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Made in us
Preacher of the Emperor






Badass warrior women on motorbikes, shooting giant submachineguns one-handed (well, storm bolters) and swinging chainsaws. What’s not to love?

UPDATE: I've revised these biker grrls significantly based on great feedback in this thread -- click here for the the latest version. I've kept the original draft below so the back-and-forth in the ensuing posts actually makes sense.

Actually, this ended up being one of the most controversial of the 34 units in my 7th edition fandex, largely because I didn’t originally want to give them +1 to Wounds and Toughness to make them more “feminine.” But I was convinced otherwise, so now these Sisters get the full benefits of Marine bikes — and in fact they’re faster, because their bikes have the same engine but the riders don’t weigh 700 freaking pounds. They also get a version of the old Hit & Run rule as their Stratagem.

Oh, and they're named for this passage from the vision of the Prophet Ezekiel:

The appearance of the wheels and their workings was like the color of beryl, and all four had the same likeness....As for their rims, they were so high they were awesome; and their rims were full of eyes, all around the four of them. When the living creatures went, the wheels went beside them; and when the living creatures were lifted up from the earth, the wheels were lifted up.....for the spirit of the living creatures was in the wheels.

I’m eager for feedback on what people like and — more importantly — think needs to be changed. For folks interested in helping me homebrew more Sisters, check out Infiltrating Snipers, Novices as Troops and offer your critiques there too.


Edited to add proper access to Special Weapons -- thanks to Evil Kiwi fo spotting that.
Fast Attack: EZEKIEL SQUAD (Sororitas Bikers)
(3-9 models per unit, 20 points per model]
Spoiler:

Ezekiel M:18” WS:4+ BS:3+ S:3 T:4 W:2 A:1 Ld:7 Sv:3+
Ezekiel Superior M:18” WS:4+ BS:3+ S:3 T:4 W:2 A:2 Ld:8 Sv:3+

This unit contains 1 Ezekiel Superior and 2 Ezekiels. It can additionally contain up to 7 Ezekiels. Every model is equipped with a bolt pistol; storm bolter; frag grenades; krak grenades.

Wargear Options:
The Ezekiel Superior can additionally be equipped with 1 weapon from the Melee Weapons list.
The Ezekiel Superior can be equipped with 1 weapon from the Ranged Weapons list instead of 1 storm bolter.
Any Ezekiel can be equipped with 1 chainsword instead of 1 bolt pistol.
Up to two Ezekiels can be equipped with one weapon from the Special Weapons list instead of 1 storm bolter.

Abilities:
Acts of Faith
Sacred Rites
Shield of Faith
Simulacrum Imperialis
Incensor Cherub

Turbo-Boost:
When this unit Advances, add 6” to the Move characteristic of its models until the end of the Movement phase instead of making an Advance roll.

Faction Keywords:
Imperium, Adeptus Ministorum, Adepta Sororitas, <Order>

Keywords:
Biker, Ezekiel Squad


Fluff
Spoiler:

The Adepta Sororitas first began using bikes in M38, when a preceptory of the famously fiery Order of the Bloody Rose annihilated a renegade Marine bike company and seized their mounts as spoils of war. These ad hoc bike units proved such invaluable outriders in subsequent campaigns that their preceptory was elevated to its own Minor Order, the Fiery Wheels. Many other Orders followed their example and adopted bike units, which became known as Ezekiels after an Imperial Saint who had a vision of the Emperor surrounded by living wheels of fire. With the same engine as Marine bikes carrying a much lighter rider, Sororitas Bikers are faster but more fragile than their Astartes counterparts, so they tend towards hit-and-run tactics — and even then, assignment as an Ezekiel a prime opportunity for glorious martyrdom.


Stratagem: Chariot of Fire (1CP)
Pick one Adepta Sororitas Bike unit from your army. That unit may charge this turn even if it Advances or Falls Back, and it does not suffer the penalty for Advancing and firing Assault weapons.

Design notes:
Spoiler:

Compared to Tactical Marine, Marine Biker gets +8” M, +1T, & +1W for +9 points
Compared to Marine Scout, Scout Biker gets +10” M, +1T, +1W for +10 points
This suggests +2” M is +1 point

So:

Start with basic Battle Sisters & Superior (9 ppm)
Add +12” M, +1T, +1W, for +11 points
Total ppm: 20 points

Replacing SM Bike’s Twin Boltguns with a Storm Bolter: zero points since their statelines are identical!
I only made the change because (a) shooting a giant submachine one-handed as you ride a bike seems cooler and (b) the storm bolder stats are already in the Sisters Codex while the twin boltgun's are not.

Stratagem is a version of the White Scars chapter tactic, “Lightning Assault,” from C:SM.


I’d also love to come up with a Bike-mounted Canoness option, and the Marine Codex’s Captain and Captain on Bike entries make that look like a straightforward +8” Move, +1 Toughness, & +1 Wound for 14 points… but then I looked at Legends and the price difference between infantry and bike-mounted characters there is all over the place: +23 points for a Chaplain on a Bike, +25 points for a Biker Techmarine, +39 (!) for a Biker Librarian… so I’d really appreciate input on how to heck to cost a Biker Canoness.

Edited to fix movement rate.

