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New Sisters Characters: Customizable Canoness, Palatines, Grand Dialogus, Repentia Champion & more  [RSS] Share on facebook Share on Twitter Submit to Reddit
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Made in us
Preacher of the Emperor






You want a jump-pack Canoness? Palatines? Repentia characters? War Hymns on a Sister instead of those wimpy Preachers? HQ Hospitallers and Dialogi? A Sister who can call in artillery and airstrikes? Of course you do.

This post updates the HQ and Elite character options from my old fandex/expandex to be compatible with the new 8th edition Codex, with its very different character rules, while adding a few more. Rules and design notes on how I guesstimated point costs follow in spoiler tags to avoid Wall of Text. As always, I’m eager for feedback, especially people pointing out problems or suggesting changes.

I'm also still collecting critiques and suggestions for Sororitas Flyers, Sororitas Bikers, tanks & vehicle wargear, and Snipers & Novices.


***


WARGEAR

Add to Melee Weapons list (i.e. both characters and squad Superiors can take this)

Battle Censer (15 points)
Clouds of incense waft from the swinging censer, purifying the souls of the faithful and shrouding their bodies from enemy sights.
Melee S:+1 AP:-1 D:1
All models in this unit are considered to be in cover as long as it has neither advanced nor charged this turn.

Add to wargear list (i.e. characters may take these only when the option to do so is specified on their data sheet):

Blessed Eviscerator (8 points)
This massive two-handed chainsword cuts flesh and steel alike.
Melee S:x2 AP:-3 D:2
Abilities: When resolving an attack made with this weapon, subtract 1 from the hit roll.

Camo Cloak (character: 3 points)
When resolving an attack made with a ranged weapon against this character whilst it is receiving the benefit of cover, add 2 to the saving throw instead of 1.

Storm Shield (characters: 10 points)
A model with a storm shield has a 3+ invulnerable save.

Design Notes:
Spoiler:

Camo Cloak and Storm Shield are straight out of the Marine codex.

Battle Censer is an inferior Power Maul (so 3 pts instead of 4) that provides cover to maybe 10-15 models on average, but with strict movement restrictions, an ability I’d rate at 12 points.

Eviscerator:
Power Maul is S:+2 =5 AP:-1 D:1 for 4 pts, Blessed Blade is S:+2=5 AP:-3 D: D3=2 on average for 9 pts. Eviscerator is S:x2=6 AP:-3 D:2, plus a -1 to hit penalty, plus you can’t wield a pistol or chainsword at the same time, two major drawbacks, which balance out its greater strength a bit, so say 8 points.



***

HQ

*

HQ: New Canoness Options
With rare exceptions, every Canoness has fought in countless battles at lower ranks before rising to command her Sisters. Many Canonesses, indeed, have distinguished themselves in the Sisterhood’s elite units, and they retain these special skills and weapons in their new roles, from the hard-charging war bikes of the Heralds to the jump-packs of the Seraphim.
A Canoness may be upgraded to one of the following statlines by taking a Record of Service (see below):
Canoness Celestial: M:6” WS:2+ BS:2+ S:3 T:3 W:5 A:5 Ld:10 Sv:3+
Canoness Heraldic: M:16” WS:2+ BS:2+ S:3 T:4 W:6 A:4 Ld:9 Sv:3+
Canoness Seraphic: M:12” WS:2+ BS:2+ S:3 T:3 W:5 A:4 Ld:9 Sv:3+
Canoness Zephyric: M:12” WS:2+ BS:2+ S:3 T:3 W:5 A:5 Ld:10 Sv:3+
Spoiler:

Replace the Wargear Options in the Codex with the following:

This model may replace its chainsword with a Blessed Blade, Power Sword, or Power Maul.
This model may replace its chainsword and bolt pistol with a Blessed Eviscerator.
This model may replace its boltgun with 1 weapon from the Ranged Weapons list; 1 weapon from the Pistols list; a Brazier of Holy Fire; a Null Rod; a Rod of Office; or a Storm Shield.
This model may replace its bolt pistol with 1 weapon from the Pistols list.

This model may take a Record of Service:

Canoness Celestial (15 points):
Often a Canoness will pick one of her most promising subordinates to serve in her bodyguard so she can watch and guide her development at close hand. On the day her lifewards finally fail her, one will take her place.
This model uses the Canoness Celestial statline (gaining an additional Attack and an additional point of Leadership).

Canoness Dominant (10 points):
Dominions’ aggressive tactics mean many die even younger than other Sisters, but those that survive are among the Adepta’s boldest leaders, leading from the front with faith and fire.
This model gains the Vanguard ability.
It may replace its boltgun with 1 weapon from the Special Weapons list.
It uses the regular Canoness statline.

Canoness Heraldic (20 points):
While the Sisters of Battle revere the infantrywoman, some of their most dashing commanders come from the hard-riding bikers of the Herald corps.
This model loses the Infantry keyword and gains the Bike keyword.
It gains the Turbo-Boost and Divine Wind abilities.
It uses the Canoness Heraldic statline (gaining a Move of 16”, an additional point of Toughness, and an additional Wound).

Canoness Redemptia (15 points):
Most Adepta Sororitas who fall from grace into the ranks of the Repentia never rise again in this life — but those that do redeem themselves, purified by their own and enemies’ blood, inspire awe and no little fear among their Sisters.
This model gains the Zealot and Solace in Anguish abilities.
It uses the regular Canoness statline.

Canoness Retributant (15 points):
This Canoness is a hardened veteran of the Retributor gunline, her aim as steady amidst the storm of battle as the rock of faith itself.
This model gains the Relentless Advance and Rites of Fire special rules.
It may replace its boltgun with one weapon from the Heavy Weapons list.
It uses the regular Canoness statline.

Seraphic Record (25 points):
Many of the leaders of the Adepta Sororitas came from the exalted ranks of the Seraphim, soaring over the battlefield like killer angels to strike at the crucial point.
This model gains the Jump Pack and Fly keywords.
It gains the Sky Strike ability.
It uses the Canoness Seraphic statline (gaining a move of 12”).

Vigilant Record (15 points)
The silent sniper-infiltrators of the Vigil corps hold themselves from other Sisters, but the rare few who ascend to command ranks are exceptionally cold and calculating tacticians.
This model gains the Concealed Positions and Shadows Amidst The Gargoyles abilities.
It may take a camo cloak and replace its boltgun with an Excommunicator Boltgun.
It uses the regular Canoness statline.

Canoness Zephyric (35 points)
The most terrifyingly holy leaders of the Adepta Sororitas are veterans of the exalted Zephyrim, their bodies carried high above the earth by jump-packs and their minds by rapturous slaughter.
This model gains the Jump Pack and Fly keywords.
It gains the Sky Strike and Rapturous Blows abilities.
It uses the Canoness Zephyric statline (gaining Move of 12”, an additional Attack, and an additional point of Leadership).


Design Notes
Spoiler:

The rule of thumb I’ve used to cost these is a major stat increase (like A or T) or special ability (Vanguard) costs 10 points, a minor/situational one (like Ld or Zealot) costs five, and a Bike costs 20. Note that the Canoness Seraphic and Zephyric don’t get Angelic Visage, because its save bonus is redundant given their Rosarius save.


*

HQ: Palatine
(35 pm, 1-3 models per unit)
Most Orders Militant permit a Canoness to appoint Palatines to assist her in her duties, acting as aides-de-camp and subordinate commanders, and most Canonesses first prove themselves as Palatines. These subalterns vary widely, from battle-scarred former Sisters Superior to pious young prodigies barely out of their Novitiate, but all must demonstrate uncommon tactical skill, leadership potential, and zealous hatred. Some Palatines are promoted straight from the Battle Sister squads, others have served in the Sisterhood’s many specialized and elite units and bring those skills and wargear to their new rank, from the accurized Excommunication Bolter of a Vigil to the jump-pack and power sword of a Zephyrim.
Palatine Ordinary: M:6” WS:3+ BS:3+ S:3 T:3 W:4 A:3 Ld:8 Sv: 3+
Palatine Celestial: M:6” WS:3+ BS:3+ S:3 T:3 W:4 A:4 Ld:9 Sv: 3+
Palatine Heraldic: M:16” WS:3+ BS:3+ S:3 T:4 W:5 A:3 Ld:8 Sv:3+
Palatine Seraphic: M:12” WS:3+ BS:3+ S:3 T:3 W:4 A:3 Ld:8 Sv: 3+
Palatine Zephyric: M:12” WS:3+ BS:3+ S:3 T:3 W:4 A:4 Ld:9 Sv: 3+
Spoiler:

This unit contains 1 Palatine Ordinary. It can contain an additional 2 Palatine Ordinaries for 35 points each. Any model may be upgraded by taking a Record of Service (see below).
Every model is equipped with: bolt pistol; boltgun; chainsword; frag grenades; krak grenades.

Wargear Options:
Any model may replace its chainsword with a Power Sword or Power Maul.
Any model may replace its chainsword and bolt pistol with a Blessed Eviscerator.
Any model may replace its boltgun with 1 weapon from the Ranged Weapons list; 1 weapon from the Pistols list; a Brazier of Holy Fire; or a Storm Shield.
Any model may replace its bolt pistol with 1 weapon from the Pistols list.

Abilities:
Acts of Faith, Sacred Rites, Shield of Faith

Inspire the Righteous:
Reroll wound rolls of 1 for attacks made by friendly ORDER models whilst their unit is within 6” of this model.

Commandery Heroes:
During deployment, every model in this unit must be set up at the same time, though they do not need to be set up in unit coherency. From that point onwards, each model is treated as a separate unit.

This model may take a Record of Service:

Palatine Celestial (15 points):
This Palatine has excelled in the elite ranks of the Canoness’s Celestian bodyguard and has earned her chance to prove herself as a junior commander.
This model uses the Palatine Celestial statline (gaining an additional Attack and an additional point of Leadership).

Palatine Dominant (15 points):
This Palatine has risen from the Dominions and now leads their aggressive advances.
This model gains the Vanguard ability.
It may replace its boltgun with 1 weapon from the Special Weapons list.
It uses the Palatine Ordinary statline.

Palatine Heraldic (20 points):
This Palatine has risen from the ranks of the Herald Corps and rides a Sororitas Bike into battle.
This model loses the Infantry keyword and gains the Bike keyword.
It gains the Turbo-Boost and Divine Wind abilities.
It uses the Palatine Heraldic statline (gaining a Move of 16”, an additional point of Toughness, and an additional Wound).

Palatine Redemptia (15 points):
This Sister once sinned and expiated her guilt in the ranks of the Repentia. Now she has redeemed herself and not only re-earned her place among her Sisters but earned a chance to show her leadership.
This model gains the Zealot and Solace in Anguish abilities.
It uses the Palatine Ordinary statline.

Palatine Retributant (15 points):
This Palatine is a former Retributor and master markswoman who now leads the heavy weapons Sisters into battle.
This model gains the Relentless Advance and Rites of Fire special rules
It may replace its boltgun with one weapon from the Heavy Weapons list.
It uses the Palatine Ordinary statline.

