating that fandex now & I’m eager for feedback on new home-brew units for the Sisters: Sororitas Bikers, infiltrators & Novices, tanks, flyers, characters, superheavies, Frateris Militia, and now Confessors and Battle Conclave characters
My Novice Ginevra stories start with Bolter B-Word Privileges 
   
Made in us
Witch Hunter Undercover in a Cult







 SisterSydney wrote:
We have Exorcists, and I love them... but their job is to sit back and snipe things from 48", not to charge forward and flame/melta/bolter things to death, which is the Sisters' core competency. That's what these Predator variants are for. Yes, Penitent Engines and Mortifiers are technically vehicles that do those things too but the difference is these things are (wo)manned by Sisters and expected to survive. It's an unfilled tactical role in our army.

Besides, Marines and Guard have gak-tons of different tanks, why shouldn't we get two different types?


How often do you see aggro-Predators actually used, though? Skip over the FW v. plastic problem, how often do you see the Baal Predator used?

I also wonder if it might be better to try and make a tank that does something different, this profile would be in direct competition with the Immolator to do all the things the Immolator does. Sticking to the "holy trinity" theme what would happen if you stuck the melta-lance off an Armiger in the central hull mount off a Vindicator?

Balanced Game: Noun. A game in which all options and choices are worth using. 
   
Made in us
Preacher of the Emperor






That's a good question to which I do not have a good answer, since I don't have the Knights codex.... although if I did I couldn't help homebrewing Ecclesiarchy-affiliated Knightly Houses, so maybe that's just as well? If you could PM or post the weapon stats, I'd be very interested. From a quick web search, I’m seeing 30” Assault D3 S:8 AP:-4 D: D6 and the melta rule? Anyone know the point cost on that?


Kcalehc wrote:If you're giving it the Inferno cannon from the Hellhound, might want to also note that on a Hellhound that gives +2 to the "Explodes" rule roll - especially if you're giving it twin Inferno cannons!


Good point! I had completely missed that in the Guard 'dex.


Kcalehc wrote:Though to be honest, I don't really like the thought of Sisters with Main Battle Tanks. Just seems a bit off to me somehow; and with the flamers seems a bit close to the immolator.

If you want a MBT, I'd have just made a way to ally with Guard. Something like swap ASTRA MILITARUM for ADEPTUS MINISTORUM, and replace <REGIMENT> with FRATERIS MILITIA. Give them Shield of Faith and Zealot as the 'doctrine' equivalent; disallow commissars, psykers and abhumans and now you can have tanks. That's just me though.


I do wish it were possible to ally in Guard without losing faction benefits. I've homebrewed Frateris Militia in the past, but they strike me as more a barely organized rabble of zealots rather than a regular military force.


And finally: I see the argument that factions that have the option of aggressive Predators don't use them this way, but I'd still like to have the option. Homebrew isn't about optimization for victory -- or if it is, you're goin to annoy the hell out of other players -- but about trying new things.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/03/03 13:50:52


BURN IT DOWN BURN IT DOWN BABY BURN IT DOWN

 Psienesis wrote:
Well, if you check out Sister Sydney's homebrew/expansion rules, you'll find all kinds of units the Sisters could have, that fit with the theme of the Sisters (as a tabletop army) perfectly well, and are damn-near-perfectly balanced.

I’m updating that fandex now & I’m eager for feedback on new home-brew units for the Sisters: Sororitas Bikers, infiltrators & Novices, tanks, flyers, characters, superheavies, Frateris Militia, and now Confessors and Battle Conclave characters
My Novice Ginevra stories start with Bolter B-Word Privileges 
   
Made in us
Lesser Daemon of Chaos




New Orleans

Guard having a lot of tanks and vehicles is part of their schtick. If you’re a tread head, it’s the best army to take. Marines have a decent armor selection but it’s universally agreed that GW gives them more attention than any other line by far. Most armies are deliberately left without some sort of tactical role to give it a distinct feeling. Marines and eldar are the exception because one is designed to be good at a lot of things (lately that’s turned into great unfortunately) and the other is designed to have units that do one role very well.

Another alternative might be to let them use the land raider crusader/redeemer. Both are used by the Black Templar’s who are ideologically aligned with the sisters since both believe the emperor is divine. That would probably meet the desire to have a support vehicle designed to fight up close.

