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Made in us
Preacher of the Emperor






Six years ago, savvy Dakkanauts helped me homebrew up a whopping 34 new units for the Adepta Sororitas, and the new codex -- which while great, still has some major gaps -- has inspired me to update them for 8th edition. Well, update some of them; I'm not sure I'm going to redo, say, the deep striking Knight with wings of light or the Penitent Titan. I'm starting with two of the less OTT units, as well as a new character to accompany them. I'm eager for feedback on rules and point values from all comers:

UPDATED: Based on great feedback from everyone on this thread, I've revised these rules twice -- click here for the latest version. The first draft is still included below for reference, since without it the following posts don't make much sense...


Vigils (12 points): Elite infiltrators who can take sniper rifles, even more important in this edition because you desperately need a way to shut down characters. Their Stratagem rerolls Wounds.
Novices (7 points): Child soldiers of the Adepta Sororitas, relatively cheap Troops in carapace armor (so Sv:4+) that inspire nearby Sisters to stand firm and protect them.
Mistress of Novices (35 points): A character who buffs nearby Novice squads and can do a double-range Heroic Intervention if they get in trouble -- you can give the later ability to any Sororitas character as a 1 CP Stratagem.

Rules, fluff, & some design notes follow in spoilers to avoid Wall Of Text:

***

Elites: VIGIL SQUAD
{5-10 models per unit, 12 points per model)

Spoiler:

Vigil M:6” WS:4+ BS:3+ S:3 T:3 W:1 A:1 Ld:7 Sv:3+
Vigil Superior M:6” WS:4+ BS:3+ S:3 T:3 W:1 A:2 Ld:8 Sv:3+

This unit contains 1 Vigil Superior and 4 Vigils. It can additionally contain up to 5 Vigils. Every model is equipped with: bolt pistol; boltgun; frag grenades; krak grenades; camo cloaks.

Camo Cloaks:
If every model in this unit has a camo cloak, then when resolving an attack made with a ranged weapon against a model in this unit whilst it is receiving the benefit of cover, add 2 to the saving throw instead of 1.

Wargear Options:
Any Vigil, including the Superior, can be equipped with one Sniper Rifle instead of 1 boltgun.
Sniper Rifle: Range 36" S:4 AP:0 D:1
Abilities: A model firing a sniper weapon can target an enemy Character even if they are not the closest enemy unit. If you roll a wound roll of 6+ for this weapon, it inflicts a mortal wont in addition to its normal damage.
Point Value: 2

Up to 4 Vigils can be equipped with 1 weapon from the Special Weapons list instead of 1 boltgun.
1 Vigil equipped with 1 boltgun can have a Simulacrum Imperialis.
The Vigil Superior can additionally be equipped with 1 weapon from the Melee Weapons list, or can be equipped with 1 weapon from the Melee Weapons list instead of 1 boltgun.
The Vigil Superior can be equipped with 1 weapon from the Ranged Weapons list instead of 1 boltgun.
The Vigil Superior can be equipped with 1 weapon from the Pistols list instead of 1 bolt pistol.
The unit can have an incensor cherub.

Abilities:
Acts of Faith
Sacred Rites
Shield of Faith
Simulacrum Imperialis
Incensor Cherub

Concealed Positions:
When you set up this unit during deployment, it can be set up anywhere on the battlefield that is more than 9” away from the enemy deployment zone and any enemy models.

Faction Keywords:
Imperium, Adeptus Ministorum, Adepta Sororitas, <Order>

Keywords:
Infantry, Vigil Squad


Strategem: Infallible Aim (1 CP)
Use this Stratagem with a Vigil Squad fires Overwatch or is chosen to shoot with. Until the end of that phase, sniper rifles that models in that unit are equipped with have an Armour Penetration characteristic of -2 and a Damage characteristic of 2.

Fluff
Spoiler:

Only the most cool-headed and cold-blooded Sisters are chosen for the Vigils, a elite which originated in the notoriously rational Order of the Sacred Rose. While Repentia unnerve many regular Sisters with their screaming fury, Vigils are considered uncanny for their icy calm and their near-total silence. Only the Superiors speak at all, and that sparingly. The regular Vigils follow the strictest vows of silence, coordinating their actions only by a few sparse hand gestures and an eerie, wordless intuition that needs no outward sign at all. Shrouded in sacred camouflage cloaks, their power armour anointed with blessed lubricants to move without a sound, their optics illumined to piece the darkness of the night, Vigils infiltrate into key positions and then wait for hours, days, or weeks to observe the enemy and -- if so ordered -- strike.


Design Notes:
Spoiler:

Start with Dominions (10ppm).
Add camo cloaks (+1 ppm?)
Upgrade Vanguard to Concealed Positions (+1 ppm?)
Total: 12 ppm

Strategem is simply relabeling of "Blessed Bolts" for sniper rifles instead of storm bolters.



***


Troops: NOVICE SQUAD
(5-20 models per unit, 6 points per model)
Spoiler:

Novice M:6” WS:4+ BS:3+ S:3 T:3 W:1 A:1 Ld:6 Sv:4+
Provisional Superior M:6” WS:3+ BS:3+ S:3 T:3 W:1 A:2 Ld:7 Sv:4+

This unit contains 1 Provisional Superior and 4 Novice. It can additionally contain up to 15 Novices. Every model is equipped with: bolt pistol; boltgun; frag grenades; krak grenades.

Wargear Options:
If this unit contains fewer than 10 models, one Novice can be equipped with 1 weapon from the Special Weapons list instead of 1 boltgun.
If this squad contains at least 10 models, one Novice can be equipped with 1 weapon from the Special Weapons List instead of 1 boltgun, and one other Novice can be equipped with 1 weapon from the Heavy Weapons list or 1 weapon from the Special Weapons list instead of 1 boltgun.


Abilities:
Acts of Faith
Sacred Rites
Shield of Faith

Under Admiring Eyes:
Roll one D6 when an <Adeptus Ministorum> model flees whilst its unit is within 6” of any friendly models with this ability. On a 4+ that model does not flee.

Faction Keywords:
Imperium, Adeptus Ministorum, Adepta Sororitas, <Order>

Keywords:
Infantry, Novice Squad


Fluff
Spoiler:

When a prospective Sister of Battle graduates from the Schola Progenium around age 12, she is sent to the Adepta Sororitas for what is typically a six-year Novitiate. As a Novice, she learns the Sisterhood's traditions, rituals, tactics, and weaponry. A strength-augmentation harness worn over her carapace armour allows the teenage girl to handle the weight of the holy bolter, letting her train from the first day of her Novitiate with the weapon she will use for the rest of her life -- however long or short it may be.
As a matter of both military doctrine and maternal instinct, the Sisterhood tries to keep its Novices safe, at least by the standards of the Imperium. Novices often accompany Battle Sisters on campaign as pages, serving their elders and observing the Sororitas way of war first-hand while being carefully graded for their skills, piety, and nerve. Older Novices being considered for the Orders Militant are even organized into squads and sent into combat as a form of live-fire training, albeit usually against weak targets and with extensive backup. Often they are held back of the main battle line as both a tactical and moral backstop, their very presence making their elder sisters too ashamed to waver.
Only as a desperate measure would the Sororitas throw their "Little Sisters" into pitched battle. But desperate times call for desperate measures, and in the grim darkness of a waning Imperium, times are desperate all the time….


Stratagem: Don’t You Touch Them! (1 CP)
When an enemy raises its unclean hands against a Novice of the Sororitas, their elder sisters rush to their defense.
Use this Stratagem after the enemy has completed all of their charge moves, if any enemy model is within 1” of a Novice model. One <Adepta Sororitas> character within 6” of such an enemy model may perform a Heroic Intervention, instead of the usual 3”. When doing so, the character can move up to 6” instead of 3”, as long as they end the move closer to an enemy model that is within 1” of a Novice model.


