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That's a good point. So... let's say

1) Novices get no buffing aura effects (no boosts to heroic intervention, morale, etc.), have Shield of Faith & Acts of Faith, can't use Rites or Convictions without a Mistress, have BS:3+ and Sv:4+. Price per model is 6 ppm.

2) Mistress of Novices gets the Heroic Intervention boost (rather than that being a buff the Novices give all Sororitas characters) and Zealot while she's using it. She unlocks Rites & Convictions for nearby Novices, and they can use her Leadership for tests. No Commissar-style abilities.

3) Stratagem for Novices is 1CP to stop nearby Sisters & Frateris from fleeing (say, a 4+ save for each retreating model). The idea is the fact that the kids are holding their position shames the grown-ups into staying.

4) As for the sniper boltgun, any Vigil can take it, but it's also added to the Heavy Weapons list, so Retributors can take four per squad and basic BSS can take one per squad to represent a "squad designated markswoman."

Thoughts?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
PS: I've also posted homebrew Sororitas Predators, which I'd love everyone's critique of.

My issue with the Vigils is that - really cool name aside - they're pretty generic. That's normal for Sororitas infantry units, admittedly; Dominions and Retributors and even Celestians are mostly just basic Sororitas with access to extra special/heavy weapons, although the Armorium Cherub and the new special rules have done a decent amount to help distinguish the Retributors. These ladies have a solid niche, but they're also just Scouts for Sororitas, which is a little underwhelming.

Have you considered playing into the whole "Vigil" name, and making them unseen guardians of the congregation? Human gargoyles who swear an oath of silence and perch atop cathedrals, scanning the hives and congregations of the Imperium for witches and mutants? That'd mean you could give them all psyocculums to pick out witches hiding among the faithful, or special condemnor sniper crossbows. Or play into the gargoyle thing and give them an extra bonus for being deployed in a building or shooting at an enemy that's vertically lower than them. Or give them an Auspex Scan equivalent as they trace warp-trails to shoot. Something like that – a little more outlandish.

Oooh, I really like these as ideas for additional wargear options -- maybe all of them can get the Condemnor, for instance? Not sure how to implement a bonus for them being in a building, but the visual of them lurking amongst the gargoyles, inhumanly still and silent, is awesome.... at the very least that's going into the fluff.

 SisterSydney wrote:
Oooh, I really like these as ideas for additional wargear options -- maybe all of them can get the Condemnor, for instance? Not sure how to implement a bonus for them being in a building, but the visual of them lurking amongst the gargoyles, inhumanly still and silent, is awesome.... at the very least that's going into the fluff.

Potential thoughts:

Condemnor sniper crossbow: Range 36", Heavy 1, Strength 4, AP-0, Damage 1. Abilities: This weapon can target a CHARACTER unit even if it is not the closest enemy unit. When resolving an attack made with this weapon against a PSYKER unit, this weapon has a Damage characteristic of D3 for that attack. When resolving an attack made with this weapon, a wound roll of 6+ inflicts 1 mortal wound on the target in addition to any other damage.

Psyocculum sniper rifle: Range 36", Heavy 1, Strength 4, AP-0, Damage 1. Abilities: This weapon can target a CHARACTER unit even if it is not the closest enemy unit. When resolving an attack made with this weapon against a PSYKER unit, add 1 to the wound roll for that attack. When resolving an attack made with this weapon, a wound roll of 6+ inflicts 1 mortal wound on the target in addition to any other damage.

From On High: When resolving an attack made with a ranged weapon by a model with this ability against a target that at least 3" vertically lower than that model, the target does not receive the benefit of cover to its saving throw.

From On High: When resolving an attack made with a ranged weapon by a model with this ability against a target that at least 3" vertically lower than that model, add 1 to the hit roll for that attack.

Grapnel Launcher: If a model in this unit has a grapnel launcher, then when that model moves in your Movement phase, do not count any vertical distance it moves against the total it can move that turn.

Gargoyle-class holocloaks: If every model in a unit has a gargoyle-class holocloak, then when resolving an attack made with a ranged weapon against a model in this unit whilst it is receiving the benefit of cover, add 2 to the saving throw instead of 1. In addition, if the unit is entirely on or within the upper floors of a BATTLE SANCTUM, your opponent must subtract 1 from their hit rolls for attacks that target this unit.