This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2020/04/04 17:18:17


BURN IT DOWN BURN IT DOWN BABY BURN IT DOWN

 Psienesis wrote:
Well, if you check out Sister Sydney's homebrew/expansion rules, you'll find all kinds of units the Sisters could have, that fit with the theme of the Sisters (as a tabletop army) perfectly well, and are damn-near-perfectly balanced.

I’m updating that fandex now & I’m eager for feedback on new home-brew units for the Sisters: Sororitas Bikers, infiltrators & Novices, tanks, flyers, characters, superheavies, Frateris Militia, and now Confessors and Battle Conclave characters
My Novice Ginevra stories start with Bolter B-Word Privileges 
   
Made in us
Witch Hunter Undercover in a Cult







"Ezekiel squad" seems like an odd name; it's a male Hebrew name associated with an Old Testament prophet and in 40k usually refers to a Dark Angels named Librarian, doesn't feel like it fits with the general tone of the army. There was a 5e fan update project for the Inquisition and associated projects that called their Sororitas bikes Ophanim, which is both an order of angels out of the same hierarchy as the Seraphim and means "wheels".

As to costing the bike-mounted Canoness her function is closer to the Space Marine Captain than the other examples (the reroll bubble cares about keeping up with your own troops, which may or may not need to move very fast, as opposed to the Librarian packing Null Zone, who really needs to get into the enemy's face as fast as possible...), but I agree the pricing can be wildly inconsistent. I'd suggest 20pts as a starting point, the Legends Marine characters' costs feel skewed up to me.

Balanced Game: Noun. A game in which all options and choices are worth using. 
   
Made in kw
Lesser Daemon of Chaos




New Orleans

The bike squad seems more or less in line with every other unit of a similar type. I’m not completely sold on the extra movement but I don’t think 2” is going to make that big of a difference.

I would remove the assault and charge ability from the strangem. With the advance the bike squad can move 20” before the charge. That’s basically a guaranteed 1st turn charge which the game designers seemed to have tried hard to eliminate.

Also why can’t the squad take two options from the ranged list like most bike units? It seems a waste to give an ability to fire assault weapons without penalty and only be able to take 1 assault weapon.

Iron within, Iron without 
   
Made in us
Preacher of the Emperor






Thank. Great advice on point costs -- yes, tactical role definitely should affect them, 20 points sounds good since Marine Bike Captains are probably undercosted like most stuff in their Codex -- and good feedback on the name.

I considered Ophanim too, but it seemed really obscure (it's not part of the standard medieval Catholic angel hierarchy, it's only found in Jewish mysticism). My original fandex called them "Thrones," which is a Catholic order of angels and refers to the fact that, well, they go to war sitting on something (a bike), but that felt lame to me.

So we want something that, ideally, conveys three things at once to someone who isn't well versed in obscure Hebrew terms:
(1) angelic
(2) female
(3) fast

I'm pondering but suggestions are VERY welcome.

BURN IT DOWN BURN IT DOWN BABY BURN IT DOWN

 Psienesis wrote:
Well, if you check out Sister Sydney's homebrew/expansion rules, you'll find all kinds of units the Sisters could have, that fit with the theme of the Sisters (as a tabletop army) perfectly well, and are damn-near-perfectly balanced.

I’m updating that fandex now & I’m eager for feedback on new home-brew units for the Sisters: Sororitas Bikers, infiltrators & Novices, tanks, flyers, characters, superheavies, Frateris Militia, and now Confessors and Battle Conclave characters
My Novice Ginevra stories start with Bolter B-Word Privileges 
   
Made in us
Preacher of the Emperor






Whoops, missed Evil Kiwi's helpful comments yesterday, plus I got another PM of advice from Jancoran. The common theme is these bikers aren't sufficiently different from Marine Bikers, and their tactical/thematic role is unclear. I confess that "girls with guns on bikes" is justification in itself for me, but both Jancoran and Evil Kiwi make a good point that "faster but less tough than Marine bikers" might not be distinctive enough.

Given that any Sisters unit is going to be S:3 T:3 instead of S:4 T:4, Sisters bikers are going to be inherently less effective in melee than Marines. And the tactical theme of our army is "let's shoot people from 6" to 12" away." So I think the tactical role of a Sororitas Biker unit needs to be drive-by shootings -- zooming up to enemies, shooting them up, and then zooming away before they can retaliate.

How do we represent that on the tabletop? My first thought is to give them a Stratagem that leaves them make an Advance move after shooting, but I'm very open to suggestions.

Some other critiques from Evil Kiwi:

 evil_kiwi_60 wrote:
The bike squad seems more or less in line with every other unit of a similar type. I’m not completely sold on the extra movement but I don’t think 2” is going to make that big of a difference.

I would remove the assault and charge ability from the strangem. With the advance the bike squad can move 20” before the charge. That’s basically a guaranteed 1st turn charge which the game designers seemed to have tried hard to eliminate.

Also why can’t the squad take two options from the ranged list like most bike units? It seems a waste to give an ability to fire assault weapons without penalty and only be able to take 1 assault weapon.


The lack of two Special Weapons options is a pure oversight on my part - thanks, I'll fix it.

