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To be fair
1 I just noticed this thread
2 I was surprised it hadn’t been made
3 I proudly have a DA army
4 I was the butt of that comment for many years at my GW

BrianDavion wrote:

 Anfauglir wrote:
Some good ones mentioned here. I also like to suspect that Flesh Tearers are from World Eaters.

no they're not, they're sons of sanguinious. the flesh tearers are particularly violent yes but we know where this comes from

Yes... a convenient "truth" for the Inquisition/wider Imperium, just like the Silver Skulls being Ultramaries and the Blood Ravens not being Thousand Sons, etc. Anyway, I said "I like to suspect"; I know what the official fluff is.

well the jokes tired and worn out, tends to be a bit slower as a result

Carcharadons are a mix of Night Lords and Ashen Claws (raven guard who were kicked out by corax for being too cool).


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Anfauglir wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

 Anfauglir wrote:
Some good ones mentioned here. I also like to suspect that Flesh Tearers are from World Eaters.

no they're not, they're sons of sanguinious. the flesh tearers are particularly violent yes but we know where this comes from

Yes... a convenient "truth" for the Inquisition/wider Imperium, just like the Silver Skulls being Ultramaries and the Blood Ravens not being Thousand Sons, etc. Anyway, I said "I like to suspect"; I know what the official fluff is.

No Flesh Tearers are ba successors. They just don't seem like it because they're much more interesting and have characters who actually have personality.

Grey Knights, as they are explicitly stated to have started with several loyalist Space Marines from the traitor legions. Whether their geneseed is of the traitor legions or the Emperor himself is another question. One would think that it is of the traitor legions, as the Emperor wouldn't of had the time to create a new geneseed as he was incapacitated/almost dead and interred into the Golden Throne.

I love the Primaris chapter "Sons of the Phoenix"

First of all, they're called SONS OF THE PHOENIX. You know. Like the children of the Palatine Phoenix.

Secondly, they've got a purple, gold and white colour scheme.

Third, they're obsessed with purity, faith, and loyalty.

Fourth, they act nothing like a Dorn chapter whatsoever, but do seem very proud and keen on spectacle, ornamentation and ritual.

Fifth, their chapter icon looks more than a little like the EC one.

It's just so wonderfully blatant that Cawl just made them from Fulgrim geneseed and then when Guilliman was like "No using traitor geneseed, okay?" just scratched off "Fulgrim" on the paperwork and penciled in "Rogal Dorn".

Link:

https://warhammer40k.fandom.com/wiki/Sons_of_the_Phoenix



Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Anfauglir wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

 Anfauglir wrote:
Some good ones mentioned here. I also like to suspect that Flesh Tearers are from World Eaters.

no they're not, they're sons of sanguinious. the flesh tearers are particularly violent yes but we know where this comes from

Yes... a convenient "truth" for the Inquisition/wider Imperium, just like the Silver Skulls being Ultramaries and the Blood Ravens not being Thousand Sons, etc. Anyway, I said "I like to suspect"; I know what the official fluff is.

But doesn't the presence of The Flaw kind of PROVE that the Flesh Tearers are a BA successor? Like, they wouldn't exactly be reliving the psychic death-scream of Sanguinius if they were descended from Angron.

Aren’t Flesh Tearers in the BA codex or am I dreaming that up?

 Sgt_Smudge wrote:
If I understand correctly, in one of the 30k novels, when Sigismund is reprimanded by Dorn for trusting in Keeler's prophecies and as a result not leading an army into battle against Horus, Sigismund calls Dorn his father, and Dorn yells at him that Sigismund is not his son.
In another short story, Dorn confronts Malcador about the lost two Legions, and Malcador tells Dorn to speak the name of one of the lost Primarchs or Legions. Dorn realises that he can't remember, and it turns out the Malcador has put the memory of those Legions under a psychic memory lock. He also reveals that, when those Legions were judged/censored/etc etc, Guilliman and Dorn both said that the Marines of those Legions shouldn't be executed, and put to better use elsewhere.

Some people have taken that to mean that Sigismund wasn't actually an Imperial Fist Marine, and was actually a Space Marine from one of the Lost Legions who Dorn added into his own.

Those two pieces of evidence just sort of cancels each other out don't they? If Dorn is mentally blocked from recalling the lost legions, how can he then use that information to denounce Sigismund?

 Fajita Fan wrote:
Aren’t Flesh Tearers in the BA codex or am I dreaming that up?