...also lol at the stealthy sniper sisters having a simulacrum imperialis

Some lovely ideas, from which I'll pick a few options for the revised Vigils -- see below. Also I'll include the revised Novices & Mistress as well, making the changes discussed upthread. I was tempted to make the Excommunication (sniper) Boltgun available to other Sisters as a heavy weapon, but that seemed OP....
This might well be the final version of these units -- BUT I'd love everyone's keen eye on the rules below to see if I've got it right at last.



Changes/additions from previous versions are in italics (and sometimes also hidden in spoilers to prevent Wall of Text).

***

Elites: VIGIL SQUAD
(5-10 models per unit, 12 points per model)


Stratagem: Infallible Aim (1 CP)
Use this Stratagem with a Vigil Squad is chosen to shoot with. Until the end of that phase, for each unsaved Wound that unit inflicts using Excommunication Boltguns, it inflicts an additional Mortal Wound.

Fluff


Design Notes:



***

Troops: NOVICE SQUAD
(10-20 models per unit, 6 points per model)


Fluff


Design Notes:


Stratagem (1 CP): Don’t Let Them Down
Use this Stratagem during the Morale Phase when any Adeptus Ministoru, unit within 6” of a Novice model fails a morale test. Roll one D6 for each model from such a unit that flees: On 4+ that model does not flee.

***

Elites: Mistress of Novices
(1 model per unit, 35 points per model)


Design Notes:


Fluff (all-new)


Edited to increase Novice squad size to minimum of 10.

Whoops. Just realized that the IG form of the camo cloaks rule is useless for Sisters, since it turns their save when in cover from 2+ to 1+, which is totes illegal. But camo cloaks of some kind are still definitely in-character for these Sisters. So should they count as being in cover even when they're not? Impose a -1 on enemy shooting? Other ideas welcome.

It’s not a 1+, it’s a 3+ on 1d6+2.

That’s fine.

Ohhhh, thank you. I misread the rule. I see, you add 2 to the die roll, which is mathematically quite different from subtracting two from the save value.

Sororitas lore refers to young pages accompanying Canonesses and other leaders, and I've played around with some ideas for what that'd look like. This design is a bit too complex -- I'd love feedback on improving it -- but it's hella fluffy:

Elite: Page
Especially favored Novices accompany Adepta Sororitas officers into battle, carrying their mistress's extra weapons -- and their touching, childlike faith helps them bear their spiritual burdens as well.
(10 points per model, 1 model per unit)
Page M:6” WS:4+ BS:3+ S:3 T:3 W:1 A:1 Ld:6 Sv:4+

A Page is a single model equipped with: bolt pistol; frag grenades; krak grenades.

Wargear Options: none (but see Arms-Bearer below)

Abilities:
Acts of Faith, Sacred Rights, Shield of Faith

Page Girl
Your army may include one Page for each Adepta Sororitas character. If your army is Battle Forged, a Page never takes up a slot in any Detachment.
Before each game, for each Page, designate one Adepta Sororitas character as that Page’s Mistress. Each Page must set up within 2” of her designated Mistress and remain within 2” of her Mistress throughout the game, as if they were part of the same unit.
As long as a Page is within 2" of her Mistress, she may use her Mistress's Leadership for all tests.
If a Page moves more than 2” away from her Mistress for any reason, she loses the Acts of Faith, Sacred Rights, Shield of Faith, and Arms-Bearer abilities until she and her MIstress are in unit coherency again. If a Page’s Mistress is killed, the Page loses these abilities permanently.

Arms-Bearer
The Page may carry one of the following for her Mistress, paying the normal points cost: 1 item from the Melee Weapons list, 1 item from the Ranged Weapons list, an Eviscerator; a Brazier of Holy Fire; a Null Rod; or a Storm Shield.
The Page may never use this wargear. However, as long as the Page is within 2” of her Mistress, the Mistress may use this wargear instead of any one other item the Mistress is equipped with.

Touching Faith
As long as the Page is within 2” of her Mistress, you may perform one Act of Faith this turn for the Mistress, even if you have already performed an Act this turn.