Design Notes:
Spoiler:

Start with Tempestus Scions (7pm).
Replace hot-shot lasgun with boltgun & bolt pistol (0 ppm?)
Replace Aerial Drop special rule with less powerful "Under Admiring Eyes," which is effectively the MIssionary's "Word of the Emperor" ability (-1 ppm)
Total: 6 ppm


***

Elites: Mistress of Novices
(1 model per unit, 35 points per model)
Spoiler:

M:6” WS:4+ BS:3+ S:3 T:3 W:4 A:3 Ld:8 Sv:3+

A Mistress of Novice is a single model equipped with boltgun; bolt pistol; krak grenades; frag grenades.

Wargear Options:
This model can additionally be equipped with 1 weapon from the Melee Weapons list, or can be equipped with 1 weapon from the Melee Weapons list instead of 1 boltgun.
This model can be equipped with 1 weapon from the Ranged Weapons list instead of 1 boltgun.
This model can be equipped with 1 weapon from the Pistols list instead of 1 bolt pistol.

Abilities:
Acts of Faith
Sacred Rites
Shield of Faith

Suffer the Children
Friendly <Order> Novice units within 6” of this model can use its Leadership characteristic instead of their own.
If your army is Battle-Forged, this model does not take up a slot in a Detachment that includes any <Order> Novice units]

Mother Bear
After the enemy has completed all of their charge moves, if any enemy model is within 1” of a Novice model and also within 6” of a Mistress of Novices, the Mistress may perform a Heroic Intervention. When doing so, the Mistress can move up to 6” instead of 3”, as long as she ends the move closer to an enemy model that is within 1” of a Novice model.

This message was edited 8 times. Last update was at 2020/03/15 20:15:30


BURN IT DOWN BURN IT DOWN BABY BURN IT DOWN

 Psienesis wrote:
Well, if you check out Sister Sydney's homebrew/expansion rules, you'll find all kinds of units the Sisters could have, that fit with the theme of the Sisters (as a tabletop army) perfectly well, and are damn-near-perfectly balanced.

I’m updating that fandex now & I’m eager for feedback on new home-brew units for the Sisters: Sororitas Bikers, infiltrators & Novices, tanks, flyers, characters, superheavies, Frateris Militia, and now Confessors and Battle Conclave characters
My Novice Ginevra stories start with Bolter B-Word Privileges 
   
Made in us
Monstrous Master Moulder






I remember that codex. Quite the impressive feat of work! Glad to see you’re back in the saddle.
This is coming from someone who never went past 6e, so please take what I say with a grain of salt. Apologies if this comes across as blunt.

Vigils
Spoiler:
I don’t really have much to say about this unit, since I’m not very familiar with 8E or SoB in general. Still, here are a couple of points:
- I recall the statline for sniper rifles had something like “S: X” And some special rules. Does this still apply for 8E?
- Not sure how limited the weapon options are for units, but I probably wouldn’t want my stealth unit sporting a meltagun or a bright plasma gun. Is there any way to limit what a unit can get? This is, assuming you’re interested.


Novices
Spoiler:
I like the fluff for this one, and gives the Sororitas an equivalent to the Space Marine scouts. I think my only comment regarding this unit, is that it doesn’t appear to have much in the way of drawbacks. I could run an entire army of novices, and it could still be an improvement over the battle sisters.
- The wording regarding the wargear options is a bit redundant. It seems regardless of the number of models, one novice can take a special weapon. My recommended wording would be: “one Novice can replace their boltgun with 1 weapon from the Special Weapons list. If this squad contains at least 10 models, one more Novice replace their boltgun with 1 weapon from the Heavy Weapons list or 1 weapon from the Special Weapons list “
- The idea of protective sisterhood is kind of sweet, and a nice way to differentiate them from Space Marines. It’s cool to see that this sisterhood works both ways too, and it encourages the elder sisters to fight harder. This might also be a good place for a drawback. Maybe the elder sisters are too overprotective, and get themselves killed to save their Novices? Maybe the Novices break when they see their elder sisters breaking themselves? These ideas seem to go against what you’re going for however, so I’ll leave that up to you.


Mistress of Novice
Spoiler:
- I wonder if this would work better as an upgrade to the Provisional Supervisor, given how tied the Mistress special rules are to the Novice units. Possibly something similar to upgrading Lootas into Meks?
- This is a nitpick, but do you have any fluff in mind for this unit? I can kind of understand the role of a Novice in an army from their fluff. The Mistress is cool, but I’m not sure how to use her.
- I’ve noticed that the Mistress has 4 wounds and 3 attacks. These stats seem to build the unit up as a melee unit. While I can understand the need for additional wounds to keep it active (see: pyrovore), would it be better to reduce the attacks to 2?


Hope this helps! I’m a bit busier these days, but I’ll try to keep an eye out on this thread. Was secretly hoping ones of these would come up again anyway!

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/02/18 23:31:40


Faithful... Enlightened... Ambitious... Brethren... WE NEED A NEW DRIVER! THIS ONE IS DEAD!  
   
Made in us
Preacher of the Emperor






Thanks for your comments. Some of these things that puzzled you have to do with the changes to 8th Edition, but others are definitely things I need to think about changing.

Vigils:
Whoops, I left out half the Sniper Rifle rules there. (Fixed now). They allow you to target characters that aren't the closest model -- a huge deal in 8th where characters can't join units anymore, they just move around on their own, incapable of being targeted by non-Sniper weapons, and (in many cases) give powerful buffs to units within 6" that you really, really need some way to remove.
I give the Vigils the option to take Special Weapons -- storm bolters, meltaguns or flamers -- because, unstealthy as that stuff certainly is, I like the idea of them being versatile enough to sneak up on tanks and monsters as well as characters. WH40K doesn't have any rules for suppressed or low-signature weapons anyway, and even in real life, once you start scoring hits with any weapon, even a silenced pistol, people know you're there.

Novices:
You're right, the Special Weapon/Heavy Weapon rules are awkward, but the phrasing is right out of the Marine Codex for Tactical Squads... this is the way GW writes English now apparently.
Glad you liked the flavor and crunch of how these child soldiers inspire courage and protectiveness in regular Sisters. I hadn't thought about how different that is from how Marines treat their Scouts, but of course, setting gender differences aside, Scouts are fully grown superhumans, just inexperienced and lightly armored; these Novices are literally teenage girls.
Yes, you could take them as your sole Troops option -- frankly the Sisters desperately need a second Troops option! Presumably that'd represent an emergency mobilization of Novices led by a handful of experienced HQs and maybe some grown-up Sisters in the Elites, Fast Attack, or Heavy Support echelons. The reason why you might not want to do this is that Novices are Toughness 3, Wound 1 models -- like regular Sisters -- that only have Save:4+ -- worse than Sisters. They have a Stormtrooper ("Tempestus Scion") statline without the rapid deployment option; they have Sisters rules like Shield of Faith but don't have the same access to Miracle Dice (via Simulacrum and Cherub) that regular Sisters do.
So both fluff-wise and tactically, these girls really want to be camping in cover somewhere, preferably to the rear where they can bubbblewrap Exorcists or guard objectives while someone in actual 3+ power armor advances towards the enemy.

Mistress of Novices:
You're right, she needs some fluff.
Her rules reflect the way characters work now, as independent one-model units with 6" buffing auras and the ability to rush into a melee to help friendly units ("Heroic Intervention"); pretty much all characters got big statline boosts in 8th as well. Her stats and role are actually modeled on how the Mistress of Penitents (renamed "Repentia Superior" for some reason) works with Repentia squads now.
Also, the Novices come from my fanfiction (links in signature), where the Provisional Superior of a squad is a Novice herself, whereas the adult Mistress of Novices is effectively a platoon leader mentoring multiple squads. But that's all me, not canon!