Your point about a 1st turn charge is definitely a concern.
STOP, MATHHAMMER TIME: Using this stratagem or its White Scars equivalent, Marine Bikers can move & advance (Turbo-Boost) 20" before charging, Scout Bikers can move 22" and then charge, and these Sororitas bikers can move 24" and charge. Assuming an average charge roll of 7, those give reliable charge ranges of 27", 29", and 31" respectively, compared to a typical gaming table that's 48" by 72". If you're Ebon Chalice and you can guarantee a Miracle Die of 6 on your first tun, you can reliably charge 9", so that brings Ebon Chalice bikers up to 33".
So:
[1] So there's a real risk of a first turn charge, though quick a guarantee.
[2] Compared to White Scars Bikes (not Scouts, regular Bikers), Sororitas Bikers average +4" on their charge range, or +6" for Ebon Chalice. Is a this game-breakingly big difference? Or are White Scars themselves game-breakingly likely to get a first turn charge and this homebrew unit just makes it worse?

And Jancoran's full PM to me -- I think the rocket/mortar battery idea is cool but seems more IG than Sisters; if we have indirect fire, it's gonna be an alt mode for the Exorcist.

Jancoran wrote:Bikers should be M 14"
I don't know that this unit feels special. I think they also need a purpose that goes beyond just "being a biker".
Like bikes might be used in funerary processions, they might be used as couriers, and so on as they were in Afrika Korps. But whatever the use, the bikes should feel like they are designed for a purpose.
So... what is it that would motivate Sisters to even employ bikes? I feel like without that tactical answer, ading them is just a "we should have them too" thing. Like look at GSC bikes. Really unique focus for them.
I wonder if they couldn't be used to set up portable rocket batteries. For example, right now, the sisters dont have indirect fire but what if they are fast moving units that carry the pieces necessary for a rocket battery, so the idea is the bikes are fast enough to get AROUND terrain, and then like unload ghost mortars(japanese 300mm freaking things) so they could have a strat that lets them do it faster. Zoom super fast to one side, get the line of sight and then fire. Then quickly disassemble and move out again. So they are more about dropping a payload. A big one.
Just spit balling but it should be more than just a bike squad, you know?

BURN IT DOWN BURN IT DOWN BABY BURN IT DOWN

 Psienesis wrote:
Well, if you check out Sister Sydney's homebrew/expansion rules, you'll find all kinds of units the Sisters could have, that fit with the theme of the Sisters (as a tabletop army) perfectly well, and are damn-near-perfectly balanced.

I’m updating that fandex now & I’m eager for feedback on new home-brew units for the Sisters: Sororitas Bikers, infiltrators & Novices, tanks, flyers, characters, superheavies, Frateris Militia, and now Confessors and Battle Conclave characters
My Novice Ginevra stories start with Bolter B-Word Privileges 
   
Made in kw
Lesser Daemon of Chaos




New Orleans

I would argue that most of the space marine supplements are filled with rules that are bad for balance. Ideally they would be reigned in, instead of everyone getting a rules arms race to equal them. All of those distances are decent when deployments are supersets by only 24”.

Advancing after shooting would not be a bad option for a strategem. Most of their weapons want to be within 12” so its wouldn’t be bad to let them get out of good countercharge range. Most armies need some sort of outrider unit.

Do they need to exchange the Combi-Bolter for a special weapon? The SM variants can carry the special weapon and storm bolters.

Iron within, Iron without 
   
Made in us
Preacher of the Emperor






Good points about not trying to copy Astartes OP-ness, and I'll write up a "shoot then advance" stratagem in a bit.

As for special weapons, I think the way I've written it in the first post now (as edited) is that the Superior can take a combi-weapon or power weapon, while any two other bikers can swap their storm bolter for another Special Weapon.

(Instead of having twin bolt guns on the sides of their bike, I see these girls as shooting storm bolters one handed as they ride -- it's much cooler and has the exact same stats, plus it doesn't require adding a new weapon to the Sororitas arsenal).

BURN IT DOWN BURN IT DOWN BABY BURN IT DOWN

 Psienesis wrote:
Well, if you check out Sister Sydney's homebrew/expansion rules, you'll find all kinds of units the Sisters could have, that fit with the theme of the Sisters (as a tabletop army) perfectly well, and are damn-near-perfectly balanced.

I’m updating that fandex now & I’m eager for feedback on new home-brew units for the Sisters: Sororitas Bikers, infiltrators & Novices, tanks, flyers, characters, superheavies, Frateris Militia, and now Confessors and Battle Conclave characters
My Novice Ginevra stories start with Bolter B-Word Privileges 
   
Made in us
Preacher of the Emperor






Before I give you my take on a drive-by-stratagem, I wanted to throw out all my desperate brainstorming on a name for this dang unit. What do people think? In alphabetical order:

Annunciators
Amazons
Charioteers
Ezekiels
Furies
Ophanim
Revelations
Thrones

The name has to stand alone without explanation, but if you're curious, my reasoning, tenuous as it may be, is below in spoilers:

Spoiler:

Annunciators -- because they go before the main host and announce its presence, like Gabriel to the Virgin Mary, only with more bolt-reactive shells
Amazons -- were female horse archers in classical myth, which would be perfect, except Wonder Woman, Xena, and a billion B-movies have kinda overshadowed that original meaning with a new one of "athletic hottie in leather bikini."
Charioteers -- because, y'know, they ride vehicles into battle. It's a bit on the nose and also it's already a Chaos unit.
Ezekiels -- from the Biblical prophet who had a vision of angelic wheels in the sky.
Furies -- fast, divinely appointed punishers. Also a Chaos unit. Damn.
Ophanim -- the Hebrew word for the wheel-angels Ezekiel saw. Like five people know this.
Revelations -- as in, the Book of. Which has Four Horsemen in it? Yeah? No? Okay then.
Thrones -- because they ride into battle seated on a bike. And it's an order of angels in medieval Catholic angelogy.


