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I keep seeing people saying the box has 2 of each special, GW specifies there are 4 of each in the box. "four of each special weapon are incuded in the kit for maximum choice"

Dudeface wrote:
I keep seeing people saying the box has 2 of each special, GW specifies there are 4 of each in the box. "four of each special weapon are incuded in the kit for maximum choice"

people are just USED to only getting 2 of every toy

 Brightsword wrote:

craggy wrote:

 Crimson wrote:
I will totally build one flamer squad because the flamer lady from the starter box is so awesome.

yeah, there's nothing wrong with having at least one gal with a deterrent against being charged from a few inches away. I'm putting mine in with the chainsword Sis Superior as the more eager squad.

Interesting, so is chainsword on the superior not the obious, go-to choice?

Very much the obvious choice for the single-build model in the starter set I have.
I'll probably get more concerned with the multi-option kits, and yeah, probably not use any more flamers.

Just be aware that the Battle Sister/Dominion/Celestian box are all basically mono-pose models. Sure you get 12 special weapons in the box, but you only get the arms to use 4 of them. There are 2 Simulacrums, but you only have the torso/arms to build one of them.

You'd probably have to start doing some conversions to make the special weapons fit onto the 'bolter only' arms (I guess either carefully cutting weapons off at the top of the grips so you can stick them on the other hands, or resculpting the arms in the case of the two heavy weapon/bolter in left arm models).

 GoonBandito wrote:
There are 2 Simulacrums, but you only have the torso/arms to build one of them.

you sure about that?

BrianDavion wrote:

 GoonBandito wrote:
There are 2 Simulacrums, but you only have the torso/arms to build one of them.

you sure about that?

Yes. Both simulacrum poles are sculpted with the right arm and right shoulder pad as one piece. There's only one torso set that is missing the right shoulder pad for the simulacrum pole/arm/shoulder. You'd have to a decent amount of converting to make the simulacrum fit onto another body and still look ok. It seems GW have made the models so they can't easily use the pieces from other models in the box - everything really only goes together one way, with specific arms/weapons and legs for each torso. Its a far cry from the good old space marine models...

craggy wrote:

 Brightsword wrote:

craggy wrote:

 Crimson wrote:
I will totally build one flamer squad because the flamer lady from the starter box is so awesome.

yeah, there's nothing wrong with having at least one gal with a deterrent against being charged from a few inches away. I'm putting mine in with the chainsword Sis Superior as the more eager squad.

Interesting, so is chainsword on the superior not the obious, go-to choice?

Very much the obvious choice for the single-build model in the starter set I have.
I'll probably get more concerned with the multi-option kits, and yeah, probably not use any more flamers.

Combi-Flamers are a legitimate choice on Sister Superiors, worst case is you have a trinity capable squad.

 GoonBandito wrote:

Yes. Both simulacrum poles are sculpted with the right arm and right shoulder pad as one piece. There's only one torso set that is missing the right shoulder pad for the simulacrum pole/arm/shoulder. You'd have to a decent amount of converting to make the simulacrum fit onto another body and still look ok. It seems GW have made the models so they can't easily use the pieces from other models in the box - everything really only goes together one way, with specific arms/weapons and legs for each torso. Its a far cry from the good old space marine models...

I'd say it is pretty trivial conversion.

ERJAK wrote:
2 stormbolters or 2 meltas and a combi-melta. The end.

Regular flamers are never good. Holy trinity is a trap. The melee weapons all suck because you hit on 4s. Even bloody rose won't save that.

Having 3 meltas in a squad of 5 seems like an easy way to bleed points when the other player only has to kill 2 bodies before he gets to kill squishy 23 and 24 point models.
Sure, at first glance "not losing models to morale" sounds pretty good, until you realize you are achieving that by getting your special weapons that cost at least two and half times as many points per model killed instead and having the squad wiped.
Well, unless you put them into a Rhino, but then you might as well take Celestians, Dominions or particularly Seraphim instead who give you more bang for your investment.