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/02/19 02:58:41


BURN IT DOWN BURN IT DOWN BABY BURN IT DOWN

 Psienesis wrote:
Well, if you check out Sister Sydney's homebrew/expansion rules, you'll find all kinds of units the Sisters could have, that fit with the theme of the Sisters (as a tabletop army) perfectly well, and are damn-near-perfectly balanced.

I’m updating that fandex now & I’m eager for feedback on new home-brew units for the Sisters: Sororitas Bikers, infiltrators & Novices, tanks, flyers, characters, superheavies, Frateris Militia, and now Confessors and Battle Conclave characters
My Novice Ginevra stories start with Bolter B-Word Privileges 
   
Made in us
Lesser Daemon of Chaos




New Orleans

The vigils probably need a points hike for the base model. The unit ignores deployment, can ignore character targeting rules, and has a cheap stratagem that will gut most infantry units. They seem like a more annoying and spammable version of the kellermorph. They aren’t as bad as eliminators but no one should take design cues from those rules

The novices seem to be an easy excuse to fill out cheap battalions for limited draw back. Why are the novices the same BS skill as the full blown sisters of battles. There’s already a good BS star for a trained shooter; BS 4+. Also is there really a need to further gut the moral phase? It’s hard enough to make it relevant without adding in a 4+ save for every model. If they must keep that rule, there needs to be a negative for the squads death. If the presence inspires the other SoN than the loss should provoke a sever moral penalty.

Iron within, Iron without 
   
Made in us
Preacher of the Emperor






Reasonable criticisms - thanks

Vigils:
I'm certainly willing to consider a price hike on the Vigils. Currently, their cost of 12 ppm is 3 points above basic Sisters, rising to 14 points ppm if they get a Sniper Rifle. A Marine Scout squad has the same deployment rules, same staline except for +1 to Strength and Toughness, and costs 11 ppm with Sniper Rifles, 13 ppm with. So you could argue it's actually overcosted relative to Marines....
As for their Stratagem, it's actually the same CP and effect as the "Blessed Bolts" stratagem in the codex, just affecting sniper rifles instead of stormbolters, which certain SOB squads can spam four of.

Novices:
I see your point that, if having Novices around boosts adult Sisters, then having Novices die should hurt them (although you could also argue it’d just make them angrier....). That would bring their cost down even more, though, which would make it even easier to build cheap detachments — and you could just get around the penalty by never fielding them with adult Sisters anyway, again pushing them towards cheap detachments and away from my intent to have them mixed in.
If you have a way to prevent Novices forming cheap detachments that isn’t just “make them cost more,” I’m all ears.
As for them having BS:3+, yeah, it is better than regular Guardsmen, but these girls are Schola Progenium graduates like Stormtroopers/Scions, so they’ve had years more marksmanship training than the Guard get, plus they were picked for their skills to begin with. I agree it’s odd they have the same BS as adult Stormtroopers, but that’s a consequence of how coarse-grained WH40K’s scale is at the low end: I’d give them a stat in between rank & file guard and Stormtroopers if there was one, but there isn’t. The Marine Scouts are a precedent here too, since other than armour save, they have the same statline as full Marines, including BS.

BURN IT DOWN BURN IT DOWN BABY BURN IT DOWN

 Psienesis wrote:
Well, if you check out Sister Sydney's homebrew/expansion rules, you'll find all kinds of units the Sisters could have, that fit with the theme of the Sisters (as a tabletop army) perfectly well, and are damn-near-perfectly balanced.

I’m updating that fandex now & I’m eager for feedback on new home-brew units for the Sisters: Sororitas Bikers, infiltrators & Novices, tanks, flyers, characters, superheavies, Frateris Militia, and now Confessors and Battle Conclave characters
My Novice Ginevra stories start with Bolter B-Word Privileges 
   
Made in us
Hurr! Ogryn Bone 'Ead!





Gainesville, VA

In your fluff it says that the Novices accompany full Sisters as pages and such. Adding a maximum of 1 Novice squad per every Sister squad, would prevent having a Novice only army.
   
Made in us
Preacher of the Emperor






True. I don’t think I want to make it impossible to do an all-Novice army, though. It’d be tactically suboptimal — unless maybe you parked them in Fortifications? — but hella fluffy.

BURN IT DOWN BURN IT DOWN BABY BURN IT DOWN

 Psienesis wrote:
Well, if you check out Sister Sydney's homebrew/expansion rules, you'll find all kinds of units the Sisters could have, that fit with the theme of the Sisters (as a tabletop army) perfectly well, and are damn-near-perfectly balanced.

I’m updating that fandex now & I’m eager for feedback on new home-brew units for the Sisters: Sororitas Bikers, infiltrators & Novices, tanks, flyers, characters, superheavies, Frateris Militia, and now Confessors and Battle Conclave characters
My Novice Ginevra stories start with Bolter B-Word Privileges 
   
Made in us
Lesser Daemon of Chaos




New Orleans

Most of the game is over costed compared to marines at this point. I would argue against using that codex as an example for balance. The Vigils basically offer a large utility to the SoB and should be priced for what they enable the army to do now. Correct me if I’m wrong, but Sisters are designed to be an army that really excels in the mid range fight. This unit compensates for that and should be cost more.

I do realize that the stratagem is worded the same as the one given to storm bolters but if you get a chance to use those storm bolters against a character it is a result from your good play and not because the guns ignore one of the main tenants of the game. There is a counterplay against the storm bolters.

The novices are child soldiers. You don’t think BS 4+ would be good to demonstrate their unfamiliarity in actual combat. There wouldn’t be some difference between the school house ranges and live combat? If giving child soldiers lesser abilities than veteran soldiers is too much though perhaps limiting their armory would be an acceptable alternative? Give them auto rifles instead of bolters and only giving access to flamer weapons.

As for the negative rule it doesn’t have to be crazy. I would suggest that friendly <ADEPTUS MINUSTORUM> units within 6” must target the unit that destroyed the novice during your next turn until that unit is destroyed. You wouldn’t need to drop the costs for the unit. They’d already be taken because cheap troops choices are always valuable in 8th edition.

Iron within, Iron without 
   
Made in us
Monstrous Master Moulder






 evil_kiwi_60 wrote:
.
As for the negative rule it doesn’t have to be crazy. I would suggest that friendly <ADEPTUS MINUSTORUM> units within 6” must target the unit that destroyed the novice during your next turn until that unit is destroyed. You wouldn’t need to drop the costs for the unit. They’d already be taken because cheap troops choices are always valuable in 8th edition.


That’s an interesting idea. It would provide a drawback for Novices, but it wouldn’t table the army either if it goes wrong. It works with the Under Admiring Eyes rule too, providing a possible risk in return for its buffs. If you went for an army that was mainly Novices you might miss out on the buff benefits, but you also wouldn’t have to worry about the drawback.

Faithful... Enlightened... Ambitious... Brethren... WE NEED A NEW DRIVER! THIS ONE IS DEAD!  
   
Made in us
Preacher of the Emperor






It’s a really interesting and fluffy idea. I know GW has moved away from “this unit must attack” rules — witness how Repentia have changed — which is probably because they’re complex to write and even more complex to arbitrate in competitive games. But homebrew only works when both players are pretty chill and flexible to begin with.