Faction Keywords:
Imperium, Adeptus Ministorum, Adepta Sororitas, ORDER

Keywords:
Infantry, Page


Design Notes

Hmmmm.... not much excitement about the Page idea. Maybe those would work better as the Sororitas equivalent of familiars.

Also, I've updated the Novice Squad rules to put the minimum squad size at 10, to address Evil Kiwi's concern they could be used to farm cheap Detachments for CP in combination with the Palatines I proposed in the Sororitas characters thread (which I urge everyone to check out and critique.

Okay, I will comment on the snipers because my gaming group had an idea for them too, and the rules saw some play too.

Our version of the Sororitas Snipers was a lot beefier than the Vigils, as they came with bolt sniper rifles (all special rounds included) as standard and their special ability was a 36"-range supporting fire (so they could Overwatch for another unit up to 36" away). So yeah, 36" supporting Overwatch with +2 to-hit and no-LoS capability coming at S5 AP-1... it looked pretty brutal on paper. However, they only had a 4+ save and no stealth, only infiltration, and they had a hard limitation of 1 unit per army (not detachment, army).

The playtest result? They were between mediocre and mildly annoying for the opponent. They just don't have synergy with the rest of the army, they spent the game sitting next to the Exorcist and taking potshots at enemy characters (killing none due to bolt sniper rifles being pretty bad at that) and causing some inconvenient moments for enemy units with their Executioner-buffed Supporting Fire. They were neat as a concept but disappointing as a unit. This was before the new 'dex, but I dunno if the Miracle Dice or the Sacred Rose shenanigans would help here.

So dunno about the Vigils, they really need some magic, because snipers in a Sororitas army just don't work.

Wow, the whole Bolt Sniper Rifle package? I checked that out but it felt too OP for Sisters. I also had a supporting-fire Act of Faith in my old fandex. What point cost/power level did you give them for all this?

Vigils are pretty much built to infiltrate, not to hang back -- though the "Among the Gargoyles" rule does help them camp out in a Ministorum building. The two are pretty much mutually exclusive, unless your opponent was kind enough to put an unoccupied Ministorum Structure in their deployment area for some strange reason.....
I figure their tactical role would be to grab a forward position, preferably with decent cover, and disrupt the enemy while your main force comes up. But I'm not a great tactician.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
PS: What I’m trying to say is, if you’ve got a unit that can infiltrate and you’re positioning it in your back line, yeah, it’s going to be underwhelming. The value of an infiltrator is not just that they can start closer to the enemy than the rest of your army: It’s that they can present a threat from a different direction. That means terrain that covers the enemy from the rest of your army’s shooting may not block the infiltrators’, maneuvers that position the enemy’s units more advantageously versus your main body may make them more vulnerable to the infiltrators or less able to attack them, etc.

Sure, Sisters don’t particularly need a 36” bolt weapon firing from their backfield, even if it can potentially snipe characters, because our whole army is firing bolt weapons from the same direction, albeit with less range. But without any infiltrators in our codex, just Sky Striking Seraphim with pistols and Zephyrim with swords, we have no way to deploy ranged firepower on the enemy’s flank. Vigils are meant to fix that.

 SisterSydney wrote:
Wow, the whole Bolt Sniper Rifle package? I checked that out but it felt too OP for Sisters. I also had a supporting-fire Act of Faith in my old fandex. What point cost/power level did you give them for all this?

Power Level 4 for 3 normal models + Superior, then +3 Power Level for up to 4 more normal models. So they would be around 14-15 points per model fully geared up. Every fourth model had the option to replace their bolt sniper rifle with the las-fusil thing (never even considered), and the Superior could take a plasma pistol.

There was no reason to deploy them close. They were wielding long-ranged Heavy weapons with no advantage for closing range and they were T3 Sv4+ with zero close-combat capabilities. Their infiltration ability was used to deploy after the enemy set up so they could position themselves within firing range of potential targets and out of harm's way.

Dunno about what you want to achieve here, that's a tough call to be honest, kinda like infiltrating Dominions?

Well, they can indeed take four special weapons per squad, just like Dominions. Any model can take the sniper boltgun. So you can kit them out for close-range anti-tank or long-range character-killing.