As far as Battle Sisters Squads with Melta are concerned, I'd either go with a single melta and a storm bolter in a squad of 5 or 2 melta+ combi and 4-5 extra bodies. Thanks to miracle dice, even having a single melta is a serious deterrent (you hit and wound? Insta 5 or 6 damage. Or you get charged by some monstrosity and you just use a miracle dice to get that 6 you need to hit during overwatch for some tasty damage), especially if they are spread throughout multiple squads. Or you go horde because Sisters have plenty of ways to minimize morale issues (a single missionary prevents 50% of all morale casualties AND hands out +1 Attack to the entire blob in addition to being dirt cheap and filling a HQ slot) and several Orders that favor that approach, have 2 melta + combi and 4-7 extra bodies to keep those special weapons worth 70 points alive and making a Simulacrum worthwhile (which in turn again makes the squad even more dangerous).

When in doubt, just take two storm bolters and maybe a combi if you run a larger unit. Flamers are fine for casual matches, but otherwise if you have any flamers (e.g. the awesome one from the army box) I'd just use them as Heavy Flamer stand-ins in a Retributor Squad with Heavy Flamers, those actually make flamers useful with 12" range, especially if you are playing Ebon Chalice (36 S5 -1AP auto-hits in a single turn? Yum!).

Yeah, Sisters are not Space Marines. They're T3, and for those of you that don't play both T3 and T4 armies, that makes a MASSIVE difference in survivability.

But no one really expects basic battle sisters to do much more than hold objectives. Or at least they shouldn't. Three units of 5 sisters with 2 storm bolters next to an Imagifier is about 200pts and if they're in cover they're very hard to shift with traditional anti-infantry weapons. You don't use Sisters squads to kill stuff, you use them to be stubborn donkey-caves. I feel like people putting meltas in squads is more for the situational usefulness of them more than anything else.

 Sim-Life wrote:
But no one really expects basic battle sisters to do much more than hold objectives. Or at least they shouldn't. Three units of 5 sisters with 2 storm bolters next to an Imagifier is about 200pts and if they're in cover they're very hard to shift with traditional anti-infantry weapons. You don't use Sisters squads to kill stuff, you use them to be stubborn donkey-caves. I feel like people putting meltas in squads is more for the situational usefulness of them more than anything else.

You can't just rely on your three exorcists to be your only anti-tank. They're better than they used to be, but they're still just 1-3 tanks to be shot at by the enemy.

 Melissia wrote:

 Sim-Life wrote:
But no one really expects basic battle sisters to do much more than hold objectives. Or at least they shouldn't. Three units of 5 sisters with 2 storm bolters next to an Imagifier is about 200pts and if they're in cover they're very hard to shift with traditional anti-infantry weapons. You don't use Sisters squads to kill stuff, you use them to be stubborn donkey-caves. I feel like people putting meltas in squads is more for the situational usefulness of them more than anything else.

You can't just rely on your three exorcists to be your only anti-tank. They're better than they used to be, but they're still just 1-3 tanks to be shot at by the enemy.

If they couldn't use miracle dice you'd be right.

Still just 1-3 tanks to be shot at by the entire anti-tank capability of your opponent. Even with miracle dice, they're gonna get some serious hits in, and Exorcists are only two wounds tougher than a Rhino.

 Melissia wrote:
Still just 1-3 tanks to be shot at by the entire anti-tank capability of your opponent. Even with miracle dice, they're gonna get some serious hits in, and Exorcists are only two wounds tougher than a Rhino.

I've always been told to just hide behind terrain, alpha strike isn't a problem.

 BaconCatBug wrote:

 Melissia wrote:
Still just 1-3 tanks to be shot at by the entire anti-tank capability of your opponent. Even with miracle dice, they're gonna get some serious hits in, and Exorcists are only two wounds tougher than a Rhino.

I've always been told to just hide behind terrain, alpha strike isn't a problem.

This has nothing to do with your tired old whines, BCB.