Palatine Seraphic (30 points):
This Sister has distinguished herself even amidst the ranks of the elite Seraphim and ascended to the role of jump-pack Palatine.
This model gains the Jump Pack and Fly keywords.
It gains the Angelic Visage and Sky Strike abilities.
It uses the Palatine Seraphic statline (gaining a move of 12”).

Palatine Vigilant (15 points)
This Palatine is a stealthy sniper promoted from the ranks of the Vigils, able to lead her Sisters into battle without raising her voice above a whisper.
This model gains the Concealed Positions and Shadows Amidst The Gargoyles abilities.
It may take a camo cloak and replace its boltgun with an Excommunicator Boltgun.
It uses the Palatine Ordinary statline.

Palatine Zephyric (40 points)
This Palatine has proven her ability to think tactically even in the throes of the Zephyrim’s battle-rapture.
This model gains the Jump Pack and Fly keywords.
It gains the Angelic Visage, Sky Strike, and Rapturous Blows abilities.
It uses the Palatine Zephyric statline (gaining Move of 12”, an additional Attack, and an additional point of Leadership).


Design Notes:
Spoiler:

Designed to be the Lieutenant to the Canoness’s Captain. No, we don’t desperately need a cheaper HQ, but damn it, it’s fluffy.
Arguably, she could go down to 30 points, but her reroll-wounds ability seemed pretty comparable to other 35-ppm Sisters characters, and her statline is the same.


*

HQ: Grand Dialogus
(65 points, 1 model per unit)
Most Dialogi play a supporting role in battle, lifting the spirits and igniting the fervor of their more militant Sisters. Those rare Dialogi who ascend to command, however, are truly terrifying and inspirational leaders, able to sway the outcome of a combat by their words alone – or, as the Sisters see it, by their miraculous works of faith.
Spoiler:

M:6” WS:3+ BS:3+ S:3 T:3 W:5 A:3 Ld:9 Sv:3+

A Grand Dialogus is a single model equipped with a bolt pistol and a Dialogus staff.

Wargear Options:
This model may replace its bolt pistol with 1 weapon from the Pistols list.
This model may replace its Dialogus staff with a Null Rod.

Abilities:
Acts of Faith, Sacred Rites, Shield of Faith
Laud Hailer, Spiritual Fortitude, Stirring Rhetoric

Inspirational Leader
At the beginning of your turn, if this model is within 6” of any friendly Adepta Sorotitas unit, you may generate one additional Miracle Die.


Design Notes:
Spoiler:

Start with Dialogus (35 ppm)
+1 to WS, W, & Ld: 15 pts?
1 MD/turn: an incensor cherub costs 5 pts per MD but lets you roll twice , which this doesn’t, so say 4 pts/turn. Then, assuming she survives four turns in the average game, that’s 16 pts; round to 15.
Total: 35 + 15 + 15 = 65 points


*

HQ: Hospitaller Commander
(75 points, 1 model per unit)
The Orders Hospitaller typically spread their healing gifts across the Orders Militant, attaching a single Sister to a given frontline command. The brutalities of some war zones, however, require a concentrated effort to salvage lives, while in other cases a Hospitaller mission itself comes under threat. In such extreme situations, where multiple Hospitallers take the field at once, they are often lead by the most senior, skilled, and fervent of their number, who excel in both their individual skills and their ability to coordinate their sisters.
Spoiler:

M:6” WS:3+ BS:3+ S:3 T:3 W:5 A:3 Ld:9 Sv:3+

A Hospitaller Commander is a single model equipped with: bolt pistol; chirurgeon’s tools.

Wargear Options:
This model may replace its bolt pistol with 1 weapon from the Pistols list.

Abilities:
Acts of Faith, Sacred Rites, Shield of Faith

Magnus Medicus Ministorum
At the end of your Movement phase, this model can provide medical attention to one friendly IMPERIUM infantry unit within 3” of it. If that unit contains a model that has lost any wounds, that model regains D3 + 1 lost wounds.
Otherwise, if any models from that unit have been destroyed, you can return one destroyed model from that unit to the battlefield with two wounds remaining, or two such units with one wound remaining apiece. Such units must be placed within 3” of this model and in unit coherency (if the model cannot be placed in this way, it is not returned to the battlefield).

Coordinated Care
Two Hospitallers from this detachment may use their Medicus Ministorum ability to provide medical attention to the same unit in the same turn.


Design Notes:
Spoiler:

Start with Hospitaller (35 ppm)
+1 to WS, W, & Ld: 15 pts?
Superior healing powers: +10?
Boost to other Hospitallers: Assuming you’re using this character as HQ for a Vanguard detachment of 3 Hospitallers, say that’s a 5-point boost to each of them… say 15 pts.
Total: 35+15+10+15 = 75


***

ELITES

*

Elite: Repentia Champion
(45 points per model, 1 model per unit)
Sisters Repentia seek absolution in death — but sometimes they survive. A handful even endure battle after battle. Some of their Sisters see these veterans as failures, incapable even of dying properly, but the most see their survival as a sign of grace, and their leadership, however informal, inspires their fellow Repentia as effectively as any Mistress’s lash. Indeed, often the Sisterhood would welcome a veteran Repentia back into their ranks, redeemed by countless battles, but her own shame is too deep to accept forgiveness.
Spoiler:

M:6” WS:3+ BS:3+ S:3 T:3 W:4 A:4 Ld:8 Sv:7+

A Repentia Champion is a single modeled equipped with Penitent Eviscerator.

Wargear Options: None.

Abilities:
Acts of Faith, Sacred Rites, Shield of Faith
Zealot

Inspiration to the Penitent
If your army is battle-forged, this model does not take up any slots in a detachment that includes any ORDER Sisters Repentia unit.
You can re-roll Advance and Charge rolls made for friendly ORDER Sisters Repentia units whilst they are within 6” of this model. You can re-roll wound rolls of 1 for attacks made with melee weapons by models in friendly ORDER Sisters Repentia units whilst their unit is within 6” of this model.

Condemned To Live
When this model would lose a wound, roll one D6: On a 4+, that wound is not lost.

Outcast
This model may never take a Relic or have a Warlord Trait.


Design Notes
Spoiler:

Start with Repentia Superior (35 ppm)
Replace Neural Whip, pistol, and grenades with Eviscerator: probably a wash, so 0 pts?
Replace 3+/6++ save with 7+/6++/4++ FNP…. basically the Superior has a 33% chance of NOT saving an AP:0 normal wound and a 83% chance of NOT saving a mortal wound, whilst the Champion has a (5/6)(3/6) = 44% chance of NOT saving either. (I find the math is easier this way, since the Superior uses one save or the other, while the Champion’s are cumulative). Given that people don’t normally want to waste high-AP weapons on infantry, I’d say the Superior’s saves are better in most practical situations….so, say, -5 points?
But then Zealot’s pretty damn good for a melee character, so I’d give that +10 points.
And Outcast is a very minor restriction, so zero points.


*

Elite: Sister Chorister
(40 points, 1 model per unit)
All Sisters of Battle are trained to sing hymns to the God-Emperor as they work, make war, and perish. Only those with the purest voices, hearts, and hatred, however, are selected for the intense choral training and indoctrination that earns them the title of "Sister Chorister." While less tactically sophisticated than those selected for the rank of Sister Superior, the Choristers complement the Superiors' military experience with their religious zeal. Their pure, sweet voices carry high above the roar of battle, inspiring their Sisters to kill and die in the Emperor's name, while the growl of their chainswords provides the bass line.
Spoiler:

M:6” WS:3+ BS:3+ S:3 T:3 W:4 A:3 Ld:8 Sv: 3+

A Sister Chorister is a single model equipped with bolt pistol; frag grenades; krak grenades; chainsword.

Wargear options:
This model may replace its chainsword with a power sword, power maul, or battle censer.

Abilities:
Acts of Faith, Sacred Rites, Shield of Faith
Zealot, Icon of the Ecclesiarchy, War Hymns


Design Notes:
Spoiler:

A preacher’s special rules on an Imagifier’s statline. War Hymns in particular seems as useful as one of the Imagifier’s Litanies, but this model can only do one thing, without the Imagifier’s flexibility, so I discounted the Chorister five points.


*

Elite: Sister Signaler
(35 points, 1 model per unit)
As proud of their prowess as the Sisters of Battle are, their wiser commanders appreciate the limited range of their Holy Trinity of weapons and do not hesitate to call on other branches of the Imperium for supporting fire: the orbiting monitors of the Ecclesiarchy’s sacred fleet, the capital ships of the Imperial Navy, the bombers of the Aeronautica Imperialis, or the massed artillery batteries of the Imperial Guard..
Spoiler:

M:6” WS:3+ BS:3+ S:3 T:3 W:4 A3 Ld:8 Sv: 3+

A Sister Signaller is a single model equipped with boltgun; frag grenades; krak grenades;

Wargear Options: This model may replace its boltgun with a bolt pistol.

Strafing Coordinates
At the start of the Shooting phase, pick an enemy unit that does not have the Fly keyword and is within 18” of this model. For the duration of this phase, you can re-roll hit rolls of 1 for any friendly Aeronautica Imperialis or Adepta Sororitas Fliers that target the unit you picked.

Artillery Barrage:
Range: 100” Heavy D6 S:8 AP:-2 D: D3
This weapon can only be fired once per battle. This weapon can target units that are not visible to the bearer, but when doing so, subtract 1 from the hit rolls.
You may only use one artillery barrage per turn, regardless of how many Sisters Signaler and/or Astra Militarum Masters of Ordnance you have in your army.


Design notes:
Spoiler:

She’s a hybrid of Master of Ordnance and the Office of the Fleet from the IG codex: Specifically, she has the MoO’s once-per-battle ability and the OooF’s once-per-turn ability, but not their other abilities. Those are basic 20-point Guard characters, so I figure she’s a basic 35-point Sororitas character.


*

***

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/04/05 12:19:43


BURN IT DOWN BURN IT DOWN BABY BURN IT DOWN

 Psienesis wrote:
Well, if you check out Sister Sydney's homebrew/expansion rules, you'll find all kinds of units the Sisters could have, that fit with the theme of the Sisters (as a tabletop army) perfectly well, and are damn-near-perfectly balanced.

I’m updating that fandex now & I’m eager for feedback on new home-brew units for the Sisters: Sororitas Bikers, infiltrators & Novices, tanks, flyers, characters, superheavies, Frateris Militia, and now Confessors and Battle Conclave characters
My Novice Ginevra stories start with Bolter B-Word Privileges 
   
Made in us
Rotting Sorcerer of Nurgle





In My Lab

Do not allow multiple wounded models in one unit.
It breaks the game.

Clocks for the clockmaker! Cogs for the cog throne! 
   
Made in us
Preacher of the Emperor






I presume you’re talking about the Hospitaller Commander? Can you explain what it is about healing multiple wounded models in a single unit in a single phase that’s potentially game-breaking? Thanks.

BURN IT DOWN BURN IT DOWN BABY BURN IT DOWN

 Psienesis wrote:
Well, if you check out Sister Sydney's homebrew/expansion rules, you'll find all kinds of units the Sisters could have, that fit with the theme of the Sisters (as a tabletop army) perfectly well, and are damn-near-perfectly balanced.