That being said, with the overall theme of your rules changes it seems like you may want to pickup a space marine army and use female heads for them.

Iron within, Iron without 
   
Made in us
Witch Hunter Undercover in a Cult







 SisterSydney wrote:
That's a good question to which I do not have a good answer, since I don't have the Knights codex.... although if I did I couldn't help homebrewing Ecclesiarchy-affiliated Knightly Houses, so maybe that's just as well? If you could PM or post the weapon stats, I'd be very interested. From a quick web search, I’m seeing 30” Assault D3 S:8 AP:-4 D: D6 and the melta rule? Anyone know the point cost on that?


That statline's correct. Cost is 0 since it's built into a one-loadout model. Closest parallels off the top of my head are the Skathach inferno lance (60pts for d6 shots at 24" range), the thermal cannon off the full-size Knight (76pts for d6 shots at 36" range and S9), and the fusion collider off the Ghostkeel (25pts, also d3 shots but only 18" range), from a quick eyeball ~35pts seems appropriate.

And finally: I see the argument that factions that have the option of aggressive Predators don't use them this way, but I'd still like to have the option. Homebrew isn't about optimization for victory -- or if it is, you're goin to annoy the hell out of other players -- but about trying new things.


Homebrew may not be about optimization for victory but you still want to make something you might want to use.

Balanced Game: Noun. A game in which all options and choices are worth using. 
   
Made in us
Monster-Slaying Daemonhunter





SisterSydney wrote:We have Exorcists, and I love them... but their job is to sit back and snipe things from 48", not to charge forward and flame/melta/bolter things to death, which is the Sisters' core competency. That's what these Predator variants are for. Yes, Penitent Engines and Mortifiers are technically vehicles that do those things too but the difference is these things are (wo)manned by Sisters and expected to survive. It's an unfilled tactical role in our army.

Besides, Marines and Guard have gak-tons of different tanks, why shouldn't we get two different types?


We have immolators, and preds aren't really aggressive chargey tanks either. Immolators are actually pretty good at being light tanks.

evil_kiwi_60 wrote:Guard having a lot of tanks and vehicles is part of their schtick. If you’re a tread head, it’s the best army to take. Marines have a decent armor selection but it’s universally agreed that GW gives them more attention than any other line by far. Most armies are deliberately left without some sort of tactical role to give it a distinct feeling. Marines and eldar are the exception because one is designed to be good at a lot of things (lately that’s turned into great unfortunately) and the other is designed to have units that do one role very well.

Another alternative might be to let them use the land raider crusader/redeemer. Both are used by the Black Templar’s who are ideologically aligned with the sisters since both believe the emperor is divine. That would probably meet the desire to have a support vehicle designed to fight up close.

That being said, with the overall theme of your rules changes it seems like you may want to pickup a space marine army and use female heads for them.


We used to have Land Raiders. They were taken away along with all the other stuff way back when and were never re-added.


I really think her idea isn't that "she should play space marines", so much as "GW just re-did the Sisters line, but it's still a really short line [only shorter line is Harlequins, I think] so what if we brain stormed a lot of units that could just add random units to it so we have at least close to as many options as most of the other factions." The issue isn't that we should play like space marines or want space marine options, it's that literally every other unit in the game is a space marine unit.

This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2020/03/04 03:26:44


Guardsmen, hear me! Cadia may lie in ruin, but her proud people do not! For each brother and sister who gave their lives to Him as martyrs, we will reap a vengeance fiftyfold! Cadia may be no more, but will never be forgotten; our foes shall tremble in fear at the name, for their doom shall come from the barrels of Cadian guns, fired by Cadian hands! Forward, for vengeance and retribution, in His name and the names of our fallen comrades! 
   
Made in us
Lesser Daemon of Chaos




New Orleans

 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:


We used to have Land Raiders. They were taken away along with all the other stuff way back when and were never re-added.


I really think her idea isn't that "she should play space marines", so much as "GW just re-did the Sisters line, but it's still a really short line [only shorter line is Harlequins, I think] so what if we brain stormed a lot of units that could just add random units to it so we have at least close to as many options as most of the other factions." The issue isn't that we should play like space marines or want space marine options, it's that literally every other unit in the game is a space marine unit.