The problem I'm describing is putting all your eggs in one basket. If the only reliable anti-tank that you put in your Sisters army is a trio of Exorcists, and you have no other units capable of anti-tank, of COURSE all the enemy's anti-tank is going to be aimed at them. If your anti-tank ability is spread out due to taking a more balanced list, they'll have to likewise spread out their firepower.

 Melissia wrote:

 BaconCatBug wrote:

 Melissia wrote:
Still just 1-3 tanks to be shot at by the entire anti-tank capability of your opponent. Even with miracle dice, they're gonna get some serious hits in, and Exorcists are only two wounds tougher than a Rhino.

I've always been told to just hide behind terrain, alpha strike isn't a problem.

This has nothing to do with your tired old whines, BCB.

The problem I'm describing is putting all your eggs in one basket. If the only reliable anti-tank that you put in your Sisters army is a trio of Exorcists, and you have no other units capable of anti-tank, of COURSE all the enemy's anti-tank is going to be aimed at them. If your anti-tank ability is spread out due to taking a more balanced list, they'll have to likewise spread out their firepower.

Agreed. No reason to only have Exorcists for AT when particularly Seraphim are fantastically cheap and efficient, Multi-Melta Retributors are very good (if CP hungry) and some meltas are easily sprinkled into the army.

 Melissia wrote:
Still just 1-3 tanks to be shot at by the entire anti-tank capability of your opponent. Even with miracle dice, they're gonna get some serious hits in, and Exorcists are only two wounds tougher than a Rhino.

Well, if a rhino had Shield of faith. A Valorous Heart Exorcist also treats AP1 like AP0, and AP2 like AP0 if there's and imagifier handy.

Even without these, it can MD auto 6 the shield of faith.

Though I do absolutely take your point about diversification. Burning Descent + MD + twin inferno pistols + Sky Strike is nice anti-tank.

PenitentJake wrote:

 Melissia wrote:
Still just 1-3 tanks to be shot at by the entire anti-tank capability of your opponent. Even with miracle dice, they're gonna get some serious hits in, and Exorcists are only two wounds tougher than a Rhino.

Well, if a rhino had Shield of faith. A Valorous Heart Exorcist also treats AP1 like AP0, and AP2 like AP0 if there's and imagifier handy.

And higher toughness. They're quite a bit sturdier than a Rhino. Not to forget the FnP on a VH Exorcist, too.

So what are good builds for Retributors?

 Crimson wrote:
So what are good builds for Retributors?

4 multimeltas and a simulacrum.

 Sim-Life wrote:

 Crimson wrote:
So what are good builds for Retributors?

4 multimeltas and a simulacrum.

they're also one of the best ways to deploy heavy flamers in the game IMHO

PenitentJake wrote:
Well, if a rhino had Shield of faith.

Sororitas Rhinos do have Shield of Faith.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Crimson wrote:
So what are good builds for Retributors?

What does your army list need most?

I've just been and picked up my preordered stuff – a box each of Sisters and Retributors. I'm now suffering horrifically from build option paralysis.

Lammia wrote:

craggy wrote:

 Brightsword wrote:

craggy wrote:

 Crimson wrote:
I will totally build one flamer squad because the flamer lady from the starter box is so awesome.

yeah, there's nothing wrong with having at least one gal with a deterrent against being charged from a few inches away. I'm putting mine in with the chainsword Sis Superior as the more eager squad.

Interesting, so is chainsword on the superior not the obious, go-to choice?

Very much the obvious choice for the single-build model in the starter set I have.
I'll probably get more concerned with the multi-option kits, and yeah, probably not use any more flamers.

Combi-Flamers are a legitimate choice on Sister Superiors, worst case is you have a trinity capable squad.

Hand flamers are better for this than combi-flamers. Even then you should just use triple melta or double stormbolter instead. Holy trinity is a trap.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

BrianDavion wrote:

 Sim-Life wrote:

 Crimson wrote:
So what are good builds for Retributors?