How about, as a rough first try:

“If this unit’s last model is killed, any < Adepta Sororitas> unit within 6” of where that model was must attack the enemy that killed it: If the enemy unit is within 12” of the <Adepta Sororitas> unit, it must attempt a charge; if not, it must fire all its weapons with adequate range...“

Yikes, I see how tricky this gets — the above doesn’t even account for how the Novices will probably die at the end of the Shooting or Close Combat phase and the other Sororitas units won’t get to respond until the next turn, at which point everyone may have moved....

Any ideas how to make this rule simple and robust? If not, I might just have the Novices being wiped out trigger morale checks .

BURN IT DOWN BURN IT DOWN BABY BURN IT DOWN

 Psienesis wrote:
Well, if you check out Sister Sydney's homebrew/expansion rules, you'll find all kinds of units the Sisters could have, that fit with the theme of the Sisters (as a tabletop army) perfectly well, and are damn-near-perfectly balanced.

I’m updating that fandex now & I’m eager for feedback on new home-brew units for the Sisters: Sororitas Bikers, infiltrators & Novices, tanks, flyers, characters, superheavies, Frateris Militia, and now Confessors and Battle Conclave characters
My Novice Ginevra stories start with Bolter B-Word Privileges 
   
Made in us
Lesser Daemon of Chaos




New Orleans

I don’t think the moral check would help since its only tested on a D6 under the current rules. LD6+ units can’t fail the check anyways and it would be too much if it just made the unit lose D6 models.

Perhaps roll 2D6 against the ADEPTUS MINISTORUM units leadership. If the result is greater than the leadership value, the ADEPTUS MINISTORUM unit can only chose the enemy unit that destroyed the novice squad as target during the next shooting and assault phase. If the unit that destroyed the novices is not visible than this rule has no effect.

No sense in not letting sisters shoot because of IDF rules.

Alternatively failing the check could force you to only target the closest enemy unit instead.

Iron within, Iron without 
   
Made in us
Preacher of the Emperor






For Novices: Perhaps a -1 to Leadership for all Sisters units in 6" of the slaughtered Novices, for the rest of the game? That's fluffy, relatively simple to implement, and can make an actual difference.

For Vigils: I've relooked the stats for sniper rifles and it seems pretty reasonable to have them for one unit in your Codex (and it's an Elite, unlike Marine Scouts, which are troops). I might be tempted to say only 4 Vigils can take Sniper Rifles, except that every Marine Scout and every Guard Ratling in those squads get to take one. So I'm content with this unit.

BURN IT DOWN BURN IT DOWN BABY BURN IT DOWN

 Psienesis wrote:
Well, if you check out Sister Sydney's homebrew/expansion rules, you'll find all kinds of units the Sisters could have, that fit with the theme of the Sisters (as a tabletop army) perfectly well, and are damn-near-perfectly balanced.

I’m updating that fandex now & I’m eager for feedback on new home-brew units for the Sisters: Sororitas Bikers, infiltrators & Novices, tanks, flyers, characters, superheavies, Frateris Militia, and now Confessors and Battle Conclave characters
My Novice Ginevra stories start with Bolter B-Word Privileges 
   
Made in us
Hurr! Ogryn Bone 'Ead!





Gainesville, VA

Or when a Novice unit is wiped out in the shooting or combat phase, any Sisters or other Novice units within 6" must roll 2D6 and pick the highest if they have to roll for morale in the subsequent morale phase.

So the Novices aid with morale while they are there, but having them destroyed can hurt your line quite a bit. And having only Novices is going to hurt more with their slightly lower Ld anyway. Also potentially likely to cause you to burn through Miracle Dice to save models.
   
Made in us
Preacher of the Emperor






Good ideas. I'm trying to figure out the right balance between fluffy and easy to play. The easy way is probably +1 to Ld in 6" when the Novices are alive, -1 to Ld in 6" the turn they die....


Automatically Appended Next Post:
PS: And to your comment about Novices and Miracle Dice, note they can’t take a cherub or simulacrum, so they aren’t able to generate their own to save themselves (unless they do something heroic).

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/02/21 04:34:04


BURN IT DOWN BURN IT DOWN BABY BURN IT DOWN

 Psienesis wrote:
Well, if you check out Sister Sydney's homebrew/expansion rules, you'll find all kinds of units the Sisters could have, that fit with the theme of the Sisters (as a tabletop army) perfectly well, and are damn-near-perfectly balanced.

I’m updating that fandex now & I’m eager for feedback on new home-brew units for the Sisters: Sororitas Bikers, infiltrators & Novices, tanks, flyers, characters, superheavies, Frateris Militia, and now Confessors and Battle Conclave characters
My Novice Ginevra stories start with Bolter B-Word Privileges 
   
Made in us
Consigned to the Grim Darkness





USA

Well, you did ask me to, so...
 SisterSydney wrote:
Elites: VIGIL SQUAD

Hmm. I do like the lore for them, a very good idea for a stealth unit and the name fits quite well. Rules-wise, they seem okay, just a bit expensive. I'm comparing them to the Celestian squad whom has WS3+, two attacks, rerolled to-hit rolls, and bodyguard for 10 points compared to the battle sister squad's 9. This one has... camo cloaks and infiltrate for 12. People might struggle to justify taking it, particularly for a very valuable elite slot. Maybe move it to fast attack? It has less competition there-- only dominions and seraphim.

 SisterSydney wrote:
Troops: NOVICE SQUAD

I'm ambivalent on novices, but I am curious about the provisional superior. Are they meant to be a Celestian with that WS3+?

 SisterSydney wrote:
Elites: Mistress of Novices

Definitely necessary given the inclusion of the novices (needs adult supervision), but unlike the Mistress of Repentia, doesn't have any cool wargear gimmicks. An interesting concept, but I'm unsure yet if it's cool enough to take, with WS4+ making its protective ability less potent.

The people in the past who convinced themselves to do unspeakable things were no less human than you or I. They made their decisions; the only thing that prevents history from repeating itself is making different ones.
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[1] Thanks, Melissia. I'll ponder extra coolness for the Mistress of Novices -- suggestions are welcome -- and the point cost of the Vigils... another commenter suggested they were too cheap....
As for the Novice Superior, honestly the WS:3+ is an oversight -- comes of using the Stormtroopers/Tempestus Scions as a template. That said, what could I do to make them and their Mistress cooler?

[2] While we're obviously not finished here, I couldn't help myself starting a new thread with a new unit -- I'd love everyone's critique over there as well:

Sororitas Bikers!

BURN IT DOWN BURN IT DOWN BABY BURN IT DOWN

 Psienesis wrote:
Well, if you check out Sister Sydney's homebrew/expansion rules, you'll find all kinds of units the Sisters could have, that fit with the theme of the Sisters (as a tabletop army) perfectly well, and are damn-near-perfectly balanced.

I’m updating that fandex now & I’m eager for feedback on new home-brew units for the Sisters: Sororitas Bikers, infiltrators & Novices, tanks, flyers, characters, superheavies, Frateris Militia, and now Confessors and Battle Conclave characters
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Had a helpful PM exchange with Jancoran which they okay'd me posting here for all to ponder -- some good arguments about Vigils' stratagem being a copy-and-paste of Blessed Bolts being not particularly sniper-y or interesting, and about the morale effects of Novices being OP:

Jancoran wrote:The strat look like the stormbolter one. Too much like it. I think +1 to wound(so they are causing mortals on a 5+) would be cooler? Maybe -1 ap, ignores cover and +1 wound?



SisterSydney wrote:[1] The stratagem is indeed exactly the same as the stormbolter one. It makes sense to do something more sniper-y. I'll mention your idea in the thread.....Is it okay if I say it was your idea?


