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Made in us
Fixture of Dakka






Falls Church, VA

Yeah. Can definitely backup that Sisters matchup has changed.

Tau, what used to be a nightmare matchup for my foot girls, now can't hold the range open faster than we advance. Within 12" we have incredible firepower. Gun for gun I was outshooting Tau, and I had enough melta to deal with 3++ Riptides without too many losses.

Some people say they know no fear. What they mean is that they have encountered and conquered it. I, on the other hand, truly know no fear. It is as alien to me as doubt, rage, or mercy.

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BrianDavion wrote:
Sister's beat Iron Hands? intreasting was that a fluke or are sisters capable of dealing with the Kings of the Meta for some reason?


Yeah. They did. In the old book I lost 2 out of maybe 20-30 games vs the new Marines, the new book looks to be pretty strong vs them too. The list I played against was a nasty IH gun line. By the end of the game the only things he had left were a thunder fire and some characters.

We played one of the ITC missions. I took recon, engineers, and big game hunter. Engineers in decent/good terrain with Valorous heart is a free 4 points a game. 5 Sisters behind LOS cover that ignore ap -2 will never die unless you dedicate ap-3 or better fire power to them.

Miracle dice and terrain will do wonders.
   
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Rynner wrote:
I've played 5 with the new codex. I played twice vs Chaos, once vs Iron Hands, Necrons, and Tau. Each game was at 1500 because of a local 1 day GT around here everyone wants to practice for.

I used the weaker ruling of Miracle die too. I think its a really strong mechanic. After getting some games in I'm really happy with the book. My next concern is model availably for LVO as the stuff I want to add to my list (Zeraphim/Mortifers are not out yet) but thats a somewhat later problem,.

It's really amusing, Tau used to be a horrendous match up but now it's laughably easy.

I technically lost the Necron match up by a 2 points but that was only because I forgot they could deep strike and let them come in and kill all my engineers turn 1.

I won both Chaos match ups. Thermal knights hurt but you can put a hurt on them.

I also won the Iron Hand's game pretty big. When RepEx don't have a 5++ they die really easily.

There's defiantly some play in the book. I'm still hoping for a FAQ to allow dominions to scout in transports and their 5th storm bolter back but even if we get it I'm not sure I'll use them.


That's his fault for still using executioners like a noobcake,

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Okay quick double check I have got miracle dice right. Exorcist shoots at some tank with 12 wounds. I get 3 past saves. Yey. I can then roll 1 dice(4) for damage, 2nd damage(3) and now with 7 wounds in pool as all 3 missiles are their own attack sequence I can NOW decide to use act of faith and use 5 to autokill the vehicle?

OTOH as all 3 are separate sequences I can't use 3 miracle dice to fix all 3 damages(well not without ability to perform multiple acts of fate in same phase and don't think exorcists had that.

Incidentally this means opponents shouldn't really be fast rolling their saves either as this affects command rerolls. If they fail 3 the CP reroll for saves becomes more important for the last one if they know I can use miracle dice to one shot vehicle. Going to slow down games a bit.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2019/12/02 06:51:19


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Ottawa

That is also how I read it.
   
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One thing i like about sister stratagems is there doesn't seem to be any key one on which army hangs around. Makes facing stealer cult and dark eldar easier as they can't screw your plan easily by negating key stratagem. Sister ones aren"t as essential and often 1cp making it less of an hindrance to get negated

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Lemondish wrote:
That is also how I read it.


This is gonna need to be FAQ'd because people are debating that all over I think. I personally read it as saying you could use a Miracle Die for each one because they're all part of the same shooting attack in the same phase.
   
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Audustum wrote:
Lemondish wrote:
That is also how I read it.


This is gonna need to be FAQ'd because people are debating that all over I think. I personally read it as saying you could use a Miracle Die for each one because they're all part of the same shooting attack in the same phase.


Perhaps, but if you assume you can't because you only have one Miracle Dice available then the question still has merit. Since saves and damage are not part of fast rolling, and every attack is written in the core rules as taking place one at a time, it makes sense that you'd be in a situation where you could be free to substitute prior to making any of your damage rolls between the first and the last. The scenario mentioned actually makes sense to me and follows what we know about the core rules. We'll see what happens, but I can't see how they'd FAQ this without extending fast rolling to damage and messing up sequencing.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2019/12/02 15:47:58


 
   
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BrianDavion wrote:
Sister's beat Iron Hands? intreasting was that a fluke or are sisters capable of dealing with the Kings of the Meta for some reason?