Okay, so maybe all of those sucked. Here's the stratagem - -what do y'all think of both the rules and the 2-CP cost?

Stratagem: Fateful Lightning (2 CP)
Use this Stratagem after a unit of [Sororitas Bikers] has made all its shooting attacks. That unit may immediately Advance as if it were the Movement phase.

BURN IT DOWN BURN IT DOWN BABY BURN IT DOWN

 Psienesis wrote:
Well, if you check out Sister Sydney's homebrew/expansion rules, you'll find all kinds of units the Sisters could have, that fit with the theme of the Sisters (as a tabletop army) perfectly well, and are damn-near-perfectly balanced.

I’m updating that fandex now & I’m eager for feedback on new home-brew units for the Sisters: Sororitas Bikers, infiltrators & Novices, tanks, flyers, characters, superheavies, Frateris Militia, and now Confessors and Battle Conclave characters
My Novice Ginevra stories start with Bolter B-Word Privileges 
   
Made in au
Dakka Veteran





I reckon they should have chariots pulled by cyber beasts who's ribcages are gibbet cages with penitents imprisoned within powering them like the engines.
   
Made in gb
Regular Dakkanaut





Hellebore wrote:
I reckon they should have chariots pulled by cyber beasts who's ribcages are gibbet cages with penitents imprisoned within powering them like the engines.


I agree that they should have somethiing that isn't just a bike, simply to be different. Hover tombs of martyrs, giant cherubs, four arco-flagelants with a surfboard nailed to their shoulders, that sort of thing.

5126 points 70 points 83 points
900 points 75 points 180 points

1184 points 394 points 1424 points
340 points 1098 points 422 points

704 points 2629 points 769 points
 
   
Made in us
Preacher of the Emperor






Those are awesome ideas for units — I’ll definitely try homebrewing on of those later. For this thread I’m going to focus on “girls with guns on bikes,” though.

BURN IT DOWN BURN IT DOWN BABY BURN IT DOWN

 Psienesis wrote:
Well, if you check out Sister Sydney's homebrew/expansion rules, you'll find all kinds of units the Sisters could have, that fit with the theme of the Sisters (as a tabletop army) perfectly well, and are damn-near-perfectly balanced.

I’m updating that fandex now & I’m eager for feedback on new home-brew units for the Sisters: Sororitas Bikers, infiltrators & Novices, tanks, flyers, characters, superheavies, Frateris Militia, and now Confessors and Battle Conclave characters
My Novice Ginevra stories start with Bolter B-Word Privileges 
   
Made in us
Hurr! Ogryn Bone 'Ead!





Gainesville, VA

Lancers
I mean; I know they are not actually carrying lances or anything, but they, being the fast ones, are similar to cavalry, and would be the 'tip of the spear' and the first into action (along with the jet pack ladies of course).
I also thought of Cataphracts, as they are heavily armoured cavalry, but I think some SM unit has that and it'd seem a bit off probably.

As for the stratagem, when you say 'Advance' is that a full 'move + advance', or just the 6"? Might be clearer just to have them move up to 6" if that's the case. Might want to also specify that this cannot be used if they are already within 1" of an enemy unit (because they could have all shot with pistols into combat - unlikely I know, but its there.)
   
Made in us
Preacher of the Emperor






Yes, it’s a good clarification to make, thanks. As for names , I’m leaning towards Heralds, which clearly implies angels that move fast ahead of the heavenly host.
I know, yes, it’s also a type of Chaos Daemon, but GW was also willing to use the name for a Heresy-era Astartes rank , so it’s not solely associated with chaos. Plus it makes a certain sense that if the Great Enemy has heralds, the Ecclesiarchy’s holy army should have heralds of its own to oppose them.

BURN IT DOWN BURN IT DOWN BABY BURN IT DOWN

 Psienesis wrote:
Well, if you check out Sister Sydney's homebrew/expansion rules, you'll find all kinds of units the Sisters could have, that fit with the theme of the Sisters (as a tabletop army) perfectly well, and are damn-near-perfectly balanced.

I’m updating that fandex now & I’m eager for feedback on new home-brew units for the Sisters: Sororitas Bikers, infiltrators & Novices, tanks, flyers, characters, superheavies, Frateris Militia, and now Confessors and Battle Conclave characters
My Novice Ginevra stories start with Bolter B-Word Privileges 
   
Made in kw
Lesser Daemon of Chaos




New Orleans

Also is there going to be an attack bike option for them?

Iron within, Iron without 
   
Made in us
Preacher of the Emperor






That's a good question. I personally don't like the Attack Bike model that much, and the idea of a big 3-wheeled gun platform doesn't fit well with the sleek aesthetic I'm imagining for the Sororitas bikes. (Something like this).

But I'm entirely open to persuasion.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
PS: I've also posted homebrew Sororitas Predators, which I'd love everyone's critique of.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/02/28 19:22:40


BURN IT DOWN BURN IT DOWN BABY BURN IT DOWN

 Psienesis wrote:
Well, if you check out Sister Sydney's homebrew/expansion rules, you'll find all kinds of units the Sisters could have, that fit with the theme of the Sisters (as a tabletop army) perfectly well, and are damn-near-perfectly balanced.