[2] There's a bunch of discussion in the thread about whether the Novice's morale-boosting ability is too powerful/spammable and whether there should be a compensating drawback for the adult Sisters when the Novices day -- I'd love your take on that...




Jancoran wrote:Sure, tell them I said so.
Yeah, i think morale is already good enough. I'd drop that element of it. One thing to consider is: how many more rolls do we really want in our games,, right? Fun factor suffers if we add more. However you could do something old school with morale. Perhaps think of a "falling back" option somehow. In older versions of the rules, a unit didnt lose soldiers, they just fell back at the end of the phase.


That makes me lean towards the idea of the Novices providing a +1 Ld bubble when alive and forcing morale checks when wiped out -- or, if the Sisters unit in question was already taking a morale check, roll twice and take the highest.

As for more sniper-y stratagems for Vigils, perhaps they could inflict multiple wounds per hit on characters & monsters?

BURN IT DOWN BURN IT DOWN BABY BURN IT DOWN

 Psienesis wrote:
Well, if you check out Sister Sydney's homebrew/expansion rules, you'll find all kinds of units the Sisters could have, that fit with the theme of the Sisters (as a tabletop army) perfectly well, and are damn-near-perfectly balanced.

I’m updating that fandex now & I’m eager for feedback on new home-brew units for the Sisters: Sororitas Bikers, infiltrators & Novices, tanks, flyers, characters, superheavies, Frateris Militia, and now Confessors and Battle Conclave characters
My Novice Ginevra stories start with Bolter B-Word Privileges 
   
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Tacoma, WA, USA

I have to say that overall I am not pleased with these units. They don’t feel like Sisters of Battle, they feel like you are trying to Space Marine Sisters of Battle. But let’s get specific and provide actual feedback.

Vigil Squad: Looks like Sisters of Battle Eliminators. But this is not the way of war for the Sisters of Battle. Read the introductory description of how the SOB wage war in the Codex. They don’t hide behind Camo-cloaks shooting Sniper Rifles. They bear down on their foes with the Holy Trinity (and the odd Combi-Plasma or Plasma Pistol) bringing the holy judgement of the Emperor to their foe.

If there is going to be a squad with the duty of bring down specific targets, it needs to be in that vein. At the bare minimum, they should be armed with some sort of Bolt-Sniper Rifle (Stalker Pattern Bolt Rifle?) and be more akin to Retributors than Dominions. Heck, why not just give Retributors the option for a Judgement Bolter (Range 36" S:4 AP:-1 D:1, Abilities: A model firing a Judgement Bolter can target an enemy Character even if they are not the closest enemy unit. If you roll a wound roll of 6+ for this weapon, it inflicts a mortal wound in addition to its normal damage) and call it a day?

Novice Squad: Looks like Sister of Battle Scouts, without the ability to scout. Who oddly make others Sisters braver?

First off, I think you’ve gotten your background wrong. I don’t see anything saying people graduating from the Schola Progenium at 12, rather that is the maximum age for joining it. Nor anything about Novices running about before graduating from their training at the central monasteries and receiving their holy wargear (Power Armor, Boltgun and Bolt Pistol).

But that aside, I don’t see why the presence of a bunch of novices on the field would either help or hurt the morale of a Sister of Battle. Years upon years of training first at the Schola Progenium and then with the Adapta Sororitas would make their presence inconsequential to them when compared to that of the angelic host (Seraphim and Zepharim), Cannoness, or actual Living Saints.

If there is going to be a Novice Squad, I would expect it to not have Power Armor nor the Holy Trinity (especially Special and Heavy weapons that are advanced training items for Dominions and Retributors per the Codex). I would say either Lasguns/Pistol or Autoguns/Pistols (training weapons for those not yet worthy of a Holy Bolter). I would also contemplate removing some of the normal Sisters of Battle rules from them since they aren’t fully trained.

Mistress of Novices: Nothing inspiring or interesting about this character. It just seems to exist to give the Novices a better leadership, which is hardly worth spending points on. If it's going to be there, it needs to be interesting.
   
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Creativity is always to be encouraged, yeah? I applaud the responders for participating in the mental exercize. True fans of the Sistrs of Battle have their imaginations fired up by the aesthetic. Goood on you guys!

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/02/22 23:34:46


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To be fair, I think Vigil Squads are pretty much fine, but I'm just comparing them to other elite slot units.

If they were Fast Attack units they'd be fine I think.

The people in the past who convinced themselves to do unspeakable things were no less human than you or I. They made their decisions; the only thing that prevents history from repeating itself is making different ones.
-- Adam Serwer
My blog
 
   
Made in us
Preacher of the Emperor




Tacoma, WA, USA

 Jancoran wrote:
Creativity is always to be encouraged, yeah? I applaud the responders for participating in the mental exercize. True fans of the Sistrs of Battle have their imaginations fired up by the aesthetic. Goood on you guys!
Creativity is good. Derivativeness is not.

So to help, I'll add a bit to my thoughts on the Novice Squad and the Mistress of Novices.

If Novices are Sisters who have not completed their training, they need the Mistress of Novices to be at their best. Remove Under Admiring Eyes, Acts of Faith, and Sacred Rites from the unit. Instead, replace the the Mistress of Novices Suffer the Children with something like:

Rites Master: Any <Order> Novice Squad within 6" of any <order> Mistress of Novices gains the Acts of Faith and Sacred Rites abilities and may utilize her Leadership in place of their own.

I'd also rename Mother Bear with something a bit more thematic like Appointed Charges, restrict to <Order> Novices and allow them to move closer to any model in the offending unit, not a model. So more like:

Appointed Charges: This model can perform a Heroic Intervention if an <Order> Novice Squad within 6" has any any enemy models within 1" of it. When doing so, it may move up to 6" instead of 3" and may end up closer to any model in a unit that is within 1" of an <Order> Novice Squad that is within 6" of this model.
   
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Some tough and helpful critique from Alex Troy -- many thanks. Before getting to specific rules suggestions: I'd agree we don't want Sisters to seem like Lite Marines ("now only S:3 T:3!"), and particularly I think Primaris units like the Eliminators are ludicrously over the top in their profusion of high-powered options (three modes on their standard weapon, including indirect fire??). I'd disagree on how the Sisters go to war: I'm firmly in camp of "Codex fluff is Imperial propaganda" and believe the Sisters are both more flawed and more pragmatic in "real life" (see my fanfics about Novices, starting with Bolter B-Word Privilieges).


alextroy wrote:why not just give Retributors the option for a Judgement Bolter (Range 36" S:4 AP:-1 D:1, Abilities: A model firing a Judgement Bolter can target an enemy Character even if they are not the closest enemy unit. If you roll a wound roll of 6+ for this weapon, it inflicts a mortal wound in addition to its normal damage) and call it a day?


I actually like this idea a lot -- both the weapon (it's the best "sniper boltgun" rules I've seen, Eliminators' weapons are nuts) and the idea of letting Retributors have it as an option. How many points are Judgment Bolters? I can't find them in the current Marine codex.

All that said, I still want Sororitas infiltrators -- the idea of spooky stealth nuns who never speak is inherently cool, as are the tactical possibilities, and I'm confident at least some Orders would be pragmatic enough to use stealth where tactically advantageous to destroy the enemies of the God-Emperor.


alextroy wrote:Novice Squad: Looks like Sister of Battle Scouts, without the ability to scout. Who oddly make others Sisters braver?

[snipped]

I don’t see why the presence of a bunch of novices on the field would either help or hurt the morale of a Sister of Battle. Years upon years of training first at the Schola Progenium and then with the Adapta Sororitas would make their presence inconsequential to them when compared to that of the angelic host (Seraphim and Zepharim), Cannoness, or actual Living Saints.

