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Made in us
Confessor Of Sins




 Grundz wrote:
ERJAK wrote:


Speculation, no one but GW ACTUALLY knows how it works yet.


I guess GW are the only ones that have read the 8e battle primer


No, they're the ones who haven't.

Also, being a jerk about it doesn't make you right, especially considering that exact same battle primer can be used to prove multiple miracle dice work thanks to fast rolling EXPLICITLY REPLACING THE INDIVIDUAL ATTACK SEQUENCE, at least for hits and wounds.

It might be 1 dice per roll. It might be multiple dice per roll. It might be multiple dice only work for fast dice. It might get totally reworded because GW didn't consider how the attack sequence works in 40k vs Sigmar when they copy pasted it.

To pretend like you know 100% for sure how it works or how it's intended to work is delusional overconfidence. You're sure of your interpretation. Neat. Doesn't mean a god dam thing.

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ERJAK wrote:

To pretend like you know 100% for sure how it works or how it's intended to work is delusional overconfidence. You're sure of your interpretation. Neat. Doesn't mean a god dam thing.


Oh I know man, you can play how you want, no one can force you to follow the rules.

There's no reason to throw a temper tantrum about it though

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/12/02 22:38:01


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Ancient Space Wolves Venerable Dreadnought




What's the take on Bloody Rose? Losing the +1 Strength really seems to hurt our melee capabilities, and taking Imagifiers to replace that seems like a costly substitute. We probably want Imagifiers anyways for the "Ignore AP-1", though, and Venerated Saint isn't the worst tax ever for an army that can be pretty flush with Command Points pretty easily.

Has anyone playtested Bloody Rose and would like to give feedback?
   
Made in fi
Decrepit Dakkanaut





ERJAK wrote:
 Grundz wrote:
ERJAK wrote:


Speculation, no one but GW ACTUALLY knows how it works yet.


I guess GW are the only ones that have read the 8e battle primer


No, they're the ones who haven't.

Also, being a jerk about it doesn't make you right, especially considering that exact same battle primer can be used to prove multiple miracle dice work thanks to fast rolling EXPLICITLY REPLACING THE INDIVIDUAL ATTACK SEQUENCE, at least for hits and wounds.

It might be 1 dice per roll. It might be multiple dice per roll. It might be multiple dice only work for fast dice. It might get totally reworded because GW didn't consider how the attack sequence works in 40k vs Sigmar when they copy pasted it.

To pretend like you know 100% for sure how it works or how it's intended to work is delusional overconfidence. You're sure of your interpretation. Neat. Doesn't mean a god dam thing.


a) you can only use fast dice rolling to fast roll it when it doesn't affect results. If there's going to be difference on end result it can't be used
b) I'm sure you don't have problem with me rolling all 10 saves with one dice Helpful as one command reroll works for all. After all you are arguing all the individual shots are considered one dice roll due to fast rolling...

I can't know what GW intended but I know what rules currently say and it's not even particularly clear. By your logic when game was released we needed FAQ that you can move partial movement and don't have to move full. And that you can indeed stay still! After all we didn't have FAQ for that and regardless of how clear rule is we need FAQ for everything or we can't know how rule is supposed to be played!

And maybe we need FAQ for a FAQ. After all we can't be sure what the FAQ is supposed to say...We can only guess. And FAQ for a FAQ for a FAQ.

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tneva82 wrote:

And maybe we need FAQ for a FAQ. After all we can't be sure what the FAQ is supposed to say...We can only guess. And FAQ for a FAQ for a FAQ.


The rules don't say I can't, therefore I can

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/12/02 22:52:25


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Missionary On A Mission



Ottawa

ERJAK wrote:
You're sure of your interpretation. Neat. Doesn't mean a god dam thing.


Pot calling the kettle black.

Cool down.
   
Made in us
Heroic Senior Officer





Murray, Kentucky

Wait, what's the confusion with miracle dice? It seemed pretty straightforward, when you go to roll for something, you could sub in a miracle dice per roll as long as you stayed within the confines of however many you got per turn and all that.

So if you shot say 4 meltas at something, you could burn two miracle dice to ensure two shots automatically hit. The other two roll normally. Then you're good.

What's the confusing part I'm missing here? It felt pretty cut and dry, especially with the examples GW provided.