I’m updating that fandex now & I’m eager for feedback on new home-brew units for the Sisters: Sororitas Bikers, infiltrators & Novices, tanks, flyers, characters, superheavies, Frateris Militia, and now Confessors and Battle Conclave characters
My Novice Ginevra stories start with Bolter B-Word Privileges 
   
Made in gb
Regular Dakkanaut




Wouldn't it make more sense to name this unit after the actual wheel-angels described in that passage, so that they're called Ophanim or Galgalim? That would match the existing naming conventions of Seraphims, Dominions, etc. Other thoughts:

  • 18" seems really, really fast. That's 4" faster than Space Marine bikes, Atalan Jackals, Ork Warbikers, and Necron Tomb Blades, even before factoring in Turbo-Boost. That's Aeldari jetbike speed. Even the Scout Bikes only have 16", which would seem a bit more reasonable.
  • re: Stratagem – Judgement of the Faithful already does Fall-Back-and-Charge, and Holy Rage does Advance-and-Charge. Advance-and-Shoot with no penalty is a new one, though given the weapons on offer that just means specifically meltaguns. Which is fine, considering a three-bike melta delivery system is the main use for this unit, but Argent Shroud already takes care of that.
  • I'm struggling to imagine how a biker carries a Simulacrum Imperialis, unless it's meant as a back-mounted banner-style thing? Or the Incensor Cherub, for that matter – how does it keep up with a 24" move?
  • This unit is going to hit like a wet sandwich in combat, given it's got two WS4+ S3 AP0 D1 attacks each, in at most a 10-model unit. A Bloody Rose biker unit will have a better time of it – they can charge basically anything on the board, and toss out 3 attacks each with AP-1... but it's still pretty limp. Toss in the Bloody Rose Stratagem and the Passion Sacred Rite, and you can wipe out a GEQ squad, or average six wounds on a unit of Space Marines... But that's a 200+pt biker squad with 2CP. For that cost you could get 10 Arco-Flagellants or Repentia, and a Rhino to stick them in. Or 4 Penitent Engines.
  • With that performance in mind, I'd assume the unit is mostly meant as a weapons platform? As an anti-infantry platform with Storm Bolters (or Flamers), it's strictly superior to Dominions – slightly less than twice the cost, but more than twice as tough and three times faster, completely blowing the Dominion Vanguard ability out of the water. Not as good as Scout Bikers at filling that role, thanks to no Bolter Discipline, and therefore not all that spectacular, but them's the breaks. Still not sure I'd take Dominions compared to these bikes, unless I was really short on points.
  • Given its speed, this unit's main application would be a three-bike Argent Shroud melta delivery system; park them out of line of sight, jet forward 24" in the Movement phase, then shoot three meltas at a unit within half range. That'll get you a melta wound, on average, and seems the most viable application.
  • Have you considered leaning into that, and making them more of a "lance" unit? Name them Chevaliers, give them power lances for the charge, and let them swap their power lance for a special weapon. Or outright make them "melta lancers", and give them a Stratagem or ability that lets them "fight" with a melta weapon on the charge, in the style of the T'au Fusion Blades relic.
  • This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2020/03/12 17:12:31


     
       
    Made in ca
    Missionary On A Mission






    Perhaps something a little more like an atalan jackal unit rather than a SM biker unit?

    Sisters of Battle
    Genestealer Cults
    Daemons lots of Daemons
    Daughters of Khaine
    Bretonnians

     
       
    Made in us
    Preacher of the Emperor






    Thanks, very helpful critique. i'm going to go point by point (and change the order a little in the process), which I know is not great forum manners, but otherwise I don't think I'll be able to keep this all straight.

    RevlidRas wrote:
    Wouldn't it make more sense to name this unit after the actual wheel-angels described in that passage, so that they're called Ophanim or Galgalim? That would match the existing naming conventions of Seraphims, Dominions, etc.


    I'd love to... but those Hebrew names are REALLY obscure. "Herald" at least connects to "angels" in most people's minds because of Christmas pageants and Charlie Brown specials.....

    ]18" seems really, really fast. That's 4" faster than Space Marine bikes, Atalan Jackals, Ork Warbikers, and Necron Tomb Blades, even before factoring in Turbo-Boost. That's Aeldari jetbike speed. Even the Scout Bikes only have 16", which would seem a bit more reasonable.


    Yeah, it's meant to have ludicrous speed as its shtick, because durability ain't it compared to T5 bikers.... Being as fast as jetbikes might be OTT, though, I admit. Do they really go 18" base + 6" turboboost in current rules? I don't have the Eldar book.

    This unit is going to hit like a wet sandwich in combat, given it's got two WS4+ S3 AP0 D1 attacks each, in at most a 10-model unit. A Bloody Rose biker unit will have a better time of it – they can charge basically anything on the board, and toss out 3 attacks each with AP-1... but it's still pretty limp...


    Yeah. That's why folks suggested the Shoot-then-Move stratagem, because this is not the kind of biker unit that wants to charge across the board into melee -- which isn't really how Sisters operate. Speedy and shooty is the shtick.

