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Pointed Stick wrote:

 alextroy wrote:
I've never played a 40K game that way, but that is the issue that would either require the most changes or would most impact game balance. In theory, you could have a Charge Phase after Shooting and before Fight, but you'd have to decide how to do it. Would it be one player does all charges than the other player does all, or alternating units?

I don't get to play enough 40K to try and workout the issue. My input is that GW has done a workable system in Kill Team that works rather well with single models. It should work similarly via units.

Hmm, not necessarily. It works well in a gang fight-scale game because there's an inherently limited power scale between individual infantry models, but adding in squad-level units, tanks, hero characters, etc. introduces vast differences in power level.

Then again maybe it's not a problem in practice.

I think the main issue will be with superheavies with multiple weapon systems, but as has been suggested the best solution there if for those units to have each weapon system segregated into separate turns.

One rough option for titanic units would be to make them skip your turn, EG:

If you activate a titanic unit, you must skip your next turn.

Some titanic units (the larger ones) will cause you to skip 2 turns.

This can be added to their TITANIC keyword, EG TITANIC(2) skips 2 turns after activation.

This will remove the issue of CC titanic units having to charge, then use one weapon, then the opponent falls back, then the titanic unit is screwed. Or a multi-use one activating weapons first, then move/charge after. Or charging, wiping out a transport, then unloading their weapons into the disembarked units.

So orks might be:

Killtanks, garg squiggoths TITANIC(1)
Stompa TITANIC(2)
Gargants TITANIC(3)

Light knights would be TITANIC(1), the huge ones with loads of guns would be TITANIC(2), titans would be TITANIC(3).

they will still do everything in one go, but it will "cost" 2-3 activations instead. the most efficient way to use them is last, as you have no other activations to wait for, but you could use them first and skip 1-3 activations afterward.

What do you guys think? I think the other issues are more or less solved in various ways in this thread.

One potential soft-counter for "Spam Hormigaunts so you can activate all your Flyrants after the opponent is done":
-"A player may pass as long as they have fewer remaining activations than the other player"

This would help the player with fewer activations, but not by quite as much as having more activations would.

Another area that'd likely take a lot of balance passes to get right is units that work in tandem. Take CWE infantry - with IGOUGO, you can "ambush" the enemy, taking on half their army with your entire army. Done right, their infantry can take on a lot of enemy units without sustaining return fire. Which is important, because these sorts of units should lose a head-to-head firefight.

Take the same units and play AA. You can't "ambush" anymore. Once you activate one of your units, the opponent can then activate and retaliate before your ambush is done.

As such, the appropriate points value for high-mobility short-range glass cannons is higher in IGOUGO than AA. So if the units are fairly pointed in IGOUGO, they need a hike in AA (and vice-versa).

iougo as bee adressed long time ago in the game "confrontation".

i played this game and it had miniatures for a quarter or half the points in your list if not more.

system worked this way:

each unit is represented by a card.
before the turn begins you prepare secretly a sequence of activations making a pile of cards.
first player to draw a card was determined by a roll + highest leadership on each side.
Then each player draw a card at his turn, play the unit and pass. the player with the less cards before the turn begins can refuse to play a number of time equal to the difference in the number of cards.
there was something linked to certain units to play 2 cards in a row or refuse to play even if you have more cards, reserve a card for later but no more than 1 at a time, force the activation of the next card, send the next card at the bottom of the pile. Something like stratagems.

combat phase was an alternative phase but different from the activation phase.

what's genius is the fact that you prepare your activation before the turn. so there is no brain freeze trying to adapt to an enemy move by selecting the right unit.
You had "stratagems" to manipulate your pile and the opponent's pile .
But to do that and adapt you have to anticipate what your opponent planned from the start and keep tract on your own activation pile, because once done you can't look at it.

This pesky aberration (120 pts in 300 ish list, something like that, hurting like a freight train at supersonic speed), ok it hurts but most of the time if you can predict when it will be played you can totaly screw a third of you opponent's list.


just give it a try. all you need is paper, random cards, sleeves and these stratagems:


1cp : instead of playing reserve a card for later. you can pick it instead of drawing only one card in reserve at a time.
3cp : put the top card of your opponent's pile on the bottom
2cp: play 2 cards in a row
2cp: force your opponent to play the top card and only the top card, can be reserved.
1 cp: refuse to play (doesn't take precedence over the previous stratagem)

few modifications:
first player is selected as usual.
a unit charged this turn can't fall back.
maluses lingers for the round only.
you activate, move, shoot, cast and declare a charge.
combat phase: player who successfully charged first pick the first unit to fight amongst charging units, then you alternate. when there is no more charging units the other player choose a remaining units, then you alternate.
morale/ objective/points.

new round.