If there is going to be a Novice Squad, I would expect it to not have Power Armor nor the Holy Trinity (especially Special and Heavy weapons that are advanced training items for Dominions and Retributors per the Codex). I would say either Lasguns/Pistol or Autoguns/Pistols (training weapons for those not yet worthy of a Holy Bolter). I would also contemplate removing some of the normal Sisters of Battle rules from them since they aren’t fully trained.

Mistress of Novices: Nothing inspiring or interesting about this character. It just seems to exist to give the Novices a better leadership, which is hardly worth spending points on. If it's going to be there, it needs to be interesting.


alextroy wrote:So to help, I'll add a bit to my thoughts on the Novice Squad and the Mistress of Novices.

If Novices are Sisters who have not completed their training, they need the Mistress of Novices to be at their best. Remove Under Admiring Eyes, Acts of Faith, and Sacred Rites from the unit. Instead, replace the the Mistress of Novices Suffer the Children with something like:

Rites Master: Any <Order> Novice Squad within 6" of any <order> Mistress of Novices gains the Acts of Faith and Sacred Rites abilities and may utilize her Leadership in place of their own.

I'd also rename Mother Bear with something a bit more thematic like Appointed Charges, restrict to <Order> Novices and allow them to move closer to any model in the offending unit, not a model. So more like:

Appointed Charges: This model can perform a Heroic Intervention if an <Order> Novice Squad within 6" has any any enemy models within 1" of it. When doing so, it may move up to 6" instead of 3" and may end up closer to any model in a unit that is within 1" of an <Order> Novice Squad that is within 6" of this model.


And a note from Melissia on the Mistress:

 Melissia wrote:
Mistress of Novices .... Definitely necessary given the inclusion of the novices (needs adult supervision), but unlike the Mistress of Repentia, doesn't have any cool wargear gimmicks. An interesting concept, but I'm unsure yet if it's cool enough to take, with WS4+ making its protective ability less potent.


Some really good ideas here.

[1] I like the idea that Novices don't get Sacred Rites or Order Convictions unless the Mistress is within 6". (I think they deserve Acts of Faith & Shield of Faith, though). That said, they should be like Ministorum priests, they shouldn't take away Rites or Convictions from the rest of the Detachment/Army.

[2] To make the Mistress better at protecting her charges, yes, she should have WS:3+ (like the Repentia Superior she's based on), and maybe she gets Zealot when she does a Heroic Intervention on their behalf, or when within 6" of them?

[3] I still want to depict somehow that regular Sisters feel protective of the Novices, without making Novices such a big boost to nearby Sisters that you're encouraged to throw them into close combat (or, for that matter, to Martyr them). Morale boosts within 6" is supposed to represent the adult Sisters not wanting to let their "little sisters" down, so they stand and fight to protect them when they otherwise might run and leave them vulnerable. But we could also give nearby adult Sisters the ability to fire Overwatch at anyone charging the Novices (like Tau), or maybe let an entire squad of adult Sisters do a Heroic Intervention if the Novices are charged...

What suggestions do folks have?

BURN IT DOWN BURN IT DOWN BABY BURN IT DOWN

 Psienesis wrote:
Well, if you check out Sister Sydney's homebrew/expansion rules, you'll find all kinds of units the Sisters could have, that fit with the theme of the Sisters (as a tabletop army) perfectly well, and are damn-near-perfectly balanced.

I’m updating that fandex now & I’m eager for feedback on new home-brew units for the Sisters: Sororitas Bikers, infiltrators & Novices, tanks, flyers, characters, superheavies, Frateris Militia, and now Confessors and Battle Conclave characters
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New Orleans

The multi unit overwatch would only encourage the use of Novices as frontline bubble wrap. In the face of any melee unit, the best tactic would be to push the novices forward to draw extra overwatch and to breakup the charge using a less useful unit.

The heroic intervention rule isn’t bad

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 SisterSydney wrote:
alextroy wrote:why not just give Retributors the option for a Judgement Bolter (Range 36" S:4 AP:-1 D:1, Abilities: A model firing a Judgement Bolter can target an enemy Character even if they are not the closest enemy unit. If you roll a wound roll of 6+ for this weapon, it inflicts a mortal wound in addition to its normal damage) and call it a day?


I actually like this idea a lot -- both the weapon (it's the best "sniper boltgun" rules I've seen, Eliminators' weapons are nuts) and the idea of letting Retributors have it as an option. How many points are Judgment Bolters? I can't find them in the current Marine codex.
That's because I made it up on the spot. Let's look at Seargent Telion's sniper bolter. If Battlescribe is correct, his Relic sniper bolter Quietus is:

Heavy 2 36" S 4 AP -2 D2 Abilities: When Seargent Telion first this weapon he may target an enemy Character even if it is not the closest enemy unit. When resolving an attack roll with the weapon a wound roll of 6+ inflicts a mortal wound in addition to its normal damage.

That might be a bit much as a non-unique weapon, but Heavy 1 and we are cooking. No point value available since it is a Relic, but I'd say 3 or 4 a model since then it would be 1 part Stalker Bolt Rife and 1 part Sniper Rifle.

All that said, I still want Sororitas infiltrators -- the idea of spooky stealth nuns who never speak is inherently cool, as are the tactical possibilities, and I'm confident at least some Orders would be pragmatic enough to use stealth where tactically advantageous to destroy the enemies of the God-Emperor.
Fair enough. I just don't see that as a SOB thing. To each their own.

Some really good ideas here.

[1] I like the idea that Novices don't get Sacred Rites or Order Convictions unless the Mistress is within 6". (I think they deserve Acts of Faith & Shield of Faith, though). That said, they should be like Ministorum priests, they shouldn't take away Rites or Convictions from the rest of the Detachment/Army.
There is no issue with any of the rules applying to other models if the Novices don't have them. They are still <Order>, Adepta Sororitas and Adeptus Minsitrorum units so no impact on any other rules. I think it is a bit cleaner to leave Order Convictions on them since that avoids adding a special rule to prevent them from using it, but taking away any two of Acts of Faith, Order Convictions, Sacred Rites, and Shield of Faith and giving them back via the Mistress sounds good. Which rules would them lacking make the Mistress most attractive to take?

[2] To make the Mistress better at protecting her charges, yes, she should have WS:3+ (like the Repentia Superior she's based on), and maybe she gets Zealot when she does a Heroic Intervention on their behalf, or when within 6" of them?
I'd totally steal the entire stat block of the Repentia Superior for this character. It makes total sense that you need that same drive when it comes to your charges whether they are aspirants or repentia.

[3] I still want to depict somehow that regular Sisters feel protective of the Novices, without making Novices such a big boost to nearby Sisters that you're encouraged to throw them into close combat (or, for that matter, to Martyr them). Morale boosts within 6" is supposed to represent the adult Sisters not wanting to let their "little sisters" down, so they stand and fight to protect them when they otherwise might run and leave them vulnerable. But we could also give nearby adult Sisters the ability to fire Overwatch at anyone charging the Novices (like Tau), or maybe let an entire squad of adult Sisters do a Heroic Intervention if the Novices are charged...
How about as a Stratagem? I don't like the idea of the unit giving other units a bonus, but a Stratagem that plays on the background makes sense and is more limited in utility.
   
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Ok, I think I'm basically going to go with all of Alex's recommendations at this point -- will write that up as soon as I can, though given the fact that I'm having to work this weekend may not be today.

And good call by Evil Kiwi on not making special abilities that encourage players to use Novices as sacrificial bubble-wrap -- that's what Frateris Militia are for! Watch for a thread on those in a couple units weeks at my current pace...