I’m updating that fandex now & I’m eager for feedback on new home-brew units for the Sisters: Sororitas Bikers, infiltrators & Novices, tanks, flyers, characters, superheavies, Frateris Militia, and now Confessors and Battle Conclave characters
My Novice Ginevra stories start with Bolter B-Word Privileges 
   
Made in us
Rotting Sorcerer of Nurgle





In My Lab

It’s not overpowered-it’s just not something that’s supposed to happen, and the game can’t handle it by RAW.

Clocks for the clockmaker! Cogs for the cog throne! 
   
Made in us
Lesser Daemon of Chaos




New Orleans

Battle Censer could get stupidly good. You’ll almost always have a 2+ save against shooting. You can add in the order trait that ignores AP-1 and easily upgrade that to ignoring AP-2. Suddenly only AP-4 is the only efficient armor penetration against your basic infantry.

Storm shield proliferation should be curtailed, not encouraged. I honestly don’t think those need to be in the sisters wargear lineup.

I don’t see your logic on making the eviscerator less points than a blessed blade. The characteristics make itbetter than a blessed blade. The drawbacks you list are pretty much inconsequential. I’d say 9 points for non characters and 12 for a character.

Would the Canoness sub-variants allow them to work around the rule of three or they all under the Canoness datsheet?

The palatine seems like an example of space marines have this so we should have it too. Also it now gives even easier access to large detachments since you now added a cheaper HQ and troops option.

I agree that bringing back multiple models with one wound is a bad concept. The allocation of wounds is clear that any model with a wound must take the next wound but now there are two models with wounds remaining.

Repent is champion has a 4+++ and character protection. That’s an incredibly hard character to kill. Said character is very cheap and packs a mean punch. I think you need to reduce is to a 5+++

The sister chorister is just a buff to the priest. Units shouldn’t be designed to invalidate units already in the codex.

The signaler takes the best aspects of the master of the fleet and the master of ordnance but does them both for cheaper than the cost of the other two. I don’t think there’s a heavy need for this unit or it’s abilities in a SoB army

Iron within, Iron without 
   
Made in us
Preacher of the Emperor






Aha, I think I get the issue with the Hospitaller Commander now: As written, she can leave you with a unit that has two wounded models in it, which makes it impossible to follow the rule about always allocating wounds to the most-wounded model. Very good catch, thanks! I could rewrite her special rule to patch that fairly easily, I think:

Magnus Medicus Ministorum (revisions in italics)
Spoiler:

At the end of your Movement phase, this model can provide medical attention to one friendly IMPERIUM infantry unit within 3” of it. If that unit contains a model that has lost any wounds, that model regains D3 + 1 lost wounds.
Otherwise, if any multi-wound models from that unit have been destroyed, you can return one destroyed model from that unit to the battlefield with two wounds remaining. If any single-wounded models from that unit have been destroyed, you may return two such units to the battlefield with their one wound restored. Such units must be placed within 3” of this model and in unit coherency (if the model cannot be placed in this way, it is not returned to the battlefield).


Does that attempted fix create any new breakdowns I'm not seeing, though?

As for Evil Kiwi's other excellent points:

 evil_kiwi_60 wrote:
Battle Censer could get stupidly good. You’ll almost always have a 2+ save against shooting. You can add in the order trait that ignores AP-1 and easily upgrade that to ignoring AP-2. Suddenly only AP-4 is the only efficient armor penetration against your basic infantry.


Ah, yeah, I didn't think through all the ways that could stack. Hmmmm. I suppose I could make it a -1 to the hit roll when someone's shooting at this unit instead, which is also pretty powerful but at least doesn't create the same compounding problems.....I think....

Storm shield proliferation should be curtailed, not encouraged. I honestly don’t think those need to be in the sisters wargear lineup.


Fair that the game is already overrun with invulnerable saves.....

I don’t see your logic on making the eviscerator less points than a blessed blade. The characteristics make itbetter than a blessed blade. The drawbacks you list are pretty much inconsequential. I’d say 9 points for non characters and 12 for a character.


Hmmm. Going from S:5 to S:6 does let you double-out T:3 models, which is a huge deal (unless you're fighting Marines). Yeah, I think you're right.

Would the Canoness sub-variants allow them to work around the rule of three or they all under the Canoness datsheet?


Honestly, if you and your opponent are willing to play with homebrewed units, the rule of three isn't much of an obstacle -- but I would say no, they all count as Canonesses for Rule Of Three purposes: If you want to break the rule of three, let's not do that by a sneaky backdoor, let's make it explicit.

The palatine seems like an example of space marines have this so we should have it too. Also it now gives even easier access to large detachments since you now added a cheaper HQ and troops option.


Here I'll actually disagree with you for a change. It's a less powerful HQ for 10 less points -- I don't think that's a huge difference in farming of cheap HQs. And my thinking was actually I was really tired of multi-Canoness detachments when fluff says Canonesses are senior commanders, and that Palatines are well-established Sororitas characters back to Codex: Witch Hunters.

Repent is champion has a 4+++ and character protection. That’s an incredibly hard character to kill. Said character is very cheap and packs a mean punch. I think you need to reduce is to a 5+++


Hmmmm. I was mainly thinking I wanted her to be a step more survivable than regular Repentia, hence 4+++ instead of 5+++, but yes, I really wasn't factoring how hard it is to target characters in the first place. Snipers aside, you're probably right.

The sister chorister is just a buff to the priest. Units shouldn’t be designed to invalidate units already in the codex.


Ok, here's another point of disagreement. I drove me nuts last edition that the super-nifty War Hymns were on a model that wasn't even a Sister. They're nowhere near as powerful this edition -- Litanies have really taken their place -- but I still want to get the option for War Hymns without taking some dude in a robe. And this is a place where 10 points (30 vs 40) actually matters.

The signaler takes the best aspects of the master of the fleet and the master of ordnance but does them both for cheaper than the cost of the other two. I don’t think there’s a heavy need for this unit or it’s abilities in a SoB army


Partially agree. I can certainly up her price, but given our huge lack of long-range firepower, I think this is actually a useful gap-filler.

BURN IT DOWN BURN IT DOWN BABY BURN IT DOWN

 Psienesis wrote:
Well, if you check out Sister Sydney's homebrew/expansion rules, you'll find all kinds of units the Sisters could have, that fit with the theme of the Sisters (as a tabletop army) perfectly well, and are damn-near-perfectly balanced.

I’m updating that fandex now & I’m eager for feedback on new home-brew units for the Sisters: Sororitas Bikers, infiltrators & Novices, tanks, flyers, characters, superheavies, Frateris Militia, and now Confessors and Battle Conclave characters
My Novice Ginevra stories start with Bolter B-Word Privileges 
   
Made in us
Lesser Daemon of Chaos




New Orleans

-1 to hit is even better than +1 cover. Now every shooting weapons looses efficiency when targeting that unit and the ignoring cover bonus cannot get around it. 15 points basically buys you another subfaction ability. It’s probably better to leave it as just a melee weapon and drop it to 4 pts.

For the palatine, I just see them being the base of a loyal 17. Take three minimum squads of novices plus two palatines would only cost 100 points. I’m pretty sure that would be the cheapest BN in the game. Almost any brand of imperial soup would love to get that.

You could let the repentia character reroll any rolls of 1 to save a wound instead.

Priests seem rather fitting in Adeptus Ministorum related formations. 5 points is very cheap for a better save, better weapon skill, and ballistic skill. Why would you ever take a priest with this option available?

I don’t think it’s bad for armies to have a gap in what they cover. Between the exorcist and the aircraft options, the sisters aren’t exactly hurting for long range options.

Iron within, Iron without 
   
Made in us
Preacher of the Emperor






Good points; I'll ponder. First thing: I've actually been thinking of making 10 the minimum squad size for Novices, in which case a minimum battalion of them would be slightly more expensive than for Guard....But I'm also planning to homebrew up Frateris Militia, who'll be Guard-cheap, though they'd come in 10s at a minimum and more likely Conscript-sized blobs. Now at least I'll be thinking of how to prevent cheap CP-farming detachments.

2) The Battle Censer may be unsalvageable, honestly. It's redundant unless I can figure out something for the cloud of incense to do in game terms that's neither OP nor useless. Ideas welcome because I like the idea of it....

3) The current Chorister is actually 10 points more expensive than a Priest, actually. She's five points less expensive than the Imagifier, with the a better weapons mix for close combat (CCW & bolt pistol vice a boltgun), the same statline, and a special ability that's as good as any one Litany, but not as good as the ability to pick and choose Litanies before a given battle, hence the discount.
I'm just not too exercised about her displacing the Preacher, honestly. I don't like the model and the fluff says Sisters can sign their own dang murder-hymns, thank you very much.

BURN IT DOWN BURN IT DOWN BABY BURN IT DOWN

 Psienesis wrote:
Well, if you check out Sister Sydney's homebrew/expansion rules, you'll find all kinds of units the Sisters could have, that fit with the theme of the Sisters (as a tabletop army) perfectly well, and are damn-near-perfectly balanced.

I’m updating that fandex now & I’m eager for feedback on new home-brew units for the Sisters: Sororitas Bikers, infiltrators & Novices, tanks, flyers, characters, superheavies, Frateris Militia, and now Confessors and Battle Conclave characters
My Novice Ginevra stories start with Bolter B-Word Privileges 
   
Made in us
Lesser Daemon of Chaos




New Orleans

10 for the novices wouldn’t be bad option. It at least pulls it above the cheapest formation. Another option might be to make novices like the Black Templar neophytes. You take them with a SoB squad and you have to have one full sister for each novice.

I’m struggling to find something to give it under the same guidelines. Maybe reroll wound rolls of 1? Basically make it a plague weapon but for the corpses worshippers. 6pts in total. That or offer a series of “anointed weapons” that reroll wounds of 1?

Granted to don’t have the current sisters book with me but where I checked priests were listed as 35. Maybe that was index priced, I don’t know. I get wanting to build fluffy units but for game balance you have to consider when you make a better unit for a small cost. This may be one where a proxy model would work better rather than a new unit that does the exact same thing but better.

Iron within, Iron without 
   
Made in us
Preacher of the Emperor






Thanks, I've fixed the Novice squad in their thread.
I'll have to agree-to-disagree about the Chorister -- I'll include it in the fandex/expandex and people who don't like it don't have to allow it, like any homebrew unit.
And I think I'll just make the Battle Censer exclusively available to Missionaries and the (soon to be updated for 8th) Confessor; they only have a 4++ save, so being always in cover just takes them to 3+. I think....

Finally, here's the Page, a unit I proposed in the Novices thread that didn't get much response there, but I'll ask about it over here too. It's too complicated, I know, so I'm eager for help improving it -- even if it's only just simplifying it so it's the Sororitas equivalent of a familiar:

Elite: Page
Especially favored Novices accompany Adepta Sororitas officers into battle, carrying their mistress's extra weapons -- and their touching, childlike faith helps them bear their spiritual burdens as well.
(10 points per model, 1 model per unit)
Page M:6” WS:4+ BS:3+ S:3 T:3 W:1 A:1 Ld:6 Sv:4+

A Page is a single model equipped with: bolt pistol; frag grenades; krak grenades.