Yes - the Flesh Tearers history is closely related to the Blood Angels and their shared Primarch. They are not anything but a BA successor.

He could be able to recall them indirectly when he's doing to insult or criticise somebody or the process isn't perfect.
Or people are grabbing at straws.

nataliereed1984 wrote:

But doesn't the presence of The Flaw kind of PROVE that the Flesh Tearers are a BA successor? Like, they wouldn't exactly be reliving the psychic death-scream of Sanguinius if they were descended from Angron.

Not if the cause of the Black Rage is actually from drinking the Blood of Sanguinius, instead of the suspected cause (having BA geneseed).

Remember Space Marines can inherit memories from those they consume...

nareik wrote:

nataliereed1984 wrote:

But doesn't the presence of The Flaw kind of PROVE that the Flesh Tearers are a BA successor? Like, they wouldn't exactly be reliving the psychic death-scream of Sanguinius if they were descended from Angron.

Not if the cause of the Black Rage is actually from drinking the Blood of Sanguinius, instead of the suspected cause (having BA geneseed).

Remember Space Marines can inherit memories from those they consume...

I think it is important to remember that the Blood Angels and their successors have an overactive Omophagea due to their geneseed stemming from Sanguinius. (The organ enabling them to learn through the stomach). This overactive part is what gives them/curses them with the Red Thirst, and gives them, compared to other space marines, an extraordinary effective ability to learn and inherit memories through blood drinking and flesh eating. While all Astartes have this ability to some extent, Astartes born via Sanguinius' geneseed have it to a much higher degree.

So while it might be plausible that non-ba successors drinking of Sanguinius' blood might experience something akin to the black rage/and or experience it fully in a lesser timespan, I highly doubt it would lead to the same results without the Omophagea inherited from Sanguinius. Also, I think (can't remember sources right now), that it is highly hinted that their shared genetic make-up influences this process further.

The Flesh Tearers are just the most loco of the BA (or they might even not be, which in itself is almost evidence that they are a BA successor).

 Psionara wrote:
Grey Knights, as they are explicitly stated to have started with several loyalist Space Marines from the traitor legions. Whether their geneseed is of the traitor legions or the Emperor himself is another question. One would think that it is of the traitor legions, as the Emperor wouldn't of had the time to create a new geneseed as he was incapacitated/almost dead and interred into the Golden Throne.

The part about them having traitor geneseed is false. Their geneseed explicitly comes from the Emperor himself.

 RaptorusRex wrote:

 Psionara wrote:
Grey Knights, as they are explicitly stated to have started with several loyalist Space Marines from the traitor legions. Whether their geneseed is of the traitor legions or the Emperor himself is another question. One would think that it is of the traitor legions, as the Emperor wouldn't of had the time to create a new geneseed as he was incapacitated/almost dead and interred into the Golden Throne.

The part about them having traitor geneseed is false. Their geneseed explicitly comes from the Emperor himself.

I thought they were descendants of Garro and the rest?

Big E doesn't have geneseed, I'm pretty sure

The Flesh Tearers are a Second Founding Chapter of the Blood Angels. That is to say, they were Blood Angels at the time the Legions were divided into Independent Chapters that each took on a separate name.

https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Flesh_Tearers

 Aestas wrote:

 RaptorusRex wrote:

 Psionara wrote:
Grey Knights, as they are explicitly stated to have started with several loyalist Space Marines from the traitor legions. Whether their geneseed is of the traitor legions or the Emperor himself is another question. One would think that it is of the traitor legions, as the Emperor wouldn't of had the time to create a new geneseed as he was incapacitated/almost dead and interred into the Golden Throne.

The part about them having traitor geneseed is false. Their geneseed explicitly comes from the Emperor himself.

I thought they were descendants of Garro and the rest?

Big E doesn't have geneseed, I'm pretty sure

I thought Custodes had their geneseed made from the Emperor's own DNA, rather than from a Primarch's geneseed? So the Custodes have Emperor geneseed?

nataliereed1984 wrote:

 Aestas wrote:

 RaptorusRex wrote:

 Psionara wrote:
Grey Knights, as they are explicitly stated to have started with several loyalist Space Marines from the traitor legions. Whether their geneseed is of the traitor legions or the Emperor himself is another question. One would think that it is of the traitor legions, as the Emperor wouldn't of had the time to create a new geneseed as he was incapacitated/almost dead and interred into the Golden Throne.

The part about them having traitor geneseed is false. Their geneseed explicitly comes from the Emperor himself.