Automatically Appended Next Post:
PS: I like the idea of adding Alex's homebrewed sniper-boltgun as an option for the Retributors, as well as for my homebrew infiltrators. But would it be too much to just add it to the Heavy Weapons list, so even a basic Battle Sister Squad could take one as a kind of "squad designated markswoman" thing?

The Marines can of course take whole squads of sniper rifles as a Troops choice, but as has been frequently pointed out here, saying "hey, the Astartes get this" is not a convincing argument against something being ridiculously overpowered.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/02/23 20:38:47


BURN IT DOWN BURN IT DOWN BABY BURN IT DOWN

 Psienesis wrote:
Well, if you check out Sister Sydney's homebrew/expansion rules, you'll find all kinds of units the Sisters could have, that fit with the theme of the Sisters (as a tabletop army) perfectly well, and are damn-near-perfectly balanced.

I’m updating that fandex now & I’m eager for feedback on new home-brew units for the Sisters: Sororitas Bikers, infiltrators & Novices, tanks, flyers, characters, superheavies, Frateris Militia, and now Confessors and Battle Conclave characters
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I’ve incorporated the many, many good suggestions made in this thread and incorporated them in the revised write up below – and added some additional loveliness, like giving the Mistress of Novices the Commissar’s ability to shoot her charges in the head until morale improves… What do folks think of this version?

Changes/additions are in italics (and sometimes also hidden in spoilers to prevent Wall of Text).

***

Elites: VIGIL SQUAD
(5-10 models per unit, 12 points per model)
Spoiler:

Vigil M:6” WS:4+ BS:3+ S:3 T:3 W:1 A:1 Ld:7 Sv:3+
Vigil Superior M:6” WS:4+ BS:3+ S:3 T:3 W:1 A:2 Ld:8 Sv:3+

This unit contains 1 Vigil Superior and 4 Vigils. It can additionally contain up to 5 Vigils. Every model is equipped with: bolt pistol; boltgun; frag grenades; krak grenades; camo cloaks.

Camo Cloaks:
If every model in this unit has a camo cloak, then when resolving an attack made with a ranged weapon against a model in this unit whilst it is receiving the benefit of cover, add 2 to the saving throw instead of 1.

Wargear Options:
Up to 4 Vigils can be equipped with 1 weapon from the Special Weapons list instead of 1 boltgun.
The Vigil Superior can additionally be equipped with 1 weapon from the Melee Weapons list, or can be equipped with 1 weapon from the Melee Weapons list instead of 1 boltgun.
The Vigil Superior can be equipped with 1 weapon from the Ranged Weapons list instead of 1 boltgun.
The Vigil Superior can be equipped with 1 weapon from the Pistols list instead of 1 bolt pistol.
Any Vigil, including the Superior, can be equipped with 1 Excommunicator Boltgun instead of 1 boltgun.

Excommunicator Boltgun : Range 36" S:4 AP:-1 D:1
Abilities: A model firing an Excommunicator Boltgun can target an enemy Character even if they are not the closest enemy unit. If you roll a wound roll of 6+ for this weapon, it inflicts a Mortal Wound in addition to its normal damage.
Point Value: 3


Abilities:
Acts of Faith
Sacred Rites
Shield of Faith

Concealed Positions:
When you set up this unit during deployment, it can be set up anywhere on the battlefield that is more than 9” away from the enemy deployment zone and any enemy models.

Faction Keywords:
Imperium, Adeptus Ministorum, Adepta Sororitas, ORDER

Keywords:
Infantry, Vigil Squad


Stratagem: Infallible Aim (1 CP)
Use this Stratagem with a Vigil Squad is chosen to shoot with. Until the end of that phase, for each unsaved Wound that unit inflicts using Excommunication Boltguns, it inflicts an additional Mortal Wound.


Fluff
Spoiler:

Only the most cool-headed and cold-blooded Sisters are chosen for the Vigils, a elite which originated in the notoriously rational Order of the Sacred Rose. While Repentia unnerve many regular Sisters with their screaming fury, Vigils are considered uncanny for their icy calm and their near-total silence. Only the Superiors speak at all, and that sparingly. The regular Vigils follow the strictest vows of silence, coordinating their actions only by a few sparse hand gestures and an eerie, wordless intuition that needs no outward sign at all. Shrouded in sacred camouflage cloaks, their power armour anointed with blessed lubricants to move without a sound, their optics illumined to piece the darkness of the night, Vigils infiltrate into key positions and then wait for hours, days, or weeks to observe the enemy and -- if so ordered -- strike.


Design Notes:
Spoiler:

Start with Dominions (10ppm).
Add camo cloaks (+1 ppm?)
Upgrade Vanguard to Concealed Positions (+1 ppm?)
Total: 12 ppm

Instead of Sniper Rifles they have their unique weapon, statted out by Alex Troy, and their Stratagem is now more sniper-oriented, giving them additional Mortal Wounds.
They’ve also lost the ability to take Simulacrum and Cherub, which seem awfully unstealthy…




***


Troops: NOVICE SQUAD
(5-20 models per unit, 6 points per model)
Spoiler:

Novice M:6” WS:4+ BS:3+ S:3 T:3 W:1 A:1 Ld:6 Sv:4+
Provisional Superior M:6” WS:4+ BS:3+ S:3 T:3 W:1 A:2 Ld:7 Sv:4+

This unit contains 1 Provisional Superior and 4 Novice. It can additionally contain up to 15 Novices. Every model is equipped with: bolt pistol; boltgun; frag grenades; krak grenades.

Wargear Options:
For every five models in the unit, one Novice can be equipped with 1 weapon from the Special Weapons list instead of 1 boltgun.

Abilities:
Shield of Faith

Novitiate
A Novice Squad does not benefit from any Order Conviction unless the unit is within 6” of a Mistress of Novices.


Don’t You Touch Them!
After the enemy has completed all of their Charge moves, if any enemy model is within 1” of a Novice model, then any Adepta Sororitas character within 6” of such an enemy model may perform a Heroic Intervention, instead of the usual 3”. When doing so, the character can move up to 6” instead of 3”, as long as they end the move closer to an enemy model that is within 1” of a Novice model.


Faction Keywords:
Imperium, Adeptus Ministorum, Adepta Sororitas, ORDER

Keywords:
Infantry, Novice Squad


Fluff
Spoiler:

When a prospective Sister of Battle graduates from the Schola Progenium, she is sent to the Adepta Sororitas for her Novitiate. As a teenage Novice, she learns the Sisterhood's traditions, rituals, tactics, and weaponry. A strength-augmentation harness worn over her carapace armour allows the teenage girl to handle the weight of the holy bolter, letting her train from the first day of her Novitiate with the weapon she will use for the rest of her life -- however long or short it may be.
As a matter of both military doctrine and maternal instinct, the Sisterhood tries to keep its Novices safe, at least by the standards of the Imperium. Novices often accompany Battle Sisters on campaign as pages, serving their elders and observing the Sororitas way of war first-hand while being carefully graded for their skills, piety, and nerve. Novices being considered for the Orders Militant are even organized into squads and sent into combat as a form of live-fire training, albeit usually against weak targets and with extensive backup. Often they are held back of the main battle line as both a tactical and moral backstop, their very presence making their elder sisters too ashamed to waver.
Only as a desperate measure would the Sororitas throw their "Little Sisters" into pitched battle. But desperate times call for desperate measures, and in the grim darkness of a waning Imperium, times are desperate all the time….



Design Notes:
Start with Tempestus Scions (7pm).
Replace hot-shot lasgun with boltgun & bolt pistol (0 ppm?)
Replace Aerial Drop special rule with less powerful "Don’t Touch Them”
Total: 6 ppm

The “Don’t You Touch Them” Stratagem has been turned into a permanent ability, and their morale-boosting ability has been turned into their Stratagem.
Also, they can no longer take Heavy Weapons – as teenage girls without Power Armour, they can’t lift them! They still get the Holy Trinity in the form of boltguns, flamers, and meltaguns, however.