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Sister Vastly Superior




 MrMoustaffa wrote:
Wait, what's the confusion with miracle dice? It seemed pretty straightforward, when you go to roll for something, you could sub in a miracle dice per roll as long as you stayed within the confines of however many you got per turn and all that.

So if you shot say 4 meltas at something, you could burn two miracle dice to ensure two shots automatically hit. The other two roll normally. Then you're good.

What's the confusing part I'm missing here? It felt pretty cut and dry, especially with the examples GW provided.
each of those Melta shots are completely separate attack rolls, so you can only replace 1. You can replace 2 dice in a charge roll though, because that roll is 2d6
   
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Lammia wrote:
 MrMoustaffa wrote:
Wait, what's the confusion with miracle dice? It seemed pretty straightforward, when you go to roll for something, you could sub in a miracle dice per roll as long as you stayed within the confines of however many you got per turn and all that.

So if you shot say 4 meltas at something, you could burn two miracle dice to ensure two shots automatically hit. The other two roll normally. Then you're good.

What's the confusing part I'm missing here? It felt pretty cut and dry, especially with the examples GW provided.
each of those Melta shots are completely separate attack rolls, so you can only replace 1. You can replace 2 dice in a charge roll though, because that roll is 2d6


*Caveat: I'd have to check but I think you are able to use a second dice on the same unit like that if it is your first dice used that phase /and/ they have a banner but I'd have to check the exact wording

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Am I missing something or is the Battle Sanctum, uhm...not bad?

50 points for a chunk of cover that you can place at will, can't be destroyed, and gives you a miracle die every round? Seems worth it just to park a squad of retributors behind it and let them shoot from cover all game.

Obviously we don't know what it'll look like. I'm assuming it'll be shaped more or less like a mini bastion, or wall of martyrs piece? Hard to imagine it having a physical size that makes it unusable.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/12/02 23:36:37


 
   
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Sister Vastly Superior




Hankovitch wrote:
Am I missing something or is the Battle Sanctum, uhm...not bad?

50 points for a chunk of cover that you can place at will, can't be destroyed, and gives you a miracle die every round? Seems worth it just to park a squad of retributors behind it and let them shoot from cover all game.

Obviously we don't know what it'll look like. I'm assuming it'll be shaped more or less like a mini bastion, or wall of martyrs piece? Hard to imagine it having a physical size that makes it unusable.
It's pretty good. It's drawback is it's taking a whole detachment, so you have to pick between that or a BR Vanguard/Outrider detachment and 1 CP


Automatically Appended Next Post:
(Or a third Battalion)

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/12/02 23:48:45


 
   
Made in us
Iron Fang



Troy, OH

The wording seems pretty clear to me that fast rolling is not considered one roll. You can substitute one or more dice on a charge roll, or a melta damage roll.

Also, for those pointing out that miracle dice seem likely to pile up faster than you can use them in this interpretation -- I feel like that's by design. The reason they pile up is so that you have a variety of good ones to use over the course of the game, and you can end your game with your 2's, 3's, and 4's in a little shrine of blessedness that you didn't have to resort to them because you were awash with their 1's, 5's, and 6's sisters.
   
Made in ca
Legendary Master of the Chapter





Lammia wrote:
Hankovitch wrote:
Am I missing something or is the Battle Sanctum, uhm...not bad?

50 points for a chunk of cover that you can place at will, can't be destroyed, and gives you a miracle die every round? Seems worth it just to park a squad of retributors behind it and let them shoot from cover all game.

Obviously we don't know what it'll look like. I'm assuming it'll be shaped more or less like a mini bastion, or wall of martyrs piece? Hard to imagine it having a physical size that makes it unusable.
It's pretty good. It's drawback is it's taking a whole detachment, so you have to pick between that or a BR Vanguard/Outrider detachment and 1 CP


Also sisters work best as a highly agressive offensive army, and terrain features tend to work best when defending.

Opinions are not facts please don't confuse the two 
   
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Kaffis wrote:
The wording seems pretty clear to me that fast rolling is not considered one roll. You can substitute one or more dice on a charge roll, or a melta damage roll.

Also, for those pointing out that miracle dice seem likely to pile up faster than you can use them in this interpretation -- I feel like that's by design. The reason they pile up is so that you have a variety of good ones to use over the course of the game, and you can end your game with your 2's, 3's, and 4's in a little shrine of blessedness that you didn't have to resort to them because you were awash with their 1's, 5's, and 6's sisters.