Wargear Options: none (but see Arms-Bearer below)

Abilities:
Acts of Faith, Sacred Rights, Shield of Faith

Page Girl
Your army may include one Page for each Adepta Sororitas character. If your army is Battle Forged, a Page never takes up a slot in any Detachment.
Before each game, for each Page, designate one Adepta Sororitas character as that Page’s Mistress. Each Page must set up within 2” of her designated Mistress and remain within 2” of her Mistress throughout the game, as if they were part of the same unit.
As long as a Page is within 2" of her Mistress, she may use her Mistress's Leadership for all tests.
If a Page moves more than 2” away from her Mistress for any reason, she loses the Acts of Faith, Sacred Rights, Shield of Faith, and Arms-Bearer abilities until she and her MIstress are in unit coherency again. If a Page’s Mistress is killed, the Page loses these abilities permanently.

Arms-Bearer
The Page may carry one of the following for her Mistress, paying the normal points cost: 1 item from the Melee Weapons list, 1 item from the Ranged Weapons list, an Eviscerator; a Brazier of Holy Fire; a Null Rod; or a Storm Shield.
The Page may never use this wargear. However, as long as the Page is within 2” of her Mistress, the Mistress may use this wargear instead of any one other item the Mistress is equipped with.

Touching Faith
As long as the Page is within 2” of her Mistress, you may perform one Act of Faith this turn for the Mistress, even if you have already performed an Act this turn.

Faction Keywords:
Imperium, Adeptus Ministorum, Adepta Sororitas, ORDER

Keywords:
Infantry, Page


Design Notes
Spoiler:

Start with a Novice at 6ppm ( from this thread
She loses her boltgun and can’t take a chainsword, so -1 point.
Touching Faith basically gives her a Simulacrum, so +5 points.
And the ability to carry extra wargear — which you pay for — is basically a gimmick, so 0 pts.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/04/08 13:32:24


BURN IT DOWN BURN IT DOWN BABY BURN IT DOWN

 Psienesis wrote:
Well, if you check out Sister Sydney's homebrew/expansion rules, you'll find all kinds of units the Sisters could have, that fit with the theme of the Sisters (as a tabletop army) perfectly well, and are damn-near-perfectly balanced.

I’m updating that fandex now & I’m eager for feedback on new home-brew units for the Sisters: Sororitas Bikers, infiltrators & Novices, tanks, flyers, characters, superheavies, Frateris Militia, and now Confessors and Battle Conclave characters
My Novice Ginevra stories start with Bolter B-Word Privileges 
   
Made in us
Monster-Slaying Daemonhunter





Transcribed from where I was specifically called for to answer:

I think all the canoness sub-types are pretty unnecessary:
- Canonesses were already Celestians. Like the Space Marines, Sisters of Battle generally use "rule of badass" for promotion, and Celestians are just the title for Veteran BSS.
- The doesn't play nice with Dominions problem could be solves much more elegantly by changing Vanguard to read along the lines of: If this unit is mounted in a transport that contains only models with this rule and CHARACTERS, then the transport gains this rule." [Dom's also lost the clause this is modifying anyway, a long fall from the days of "this unit must buy a dedicated transport".]
- Finally the Canoness isn't a unit champion. She's a field commander [approximately at Company level: Captain or Major]. She definitely shouldn't be just randomly taking the equipment loadouts of other units just because she can. Especially heavy weapons. In general, if your commander is shooting, they're not commanding, so we don't give the M2 to a General. 40k is special because they give out melee weapons 'cause of rule of badass. Either way, she shouldn't be a sniper or ret.

Also, the Eviscerator already exists as a Legends option: it's 11 points for Sx2, AP-4, D1d3, Subtract 1 from hit rolls. Just return it from Legends.

I might go along the lines of:
This unit may replace her Bolt Pistol with a weapon from the Ranged Weapons or Pistols list.
This unit may replace her Chainsword with a weapon from the Melee Weapons or Pistols list, or a Blessed Blade.
This unit may replace her Bolt Pistol and Chainsword for an Eviscerator.
This unit may take one of a Rod of Office, Null Rod, or Brazier of Holy Fire.
This unit may buy a Jump Pack for 19 points. if she does so, her movement characteristic becomes 12" and she gains the FLY keyword.


For the Palantine, she was formerly a Sisters' Lieutenant way back in the day [Space Marines had already lost theirs, though]. She generated 1 less Faith Point, and had -1 A, W, and Ld [at that time, Canoness was also WS4]
Palantine: 35 points. This unit contains 1 Adepta Sororitas Palantine, equipped with a Bolt Pistol and a Chainsword
M6", WS2+, BS3+, S3, T3, W4, A3, Ld8, Sv3+/6++
Acts of Faith, Shield of Faith
You may re-roll Wound Rolls of 1 for friendly [ORDER] units within 6" of this model.
This unit may replace her Bolt Pistol with a weapon from the Ranged Weapons or Pistols list.
This unit may replace her Chainsword with a weapon from the Melee Weapons or Pistols list, or a Blessed Blade.
This unit may replace her Bolt Pistol and Chainsword for an Eviscerator.
This unit may buy a Jump Pack for 19 points. if she does so, her movement characteristic becomes 12" and she gains the FLY keyword.



Finally, for all the veteran variants of the Command Squad Characters, are they really necessary? They're not even Sisters of Battle. They belong to the Adepta Sororitas, but are part of the non-militant orders Dialogus, Hospitaller, and Familious who have been dragged along with the Canoness as her retinue both as a show of support to the Order Militant from the other orders, the political prestige of having their agents as the Canoness's retinue, and because the Canoness wanted a medic.

On the signaler: we don't have off-map artillery [we have some kind of air support but I'm not sure what it is. It's probably just Thunderhawks, or like our Rhinos now apparently, Space Marine hand-me-downs older models of their flyers.] We'll probably never have artillery, since it's not part of our doctrine. We do have independent fleets though IIRC [plus whatever the Ordo Hereticus managed to commandeer], so a better implementation of off-map support for us would be the Space Marine orbital strike stratagem.

I don't know if we need a Lone Wolf Repentia, and given that Lone Wolves are now a stratagem instead of a unit, Lone Wolf for a Repentia might also be better as a Stratagem than a unit.

A lot of these latter single character units are just super-versions of other units that would be better represented by stratagems like "Master of the Forge" and "Master of Sanctity" rather than a separate unit. As a separate unit, their either are useless next to or outright obsolete their parent unit, since they're basically directly in overlap.





To the person who proposed having recruits as add-on squires to squads, like the BT system, I actually really like that. That would be pretty flavorful, and like a million times better aesthetically and thematically than all the dead babies the squads come with now [seriously, what am I going to do with this pile of dead babies. Maybe make objective markers.]. It would probably require re-tooling squad sizes to prevent a squad from being a massive conscript-sized horde of power armor. Maybe something like:
A Battle Sisters squad may include 1 Initiate per 1 Battle Sister or Battle Sister Superior in the squad for 8 points each, up to a maximum of 5. An Initiate is equipped with a Boltgun.
Initiate: M6", WS4+, BS4+, S3, T3, A1, W1, Ld6, Sv3+
The removal of this model as a casualty does not count when counting casualties in the morale phase.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2020/04/08 15:49:32


Guardsmen, hear me! Cadia may lie in ruin, but her proud people do not! For each brother and sister who gave their lives to Him as martyrs, we will reap a vengeance fiftyfold! Cadia may be no more, but will never be forgotten; our foes shall tremble in fear at the name, for their doom shall come from the barrels of Cadian guns, fired by Cadian hands! Forward, for vengeance and retribution, in His name and the names of our fallen comrades! 
   
Made in us
Hurr! Ogryn Bone 'Ead!





Gainesville, VA

 SisterSydney wrote:


2) The Battle Censer may be unsalvageable, honestly. It's redundant unless I can figure out something for the cloud of incense to do in game terms that's neither OP nor useless. Ideas welcome because I like the idea of it....


Some potential uses for this, going off the fluff description:

- Reduce charge distance of enemies, by 2" (smoke making them misjudge the distance)
- Something I've never seen anywhere: Reduce Pile in and Consolidate moves of enemies in combat with this unit by 1" (all that confusing smoke and whatnot!)
- If a unit within 3" of this unit is targeted by a shooting attack, and this unit is closer to the enemy that is making the shooting attack, reduce all hit rolls by -1 (similar to a PA guard stratagem, shooting through the smoke sort of thing)


I like the page idea: though her not being a character, means she'll be dead very quickly most likely; and she'll take up a space in a transport, which might get awkward perhaps. Might be worth just making the Page a wargear option for the Canoness, kind of like a cherub (so its a model, but not a unit).

The Palatine ability seems pretty good, though I might see it trimmed down to only ORDER INFANTRY (with the Herald gaining its use on BIKER). Maybe also limit to 1 Palatine unit, for each Canoness in a detachment; so its not taken as the only HQ choice.

The Signaler, I like, coordinating with other Imperial Armies is a really good concept. Might swap out Strafing Coordinates with Air Raid Requested and not allow both to be used on the same turn; as if you didn't bring any fliers, that ability would be useless. Or add it and bump the points a bit. Or simply for fewer points, have those stats, and choose one ability from the list of three at the start of the game and live with that.

The Repentia Champion, is very much like the Repentia Superior, same ability more or less. Might want to add Martyrdom to her. I'd make inspiration to the penitent something different; maybe: If this unit kills one or more enemy models in the Fight phase, until the start of their next turn any Sisters Repentia units within 3" may re-roll any failed Solace in Anguish rolls (or maybe pass morale checks, one of the two)
   
Made in us
Preacher of the Emperor




Tacoma, WA, USA

I’ve gone over the various character’s and here’s my thoughts:

Canoness: The Records of Service are unnecessary and unthematic. As Inquisitor Lord Katherine noted, the Canoness is a leader not a specialist. Wargear options are one thing, but bunches of add-on abilities that can be covered either via Stratagems or Relics are just rules for rules sake. Updating the wargear option to include those from Legends (which includes the Eviscerator) along with a Jump Pack (and Bike if you are into that) option are all I see as really appropriate.

Palatine: Again, no need for all the various types of Palatines, more rules for rules sake. Use the Canoness above as the basis, swapping out the Aura with slightly worst stats (somewhere between the other Sororatis Characters and the Canoness).

Grand Dialogus: The non-militant orders shouldn’t really have better than militant character statlines. It’s just not what they do. As for the ability, there are already several ways to gain additional Miracle Dice in the Codex, including a Warlord Trait, which you don’t want to stomp over. Any ability of a Grand Dialogus should stay in the realm of the established abilities to modify Miracle Dice, impact Chaos/Psyhic Powers, or improve Morale.

Hospitaller Commander: Again, the non-militant orders shouldn’t really have better than militant character statlines. It’s just not what they do. As for the ability, Stratagem or Relic for a Hospitaller? Also, the abilities can be written to take the normal rules into account better. I’d suggest a Stratagem like this instead of the entire character:

Hospitaller Superior (1 CP): Use this stratagem on a Hospitaller unit when creating your list. The Hospitaller gains the Hospitaller Superior keyword. Additional target of this unit’s Medicus Ministorum regains 3 wounds instead of d3 wounds if there is an injured model or returns a destroyed model with 2 wounds if there are no injured models in the unit. If the target unit only includes models with 1 wound each, return up to 2 destroyed models to the unit instead of 1. You may only use this Stratagem once.