    ]re: Stratagem – Judgement of the Faithful already does Fall-Back-and-Charge, and Holy Rage does Advance-and-Charge. Advance-and-Shoot with no penalty is a new one, though given the weapons on offer that just means specifically meltaguns. Which is fine, considering a three-bike melta delivery system is the main use for this unit, but Argent Shroud already takes care of that.


    Point one: I should've made the stratagem carry a -1 shooting penalty, good catch.
    Point two: Good analysis that the main practical use for this is meltagun delivery a la oldschool mech Dominions. I hadn't quite thought that through, but that use is way more viable in this current meta than stormbolters.

    I'm struggling to imagine how a biker carries a Simulacrum Imperialis, unless it's meant as a back-mounted banner-style thing? Or the Incensor Cherub, for that matter – how does it keep up with a 24" move?


    A back-banner Simulacrum was my original idea, but yeah, it doesn't make sense, and GW has been careful to reserve that for infantry, so I should excise it.


    ]Have you considered leaning into that, and making them more of a "lance" unit? Name them Chevaliers, give them power lances for the charge, and let them swap their power lance for a special weapon. Or outright make them "melta lancers", and give them a Stratagem or ability that lets them "fight" with a melta weapon on the charge, in the style of the T'au Fusion Blades relic.


    That's tempting, certainly very cool, but I think that's a different unit. These are the speedy shooty biker chicks. Given their WS:4+ S:3 T:4, I'm at a loss to figure out how to turn them into speedy stabby biker chicks, even with power weapons or melta pistols.

    I wonder if we could homebrew Crusaders on bikes with lances, or maybe Arco-Flagellants with bikes surgically grafted on their bodies instead of legs? That sounds pretty freakin' metal in a very 40K way.

    BURN IT DOWN BURN IT DOWN BABY BURN IT DOWN

     Psienesis wrote:
    Well, if you check out Sister Sydney's homebrew/expansion rules, you'll find all kinds of units the Sisters could have, that fit with the theme of the Sisters (as a tabletop army) perfectly well, and are damn-near-perfectly balanced.

    I’m updating that fandex now & I’m eager for feedback on new home-brew units for the Sisters: Sororitas Bikers, infiltrators & Novices, tanks, flyers, characters, superheavies, Frateris Militia, and now Confessors and Battle Conclave characters
    My Novice Ginevra stories start with Bolter B-Word Privileges 
       
    Made in us
    Preacher of the Emperor






    Here's the revised version, with the new name, modified fluff, revised stratagem (with -1 to shooting in exchange for advancing after shooting), and the option for up to four bikers to take Special Weapons, not just two. That significantly improves their tactical value as 6th-edition-Dominion-esque speedy delivery for meltaguns. Yes, Marine Bikers get only two Special Weapons per squad, but they also get the option to take an attack bike or form a whole squad of attack bikes, which Sororitas bikers don't.
    Changes are marked in italics. What does everyone think?

    Fast Attack: HERALD SQUAD
    (3-9 models per unit, 20 points per model]
    Spoiler:

    Herald M:18” WS:4+ BS:3+ S:3 T:4 W:2 A:1 Ld:7 Sv:3+
    Herald Superior M:18” WS:4+ BS:3+ S:3 T:4 W:2 A:2 Ld:8 Sv:3+

    This unit contains 1 Herald Superior and 2 Heralds. It can additionally contain up to 7 Heralds. Every model is equipped with a bolt pistol; storm bolter; frag grenades; krak grenades.

    Wargear Options:
    The Herald Superior can additionally be equipped with 1 weapon from the Melee Weapons list.
    The Herald Superior can be equipped with 1 weapon from the Ranged Weapons list instead of 1 storm bolter.
    Any Herald can be equipped with 1 chainsword instead of 1 bolt pistol.
    Up to four Heralds can be equipped with one weapon from the Special Weapons list instead of 1 storm bolter.

    Abilities:
    Acts of Faith
    Sacred Rites
    Shield of Faith

    Turbo-Boost:
    When this unit Advances, add 6” to the Move characteristic of its models until the end of the Movement phase instead of making an Advance roll.

    Faction Keywords:
    Imperium, Adeptus Ministorum, Adepta Sororitas, ORDER

    Keywords:
    Biker, Herald Squad


    Fluff (some new)
    Spoiler:

    The Adepta Sororitas had long used small numbers of high-speed bikes as couriers — known as Heralds — to carry orders when vox communications were jammed by electronic warfare or the Warp. But they first employed bikes en masse in battle in M38, when a preceptory of the famously fiery Order of the Bloody Rose annihilated a renegade Marine bike company and seized their mounts as spoils of war. These ad hoc bike units proved such invaluable outriders in subsequent campaigns that their preceptory was elevated to its own Minor Order, the Fiery Wheels. Many other Orders followed their example and adopted bike units, which retained the Herald name of their courier predecessors, now acting as heralds of the oncoming host. With the same engine as Marine bikes carrying a much lighter rider, Sororitas Bikers are faster but more fragile than their Astartes counterparts, so they tend towards hit-and-run tactics. Even then, assignment as a Herald is a prime opportunity for glorious martyrdom.


    Stratagem: Chariot of Fire (1CP)
    In the Shooting phase, pick one Adepta Sororitas Bike unit from your army. That unit may shoot its Assault weapons, subtracting one from all rolls to hit, and then immediately move 6” as if Advancing.

