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Gadzilla666 wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

Gadzilla666 wrote:
Well you didn't put the one per turn limit in there.

And I still say legions should be 3 tiered because we shouldn't have doctrines because the legions shouldn't behave the same. And maybe drawbacks like hh.

I'd take a form of nostroman blood if it got me my proposed rules for night lords.

That's part of a core rule at this point so I didn't bother to outline that.

I'm fine not being at 3 tiers as CSM should be more powerful individually and Space Marines simply being more disciplined. Ergo the Doctrines make sense for them if we get Vet stats at minimum for everything like we should.

Yeah I could see just getting the a talent for murder trait if we get votlw back.

Forget about "primaris " csm. Blech.

Yeah I also forgot about extra troops for the Legions too. Obviously Cult Marines go to the Cult Legions. Then we have Raptors for Night Lords, Possessed for Word Bearers, Terminators for Black Legion, Havocs for Iron Warriors, and for Alpha Legion I'm lost, as I'm for deleting the main Chaos Marine entry and moving Chosen to the Troop slot where they belong.

My thoughts are all over the forum for fixing the CSM codex though.

Not Online!!! wrote:

 vict0988 wrote:

Not Online!!! wrote:

 vict0988 wrote:
Sure, not enough that it needs to be mentioned in any of the codexes at least. It might be really common in the BL books.

iron warriors explicitly use bionics to surpress mutations. In big quantities.

The killing fields make sense though.

Source?

Lexicanum.

https://wh40k-de.lexicanum.com/wiki/Iron_Warriors

They deem it as a weakness.

If a single book is all that is needed to support a fact then Space Marines use multi-lasers. There is absolutely no mention in the codexes of Iron Warriors cutting off their mutated body-parts, just like there isn't any mention of Space Marines using multi-lasers in the codexes. There is however mention of Iron Warriors having a significant amount of Obliterators. You could argue that the codex fluff is poorly written and is missing important information, I'd agree with that to some degree, but no mention of what several of you find to be the second most important aspect of the legion? I think you're putting too much value in wiki articles that seemingly base the entire claim on a single novel from 2002. The littlest bit that was ever in a codex is Iron Warriors using bound daemonic energies to power cybernetically enhanced warriors instead of using possessed marines, but that was also from a time when they couldn't ally with Daemons, if you go with that then Iron Warriors might not use daemon engines which clearly isn't the case. Even in the novel used to support your point cybernetics aren't so much a way of improving one-self as much as it is a way to function despite self-mutilation. It isn't that Iron Warriors can't wait to mutate so they get more bionics, it's like "oh gak I mutated, welp gotta go have my arm cut off, get a replacement, maaan it'll be days before I'm back out and chopping up loyalists". That's my impression from skimming the most relevant bits of the Siege of Castellax novel.

I mean most people wouldn't care if Marines had access to Multilasers. How were they used in said novel?

irton warriors are often depicted with bionics, and when you look at a picture of iron warriors it's clear they're the most "mechinum" of the traitor legions.
which is why my original proposal basicly mated imperial fists with Iron Hands, it reckongizes this and leans into it a bit to give the Iron Warriors a identity beyond "we're traitor imperial fists"

one thing I'd do if I was doing a new chaos codex in addition to these traits BTW is I'd also restroe the boltgun AND chain sword to CSMs.

BrianDavion wrote:
irton warriors are often depicted with bionics, and when you look at a picture of iron warriors it's clear they're the most "mechinum" of the traitor legions.
which is why my original proposal basicly mated imperial fists with Iron Hands, it reckongizes this and leans into it a bit to give the Iron Warriors a identity beyond "we're traitor imperial fists"

one thing I'd do if I was doing a new chaos codex in addition to these traits BTW is I'd also restroe the boltgun AND chain sword to CSMs.

Imagine,general purpose infantry would be back.

You got +1 attack first round of combat for 0 pts instead of +1 attack for 1 pt. CCW was a bad option AFAIK because a normal CSM squad was still getting kicked around in melee whether it had chainswords or not.

 vict0988 wrote:
You got +1 attack first round of combat for 0 pts instead of +1 attack for 1 pt. CCW was a bad option AFAIK because a normal CSM squad was still getting kicked around in melee whether it had chainswords or not.

Not really, but then i also did run khorne icons.

My humble suggestions:

Alpha Legion - Subterfuge: When resolving an attack made with a ranged weapon against a unit with this tactic by a model that is more than 12" away, that unit is treated as having the benefit of cover to its saving throw, and if that unit is entirely on or within a terrain feature, it gains +2 to its saving throw instead of only +1. In addition, units with this legion trait may charge in a turn in which they fell back.

Black Legion - Black Crusaders: A unit with this legion trait treats rapid-fire weapons as assault weapons in a turn in which it advanced, and ignores the hit penalty for advancing and firing assault weapons. In addition, all INFANTRY and BIKER units with this legion trait benefit from Despoilers of the Galaxy.

World Eaters - Blood Madness: Increase the number of attacks a model with this legion trait gains from Hateful Assault by 1. In addition, PSYKERS must subtract 1 from any Psychic tests and Deny the Witch tests they take for each unit with this ability that is within 18" of them (to a maximum of -3).

Emperor's Children - Flawless Perfection: Units with this legion trait always fight first in the Fight phase even if they didn’t charge. Roll a d6 whenever a model with this ability would be slain or flee due to morale; on a 6 the model is not slain and remains on the battlefield with a single wound remaining, or that model does not flee.

Iron Warriors - Siege Lords: Enemies receive no bonus to their saving throw for being in cover against attacks made by units with this legion trait. If a unit has a damage chart, then double its current number of wounds for determining its characteristics.

Night Lords - Terror Tactics: Enemy units suffer -1 to their leadership for each unit with this legion trait within 6", to a maximum penalty of -3. In addition, when a unit with this legion trait advances or charges, you may reroll any or all of the dice.

Word Bearers - Profane Zeal: +1 Leadership. Whenever a model with this legion trait would lose a wound, roll a d6; on a 6+ that wound is not lost. Add 1 to the roll if that wound was lost as a result of a mortal wound. In addition, units with this legion trait may reroll morale checks.