Valorous heart basically negates the entire current meta
They don't care about ap -1/-2 anti horde firepower, saves are too good unless you are throwing ork levels of dice at them
They don't care about multi wound shots, they shouldn't give you many/any shots on anything besides exo's
They don't really care much about -'s to hit with flamers and stratagems able to negate them
They don't care a ton about super mega overkill melee units either, they can tank a lot of charges.
They don't care a ton about bubble wrapped fire bases

They /do/ care about getting their characters sniped out
They /do/ care about area of effect mortal wounds like exploding vehicles

Your typical current meta "power list" doesn't really have an answer for most of what sisters do, they can pull out wins but they will be by points, not tabling the person in two turns.
Sisters don't bring withering firepower so they won't be really "dangerous" but they present problems that people may need to consider in their lists.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2019/12/02 15:48:26


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 Grundz wrote:
BrianDavion wrote:
Sister's beat Iron Hands? intreasting was that a fluke or are sisters capable of dealing with the Kings of the Meta for some reason?


Valorous heart basically negates the entire current meta
They don't care about ap -1/-2 anti horde firepower, saves are too good unless you are throwing ork levels of dice at them
They don't care about multi wound shots, they shouldn't give you many/any shots on anything besides exo's
They don't really care much about -'s to hit with flamers and stratagems able to negate them
They don't care a ton about super mega overkill melee units either, they can tank a lot of charges.
They don't care a ton about bubble wrapped fire bases

They /do/ care about getting their characters sniped out
They /do/ care about area of effect mortal wounds like exploding vehicles

Your typical current meta "power list" doesn't really have an answer for most of what sisters do, they can pull out wins but they will be by points, not tabling the person in two turns.
Sisters don't bring withering firepower so they won't be really "dangerous" but they present problems that people may need to consider in their lists.


That makes them a good fit for the new Maelstrom rules in CA19, I think.
   
Made in us
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Falls Church, VA

Ironically, my experience has been the opposite, playing Argent Shroud.

I can outshoot Tau by closing to rapid fire with ridiculous speed - their damage output is insane.

But they definitely aren't as durable as VH.

Some people say they know no fear. What they mean is that they have encountered and conquered it. I, on the other hand, truly know no fear. It is as alien to me as doubt, rage, or mercy.

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tneva82 wrote:
Okay quick double check I have got miracle dice right. Exorcist shoots at some tank with 12 wounds. I get 3 past saves. Yey. I can then roll 1 dice(4) for damage, 2nd damage(3) and now with 7 wounds in pool as all 3 missiles are their own attack sequence I can NOW decide to use act of faith and use 5 to autokill the vehicle?

OTOH as all 3 are separate sequences I can't use 3 miracle dice to fix all 3 damages(well not without ability to perform multiple acts of fate in same phase and don't think exorcists had that.

Incidentally this means opponents shouldn't really be fast rolling their saves either as this affects command rerolls. If they fail 3 the CP reroll for saves becomes more important for the last one if they know I can use miracle dice to one shot vehicle. Going to slow down games a bit.


No one actually knows yet. I don't think GW really considered what they were getting into when they copy pasted the rule over from Sigmar. This is going to be one of the most meaningful FAQs we've seen for a book this edition. Right up there with the emergency Ironhands nerf.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2019/12/02 16:22:37


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 Unit1126PLL wrote:
Ironically, my experience has been the opposite, playing Argent Shroud.

I can outshoot Tau by closing to rapid fire with ridiculous speed - their damage output is insane.

But they definitely aren't as durable as VH.


Argent shroud is another option, if you are able to change your order/warlord/relics before the game in your format, they are a great alternate.

I Just feel like iron hands and other easy access ap-2 dice storms make valorous heart a requirement

Ive been playing with my list but I really want to run a ton of cherubs and banners, and I know its a waste until I figure out optimal usages.

How many Mdice have you guys come out with in your games? I feel like if you are paying attention to all the requirements you should have a ton of them

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/12/02 16:26:18


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Miracle dice are a strange mechanic. I almost never have enough for the first turn or so but by turn 3-4 I have more than I'll spend.
   
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 Grundz wrote:


Argent shroud is another option, if you are able to change your order/warlord/relics before the game in your format, they are a great alternate.


Changing relics etc is norm here but where you can change chapter etc pregame?