    Design notes:
    Spoiler:

    Compared to Tactical Marine, Marine Biker gets +8” M, +1T, & +1W for +9 points
    Compared to Marine Scout, Scout Biker gets +10” M, +1T, +1W for +10 points
    This suggests +2” M is +1 point

    So:

    Start with basic Battle Sisters & Superior (9 ppm)
    Add +12” M, +1T, +1W, for +11 points
    Total ppm: 20 points

    Replacing SM Bike’s Twin Boltguns with a Storm Bolter: zero points since their statelines are identical!
    I only made the change because (a) shooting a giant submachinegun one-handed as you ride a bike seems cooler and (b) the storm bolter stats are already in the Sisters Codex while the twin boltgun's are not.

    This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/03/15 20:46:38


    BURN IT DOWN BURN IT DOWN BABY BURN IT DOWN

     Psienesis wrote:
    Well, if you check out Sister Sydney's homebrew/expansion rules, you'll find all kinds of units the Sisters could have, that fit with the theme of the Sisters (as a tabletop army) perfectly well, and are damn-near-perfectly balanced.

    I’m updating that fandex now & I’m eager for feedback on new home-brew units for the Sisters: Sororitas Bikers, infiltrators & Novices, tanks, flyers, characters, superheavies, Frateris Militia, and now Confessors and Battle Conclave characters
    My Novice Ginevra stories start with Bolter B-Word Privileges 
       
    Made in us
    Preacher of the Emperor






    I just got the Genestealer Cults codex -- or, as I've started to think of it, Codex:Arseholes, because they're the dickiest faction in 40K -- and was intrigued to see the Skilled Riders rule still exists, as a -1 to being shot. This actually fits well with my idea for fast, agile Sororitas Bikers, even better than having 18" move.

    What do folks think, and what should it cost?

    PS: I've also started a new thread on Sororitas Flyers. Valkyries with Acts of Faith and Marauders with Exorcists on them. Yessss.... Comments eagerly welcomed over there as well.

    This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/03/22 18:24:23


    BURN IT DOWN BURN IT DOWN BABY BURN IT DOWN

     Psienesis wrote:
    Well, if you check out Sister Sydney's homebrew/expansion rules, you'll find all kinds of units the Sisters could have, that fit with the theme of the Sisters (as a tabletop army) perfectly well, and are damn-near-perfectly balanced.

    I’m updating that fandex now & I’m eager for feedback on new home-brew units for the Sisters: Sororitas Bikers, infiltrators & Novices, tanks, flyers, characters, superheavies, Frateris Militia, and now Confessors and Battle Conclave characters
    My Novice Ginevra stories start with Bolter B-Word Privileges 
       
    Made in us
    Preacher of the Emperor






    Comparing Genestealer Cult bikers and Space Marine ones, I find it very hard to cost Skilled Outrider (-1 to be hit by shooting), since it takes the place of Turbo-Boost (guaranteed max advance) as the unit's distinctive special rule... but I'd like Sisters to have both Turbo-Boost and Skilled Outrider, since they're fast and agile.
    I want Sororitas bikers to be at least as fast as Marine Scouts, 16". So can I get away with cutting their speed by 2", giving them -1 to be hit by shooting, and keeping the point cost at 20 per model? Or is that getting greedy?

    BURN IT DOWN BURN IT DOWN BABY BURN IT DOWN

     Psienesis wrote:
    Well, if you check out Sister Sydney's homebrew/expansion rules, you'll find all kinds of units the Sisters could have, that fit with the theme of the Sisters (as a tabletop army) perfectly well, and are damn-near-perfectly balanced.

    I’m updating that fandex now & I’m eager for feedback on new home-brew units for the Sisters: Sororitas Bikers, infiltrators & Novices, tanks, flyers, characters, superheavies, Frateris Militia, and now Confessors and Battle Conclave characters
    My Novice Ginevra stories start with Bolter B-Word Privileges 
       
    Made in ca
    Revving Ravenwing Biker




    Vancouver, BC

     SisterSydney wrote:
    Comparing Genestealer Cult bikers and Space Marine ones, I find it very hard to cost Skilled Outrider (-1 to be hit by shooting), since it takes the place of Turbo-Boost (guaranteed max advance) as the unit's distinctive special rule... but I'd like Sisters to have both Turbo-Boost and Skilled Outrider, since they're fast and agile.
    I want Sororitas bikers to be at least as fast as Marine Scouts, 16". So can I get away with cutting their speed by 2", giving them -1 to be hit by shooting, and keeping the point cost at 20 per model? Or is that getting greedy?

    What's wrong with turbo boost and jink saves?
       
    Made in us
    Preacher of the Emperor






    Pretty sure only Dark Angels get the Jink rule in 8th.... which is annoying.

    BURN IT DOWN BURN IT DOWN BABY BURN IT DOWN

     Psienesis wrote:
    Well, if you check out Sister Sydney's homebrew/expansion rules, you'll find all kinds of units the Sisters could have, that fit with the theme of the Sisters (as a tabletop army) perfectly well, and are damn-near-perfectly balanced.

    I’m updating that fandex now & I’m eager for feedback on new home-brew units for the Sisters: Sororitas Bikers, infiltrators & Novices, tanks, flyers, characters, superheavies, Frateris Militia, and now Confessors and Battle Conclave characters
    My Novice Ginevra stories start with Bolter B-Word Privileges 
       
    Made in us
    Lesser Daemon of Chaos




    New Orleans

    I think the -1 to hit is starting to stack on too many benefits. Plus it’s going to be better than an auto advance 99% of the time.