4 multimeltas and a simulacrum.

they're also one of the best ways to deploy heavy flamers in the game IMHO

IF you run argent shroud or Ebon Chalice. For OoML or Valorous Heart or even Sacred Rose you're better off with multimeltas. With Bloody Rose you should be running Mortifiers.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

nekooni wrote:

PenitentJake wrote:

 Melissia wrote:
Still just 1-3 tanks to be shot at by the entire anti-tank capability of your opponent. Even with miracle dice, they're gonna get some serious hits in, and Exorcists are only two wounds tougher than a Rhino.

Well, if a rhino had Shield of faith. A Valorous Heart Exorcist also treats AP1 like AP0, and AP2 like AP0 if there's and imagifier handy.

And higher toughness. They're quite a bit sturdier than a Rhino. Not to forget the FnP on a VH Exorcist, too.

Another cool thing is that thanks to miracle dice and being 3d3 shots, bracketing isn't honestly all that big of a deal. You're still doing crazy amounts of damage just getting 1 or 2 shots through.

ERJAK wrote:
2 stormbolters or 2 meltas and a combi-melta. The end.

Regular flamers are never good. Holy trinity is a trap. The melee weapons all suck because you hit on 4s. Even bloody rose won't save that.

Though to be fair, always take your free chainsword just in case.

A maul on a bloody rose celestian makes for one very killy model even if her subordinates suck.

 Ragnar Blackmane wrote:

 Melissia wrote:

 BaconCatBug wrote:

 Melissia wrote:
Still just 1-3 tanks to be shot at by the entire anti-tank capability of your opponent. Even with miracle dice, they're gonna get some serious hits in, and Exorcists are only two wounds tougher than a Rhino.

I've always been told to just hide behind terrain, alpha strike isn't a problem.

This has nothing to do with your tired old whines, BCB.

The problem I'm describing is putting all your eggs in one basket. If the only reliable anti-tank that you put in your Sisters army is a trio of Exorcists, and you have no other units capable of anti-tank, of COURSE all the enemy's anti-tank is going to be aimed at them. If your anti-tank ability is spread out due to taking a more balanced list, they'll have to likewise spread out their firepower.

Agreed. No reason to only have Exorcists for AT when particularly Seraphim are fantastically cheap and efficient, Multi-Melta Retributors are very good (if CP hungry) and some meltas are easily sprinkled into the army.

I uh, disagree.

Seraphim aren't really that cheap or efficient, it takes CP to actually make them do their thing period, if you can't use the stratagem they're out of range, and even with the stratagem they only have 3" of tolerance to actually reach their target. [Also, they're not on the board T1 if you're doing this, and can't reach the enemy T1 if they start on board]

Rets are absurdly expensive for a very low toughness, but they can move and fire so without CP they have effective reach out to 30", 42" with the 2 CP stratagem. I think the stratagem is not very good [it's basically 3 separate 1 CP stratagems that are presented as one], and should be avoided when unnecessary, but fortunately with move+fire the Rets don't need it to be effective.


Exorcists are still the best indigenous AT option. But after them, I'd almost take meltagun BSS over some of the specialist options.

 GoonBandito wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

 GoonBandito wrote:
There are 2 Simulacrums, but you only have the torso/arms to build one of them.

you sure about that?

Yes. Both simulacrum poles are sculpted with the right arm and right shoulder pad as one piece. There's only one torso set that is missing the right shoulder pad for the simulacrum pole/arm/shoulder. You'd have to a decent amount of converting to make the simulacrum fit onto another body and still look ok. It seems GW have made the models so they can't easily use the pieces from other models in the box - everything really only goes together one way, with specific arms/weapons and legs for each torso. Its a far cry from the good old space marine models...

I managed to get spare one without too much headache. And got different pose for added bonus. Yey.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Melissia wrote:
Yeah, Sisters are not Space Marines. They're T3, and for those of you that don't play both T3 and T4 armies, that makes a MASSIVE difference in survivability.

3+, ignore -2, 6+++. I take that over T4 infantry.