Repentia Champion: A Repentia character? I’m not really feeling this one. We don’t need character versions of every unit in the game. A character who falls into Repentia because one of the unworthy masses and either dies or because redeemed and returns to their former path, assuming they aren’t locked in a Mortifier.

Sister Chorister: Sisters of Battle aren’t priest. Female Priest are not Sisters of Battle.

Sister Signaler: Sister of Battle are not part of the Imperial Guard or Imperial Navy. They don’t train the same and they don’t integrate into their chain of command. That would be a violation of the Decree Passive.

Page: So much text for so little effect. If you want to give a character an additional weapon, there has to be a cleaner way to do it than this. Maybe a wargear option not unlike the Cheribs would be best?
   
Made in us
Preacher of the Emperor






Lots of insightful & helpful critique. My apologies for not replying sooner, but as a reporter covering the real-life US Army, COVID-19 and procurement contracts ate my week, so this my first chance to reply as thoughtfully as your posts deserve.

1. Customizable Canonesses & Palatines
I'll definitely trim down the types: "former Celestian" is redundant (as well as a bit OP) since that's the default career path, as Lord Katherine pointed out, and I don't need two flavors of jump pack canoness.
That said, I really like the idea of customization based on character having had a non-standard career path. Rather than simply giving the Canoness/Palatine the special rules of her former specialist unit, it might be fluffier if she also got better at leading them. Say, a former Dominion might not only have Vanguard herself, but let Dominions within 6" move an extra D6 in their Vanguard move; a former Retributor might let Retributors within 6" gain BS:2+. Of course, this would be more expensive and tricky to cost, but I'd like to explore it.
And yes, you could do those things with a Stratagem too, I know.
I still like the idea of Canonesses firing sniper rifles or shooting multi-meltas from the hip while barking commands, so I'm going to keep that aspect. Rule of Cool.

PS: On the Vanguard point, I also homebrewed a 10-point upgrade to Sororitas Transports to give them the Vanguard rule... which, yes, makes Immolators even more expensive, I know, but if you're going to get something not in your Codex, I feel you should pay points for the privilege. (Unless your opponent is very, very generous0.



2. Dialogus, Hospitaller, and Repentia "Heroes"
The consistent critique is these are basically souped-up versions of existing characters and are largely redundant: I agree.
There's also the argument they're unfluffy but I'm less convinced by that. Hospitalers in particular have to have a hierarchy, because sometimes they operate in groups; Repentia becoming heroic enough to earn their way back into the ranks is canon (Celestine), and presumably there's a period after they've started being awesome but before they're rehabilitated; and I can totally see a strong-willed Dialogus organizing an ad hoc crusade force.

So, rather than just replace these characters with Stratagems, though, I'd like to try differentiating them more from their codex versions:

Grand Dialogus: tone done her statline -- as Alex says, she shouldn't be on part with a Militant Order HQ -- and, instead of making her a Miracle Die generator, make her give some kind of multi-unit buff against psykers, Chaos, or just morale losses in general. Maybe give her all three and pick one before the battle, like an Imagifier with Litanies. That way she's clearly a supporting character rather than a frontline combat leader.

Repentia Champion: Since she's a survivor, make her give her fellow Repentia a boost to their chances of survival, say a 4+ Solace in Anguish save, rather than have her replicate the Mistress of Penitents/Repentia Superior abilities. Or just drop her buffing abilities altogether and focus on the fact that she's a beast in close combat. We actually don't have many melee monsters and an extra-tough Repentia is a hell of a logical candidate for one.

Hospitaler Commander: definitely needs to tone down the statline again, but I'm not sure what to change about her powers. It makes sense to me she's better at healing than regular Hospitalers, it makes sense she can coordinate regular Hospitalers to help heal the same unit. This is honestly the character I see as most replaceable by a Stratagem, something to give the "Coordinated Care" rule and have done.



3. Sister Signaler

Two "no" votes (Alex & Katherine), one "yes" (Kcalehc). But the ayes have it anyway, because I really like the concept of the Sisters working closely with the Imperial Guard and Navy -- and it's actually fluffy. To quote the new Codex:

....larger battleships and interstellar transports are seconded from the Imperial Navy. These ships may be assigned to an Order for decades or even centuries, but are still officially not part of the Ecclesiarchal military....
[in some circumstances] “Astra Militarum regiments are commandeered by the Order, and soldiers showing the slightest hints of mutation are expunged.....


Excerpt From: Games Workshop. “Codex: Adepta Sororitas (Enhanced Edition).” Games Workshop, 2020. Apple Books. https://books.apple.com/us/book/codex-adepta-sororitas-enhanced-edition/id1491793284

That said, I definitely need to tweak her abilities. I rather like Kcalehc's suggestion of a list of three, pick one, rather like Litanies except with a choice of orbital battleships, airstrikes, or close air support.

Again, yes, you could do this with a Stratagem like the Marines' Orbital Bombardment, but (a) I prefer having a model on the board to a Stratagem, (b) we already have too much to spend CP on, and (c) a stratagem would make artillery/orbital support available in any game, which while totally logical for Space Marines actually makes it too accessible for the Sisters, who as people say don't work as routinely with space support.


4. Wargear

Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:
Also, the Eviscerator already exists as a Legends option: it's 11 points for Sx2, AP-4, D1d3, Subtract 1 from hit rolls. Just return it from Legends.


Whoops, I missed that! Thanks.

And Kchalec has some neat ideas for what the Battle Censer could do -- what do people think?

Kcalehc wrote:
- Reduce charge distance of enemies, by 2" (smoke making them misjudge the distance)
- Something I've never seen anywhere: Reduce Pile in and Consolidate moves of enemies in combat with this unit by 1" (all that confusing smoke and whatnot!)
- If a unit within 3" of this unit is targeted by a shooting attack, and this unit is closer to the enemy that is making the shooting attack, reduce all hit rolls by -1 (similar to a PA guard stratagem, shooting through the smoke sort of thing)



5. Pages

alextroy wrote:Page: So much text for so little effect.


Beautifully put. You're right.

Of the alternatives people suggested, I definitely prefer the idea of making the Page a cherub/familiar equivalent that the Canoness -- or maybe even a squad Superior?? -- can buy as extra wargear. I'll ponder rules for what she actually does -- I most like her acting as a combination reusable incensor cherub/simulacrum, but that may be OP. Of course, then we can get rid of the flying dead babies, which Katherine would like.

I can also see the idea of squires being add-ons to squad like Black Templer neophytes, but in my headcanon Novices are treated with a little more love and care than that....

BURN IT DOWN BURN IT DOWN BABY BURN IT DOWN

 Psienesis wrote:
Well, if you check out Sister Sydney's homebrew/expansion rules, you'll find all kinds of units the Sisters could have, that fit with the theme of the Sisters (as a tabletop army) perfectly well, and are damn-near-perfectly balanced.

I’m updating that fandex now & I’m eager for feedback on new home-brew units for the Sisters: Sororitas Bikers, infiltrators & Novices, tanks, flyers, characters, superheavies, Frateris Militia, and now Confessors and Battle Conclave characters
My Novice Ginevra stories start with Bolter B-Word Privileges 
   
Made in us
Preacher of the Emperor




Tacoma, WA, USA

 SisterSydney wrote:
1. Customizable Canonesses & Palatines
I'll definitely trim down the types: "former Celestian" is redundant (as well as a bit OP) since that's the default career path, as Lord Katherine pointed out, and I don't need two flavors of jump pack canoness.
That said, I really like the idea of customization based on character having had a non-standard career path. Rather than simply giving the Canoness/Palatine the special rules of her former specialist unit, it might be fluffier if she also got better at leading them. Say, a former Dominion might not only have Vanguard herself, but let Dominions within 6" move an extra D6 in their Vanguard move; a former Retributor might let Retributors within 6" gain BS:2+. Of course, this would be more expensive and tricky to cost, but I'd like to explore it.
And yes, you could do those things with a Stratagem too, I know.
I still like the idea of Canonesses firing sniper rifles or shooting multi-meltas from the hip while barking commands, so I'm going to keep that aspect. Rule of Cool.
It's cool, but it's not how characters are normally constructed in 40K. I can't think of any non-special characters HQs outside of the Phobos Captain and Lieutenant that have special or heavy weapons. The same goes for selectable specific unit enhancing abilities. It's very Horus Hersey, but very not 8th Edition 40K.
3. Sister Signaler

Two "no" votes (Alex & Katherine), one "yes" (Kcalehc). But the ayes have it anyway, because I really like the concept of the Sisters working closely with the Imperial Guard and Navy -- and it's actually fluffy. To quote the new Codex:

....larger battleships and interstellar transports are seconded from the Imperial Navy. These ships may be assigned to an Order for decades or even centuries, but are still officially not part of the Ecclesiarchal military....
[in some circumstances] “Astra Militarum regiments are commandeered by the Order, and soldiers showing the slightest hints of mutation are expunged.....


Excerpt From: Games Workshop. “Codex: Adepta Sororitas (Enhanced Edition).” Games Workshop, 2020. Apple Books. https://books.apple.com/us/book/codex-adepta-sororitas-enhanced-edition/id1491793284

That said, I definitely need to tweak her abilities. I rather like Kcalehc's suggestion of a list of three, pick one, rather like Litanies except with a choice of orbital battleships, airstrikes, or close air support.

Again, yes, you could do this with a Stratagem like the Marines' Orbital Bombardment, but (a) I prefer having a model on the board to a Stratagem, (b) we already have too much to spend CP on, and (c) a stratagem would make artillery/orbital support available in any game, which while totally logical for Space Marines actually makes it too accessible for the Sisters, who as people say don't work as routinely with space support.
You don't need a special Sister of Battle unit to do what existing Imperial Guard models already do. If you want IG artillery support in your army, you take a Master of Ordnance and/or some IG artillery.
4. Wargear
And Kchalec has some neat ideas for what the Battle Censer could do -- what do people think?

Kcalehc wrote:
- Reduce charge distance of enemies, by 2" (smoke making them misjudge the distance)
- Something I've never seen anywhere: Reduce Pile in and Consolidate moves of enemies in combat with this unit by 1" (all that confusing smoke and whatnot!)
- If a unit within 3" of this unit is targeted by a shooting attack, and this unit is closer to the enemy that is making the shooting attack, reduce all hit rolls by -1 (similar to a PA guard stratagem, shooting through the smoke sort of thing)
The one existing censor we have in the rules is on the Triumph of Saint Katherine. It generates a Miracle Dice each turn. This indicates a censor should center around Acts of Faith in some way, hopefully not duplicating an existing rule. Here's a wild idea:

Battle Censor: Once per turn, your army may gain a second Miracle Dice during a phase if two different units within 6" of any model carrying a Battle Censor fulfill conditions to gain a Miracle Dice. For example, if two different units with Acts of Faith are within 6" of a Battle Censor and both destroy an enemy unit, you can gain two Miracle Dice that phase.
   