I thought they were descendants of Garro and the rest?

Big E doesn't have geneseed, I'm pretty sure

I thought Custodes had their geneseed made from the Emperor's own DNA, rather than from a Primarch's geneseed? So the Custodes have Emperor geneseed?

I'm pretty sure it was stated somewhere that the Custodes transformation wasn't surgical, but a slow, dangerous transformation from childhood, guided by drugs and psychic manipulation, so I don't think they have any geneseed at all. Haven't read their new codex tho.

 RaptorusRex wrote:

 Psionara wrote:
Grey Knights, as they are explicitly stated to have started with several loyalist Space Marines from the traitor legions. Whether their geneseed is of the traitor legions or the Emperor himself is another question. One would think that it is of the traitor legions, as the Emperor wouldn't of had the time to create a new geneseed as he was incapacitated/almost dead and interred into the Golden Throne.

The part about them having traitor geneseed is false. Their geneseed explicitly comes from the Emperor himself.

how did it come from The Emperor? Through his (traitor) primarchs .

nareik wrote:

 RaptorusRex wrote:

 Psionara wrote:
Grey Knights, as they are explicitly stated to have started with several loyalist Space Marines from the traitor legions. Whether their geneseed is of the traitor legions or the Emperor himself is another question. One would think that it is of the traitor legions, as the Emperor wouldn't of had the time to create a new geneseed as he was incapacitated/almost dead and interred into the Golden Throne.

The part about them having traitor geneseed is false. Their geneseed explicitly comes from the Emperor himself.

how did it come from The Emperor? Through his (traitor) primarchs .

The first grand masters were eight knight-errants, some from traitor legions and some from loyalist ones. However, their gene-seed wasn't used for the grey knights, but rather when malcador took them to Titan there were already enough recruits for the new chapter as well as an ample supply of gene-seed from an undisclosed source, presumably the emperor.

 Dantioch wrote:

nareik wrote:

 RaptorusRex wrote:

 Psionara wrote:
Grey Knights, as they are explicitly stated to have started with several loyalist Space Marines from the traitor legions. Whether their geneseed is of the traitor legions or the Emperor himself is another question. One would think that it is of the traitor legions, as the Emperor wouldn't of had the time to create a new geneseed as he was incapacitated/almost dead and interred into the Golden Throne.

The part about them having traitor geneseed is false. Their geneseed explicitly comes from the Emperor himself.

how did it come from The Emperor? Through his (traitor) primarchs .

The first grand masters were eight knight-errants, some from traitor legions and some from loyalist ones. However, their gene-seed wasn't used for the grey knights, but rather when malcador took them to Titan there were already enough recruits for the new chapter as well as an ample supply of gene-seed from an undisclosed source, presumably the emperor.

But... How could he even have geneseed? He is "just" an extremely mighty psyker, right?

Minotaurs were rumoured to be at least partially of World Eater heritage, in the last set of Cursed Founding rules they even effectively had the Mark of Khorne (+1A). Lexicanum lists their geneseed as chimeric, and with their ties to working for the High Lords, I do wonder if they're a Space Wolf/World Eater hybrid designed to fill the "executioner" role the original Space Wolves Legion had of being used to bring other Space Marine Chapters into line, or just remove them from existence.

EDIT: just read further and it seems more likely they're a World Eater/Iron Warrior hybrid. "Fragmentary records of the Minotaurs in M36 indicate that their gene-seed was chimeric. While they avoided the genetic mutation that occurred in other Chapters from the same Founding, they quickly achieved an unsavoury reputation being uncontrolled berserkers. However, whether this is the same chapter as is currently recorded under the Minotaur name is highly uncertain. The current Minotaurs show no tendencies for becoming wild berzerkers, instead being far more controlled and strategic, as well as being known as brooding, malign, and obsessed with their defenses and security protocols to the point of paranoia."

 Aestas wrote:

 Dantioch wrote:

nareik wrote:

 RaptorusRex wrote:

 Psionara wrote:
Grey Knights, as they are explicitly stated to have started with several loyalist Space Marines from the traitor legions. Whether their geneseed is of the traitor legions or the Emperor himself is another question. One would think that it is of the traitor legions, as the Emperor wouldn't of had the time to create a new geneseed as he was incapacitated/almost dead and interred into the Golden Throne.

The part about them having traitor geneseed is false. Their geneseed explicitly comes from the Emperor himself.

how did it come from The Emperor? Through his (traitor) primarchs .