Honestly I think splitting the inquisition forces (Sisters, Grey Knights, and to an extent Deathwatch) was a mistake.They all lost a bunch of options when that happened. I have the same reservations with separating the mono god legions. I was really bummed to have to ditch havoks from my death guard list.

Sisters have 21 options, which is a shorter line. They tie with custodes and are ahead of Knights (though that’s a weird army since it only has 5 kits and few models anyways). Harlequins have 14 but I don’t think the space clowns were ever expected to fill out a full 2000 point armies either. The mechanicus only has 25 options (including bundles) as well and many of those are in one kit so they’re about the same size. Every army could be more fleshed out in comparison to space marines. There are over 100 options on the site for them and they double out every army except the imperial guard who have 65 options.

I’m not saying Sisters shouldn’t have their line extended. I’d love to see it expand along with the xenos lines. But almost all the proposed rules along these threads have been selecting codex space marine units and putting SoB in them. I question the purpose of porting over the same units across armies like that.

Iron within, Iron without 
   
Made in hu
Pyromaniac Hellhound Pilot





 evil_kiwi_60 wrote:
I’m not saying Sisters shouldn’t have their line extended. I’d love to see it expand along with the xenos lines. But almost all the proposed rules along these threads have been selecting codex space marine units and putting SoB in them. I question the purpose of porting over the same units across armies like that.


Uhm... I guess you are aware that this is officially the case, you don't need homebrew units for it. The Exorcist is just a Blood Angel Razorback with limited weapon options and Sisters at the wheel. The Rhino... is the Rhino. The basic Battle Sisters Squad is SoB LARPings as a Salamanders Tactical Squad. The Retributors are almost the exact same as a Devastator Squad. The Rhino is a Rhino. I think the Repentia might be the only unit that does not have a Space Marine counterpart in some shape or form.

So yeah, a Sororitas Predator would be consistent with what the SoB has already. It probably wouldn't be called that tho but have some kind of cool name that implies horrible death (by fire!) for its enemies, like INCRAMATOR or something.

My armies:
14000 points 
   
Made in us
Lesser Daemon of Chaos




New Orleans

 AtoMaki wrote:


Uhm... I guess you are aware that this is officially the case, you don't need homebrew units for it. The Exorcist is just a Blood Angel Razorback with limited weapon options and Sisters at the wheel. The Rhino... is the Rhino. The basic Battle Sisters Squad is SoB LARPings as a Salamanders Tactical Squad. The Retributors are almost the exact same as a Devastator Squad. The Rhino is a Rhino. I think the Repentia might be the only unit that does not have a Space Marine counterpart in some shape or form.

So yeah, a Sororitas Predator would be consistent with what the SoB has already. It probably wouldn't be called that tho but have some kind of cool name that implies horrible death (by fire!) for its enemies, like INCRAMATOR or something.


The Exorcist is T8 and has zero transport capacity. The Razorback is T7 and has a 6 model transport capacity. Those two vehicles are night and day different from each other. The rhino is the same but there’s precedence for that being shared since the inquisition and arbites use it. And yes, sisters have line infantry and heavy weapons units.....just several other armies.

Iron within, Iron without 
   
Made in hu
Pyromaniac Hellhound Pilot





 evil_kiwi_60 wrote:
 AtoMaki wrote:


Uhm... I guess you are aware that this is officially the case, you don't need homebrew units for it. The Exorcist is just a Blood Angel Razorback with limited weapon options and Sisters at the wheel. The Rhino... is the Rhino. The basic Battle Sisters Squad is SoB LARPings as a Salamanders Tactical Squad. The Retributors are almost the exact same as a Devastator Squad. The Rhino is a Rhino. I think the Repentia might be the only unit that does not have a Space Marine counterpart in some shape or form.

So yeah, a Sororitas Predator would be consistent with what the SoB has already. It probably wouldn't be called that tho but have some kind of cool name that implies horrible death (by fire!) for its enemies, like INCRAMATOR or something.


The Exorcist is T8 and has zero transport capacity.


That's because I was thinking about the Immolator and not the Exorcist. My bad .

My armies:
14000 points 
   
Made in us
Lesser Daemon of Chaos




New Orleans

Ah that makes more sense

On another note, instead of using the predator, there is the option of using the exorcist as the base instead? I think that would help keep the distinction between armies and T8 would help get a close support vehicle close.