Made in us
Lesser Daemon of Chaos




New Orleans

i strongly advise against the +1 BS for units within 6”. That is a very powerful ability. The only model that does something similar is the Lord Discordant and he does not receive character protection.

I think the reduce pile in range option is the bedt one available. Minus to hit penalties are stupidly powerful in a game based on D6. A charge range reduction means another nerf for melee combat which is already pretty bad. You’d also need an 11” charge to avoid flamer attacks or charge from reserves. The extra miracle dice option isn’t bad either.

Iron within, Iron without 
   
Made in us
Preacher of the Emperor






Miracle dice manipulation tempts me strongly, since it goes to the heart of what makes this army unique. But what new trick can we pull? I’m unsure about gaining a second die in a phase if two nearby units both qualify to earn one — it seems awkward to keep track of. Adjusting the value of a die is the Dialogus’s thing; roll two, keep one is the cherub’s; reroll is kinda redundant given the cherub, the dialogus, and the fact that both high and low rolls are potentially useful.... adding another die is definitely cool, but something that needs to be handed out very sparingly, since the only things that do it in the codex are a warlord trait, a church (the structure), and the gloriously impractical Procession.

What other fun things can people think of doing with miracle dice, things our codex options don’t already do?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
PS: the ability to earn two miracle dice a phase is actually really useful — just not sure about tying it to a 6” radius. Hey, maybe that’s the Grand Dialogus’s ability for her detachment or whole army — you can earn two dice per phase?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
PPS: Canoness Dominant idea — she gains Vanguard, and so does any transport in which she or a dominion squad in her detachment embarks.

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2020/04/12 03:30:22


BURN IT DOWN BURN IT DOWN BABY BURN IT DOWN

 Psienesis wrote:
Well, if you check out Sister Sydney's homebrew/expansion rules, you'll find all kinds of units the Sisters could have, that fit with the theme of the Sisters (as a tabletop army) perfectly well, and are damn-near-perfectly balanced.

I’m updating that fandex now & I’m eager for feedback on new home-brew units for the Sisters: Sororitas Bikers, infiltrators & Novices, tanks, flyers, characters, superheavies, Frateris Militia, and now Confessors and Battle Conclave characters
My Novice Ginevra stories start with Bolter B-Word Privileges 
   
Made in us
Preacher of the Emperor






A quick brainstorm:
Canoness Retributant can pick one Retributor unit in 3” to get +1 to hit for a phase, like the Phobos Marine warlord trait but narrower; Palatine Retributant can do the same for one Retributor model.
Canoness Vigilant can set up infiltrators in her detachment in the enemy deployment zone, as long as they stay 9” away from enemy units (similar to Cult Ambush, except you’re still on the board to be shot at first turn). Palatine Vigilant can do this with one Vigil squad.
Canoness Dominant gives all vehicles with Dominions embarked the Vanguard rule; Palatine Vigilant gives it to one vehicle.
And Seraphic just means jump pack & Sky Strike, Heraldic just means on a bike, and Celestian & Zephyric are cut.

Grand Dialogus lets her detachment earn an extra Miracle Die per phase.

Repentia Champion just gets Solace in Anguish, the ability to her own charges, advances , and 1s to hit (ie she inherently has the abilities a normal Repentia needs a Mistress/Superior to impart), plus a 6” Heroic Intervention. She no longer buffs other Repentia, so she doesn’t overlap with the Mistress anymore.

Page is an item of equipment, like a cherub, that lets her mistress do an Act of Faith even if you’ve already done one for the phase — i.e. she’s a Simulacrum for characters.

Since I’ve taken Alex’s idea for the Censer and made it the Grand Dialogus’s ability, I’m still pondering what to do with the censer....

BURN IT DOWN BURN IT DOWN BABY BURN IT DOWN

 Psienesis wrote:
Well, if you check out Sister Sydney's homebrew/expansion rules, you'll find all kinds of units the Sisters could have, that fit with the theme of the Sisters (as a tabletop army) perfectly well, and are damn-near-perfectly balanced.

I’m updating that fandex now & I’m eager for feedback on new home-brew units for the Sisters: Sororitas Bikers, infiltrators & Novices, tanks, flyers, characters, superheavies, Frateris Militia, and now Confessors and Battle Conclave characters
My Novice Ginevra stories start with Bolter B-Word Privileges 
   
Made in us
Lesser Daemon of Chaos




New Orleans

I really think the censor should be similar to the plague flail. Maybe have it be S+2 AP-1 D2 and the damage rolls over through the unit? Oh and add in reroll 1’s to wound. I would advise keeping it out of characters hands though or put it at 10 pts in a unit and 20 on a character.

How many units can infiltrate in the original codex and your fandex? I’m not completely against the 9” away deployment option but in general, those abilities have been in general greatly curtailed. Alpha Legion and Raven Guard both lost that option because it wasn’t very fun for the game. When the Raven Guard got it back it caused some balance issues.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/04/13 06:01:50


Iron within, Iron without 
   
Made in us
Preacher of the Emperor






Infiltration: the only units in the fandex/expansion with this ability are the Vigils (and whatever Canonesses/Palatines come out of this thread with it). As for infiltration into enemy deployment zones, the Genestealers codex actually gives that to most of their army, although you don’t start on the board; instead, you come in (from underground tunnels, per fluff) at the end of any movement phase.

Censer: it’s hard for me to think of fluff for a Sisters chemical weapon — unless it only works on chaos, like holy water / incense that burns the unclean?

BURN IT DOWN BURN IT DOWN BABY BURN IT DOWN

 Psienesis wrote:
Well, if you check out Sister Sydney's homebrew/expansion rules, you'll find all kinds of units the Sisters could have, that fit with the theme of the Sisters (as a tabletop army) perfectly well, and are damn-near-perfectly balanced.

I’m updating that fandex now & I’m eager for feedback on new home-brew units for the Sisters: Sororitas Bikers, infiltrators & Novices, tanks, flyers, characters, superheavies, Frateris Militia, and now Confessors and Battle Conclave characters
My Novice Ginevra stories start with Bolter B-Word Privileges 
   
Made in us
Lesser Daemon of Chaos




New Orleans

Yeah I was going for the holy water/ anointed weapon theme for the censor. Considering that the Sisters have literal weaponized faith it’s not hard to believe they could produce a holy material that wounds the faithless. Concur Kent let whoever they’re fighting counts as the faithless to them. I’ve never been a fan of giving bonuses against a single faction. It’s hard to factor rules that only matter in certain games.

As long as the infiltrating units don’t expand too much I don’t think that will be a problem. It’s only extreme if you add heavy weapons, large units, or really powerful melee units. The genestealer deployment does have a lot of risk though. Their army lacks decent saves so they have to time their first strike perfectly or else they will kill their target and then be ripped apart when they’re in the open on the next turn.

Iron within, Iron without 
   
Made in us
Preacher of the Emperor






I do need to carefully calibrate how many units a given Canoness/Palatine buffs. I'm thinking now that a Canoness Vigilant can enable Vigils to infiltrate the enemy deployment zone as long as they are within 6" of her position, or maybe even allows just one Vigil unit to infiltrate the deployment zone, while the Palatine just has the ability to infiltrate herself (so you can have a leader-type accompany your Vigils).

BURN IT DOWN BURN IT DOWN BABY BURN IT DOWN

 Psienesis wrote:
Well, if you check out Sister Sydney's homebrew/expansion rules, you'll find all kinds of units the Sisters could have, that fit with the theme of the Sisters (as a tabletop army) perfectly well, and are damn-near-perfectly balanced.

I’m updating that fandex now & I’m eager for feedback on new home-brew units for the Sisters: Sororitas Bikers, infiltrators & Novices, tanks, flyers, characters, superheavies, Frateris Militia, and now Confessors and Battle Conclave characters
My Novice Ginevra stories start with Bolter B-Word Privileges 
   
Made in us
Preacher of the Emperor






After many great critiques & suggestions, a lot of thought, and an insane work week, I’ve come up with the following revised rules, which in most cases tone things down a bit. Note that I’m still pondering the Battle Censer...

*

WARGEAR

Camo Cloak (character: 3 points)
When resolving an attack made with a ranged weapon against this character whilst it is receiving the benefit of cover, add 2 to the saving throw instead of 1.

Eviscerator (11 pts): Melee S:x2 AP:-4 D: D3
When resolving an attack made with this weapon, subtract 1 from the hit roll.

Design Notes:
Spoiler:

Camo Cloak is straight out of the Marine codex; Eviscerator is straight out of Legends.



***

HQ

*

HQ: New Canoness Options
A Canoness may be upgraded to one of the following statlines by taking the appropriate Record of Service (see below):
Canoness Angelic: M:12” WS:2+ BS:2+ S:3 T:3 W:5 A:4 Ld:9 Sv:3+
Canoness Heraldic: M:16” WS:2+ BS:2+ S:3 T:4 W:6 A:4 Ld:9 Sv:3+
Spoiler:

Replace the Wargear Options in the Codex with the following:

This model may replace its chainsword with a Blessed Blade, Power Sword, or Power Maul.
This model may replace its chainsword and bolt pistol with an Eviscerator.
This model may replace its boltgun with 1 weapon from the Ranged Weapons list; 1 weapon from the Pistols list; a Brazier of Holy Fire; a Null Rod; or a Rod of Office.
This model may replace its bolt pistol with 1 weapon from the Pistols list.

This model may take a Record of Service:

Canoness Angelic (20 points):
Many of the leaders of the Adepta Sororitas came from the exalted ranks of the Seraphim and Zephyrim, soaring over the battlefield like killer angels to strike at the crucial point. While a tactical commander dare not lose herself in Zephyric battle-rapture, these Canonesses are still terrifying opponents.
This model gains the Jump Pack and Fly keywords.
It gains the Sky Strike ability.
It uses the Canoness Angelic statline (gaining a move of 12”).

Canoness Dominant (30 points):
Dominions’ aggressive tactics mean many die even younger than other Sisters, but those that survive are among the Adepta’s boldest leaders, leading from the front with faith and fire.
This model gains the Vanguard ability.
Any ORDER Adepta Sororitas Transport in the same detachment that is not a Flyer also gains the Vanguard ability if it has at least one ORDER Dominion Squad embarked at the start of the game.
It may replace its boltgun with 1 weapon from the Special Weapons list.
It uses the regular Canoness statline.

Canoness Heraldic (20 points):
While the Sisters of Battle revere the infantrywoman, some of their most dashing commanders come from the hard-riding bikers of the Herald corps.
This model loses the Infantry keyword and gains the Bike keyword.
It gains the Turbo-Boost and Divine Wind abilities.
It uses the Canoness Heraldic statline (gaining a Move of 16”, an additional point of Toughness, and an additional Wound).

Canoness Redemptia (15 points):
Most Adepta Sororitas who fall from grace into the ranks of the Repentia never rise again in this life — but those that do redeem themselves, purified by their own and enemies’ blood, inspire awe and no little fear among their Sisters.
This model gains the Zealot and Solace in Anguish abilities.
It uses the regular Canoness statline.