The other part is people probably aren't using them for things like invulnerable saves on your canonesses or advance rolls.

mid range dice still have their uses!

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BrianDavion wrote:
Lammia wrote:
Hankovitch wrote:
Am I missing something or is the Battle Sanctum, uhm...not bad?

50 points for a chunk of cover that you can place at will, can't be destroyed, and gives you a miracle die every round? Seems worth it just to park a squad of retributors behind it and let them shoot from cover all game.

Obviously we don't know what it'll look like. I'm assuming it'll be shaped more or less like a mini bastion, or wall of martyrs piece? Hard to imagine it having a physical size that makes it unusable.
It's pretty good. It's drawback is it's taking a whole detachment, so you have to pick between that or a BR Vanguard/Outrider detachment and 1 CP


Also sisters work best as a highly agressive offensive army, and terrain features tend to work best when defending.

It seems to me like a pretty good choice for your back field, because even as a defensive army you'll want something on your back rank to protect against Deep Strikers and hold objectives. Depending on what it looks like, (and assuming it offers some LoS blocking,) it could grant bespoke cover on your most important backfield objective on top of the other benefits.
The only reason not to take it, as Lammia pointed out, is the detachment. I've already got several list ideas I'm toying around with, and a big chunk of them have two Battalions and a third Vanguard or Outrider group to take advantage of another chapter. (Since new Sisters seem built from the ground up to run multiple chapters side-by-side.)
   
Made in ca
Legendary Master of the Chapter





there are some decent strats that require you to spend Mircle dice mind you, those are good to discard the chaff with. partiuclarly moment of grace as you can add it after, rolled a 3 and needed a 4 to wound? moment of grace that sucker!

Opinions are not facts please don't confuse the two 
   
Made in us
Iron Fang



Troy, OH

 Grundz wrote:
Kaffis wrote:
The wording seems pretty clear to me that fast rolling is not considered one roll. You can substitute one or more dice on a charge roll, or a melta damage roll.

Also, for those pointing out that miracle dice seem likely to pile up faster than you can use them in this interpretation -- I feel like that's by design. The reason they pile up is so that you have a variety of good ones to use over the course of the game, and you can end your game with your 2's, 3's, and 4's in a little shrine of blessedness that you didn't have to resort to them because you were awash with their 1's, 5's, and 6's sisters.


The other part is people probably aren't using them for things like invulnerable saves on your canonesses or advance rolls.

mid range dice still have their uses!

That's a good point, too -- you can sure burn up a lot of rolls if you put your mind to using mediocre ones in spots they're "good enough" to make sure you use one every phase.
   
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Kaffis wrote:

mid range dice still have their uses!

That's a good point, too -- you can sure burn up a lot of rolls if you put your mind to using mediocre ones in spots they're "good enough" to make sure you use one every phase.


Its tough to imagine how crazy our alpha strike would be if we had a stack of them on turn one and could use them like the above people claim.

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Ancient Space Wolves Venerable Dreadnought




 Grundz wrote:
Kaffis wrote:

mid range dice still have their uses!

That's a good point, too -- you can sure burn up a lot of rolls if you put your mind to using mediocre ones in spots they're "good enough" to make sure you use one every phase.


Its tough to imagine how crazy our alpha strike would be if we had a stack of them on turn one and could use them like the above people claim.

How many Miracle Dice can we actually get on turn one? I'm trying to think of what that number is in a reasonable list.
One automatic, of course. One from Triumph, and one from the fortification. One from the Warlord Trait. With a command point and some shenanigans, Sacred Rose can use Vessel of the Emperor's Will to turn 1 Miracle Dice into 2 in the first movement phase. That's 4-5 to start with. (Probably 4 for me, because I'm not a fan of Sacred Rose.) Any tools or tricks I'm missing to increase this?
   
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Waaaghpower wrote:
 Grundz wrote:
Kaffis wrote:

mid range dice still have their uses!

That's a good point, too -- you can sure burn up a lot of rolls if you put your mind to using mediocre ones in spots they're "good enough" to make sure you use one every phase.


Its tough to imagine how crazy our alpha strike would be if we had a stack of them on turn one and could use them like the above people claim.