Stratagem (1 CP): Don’t Let Them Down
Use this Stratagem during the Morale Phase when any <Adeptus Ministorum> unit within 6” of a Novice model fails a morale test. Roll one D6 for each model from such a unit that flees: On 4+ that model does not flee.


***

Elites: Mistress of Novices
(1 model per unit, 35 points per model)
Spoiler:

M:6” WS:3+ BS:3+ S:3 T:3 W:4 A:3 Ld:8 Sv:3+

A Mistress of Novices is a single model equipped with boltgun; bolt pistol; krak grenades; frag grenades.

Wargear Options:
This model can additionally be equipped with 1 weapon from the Melee Weapons list, or can be equipped with 1 weapon from the Melee Weapons list instead of 1 boltgun.
This model can be equipped with 1 weapon from the Ranged Weapons list instead of 1 boltgun.
This model can be equipped with 1 weapon from the Pistols list instead of 1 bolt pistol.

Abilities:
Acts of Faith
Sacred Rites
Shield of Faith

Suffer the Children
Friendly ORDER Novice units within 6” of this model can use its Leadership characteristic instead of their own. Additionally, those units gain the Acts of Faith and Sacred Rites special rules, and they benefit from Order Convictions.
If your army is Battle-Forged, this model does not take up a slot in a Detachment that includes any ORDER Novice units.

Ursa Mater
During the Fight phase, if any friendly ORDER Novice unit within 6” of this model is also within 1” of an enemy model, this model may re-roll any attacks that miss.

Here Endeth the Lesson
The first time an ORDER Novice Squad fails a Morale test whilst it is within 6” of any friendly ORDER Mistress of Novices, you can execute a model. If you do, one Novice model of your choice in that unit is slain and the Morale test is re-rolled (do not include this slain model when re-rolling the Morale test).



Design Notes:
She now has the same statline as the Repentia Superior. Novices don’t get Acts of Faith, Order Convictions, or Sacred Rites unless she’s within 6”.
In return, she gets the equivalent of Zealot whenever the Novices are in close combat. (Her Heroic Intervention bonus is now an ability the Novices give to ANY Sororitas character within 6”).
And she gets a commissar’s ability: if they flee, she can shoot them in the head to make them stop.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2020/02/26 03:43:46


BURN IT DOWN BURN IT DOWN BABY BURN IT DOWN

 Psienesis wrote:
Well, if you check out Sister Sydney's homebrew/expansion rules, you'll find all kinds of units the Sisters could have, that fit with the theme of the Sisters (as a tabletop army) perfectly well, and are damn-near-perfectly balanced.

I’m updating that fandex now & I’m eager for feedback on new home-brew units for the Sisters: Sororitas Bikers, infiltrators & Novices, tanks, flyers, characters, superheavies, Frateris Militia, and now Confessors and Battle Conclave characters
My Novice Ginevra stories start with Bolter B-Word Privileges 
   
Made in us
Preacher of the Emperor




Tacoma, WA, USA

Vigils are fine.

Novices are lesser Sisters, so I don't like Don’t You Touch Them. I don't think a squad of Novices should be enhancing characters. It's just not the way units should operate unless that is the point of the unit (such as the Dark Apostle and Dark Disciples). This is doubly true with the being a Troops unit. You can pack in 50% more bolters (or fill in slots in a Detachment for 33% less) and get extra counter charge ability from characters via this rule.

And as I noted, special weapons are carried by Dominions (even those in Battle Sister Squads are Dominions seconded to the squad), who are promoted from Battle Sisters. Novices should not have access to them, similar to how Conscripts don't get Heavy or Special Weapons in their squads.

Also, per your design notes, these should be 7 PPM. Swapping the Hot-Shot Lasgun for Bolter and Bolt Pistol doesn't reduce the point value of the unit. "Don't Touch Them" may not be Aerial Drop, but it is a really good rule used properly.

Mistress of Novices: Yuck! Sister of Battle are not the Imperial Guard who shoot people for cowardice. Novices would either be corrected after the battle via extra training and prayers or sent to the Repentia. Also, it is totally contradictory to have two rules on the Novices to make other Sisters braver and then have the Mistress shooting them.



   
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Gainesville, VA

 alextroy wrote:

And as I noted, special weapons are carried by Dominions (even those in Battle Sister Squads are Dominions seconded to the squad), who are promoted from Battle Sisters. Novices should not have access to them, similar to how Conscripts don't get Heavy or Special Weapons in their squads.

Also, per your design notes, these should be 7 PPM. Swapping the Hot-Shot Lasgun for Bolter and Bolt Pistol doesn't reduce the point value of the unit. "Don't Touch Them" may not be Aerial Drop, but it is a really good rule used properly.

Mistress of Novices: Yuck! Sister of Battle are not the Imperial Guard who shoot people for cowardice. Novices would either be corrected after the battle via extra training and prayers or sent to the Repentia. Also, it is totally contradictory to have two rules on the Novices to make other Sisters braver and then have the Mistress shooting them.



Yeah the Mistress of Novices seems a bit wrong with shooting Novices, they may be inexperienced, but are certainly not as expendable as guardsmen. I'd also suggest moving the "Don't you touch them" ability to the Mistress of Novices, so it does not work for any character but just her (they are specifically her charges, so she's likely be the most overprotective of them, mama bear style!).

I'd probably make "Here Endeth the Lesson" (really great ability name btw!) something else. Like if the Mistress causes an enemy model to lose its last wound (i.e. kills something) then the Novice unit is buffed briefly somehow. Reroll wounds or something for this phase, maybe?
   
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Thanks for the feedback. Big takeway: That's a big "Hell No" on the experiment of a Commissar-like rule for the Mistress of Novices, so I'll scratch that. Was trying to capture the same warped mix of protectiveness and cruelty that runs through my fanfics... but yeah, it's too crude and brutal and Guard-like.

I still like the idea of Novice squads having some kind of effect on other Sisters (not just the Mistress) because of the protective feelings they inspire. I'll ponder. Suggestions?

And I am aware of the lore that the Special Weapons Sisters in regular BSS squads are Dominions... I don't actually see anything in the current Codex about Dominions having served as regular Sisters first, as opposed to simply being on a special training track, and I think that track could start as earl as the Notiviate....

Finally, I added some new ideas to the Sororitas Bikers thread, including a list of potential names — I’d love y’all’s feedback over there.

BURN IT DOWN BURN IT DOWN BABY BURN IT DOWN

 Psienesis wrote:
Well, if you check out Sister Sydney's homebrew/expansion rules, you'll find all kinds of units the Sisters could have, that fit with the theme of the Sisters (as a tabletop army) perfectly well, and are damn-near-perfectly balanced.

I’m updating that fandex now & I’m eager for feedback on new home-brew units for the Sisters: Sororitas Bikers, infiltrators & Novices, tanks, flyers, characters, superheavies, Frateris Militia, and now Confessors and Battle Conclave characters
My Novice Ginevra stories start with Bolter B-Word Privileges 
   
Made in us
Preacher of the Emperor




Tacoma, WA, USA

 SisterSydney wrote:
I still like the idea of Novice squads having some kind of effect on other Sisters (not just the Mistress) because of the protective feelings they inspire. I'll ponder. Suggestions?
I can't think of another Troops unit that has an impact on other units in the game like you have proposed. Units with such abilities tend to be Elites or Characters. Therefore, any such ability should be at best a Stratagem or tied to the Mistress. It's just the way units are designed.
   
 
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