Canoness Retributant (20 points):
This Canoness is a hardened veteran of the Retributor gunline. Her aim is as steady amidst the storm of battle as the rock of faith itself, and she directs the fire of her Retributors with the same precision as her own weapon.
One ORDER Retributor Squad within 3” of this model may add one to its hit roll for all attacks during the shooting phase.
This model gains the Relentless Advance and Rites of Fire special rules.
It may replace its boltgun with one weapon from the Heavy Weapons list.
It uses the regular Canoness statline.

Vigilant Record (15 points)
The silent sniper-infiltrators of the Vigil corps hold themselves from other Sisters, but the rare few who ascend to command ranks are exceptionally cold and calculating tacticians.
This model gains the Concealed Positions and Shadows Amidst The Gargoyles abilities.
It may take a camo cloak and replace its boltgun with an Excommunicator Boltgun.
It uses the regular Canoness statline.


Fluff:
Spoiler:

With rare exceptions, every Canoness has fought in countless battles at lower ranks before rising to command her Sisters. Most of them proved themselves in the ranks of the Celestians, fighting under a Canoness’s eye as part of her bodyguard before being trusted with command themselves. Many, however, have spent time in the Sisterhood’s other specialist units and continue to favor a distinctive way of war, from the hard-charging war bikes of the Heralds to the jump-packs of the Seraphim.


Design Notes
Spoiler:

Some of these upgrades simply make the Canoness capable of keeping up with a particular type of unit, like Jump Pack troops, Bikers, or infiltrators. Others make her buff a given type of unit, like Retributors or Dominions. And one, the ex-Repentia option, just makes the Canoness Dead ‘Ard herself.
The rule of thumb I’ve used to cost these is a major stat increase (like A or T) or special ability (Vanguard) costs 10 points, whether imparted to the character herself or to another unit, while a minor/situational one (like Ld or Zealot) costs five, and Jump Packs and Bikes both cost 20 (based on a rough average across the Marine codex HQs). Note that the Canoness doesn’t get Angelic Visage, because its save bonus is redundant given her Rosarius save.


*

HQ: Palatine
(35 pm, 1-3 models per unit)
Palatine Ordinary: M:6” WS:3+ BS:3+ S:3 T:3 W:4 A:3 Ld:8 Sv: 3+
Palatine Angelic: M:12” WS:3+ BS:3+ S:3 T:3 W:4 A:3 Ld:8 Sv: 3+
Palatine Heraldic: M:16” WS:3+ BS:3+ S:3 T:4 W:5 A:3 Ld:8 Sv:3+
Spoiler:

This unit contains 1 Palatine Ordinary. It can contain an additional 2 Palatine Ordinaries for 35 points each. Any model may be upgraded by taking a Record of Service (see below).
Every model is equipped with: bolt pistol; boltgun; chainsword; frag grenades; krak grenades.

Wargear Options:
Any model may replace its chainsword with a Power Sword or Power Maul.
Any model may replace its chainsword and bolt pistol with an Eviscerator.
Any model may replace its boltgun with 1 weapon from the Ranged Weapons list; 1 weapon from the Pistols list; or a Brazier of Holy Fire.
Any model may replace its bolt pistol with 1 weapon from the Pistols list.

Abilities:
Acts of Faith, Sacred Rites, Shield of Faith

Inspire the Righteous:
Reroll wound rolls of 1 for attacks made by friendly ORDER models whilst their unit is within 6” of this model.

Commandery Heroes:
During deployment, every model in this unit must be set up at the same time, though they do not need to be set up in unit coherency. From that point onwards, each model is treated as a separate unit.

This model may take a Record of Service:

Palatine Angelic (25 points):
This Sister has distinguished herself even amidst the ranks of the elite Seraphim and Zephyrim, ascending to the role of jump-pack Palatine.
This model gains the Jump Pack and Fly keywords.
It gains the Angelic Visage and Sky Strike abilities.
It uses the Palatine Angelic statline (gaining a move of 12”).

Palatine Dominant (25 points):
This Palatine has risen from the Dominions and now leads their aggressive advances.
This model gains the Vanguard ability, as does any Adepta Sororitas Transport on which she embarks that is not a Flyer.
It may replace its boltgun with 1 weapon from the Special Weapons list.
It uses the Palatine Ordinary statline.

Palatine Heraldic (20 points):
This Palatine has risen from the ranks of the Herald Corps and rides a Sororitas Bike into battle.
This model loses the Infantry keyword and gains the Bike keyword.
It gains the Turbo-Boost and Divine Wind abilities.
It uses the Palatine Heraldic statline (gaining a Move of 16”, an additional point of Toughness, and an additional Wound).

Palatine Redemptia (15 points):
This Sister once sinned and expiated her guilt in the ranks of the Repentia. Now she has redeemed herself and not only re-earned her place among her Sisters but earned a chance to show her leadership.
This model gains the Zealot and Solace in Anguish abilities.
It uses the Palatine Ordinary statline.

Palatine Retributant (20 points):
This Palatine is a former Retributor and master markswoman who now leads the heavy weapons Sisters into battle.
This model gains the Relentless Advance and Rites of Fire special rules.
Re-roll hit rolls of 1 for one ORDER Retributor Squad within 3” of this model during the Shooting Phase.
This model may replace its boltgun with one weapon from the Heavy Weapons list.
It uses the Palatine Ordinary statline.

Palatine Vigilant (15 points)
This Palatine is a stealthy sniper promoted from the ranks of the Vigils, able to lead her Sisters into battle without raising her voice above a whisper.
This model gains the Concealed Positions and Shadows Amidst The Gargoyles abilities.
It may take a camo cloak and replace its boltgun with an Excommunicator Boltgun.
It uses the Palatine Ordinary statline.


Design Notes:
Spoiler:

Designed to be the Lieutenant to the Canoness’s Captain. No, we don’t desperately need a cheaper HQ, but damn it, it’s fluffy. Arguably, she could go down to 30 points, but her reroll-wounds ability seemed pretty comparable to other 35-ppm Sisters characters, and her statline is the same.
The Records of Service follow the same rules of thumb for costing as the Canoness’s. Note that the Palatine Angelic does have (and pay for) Angelic Visage, since she doesn’t have a Rosarius to render it irrelevant.


Fluff:
Spoiler:

Most Orders Militant permit a Canoness to appoint Palatines to assist her in her duties, acting as aides-de-camp and subordinate commanders, and most Canonesses first prove themselves as Palatines. These subalterns vary widely, from battle-scarred former Sisters Superior to pious young prodigies barely out of their Novitiate, but all must demonstrate uncommon tactical skill, leadership potential, and zealous hatred. Most Palatines are promoted from the ranks of the Celestians, where they have proved their worth under their Canoness’s watchful eye. But others have served in the Sisterhood’s specialist units and bring those skills and wargear to their new rank, from the accurized Excommunication Bolter of a Vigil to the jump-pack and power sword of a Zephyrim.


*

HQ: Grand Dialogus
(65 points, 1 model per unit)
M:6” WS:3+ BS:3+ S:3 T:3 W:5 A:3 Ld:9 Sv:3+
Spoiler:

A Grand Dialogus is a single model equipped with a bolt pistol and a Dialogus staff.

Wargear Options:
This model may replace its bolt pistol with 1 weapon from the Pistols list.
This model may replace its Dialogus staff with a Null Rod.

Abilities:
Acts of Faith, Sacred Rites, Shield of Faith
Laud Hailer
Spiritual Fortitude

Inspiring Rhetoric
At the end of each phase, gain one Miracle die if any Adepta Sororitas unit within 6” of this model that has met the criteria for earning a Miracle Dice (Vengeance, Sacrifice, Purity, or Valour), even if you have already gained a Miracle Dice for this phase.


Fluff:
Spoiler:

Most Dialogi play a supporting role in battle, lifting the spirits and igniting the fervor of their more militant Sisters. Those rare Dialogi who ascend to command, however, are truly terrifying and inspirational leaders, able to sway the outcome of a combat by their words alone – or, as the Sisters see it, by their miraculous works of faith.


Design Notes:
Spoiler:

Start with Dialogus (35 ppm)
+1 to WS, W, & Ld: 15 pts?
Assume she gains you a couple extra miracle dice per turn, on average. An incensor cherub costs 5 pts per MD but lets you roll twice , which this doesn’t, so say 4 pts/per die, and at two dice per turn, 8 pts per turn. Then, assuming she survives four turns in the average game, that’s 32 pts; round to 30.
BUT she loses the standard Miracle Die-manipulation ability of the basic Dialogus – that way she doesn’ render them irrelevant – so minus, say, 15 points.
Total: 35 + 15 + 30 -15 = 65 points


*

HQ: Hospitaller Commander
(70 points, 1 model per unit)
M:6” WS:3+ BS:3+ S:3 T:3 W:5 A:3 Ld:9 Sv:3+
Spoiler:

A Hospitaller Commander is a single model equipped with: bolt pistol; chirurgeon’s tools.

Wargear Options:
This model may replace its bolt pistol with 1 weapon from the Pistols list.

Abilities:
Acts of Faith, Sacred Rites, Shield of Faith
Medicus Ministorum

Coordinated Care
Two characters from this detachment that both have the Medicus Ministorum ability may provide medical attention to the same unit in the same turn.


Fluff:
Spoiler:

The Orders Hospitaller typically spread their healing gifts across the Orders Militant, attaching a single Sister to a given frontline command. The brutalities of some war zones, however, require a concentrated effort to salvage lives, while in other cases a Hospitaller mission itself comes under threat. In such extreme situations, where multiple Hospitallers take the field at once, they are often lead by the most senior, skilled, and fervent of their number, who coordinate their sisters to provide superior care.


Design Notes:
Spoiler:

Start with Hospitaller (35 ppm)
+1 to WS, W, & Ld: 15 pts?
Can double-team with another Hospitaller: 5 points.
Boost to other Hospitallers: Assuming you’re using this character as HQ for a Vanguard detachment of 3 Hospitallers, say that’s a 5-point boost to each of them… say 15 pts.
Total: 35+15+5+15 = 70



***

ELITES

*

Elite: Repentia Champion
(45 points per model, 1 model per unit)
M:6” WS:3+ BS:3+ S:3 T:3 W:4 A:4 Ld:8 Sv:7+
Spoiler:

A Repentia Champion is a single model equipped with Penitent Eviscerator.

Wargear Options: None.

Abilities:
Acts of Faith, Sacred Rites, Shield of Faith
Zealot
Solace In Anguish

Driven Onwards By Shame
You can re-roll Advance rolls and Charge rolls for this model. You may also reroll wound rolls and Solace In Anguish rolls of 1 for this model.

Inspiration to the Penitent
If your army is battle-forged, this model does not take up any slots in a detachment that includes any ORDER Sisters Repentia unit.
You may re-roll Solace in Anguish rolls of 1 for any ORDER Sisters Repentia unit whilst they are within 6” of this model.

Outcast
This model may never take a Relic or have a Warlord Trait.


Fluff:
Spoiler:

Sisters Repentia seek absolution in death — but sometimes they survive. A handful even endure battle after battle. Some of their Sisters see these veterans as failures, incapable even of dying properly, but the most see their survival as a sign of grace, and her endurance amidst agony gives some hope even to her fellow Repentia. Indeed, often the Sisterhood would welcome a veteran Repentia back into their ranks, redeemed by countless battles, but her own shame is too deep to accept forgiveness.