Iron within, Iron without 
   
Made in hu
Pyromaniac Hellhound Pilot





 evil_kiwi_60 wrote:
Ah that makes more sense

On another note, instead of using the predator, there is the option of using the exorcist as the base instead? I think that would help keep the distinction between armies and T8 would help get a close support vehicle close.


The Exorcist itself is based on the Space Marine Vindicator, so we wouldn't be much closer to being original, I suppose.

My armies:
14000 points 
   
Made in us
Hurr! Ogryn Bone 'Ead!





Gainesville, VA

 SisterSydney wrote:

I do wish it were possible to ally in Guard without losing faction benefits. I've homebrewed Frateris Militia in the past, but they strike me as more a barely organized rabble of zealots rather than a regular military force.

Well if you're homebrewing it, make it so you can!

I'm not against the Sisters having new units, they are a short line and have a few holes in their make up; I just think they need more unique and different units. Not sure what their niche is, or should be, but it needs to be different from just lady marines.

Here's one that came to me just now:
Spoiler:

Proclaimer
Stats and abilities as Sororitas Rhino, but no transport capacity.
Its a Rhino, filled with a choir of sisters, singing inspiring songs and stuff; its covered in loud speakers.

<ORDER> Sisters within 12" are so inspired, they get +1 on their Shield of Faith Rolls - both the save and the Deny test.
Enemy units within 12" suffer -2 Ld.
   
Made in us
Lesser Daemon of Chaos




New Orleans

Other than the chassis, the vindicator and the exorcist aren’t very similar. One is a short ranged siege cannon designed to be used in dense terrain. The other is effectively a tank, except they put missiles instead of a cannon. It doesn’t want to be close, the vindicator does.

For the proclaimer, do the buffs and debuffs stack with other peoclimers? If so you just take four and laugh as 20”” of your deployment enjoys a 2+ invul. Also consider making it -1LD at 12” and -2 at 6” and cap it at -3 .

Iron within, Iron without 
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut





Gut feeling is that the sponsons could be a little odd on a sisters vehicle, especially now that they have hull mounted weapons.

A heavy support immolator on the other hand is a blast from the past.

Have you considered an AA mount for the avenger option? It is the most distinct of the three and fills a gap in the lineup.

A magna melta is really just two multimeltas and the inferno cannon is oddly priced compared to heavy flamers. I'd be tempted to look for something a bit more crazy like the thundercoil harpoon, though perhaps that's a different tank entirely.
   
Made in us
Monster-Slaying Daemonhunter





AtoMaki wrote:
 evil_kiwi_60 wrote:
I’m not saying Sisters shouldn’t have their line extended. I’d love to see it expand along with the xenos lines. But almost all the proposed rules along these threads have been selecting codex space marine units and putting SoB in them. I question the purpose of porting over the same units across armies like that.


Uhm... I guess you are aware that this is officially the case, you don't need homebrew units for it. The Exorcist is just a Blood Angel Razorback with limited weapon options and Sisters at the wheel. The Rhino... is the Rhino. The basic Battle Sisters Squad is SoB LARPings as a Salamanders Tactical Squad. The Retributors are almost the exact same as a Devastator Squad. The Rhino is a Rhino. I think the Repentia might be the only unit that does not have a Space Marine counterpart in some shape or form.

So yeah, a Sororitas Predator would be consistent with what the SoB has already. It probably wouldn't be called that tho but have some kind of cool name that implies horrible death (by fire!) for its enemies, like INCRAMATOR or something.


Dominions, Seraphim too.

The Exorcist was a Predator, not a Razorback.

evil_kiwi_60 wrote:
 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:


We used to have Land Raiders. They were taken away along with all the other stuff way back when and were never re-added.


I really think her idea isn't that "she should play space marines", so much as "GW just re-did the Sisters line, but it's still a really short line [only shorter line is Harlequins, I think] so what if we brain stormed a lot of units that could just add random units to it so we have at least close to as many options as most of the other factions." The issue isn't that we should play like space marines or want space marine options, it's that literally every other unit in the game is a space marine unit.


Honestly I think splitting the inquisition forces (Sisters, Grey Knights, and to an extent Deathwatch) was a mistake.They all lost a bunch of options when that happened. I have the same reservations with separating the mono god legions. I was really bummed to have to ditch havoks from my death guard list.