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St. Louis, Missouri USA

ERJAK wrote:
Zephyrim are a lot better than I gave them credit for. They're still hamstrung by being basically bloody rose only and having issues with overwatch, but they hit incredibly hard and can charge from outside of overwatch range with 0 difficulty. You afraid of Assault centurions? Not with these girls you're not.
Not sure what you mean. Even though they can charge 13", they can't declare a charge from outside 12". Unless you mean from outside 8" flamer range. If not, then no matter what they have to be inside overwatch range in order to declare a charge.

 
   
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Audustum wrote:
Lemondish wrote:
That is also how I read it.


This is gonna need to be FAQ'd because people are debating that all over I think. I personally read it as saying you could use a Miracle Die for each one because they're all part of the same shooting attack in the same phase.


But it\s done for one dice roll. As in 1 roll of X dices, not X rolls of 1 dice. And attacks are as per rulebook one at a time. Fast dice rolling is just convenience when it doesn't affect things.

Swapping all rolls from 3d3 of exorcist fine. Swapping all rolls from multiple attackers no.

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tneva82 wrote:

Swapping all rolls from 3d3 of exorcist fine. Swapping all rolls from multiple attackers no.


each shot from the exorcist is its own hit , wound and damage roll

You can't just replace whatever you want, you can pick one dice, and replace it

the only time you can replace multiple dice is if the individual roll is multiple dice, for example 2d6 damage or a charge roll, not if the model is shooting multiple shots

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Yes. Exorcist fires 3d3 shots. Replacing 1 or 3 of those 3d3 is legal. However rolling damage from multiple different shots like 4 meltas from dominion squad isn't

(btw would only 1, 2 and 3 be useful for d3 roll?)

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/12/02 18:14:53


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tneva82 wrote:
Yes. Exorcist fires 3d3 shots. Replacing 1 or 3 of those 3d3 is legal. However rolling damage from multiple different shots like 4 meltas from dominion squad isn't

(btw would only 1, 2 and 3 be useful for d3 roll?)


replacing none of those is legal because number of shots is not listed under a legal roll to replace for miracle dice (?)

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Since Repressors are in the chapter approved and not getting the legends treatment, I had this idea. 1 repressor, 2x 5 rets, 3x MM, 2x Cherub. If argent shroud you could move 13-18" and shoot 10x MM out of the repressor. The cherubs grant 1 model to fire twice, the fire points grant 6 models. So 2 models shoot normally, and 4 models shoot twice. Granted it's at -1 unless you skip advance, or unless the new Rets ignore that? or is that only on the flamers? It's then 6x MM the remaining turns.

Just an idea...

 
   
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Falls Church, VA

 deviantduck wrote:
Since Repressors are in the chapter approved and not getting the legends treatment, I had this idea. 1 repressor, 2x 5 rets, 3x MM, 2x Cherub. If argent shroud you could move 13-18" and shoot 10x MM out of the repressor. The cherubs grant 1 model to fire twice, the fire points grant 6 models. So 2 models shoot normally, and 4 models shoot twice. Granted it's at -1 unless you skip advance, or unless the new Rets ignore that? or is that only on the flamers? It's then 6x MM the remaining turns.

Just an idea...


New rets let you fire without movement penalty. It's part of the huge reason my Argent Shroud list works at all.

Some people say they know no fear. What they mean is that they have encountered and conquered it. I, on the other hand, truly know no fear. It is as alien to me as doubt, rage, or mercy.

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 Unit1126PLL wrote:
 deviantduck wrote:
Since Repressors are in the chapter approved and not getting the legends treatment, I had this idea. 1 repressor, 2x 5 rets, 3x MM, 2x Cherub. If argent shroud you could move 13-18" and shoot 10x MM out of the repressor. The cherubs grant 1 model to fire twice, the fire points grant 6 models. So 2 models shoot normally, and 4 models shoot twice. Granted it's at -1 unless you skip advance, or unless the new Rets ignore that? or is that only on the flamers? It's then 6x MM the remaining turns.

Just an idea...


New rets let you fire without movement penalty. It's part of the huge reason my Argent Shroud list works at all.