Design Notes
Spoiler:

Start with Repentia Superior (35 ppm)
Replace Neural Whip, pistol, and grenades with Eviscerator: probably a wash, so 0 pts?
Instead of the Repentia Superior’s abilities, she can basically impart the Repentia Superior’s bonuses to herself ONLY, which is a big downgrade – but she can also give other Repentia re-rolls on their Solace in Anguish/Feel No Pain, which is a big upgrade. That’s…. probably a wash?
Zealot’s pretty damn good for a melee character, so I’d give that +10 points.
And Outcast is a very minor restriction, so zero points.


*

Elite: Sister Chorister
(40 points, 1 model per unit)
M:6” WS:3+ BS:3+ S:3 T:3 W:4 A:3 Ld:8 Sv: 3+
Spoiler:

A Sister Chorister is a single model equipped with bolt pistol; frag grenades; krak grenades; chainsword.

Wargear options:
This model may replace its chainsword with a power sword, power maul, or battle censer.

Abilities:
Acts of Faith, Sacred Rites, Shield of Faith
Zealot, Icon of the Ecclesiarchy, War Hymns


Fluff:
Spoiler:

All Sisters of Battle are trained to sing hymns to the God-Emperor as they work, make war, and die. Only those with the purest voices, hearts, and hatred, however, are selected for the intense choral training and indoctrination that earns them the title of "Sister Chorister." While less tactically sophisticated than those selected for the rank of Sister Superior, the Choristers complement the Superiors' military experience with their religious zeal. Their pure, sweet voices carry high above the roar of battle, inspiring their Sisters to kill and die in the Emperor's name, while the growl of their chainswords provides the bass line.


Design Notes:
Spoiler:

A preacher’s special rules on an Imagifier’s statline. War Hymns in particular seems as useful as one of the Imagifier’s Litanies, but this model can only do one thing, without the Imagifier’s flexibility, so I discounted the Chorister five points.


*

Elite: Sister Signaler
(50 points, 1 model per unit)
Spoiler:

M:6” WS:3+ BS:3+ S:3 T:3 W:4 A3 Ld:8 Sv: 3+

A Sister Signaller is a single model equipped with boltgun; frag grenades; krak grenades;

Wargear Options: This model may replace its boltgun with a bolt pistol.

Strafing Coordinates
At the start of the Shooting phase, pick an enemy unit that does not have the Fly keyword and is within 18” of this model. For the duration of this phase, you can re-roll hit rolls of 1 for any friendly Aeronautica Imperialis or Adepta Sororitas Fliers that target the unit you picked.

Artillery Barrage:
Range: 100” Heavy D6 S:8 AP:-2 D: D3
This weapon can only be fired once per battle. This weapon can target units that are not visible to the bearer, but when doing so, subtract 1 from the hit rolls.
You may only use one artillery barrage per turn, regardless of how many Sisters Signaler and/or Astra Militarum Masters of Ordnance you have in your army.


Fluff:
Spoiler:

As proud of their prowess as the Sisters of Battle are, their wiser commanders appreciate the limited range of their Holy Trinity of weapons and do not hesitate to call on other branches of the Imperium for supporting fire: the orbiting monitors of the Ecclesiarchy’s sacred fleet, the capital ships of the Imperial Navy, the bombers of the Aeronautica Imperialis, or the massed artillery batteries of the Imperial Guard.
[spoiler]

Design notes:
[spoiler]
She’s a hybrid of Master of Ordnance and the Office of the Fleet from the IG codex: Specifically, she has the MoO’s once-per-battle ability and the OooF’s once-per-turn ability, but not their other abilities. Since – as Dakkanauts have pointed out – those are those two characters’ BEST abilities, she’s more valuable than they are. The MoO is a 30-point character with an IG character statline; she’s got the statline of a standard 35-point Sororitas character and a better power than the MoO, so I’ll take a wild guess and make her 50 points.


*

***

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/04/18 03:04:14


BURN IT DOWN BURN IT DOWN BABY BURN IT DOWN

 Psienesis wrote:
Well, if you check out Sister Sydney's homebrew/expansion rules, you'll find all kinds of units the Sisters could have, that fit with the theme of the Sisters (as a tabletop army) perfectly well, and are damn-near-perfectly balanced.

I’m updating that fandex now & I’m eager for feedback on new home-brew units for the Sisters: Sororitas Bikers, infiltrators & Novices, tanks, flyers, characters, superheavies, Frateris Militia, and now Confessors and Battle Conclave characters
My Novice Ginevra stories start with Bolter B-Word Privileges 
   
Made in us
Preacher of the Emperor






Here's another take on the Page, modeled on the Familiar rules in Codex:Genestealer Cults but with some added wrinkles:

Page (15 points per model)
Most leaders of the Adepta Sororitas pick a favored Novice as their personal page. The adolescent Sister-in-training cleans their mistress’s wargear, fetches everything from tea to sacred texts, and lifts her spirits with her innocent faith. Sometimes a page will even accompany her mistress into battle, shooting bolts and singing hymns to support her. Battle-hardened Canonesses have been known to collapse in grief over the body of their page — but far more often they respond with terrible wrath.

Page: M:6” WS:4+ BS:3+ S:3 T:3 W:1 A:2 Ld:7 Sv:4+
A Canoness, Palatine, Grand Dialogus, or Hospitaller Commander that does not have either the FLY or BIKE keyword may be accompanied by 1 Page, the two models forming a single unit.
A Page is a single model equipped with: boltgun, bolt pistol, krak grenades, frag grenades.

Abilities:
Acts of Faith, Sacred Rites, Shield of Faith

Page Girl
As long as a unit contains a Page, then once per phase you can perform an Act of Faith for that unit, even if you have already performed one or more Acts of Faith in that phase.
A Page is considered to have the Character keyword for purposes of Shooting attacks.
If a Page is killed, the Page’s unit rerolls 1s to hit and to wound in the Fight phase against the unit that killed the Page for the rest of the game.

Design Notes:
Start with the statline for a Novice Provisional Superior (6 points), add 5 points for having the same ability as a Simulacrum Imperials, add 4 (at a guess…) for the potential bonus to her mistress’s attacks if she dies.
Note there’s a tactical tradeoff: If you allocate a wound to the page instead of the mistress, the mistress loses her living Simulacrum and has to take a Morale test — which she’ll probably pass — but she is spared a wound and gains a melee bonus against an enemy she’s probably already in combat with.

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2020/04/19 03:17:51


BURN IT DOWN BURN IT DOWN BABY BURN IT DOWN

 Psienesis wrote:
Well, if you check out Sister Sydney's homebrew/expansion rules, you'll find all kinds of units the Sisters could have, that fit with the theme of the Sisters (as a tabletop army) perfectly well, and are damn-near-perfectly balanced.

I’m updating that fandex now & I’m eager for feedback on new home-brew units for the Sisters: Sororitas Bikers, infiltrators & Novices, tanks, flyers, characters, superheavies, Frateris Militia, and now Confessors and Battle Conclave characters
My Novice Ginevra stories start with Bolter B-Word Privileges 
   
Made in us
Lesser Daemon of Chaos




New Orleans

You should consider making the page similar to the Dark Disciples for the Dark Apostle. Only let them be taken with said characters as an elites choice that doesn’t take a force org slot. Their bonuses and character protection only apply if they’re within 6” of their canoness. Other wise you would just hide the model in a ruin to keep the simulacrum bonus.

I’d also recommend treating the page as separate unit because otherwise the character is using them like a grot shield. If there’s a powerful attack coming in at the actual sister character, you’d always take it on the page to keep your more valuable character alive. It’s hardly what you’d picture the more experienced sister doing.

Iron within, Iron without 
   
Made in us
Preacher of the Emperor






Ah, that's a model I hadn't considered, and I think you're right, it'd work better than the "familiar" model, which really encourages you to sacrifice it to shield the main model....So something like this?


Elite: Page (15 points per model)
M:6” WS:4+ BS:3+ S:3 T:3 W:1 A:1 Ld:6 Sv:4+

A Page is a single model equipped with: boltgun, bolt pistol, krak grenades, frag grenades..

Abilities:
Acts of Faith, Sacred Rites, Shield of Faith

Faithful Follower
Only one Page may be included in a detachment for each Canoness, Palatine, Grand Dialogus, or Hospitaller Commander. This unit does not take up a slot.
If this model is within 3" of a Canoness, Palatine, Gand Dialogus, or Hospitaller Commander from the same detachment, it may use that other model's Leadership for all tests.
If this model is not within 3" of a Canoness, Palatine, Grand Dialogus, or Hospitaller Commander from the same detachment, it may not use the Acts of Faith, Sacred Rites, and Shield of Faith abilities.
Once per phase, you may perform an Act of Faith for one Canoness, Palatine, Grand Dialogus, or Hospitaller Commander within 3" of this model, even if you have already performed one or more Acts of Faith in that phase.

Faction Keywords:
Imperium, Adeptus Ministorum, Adepta Sororitas

Keywords:
Character, Infantry, Page

BURN IT DOWN BURN IT DOWN BABY BURN IT DOWN

 Psienesis wrote:
Well, if you check out Sister Sydney's homebrew/expansion rules, you'll find all kinds of units the Sisters could have, that fit with the theme of the Sisters (as a tabletop army) perfectly well, and are damn-near-perfectly balanced.

I’m updating that fandex now & I’m eager for feedback on new home-brew units for the Sisters: Sororitas Bikers, infiltrators & Novices, tanks, flyers, characters, superheavies, Frateris Militia, and now Confessors and Battle Conclave characters
My Novice Ginevra stories start with Bolter B-Word Privileges 
   
Made in us
Lesser Daemon of Chaos




New Orleans

That looks good and definitely fits the lore much better. Purely for flavor maybe let the page take a power sword. Mostly just for flavor. If your canoness wants to be in close combat you don’t have to take a unit that doesn’t want to be in close combat at all.

Iron within, Iron without 
   
Made in us
Preacher of the Emperor






Thanks. Maybe an extra attack and a chainsword? Power weapons for Novices seem a bit much.....
How about the revisions to the various Canoness subtypes, Palatines, and other characters -- are folks happy/content/willing to tolerate them?

BURN IT DOWN BURN IT DOWN BABY BURN IT DOWN

 Psienesis wrote:
Well, if you check out Sister Sydney's homebrew/expansion rules, you'll find all kinds of units the Sisters could have, that fit with the theme of the Sisters (as a tabletop army) perfectly well, and are damn-near-perfectly balanced.

I’m updating that fandex now & I’m eager for feedback on new home-brew units for the Sisters: Sororitas Bikers, infiltrators & Novices, tanks, flyers, characters, superheavies, Frateris Militia, and now Confessors and Battle Conclave characters
My Novice Ginevra stories start with Bolter B-Word Privileges 
   
Made in us
Lesser Daemon of Chaos




New Orleans

Either option is good.

I think the rest of the characters are reasonable to roll out for play testing.

Iron within, Iron without 
   
 
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