The first grand masters were eight knight-errants, some from traitor legions and some from loyalist ones. However, their gene-seed wasn't used for the grey knights, but rather when malcador took them to Titan there were already enough recruits for the new chapter as well as an ample supply of gene-seed from an undisclosed source, presumably the emperor.

But... How could he even have geneseed? He is "just" an extremely mighty psyker, right?

The Emperor presumably made the original geneseed, so making some that contains his own genetics doesn't seem much of a stretch.

 Baragash wrote:


The Emperor presumably made the original geneseed, so making some that contains his own genetics doesn't seem much of a stretch.

Well, since all Primarch contains elements of the Emperors DNA (presumably), all space marines contains parts his DNA already. I don't know. I just find it like cheap writing. First he had to make the Primarch out of a ton of different DNA, presumably also his own, and then create the legions from them. But alright, he could have just used his own from the get go? I don't like it. But then again, that doesn't mean much

Emperor's past was a false memory. Ironically after going on a quest to create the ultimate super soldiers/generals he had failed to realise, perhaps due to a psychic lock placed on him, he was the product of the almost exact same quest initiated by Malcador?

nareik wrote:
Emperor's past was a false memory. Ironically after going on a quest to create the ultimate super soldiers/generals he had failed to realise, perhaps due to a psychic lock placed on him, he was the product of the almost exact same quest initiated by Malcador?

Sounds exiting - source?

nataliereed1984 wrote:

I thought Custodes had their geneseed made from the Emperor's own DNA, rather than from a Primarch's geneseed? So the Custodes have Emperor geneseed?

Yep.

Aestas wrote:

I'm pretty sure it was stated somewhere that the Custodes transformation wasn't surgical, but a slow, dangerous transformation from childhood, guided by drugs and psychic manipulation, so I don't think they have any geneseed at all. Haven't read their new codex tho.

Yep.

nataliereed1984 wrote:
I love the Primaris chapter "Sons of the Phoenix"

First of all, they're called SONS OF THE PHOENIX. You know. Like the children of the Palatine Phoenix.

My headcanon is that the Death Eagles have been sending in Geneseed tithes for 10k years and they've been stockpiling it on somebody's order from back shortly after the Heresy. Cawl finds all this stuff (knowing who the Death Eagles are) and says "Whelp, they're loyalists, close enough."

 Nevelon wrote:
Wow. We are really slacking. It took a week and most of a page before we got to the DA=traitor bit? That should have been the 2nd-3rd post, within the 5th reply tops!

It’s because there are so few of the “Fallen” left to tell the truth

To be fair, the Lion conveniently waited to see who would win at Terra.

 John Prins wrote:

nataliereed1984 wrote:
I love the Primaris chapter "Sons of the Phoenix"

First of all, they're called SONS OF THE PHOENIX. You know. Like the children of the Palatine Phoenix.

My headcanon is that the Death Eagles have been sending in Geneseed tithes for 10k years and they've been stockpiling it on somebody's order from back shortly after the Heresy. Cawl finds all this stuff (knowing who the Death Eagles are) and says "Whelp, they're loyalists, close enough."

Hell, he wouldn't even NEED a big 10,000 year stockpile of tithes! Cawl first started working on the Primaris way back during the scouring. All he would've needed was a little bit of Fulgrim geneseed still in the vaults, or even recovered from the casualties on Terra, to get going with.

Also, with all of them having nails in their brains, it's hard to imagine any World Eaters chilling out and staying loyal.
For the other traitor legions, I suppose it's possible that some stayed on the Emperor's side.

The world eaters that have the nail implants have all been or end up being traitors, the ones refuse the implants end up being knights errant for malcador

There were World Eaters, nail bearers amongst them, who remained loyal. Shabran Darr explicitly is mentioned as having the nails, and IIRC there's nothing to indicate Macer Varren didn't, and Endryd Haar explicility doesn't have the nails, but is plenty brutal without them,

And there's my personal favourite, Captain Ehrlen. Survived the virus bombing of Isstvaan III, sees Angron and his coterie of faithless oathbrearkers land and exit their dropships. I'm sure he knows he doesn't stand a chance. And so what does he do? He points, yells "traitor" and charges to his death.

Ehrlen dies early - Darr survives till later. But Varren goes on to have a relatively illustrious career, as these things go, although it's unclear whether the implants he has - including a mention of pain engines (something like that, I don't remember offhand) are the nails or not.