I feel like rets in a repressor are just too many points when I could be spreading all those meltas out into 10 man squads where they are impossible to scalpel out, -1 to hit be damned

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Falls Church, VA

 Grundz wrote:
 Unit1126PLL wrote:
 deviantduck wrote:
Since Repressors are in the chapter approved and not getting the legends treatment, I had this idea. 1 repressor, 2x 5 rets, 3x MM, 2x Cherub. If argent shroud you could move 13-18" and shoot 10x MM out of the repressor. The cherubs grant 1 model to fire twice, the fire points grant 6 models. So 2 models shoot normally, and 4 models shoot twice. Granted it's at -1 unless you skip advance, or unless the new Rets ignore that? or is that only on the flamers? It's then 6x MM the remaining turns.

Just an idea...


New rets let you fire without movement penalty. It's part of the huge reason my Argent Shroud list works at all.


I feel like rets in a repressor are just too many points when I could be spreading all those meltas out into 10 man squads where they are impossible to scalpel out, -1 to hit be damned


That's how I currently run them. 2x10 with MMs and a simulacrum. I also have a 1x10 Ret Heavy Flamer squad, to just run forwards and melt things.

Some people say they know no fear. What they mean is that they have encountered and conquered it. I, on the other hand, truly know no fear. It is as alien to me as doubt, rage, or mercy.

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 Unit1126PLL wrote:


That's how I currently run them. 2x10 with MMs and a simulacrum. I also have a 1x10 Ret Heavy Flamer squad, to just run forwards and melt things.


Sounds good, I was thinking that it is a better use of cherubs and you'll get more shots throughout the game

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 Grundz wrote:
 Unit1126PLL wrote:


That's how I currently run them. 2x10 with MMs and a simulacrum. I also have a 1x10 Ret Heavy Flamer squad, to just run forwards and melt things.


Sounds good, I was thinking that it is a better use of cherubs and you'll get more shots throughout the game


I actually don't run the Cherubs. Unfortunately, part of that 127 models accomplishment is cutting fancy wargear somewhere, and the Cherubs suffered.

Some people say they know no fear. What they mean is that they have encountered and conquered it. I, on the other hand, truly know no fear. It is as alien to me as doubt, rage, or mercy.

2nd Concordian Independent Super Heavy Tank Armoured Regiment - 12,376 points
Order of the Luminous Beacon - 2087 points
Nevian Conclave of the Ordo Hereticus - 2002 points 
   
Made in us
Confessor Of Sins




 Grundz wrote:
tneva82 wrote:

Swapping all rolls from 3d3 of exorcist fine. Swapping all rolls from multiple attackers no.


each shot from the exorcist is its own hit , wound and damage roll

You can't just replace whatever you want, you can pick one dice, and replace it

the only time you can replace multiple dice is if the individual roll is multiple dice, for example 2d6 damage or a charge roll, not if the model is shooting multiple shots


Speculation, no one but GW ACTUALLY knows how it works yet.

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ERJAK wrote:


Speculation, no one but GW ACTUALLY knows how it works yet.


I guess GW are the only ones that have read the 8e battle primer

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ERJAK wrote:
 Grundz wrote:
tneva82 wrote:

Swapping all rolls from 3d3 of exorcist fine. Swapping all rolls from multiple attackers no.


each shot from the exorcist is its own hit , wound and damage roll

You can't just replace whatever you want, you can pick one dice, and replace it

the only time you can replace multiple dice is if the individual roll is multiple dice, for example 2d6 damage or a charge roll, not if the model is shooting multiple shots


Speculation, no one but GW ACTUALLY knows how it works yet.


Well we know what the rules currently say. Did we know how marine doctrine system worked when codex released?

Not everything needs FAQ right away. Rule wise this isn't particularly difficult. It's one roll. 3 multimeltas firing is 3 separate rolls. If you don't believe here's question. Imagine there's unit that has special rule "can reroll damage roll". So it fires 4 multimeltas and gets all past save. If you arque miracle dice can be replace all 4 multimeltas you are arquing those are one dice roll and ergo this rerolling unit can reroll all at once but must reroll all if it's going to reroll any. All or nothing.

(even more if they are one roll then enemy can save them with one save. All or nothing)

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/12/02 20:48:01


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5265 pts
5150 pts
~3200 pts Knights

 
   
Made in us
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Falls Church, VA

Even playing it the weaker way I have found success with it!

Some people say they know no fear. What they mean is that they have encountered and conquered it. I, on the other hand, truly know no fear. It is as alien to me as doubt, rage, or mercy.

2nd Concordian Independent Super Heavy Tank Armoured Regiment - 12,376 points
Order of the Luminous Beacon - 2087 points
Nevian Conclave of the Ordo Hereticus - 2002 points 
   
 
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