    Iron within, Iron without 
       
    Made in ca
    Revving Ravenwing Biker




    Vancouver, BC

     SisterSydney wrote:
    Pretty sure only Dark Angels get the Jink rule in 8th.... which is annoying.

    I learned something new today. My Black Knights are even more awesome than I thought.
       
    Made in us
    Preacher of the Emperor






     evil_kiwi_60 wrote:
    I think the -1 to hit is starting to stack on too many benefits. Plus it’s going to be better than an auto advance 99% of the time.


    I dunno... If you compare the revised version of Heralds (20 points per model) to Marine Bikers (21 ppm), the Sisters at 1 less point per model get +4" Move but -1 to WS, S, and T. That really makes me think they're overcosted as-is. So I really think I can shave 2" off their move, add -1 to hit, and keep cost at 20 ppm.

    BURN IT DOWN BURN IT DOWN BABY BURN IT DOWN

     Psienesis wrote:
    Well, if you check out Sister Sydney's homebrew/expansion rules, you'll find all kinds of units the Sisters could have, that fit with the theme of the Sisters (as a tabletop army) perfectly well, and are damn-near-perfectly balanced.

    I’m updating that fandex now & I’m eager for feedback on new home-brew units for the Sisters: Sororitas Bikers, infiltrators & Novices, tanks, flyers, characters, superheavies, Frateris Militia, and now Confessors and Battle Conclave characters
    My Novice Ginevra stories start with Bolter B-Word Privileges 
       
    Made in ca
    Revving Ravenwing Biker




    Vancouver, BC

     SisterSydney wrote:
     evil_kiwi_60 wrote:
    I think the -1 to hit is starting to stack on too many benefits. Plus it’s going to be better than an auto advance 99% of the time.


    I dunno... If you compare the revised version of Heralds (20 points per model) to Marine Bikers (21 ppm), the Sisters at 1 less point per model get +4" Move but -1 to WS, S, and T. That really makes me think they're overcosted as-is. So I really think I can shave 2" off their move, add -1 to hit, and keep cost at 20 ppm.

    Why do they need to be as fast as jetbikes to fit the fluff? It seems to me like they should just be scout bikers with a 3+ save and SoB keywords.
       
    Made in us
    Lesser Daemon of Chaos




    New Orleans

    -1 to hit is vastly superior to the drop in toughness. Every shooting attack is impacted by that penalty. T4 v T5 only matters for S4, S5, S8, and S9 weapons. Almost anyone would take the hit penalty over one better toughness value.

    The WS4+ and S3 skill doesn’t really matter because this unit was never meant to be a deadly close combat unit. Bikes generally charge to tie up units or clear off screen remnants. The bikes main utility is the high number of special weapons which still take advantage of the BS 3+.

    Maybe stick the -1 if the unit advances?.

    Iron within, Iron without 
       
    Made in us
    Preacher of the Emperor






    Hmmmm. I see your point, but I still think -1 to hit isn't worth more than the whole package of what I'm proposing to give up for it:-1 to WS, S, and T, and -2" to Move. Sure, the unit with these changes is better at its melta-and-run role, but it's significantly more vulnerable if it's ever caught in close combat, which enemy bikers and certain flyers can definitely achieve -- even infantry in some cases.
    Remember you want to shoot from 6" to take advantage of the melta rule, and even after spending the CP for the stratagem to run away another 6", an infantry unit you shot up can move 6" and charge an average of 7" to catch you.

    This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/03/29 13:50:18


    BURN IT DOWN BURN IT DOWN BABY BURN IT DOWN

     Psienesis wrote:
    Well, if you check out Sister Sydney's homebrew/expansion rules, you'll find all kinds of units the Sisters could have, that fit with the theme of the Sisters (as a tabletop army) perfectly well, and are damn-near-perfectly balanced.

    I’m updating that fandex now & I’m eager for feedback on new home-brew units for the Sisters: Sororitas Bikers, infiltrators & Novices, tanks, flyers, characters, superheavies, Frateris Militia, and now Confessors and Battle Conclave characters
    My Novice Ginevra stories start with Bolter B-Word Privileges 
       
    Made in ca
    Revving Ravenwing Biker




    Vancouver, BC

     SisterSydney wrote:
    Hmmmm. I see your point, but I still think -1 to hit isn't worth more than the whole package of what I'm proposing to give up for it:-1 to WS, S, and T, and -2" to Move. Sure, the unit with these changes is better at its melta-and-run role, but it's significantly more vulnerable if it's ever caught in close combat, which enemy bikers and certain flyers can definitely achieve -- even infantry in some cases.
    Remember you want to shoot from 6" to take advantage of the melta rule, and even after spending the CP for the stratagem to run away another 6", an infantry unit you shot up can move 6" and charge an average of 7" to catch you.

    What you're doing, if done for a D&D character, would be called min-maxing. You keep trying to trade away things your unit doesn't need WS, S, T at full value for things that they will use every game such as a -1 to hit, jetbike class movement speed, and a bespoke fallback after shooting rule. It's pretty overturned at the moment when compared to bike units from other army lists.
       
     
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