How many Miracle Dice can we actually get on turn one? I'm trying to think of what that number is in a reasonable list.
One automatic, of course. One from Triumph, and one from the fortification. One from the Warlord Trait. With a command point and some shenanigans, Sacred Rose can use Vessel of the Emperor's Will to turn 1 Miracle Dice into 2 in the first movement phase. That's 4-5 to start with. (Probably 4 for me, because I'm not a fan of Sacred Rose.) Any tools or tricks I'm missing to increase this?


You could sub in a 1 during your shooting phase to kill your warlord with a combi plasma then turn it into D3 more

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Sister Vastly Superior




At the low, low cost of your WL. (Actually, could be fun with Terrible Knowledge for one whole game...)


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Wait, how are you getting Faith points for your Warlord? Martyred goves you CPs

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/12/03 01:43:22


 
   
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Lammia wrote:
At the low, low cost of your WL. (Actually, could be fun with Terrible Knowledge for one whole game...)


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Wait, how are you getting Faith points for your Warlord? Martyred goves you CPs


Oh I may have gotten that mixed up

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You can potentially get 1 at then end of the shooting phase for Sacrifice and another one from OoOML and one from a Repentia squad dieing.
   
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Murray, Kentucky

Is everyone just forgetting about order of the ebon chalice? You can get 6 at the start of the first game round with their warlord trait. Wouldn't that mean you could start with around 10 start of the game?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/12/03 02:49:29


'I've played Guard for years, and the best piece of advice is to always utilize the Guard's best special rule: "we roll more dice than you" ' - stormleader

"Sector Imperialis: 25mm and 40mm Round Bases (40+20) 26€ (Including 32 skulls for basing) " GW design philosophy in a nutshell  
   
Made in us
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 MrMoustaffa wrote:
Is everyone just forgetting about order of the ebon chalice? You can get 6 at the start of the first game round with their warlord trait. Wouldn't that mean you could start with around 10 start of the game?

You might want to re-read that rule...
   
Made in au
Sister Vastly Superior




 MrMoustaffa wrote:
Is everyone just forgetting about order of the ebon chalice? You can get 6 at the start of the first game round with their warlord trait. Wouldn't that mean you could start with around 10 start of the game?
That's... not what Ebon Chalice does...

Terrible Knowledge wrote:If this Warlord is on the battlefield, the Miracle dice you gain at the start of the first battle round is a 6. At the start of the first battle round,if your army is battle-forged and this Warlord is on the battlefield, you gain D3 Command Points.


So your first dice starts at a six, you don't get six dice.
   
Made in us
Grim Dark Angels Interrogator-Chaplain






A Protoss colony world

I've been looking through the codex to try and find any nifty wombo-combos, but I haven't really found anything super game-breakingly good. One thing I do want to try sometime would be a max squad of Bloody Rose Repentia with an Imagifier, Repentia Superior, and Preacher nearby. On the charge they get 4 attacks apiece, hitting on a 4+ rerollable, at S8 AP-4 D2, with all of those buffs. Only problem is delivery, as a max squad of 9 models can only have one character in a Rhino with them and they really want to have all 3 characters. You could probably live without the Superior, but the Preacher and Imagifier are must haves to make the attack viable. On average dice this kills a Knight in one round of combat! The real trick is getting the Repentia into melee in one piece, as they aren't terribly resilient. I guess charging through ruins is a must for this tactic.

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 Mr_Rose wrote:
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 ZergSmasher wrote:
I've been looking through the codex to try and find any nifty wombo-combos, but I haven't really found anything super game-breakingly good. One thing I do want to try sometime would be a max squad of Bloody Rose Repentia with an Imagifier, Repentia Superior, and Preacher nearby. On the charge they get 4 attacks apiece, hitting on a 4+ rerollable, at S8 AP-4 D2, with all of those buffs. Only problem is delivery, as a max squad of 9 models can only have one character in a Rhino with them and they really want to have all 3 characters. You could probably live without the Superior, but the Preacher and Imagifier are must haves to make the attack viable. On average dice this kills a Knight in one round of combat! The real trick is getting the Repentia into melee in one piece, as they aren't terribly resilient. I guess charging through ruins is a must for this tactic.

Another option depending on terrain, instead of charging through ruins, is to charge with the Rhino.
This same combo was viable minus the Imagifier pre-codex, and was equally deadly then. (Less AP but a smaller character tax.)
   
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Camas, WA

Keep it coming. This is good stuff (minus the rules debate that should be taken to YMDC)

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