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 Kanluwen wrote:

 Canadian 5th wrote:

 Sgt_Smudge wrote:
They're just as valid as anyone else's.
Is that a problem?

Only that those who play the least competitive mode probably shouldn't be speaking about the balance of the game.

Right, because it's so much more competitive to play Optimizedlisthammer than it is to actually play the game.


Power Level encourages both fun and fluffy play and munchkin play.


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 Elbows wrote:
The Warscroll Builder was one of the random "free" crutches GW deployed when AoS was met with an underwhelming response. GW had a dead WHFB game...and an unproven AoS product so they propped it up with a number of free things to help encourage players adopt the game. GW has zero issue with sales of 40K and thus need to provide nothing free of charge.

Warscroll Builder came out quite a bit after points did, you know that right?

It was still put out to prop up the game. When points arrived it didn't suddenly swing everyone over to playing AoS suddenly, you know that right?

beast_gts wrote:
Two of my FLGS' regularly run PL tournaments / events.

Thanks for your anecdote, may I point you to the list of tournaments run using the ITC ruleset?

 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:
I do conceede that the books are probably more effective for them. Beyond the profits from selling books, pretty hardbacks with color photographs and long lore sections can catch people's eye and get them into the hobby and to buy new miniatures in a way that a black and white book or file of rules spreadsheets won't.

Pretty much this.


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 Canadian 5th wrote:
Thanks for your anecdote, may I point you to the list of tournaments run using the ITC ruleset?

What the feth does this wankery have to do with the topic at hand?

 Melissia wrote:

 Canadian 5th wrote:
Thanks for your anecdote, may I point you to the list of tournaments run using the ITC ruleset?

What the feth does this wankery have to do with the topic at hand?

Not so much at this point, I'll admit.

It was announced years ago and then... Nothing.

Vaporware... It's a real thing.

Canadian 5th wrote:I do. You generally have to accept the rules of the game you're playing in order to play it.

So why all the complaining? Doesn't sound like a lot of people accept the rules as is.

But, I digress. You know the point I'm making, and I'll leave it at that.

 Sgt_Smudge wrote:

SleeperAgent wrote:Does anyone actually use the combat roster?

Me. I play Power Level though.

So, for all of my purposes, Combat Roster and WYSIWYG is enough to build lists for me.

Lucky.

Granted I have played more than a few impromptu games where my army was closer to Open Play as I threw a bunch of stuff together and said, "Yeah, that's probably 1,XXX points." I am usually only 80-90% under the agreed upon total when I go back and add it up though.

I would be terrible at playing PL, I would want to take all the options on everything. It works for some people but I need the limiting factor of points to stop me being stupid.

 Trickstick wrote:
I would be terrible at playing PL, I would want to take all the options on everything. It works for some people but I need the limiting factor of points to stop me being stupid.

Nah, that's fair! Play what you know suits you - I know that I'm pretty WYSIWGY focused, but that I just take what I like the look of, not what's necessarily the more powerful option. Luckily, I know that the people around me play similarly, so there's rarely a conflict of interest.

And similarly by that respect, if you and your opponent both agreed you wanted to play PL and go completely ham on the options and go all in, there's not a problem with that!

 Trickstick wrote:

 Trimarius wrote:
It wouldn't cost that much, really.

I never believe this when people say it. Things are expensive.

Relatively inexpensive when compared to what else a multi-million dollar corporation is spending money on. It'd likely cost less than getting one unit's worth of molds cut (assuming those still run in the tens of thousands), which is obviously a bit steep for a normal person, but something they could absolutely afford if they wanted one. They just don't.

Battlescribe is basically just a random guy's hobby project from a decade ago with a bunch of free data entry keeping it relevant, after all.

 Trimarius wrote:

 Trickstick wrote:

 Trimarius wrote:
It wouldn't cost that much, really.

I never believe this when people say it. Things are expensive.

Relatively inexpensive when compared to what else a multi-million dollar corporation is spending money on. It'd likely cost less than getting one unit's worth of molds cut (assuming those still run in the tens of thousands), which is obviously a bit steep for a normal person, but something they could absolutely afford if they wanted one. They just don't.

Battlescribe is basically just a random guy's hobby project from a decade ago with a bunch of free data entry keeping it relevant, after all.

I'd think it could probably be done on the cheap as a 3rd/4th year programming class's group project if GW really cared.

Trickstick wrote:

 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:
We have battlescribe, so it's not like it can't be done.

You know how much Battlescribe would cost to make if you had to pay the volunteers? I imagine a fair bit. A lot of free labour goes into that.

I am aware, and I thank those volunteers greatly.

That doesn't really pass the point that it can be done though. A big company has a lot of resources.

AnomanderRake wrote:

 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:
...I do conceede that the books are probably more effective for them. Beyond the profits from selling books, pretty hardbacks with color photographs and long lore sections can catch people's eye and get them into the hobby and to buy new miniatures in a way that a black and white book or file of rules spreadsheets won't.

Yes, but telling people who have been in the hobby for years and gone through a number of edition changes "You must buy hundreds of dollars of hardback art-books or we won't give you your rules updates!" every couple of years when pretty much everyone else in the industry has made cheap/free digital rules available feels like they're just being obtuse.

Yeah, but for all the people like you or I that would be happy with black and white spreadsheets with rules and don't really care about the lore and color art and all that stuff, the lore and color art is what spreads the knowledge and building excitement about the game for new players.

Trickstick wrote:I would be terrible at playing PL, I would want to take all the options on everything. It works for some people but I need the limiting factor of points to stop me being stupid.

Well, that's what I did when we played PL. I took it as basically expected. It was actually kind of fun to have things that I would never ordinarily buy except to use up extra points, like pintle guns and H-K missiles.

 oni wrote:
It was announced years ago and then... Nothing.

Vaporware... It's a real thing.

To be fair, they did release an army builder program back in 4th?5th? edition, but then didn't support it after the initial release. Not releasing the software at all is probably the less irritating option, ultimately.

 Canadian 5th wrote:

 Trimarius wrote:

 Trickstick wrote:

 Trimarius wrote:
It wouldn't cost that much, really.

I never believe this when people say it. Things are expensive.

Relatively inexpensive when compared to what else a multi-million dollar corporation is spending money on. It'd likely cost less than getting one unit's worth of molds cut (assuming those still run in the tens of thousands), which is obviously a bit steep for a normal person, but something they could absolutely afford if they wanted one. They just don't.

Battlescribe is basically just a random guy's hobby project from a decade ago with a bunch of free data entry keeping it relevant, after all.

I'd think it could probably be done on the cheap as a 3rd/4th year programming class's group project if GW really cared.

Just a friendly reminder that Games Workshop is now a BILLION dollar company. They can afford to hire some programmers now.