Sisters have 21 options, which is a shorter line. They tie with custodes and are ahead of Knights (though that’s a weird army since it only has 5 kits and few models anyways). Harlequins have 14 but I don’t think the space clowns were ever expected to fill out a full 2000 point armies either. The mechanicus only has 25 options (including bundles) as well and many of those are in one kit so they’re about the same size. Every army could be more fleshed out in comparison to space marines. There are over 100 options on the site for them and they double out every army except the imperial guard who have 65 options.

I’m not saying Sisters shouldn’t have their line extended. I’d love to see it expand along with the xenos lines. But almost all the proposed rules along these threads have been selecting codex space marine units and putting SoB in them. I question the purpose of porting over the same units across armies like that.


That's because we're more "space marine" than either GK or DW.

I too would have wished for a combined Inquisition codex, but it shall not be so.

Guardsmen, hear me! Cadia may lie in ruin, but her proud people do not! For each brother and sister who gave their lives to Him as martyrs, we will reap a vengeance fiftyfold! Cadia may be no more, but will never be forgotten; our foes shall tremble in fear at the name, for their doom shall come from the barrels of Cadian guns, fired by Cadian hands! Forward, for vengeance and retribution, in His name and the names of our fallen comrades! 
   
Made in hu
Pyromaniac Hellhound Pilot





 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:

The Exorcist was a Predator, not a Razorback.


I think the Exorcist is a Vindicator: a heavy tank with one very big gun. The difference is that the former has more range but less power on the gun while the latter is the opposite. But I think this changed with the new dex because the Exorcist received a big firepower boost?

My armies:
14000 points 
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut





 AtoMaki wrote:
I think the Exorcist is a Vindicator: a heavy tank with one very big gun. The difference is that the former has more range but less power on the gun while the latter is the opposite. But I think this changed with the new dex because the Exorcist received a big firepower boost?
Las-predators and exorcists are long range support. Back in 4th-5th there was relatively little between the two - consider the predator got 3 shots (one twinlinked) while the exorcist averaged 3.5, with mobility and AP 1 countered by durability (more guns to lose) and S9.

Comparisons with the vindicator have only really come up with the change to the exorcists toughness in 8th. It's still very much sit back and shoot, having lost it's mobility bonus with the 8e rules changes to firing heavy weapons.
   
Made in us
Preacher of the Emperor






Lots of lively debate and good suggestions here —thanks all — I’ve been working like crazy this week so couldn’t get to this until now.

I’m definitely eager to come up with things that have a uniquely Sisters flavor rather than being “Marines Lite” or “Girl Marines.” It’s just easier to start with models and rules that already exist other than invent something entirely new, since GW doesn’t publish a point-build system for units. My old fandex had some unique things, some Sister-ized versions of Marine ground vehicles, and some Sister-ized versions of the Valkyrie & Avenger for fliers. But the more good ideas folks give me, the more we can make these units unique.

Sister-ness definitely includes letting vehicles buff other units, whether with Laud Hailers or whole choirs as per Kcalelhc’s suggestion. My old fandex had an “armoured pulpit” upgrade to let an embarked character use War Hymns etc., which I should recreate.

As for weapons load out: Anomander Rake’s suggestion of making the Melta option an Assault weapon fits MUCH better with the idea of a Sororitas-style in-your-face vehicle, given that Heavy weapons have -1 to fire and move.

As per Evil Kiwi’s suggestion, it’s also very attractive to use the Exorcist chassis (T:8 W:12) instead of the Predator/Rhino/Immolator (T:7 and either W:10 or W:11), both because it adds Sisterly flavor and holds up better in that in-your-face assault role.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/03/05 18:29:21


BURN IT DOWN BURN IT DOWN BABY BURN IT DOWN

 Psienesis wrote:
Well, if you check out Sister Sydney's homebrew/expansion rules, you'll find all kinds of units the Sisters could have, that fit with the theme of the Sisters (as a tabletop army) perfectly well, and are damn-near-perfectly balanced.

I’m updating that fandex now & I’m eager for feedback on new home-brew units for the Sisters: Sororitas Bikers, infiltrators & Novices, tanks, flyers, characters, superheavies, Frateris Militia, and now Confessors and Battle Conclave characters
My Novice Ginevra stories start with Bolter B-Word Privileges 
   
 
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