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2020/04/19 12:14:42
Subject: Who is considered the single greatest astarte in terms of pure combat ability
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Crazed Spirit of the Defiler
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I could go for Kharn up at tier 1 but I’m very biased to the axe wielding maniac. I’m only hesitant because he’s more like a force of nature. Granted most fights he’s in, he’s fairly overwhelming and his opponent has to retreat to win. I could definitely go for it but I’m a full blown CSM homer.
Sevatar only really gets a POV piece in Prince of Crows. Most of everything else is from other other characters describing him. He’s one of the more we’ll liked Night Lords within and without his legion. He also gave the original death to the false emperor war cry.
I agree the table top is a bad measure simply because of the rules limitations. I prefer the novel the codex myself. The good novels put a dose of reality to most characters but the codex tends to be over the top on everything (as it should be since it’s suppose to hype the army). I might suggest only using positive examples though. Being the designated villain in another splat piece or novel tends to make you extremely inept.
I think the tier system works better because you don’t have to squabble over similar characters. Plus it’s a fun quarantine distraction. My only question for Tagore was what else went into it. Did he ambush the custode was their any assistance?
Also I’d say the average chapter master sits between 3 and 4?
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Iron within, Iron without |
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2020/04/19 20:37:59
Subject: Who is considered the single greatest astarte in terms of pure combat ability
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Regular Dakkanaut
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I think Tyberos the Red Wake merits a mention. As does Vulkan. The Primarch not the other one.
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2020/04/19 20:51:27
Subject: Who is considered the single greatest astarte in terms of pure combat ability
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Been Around the Block
Chico
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Garvil Loken. He beat Lucius, Kharn. Was the best Luna Wolf with a sword. All that while self repressing psycic powers strong enough to be invited to join the founders of the Grey Knights. Never needed specialized wargear. Only a bolter an chainsword. He has shown he can raise his leavel up with his Cerberus mode. He survived Istavaan III. Spent many years, solo slaughtering Pleauge bearerors. Beat Samus with his bare hands. Strength of mind to resist the hard sell by Horus an Malcador.
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2020/04/20 04:24:47
Subject: Who is considered the single greatest astarte in terms of pure combat ability
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Crazed Spirit of the Defiler
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Loken also lost to Lucius and Abbadon. As for Kharn he didn’t win that fight so much as survive it. Take away the passing land raider and that was probably it for him. Not that any of those mark him as unskilled. He’s a solid tier 2 in my opinion. I also wouldn’t put to much into using a chainsword for his weapon. In the books chainswords carried by special characters are much more deadly. Technically Dorn carries “only” a chainsword.
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Iron within, Iron without |
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2020/04/20 06:21:29
Subject: Re:Who is considered the single greatest astarte in terms of pure combat ability
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Commander of the Mysterious 2nd Legion
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there's also no evidance Loken had psykic powers. it's possiable the founding leaders of the grey knights where not all universally psykers and instead where chosen for their ability to properly shape the chapter
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Opinions are not facts please don't confuse the two |
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2020/04/20 07:48:28
Subject: Who is considered the single greatest astarte in terms of pure combat ability
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Thane of Dol Guldur
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anyone mentioned amit?
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  Heresy World Eaters/Emperors Children 
Instagram: nagrakali_love_songs |
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2020/04/20 09:13:54
Subject: Who is considered the single greatest astarte in terms of pure combat ability
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Ultramarine Chaplain with Hate to Spare
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Kharn never misses.
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2020/04/20 11:47:36
Subject: Who is considered the single greatest astarte in terms of pure combat ability
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Androgynous Daemon Prince of Slaanesh
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As much as I hate most Space Wolves, I was expecting to see Ragnar show up sooner than he did. Pretty sure he’s supposed to be epic in a fight (maybe the only SW I don’t mind). Sigismund and Lucius for sure as well.
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Reality is a nice place to visit, but I'd hate to live there.
Manchu wrote:I'm a Catholic. We eat our God.
Due to work, I can usually only ship any sales or trades out on Saturday morning. Please trade/purchase with this in mind. |
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2020/04/20 12:40:49
Subject: Who is considered the single greatest astarte in terms of pure combat ability
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Pyro Pilot of a Triach Stalker
Somewhere over the rainbow, way up high
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My vote for the greatest *Astartes* character swordsman would undoubtedly be Sigismund in his prime. Guy could feasibly duel primarchs.
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Bedouin Dynasty:  10000 pts
The Silver Lances:  4000 pts
The Custodes Winter Watch 4000 pts
MajorStoffer wrote:
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Sternguard though, those guys are all about kicking ass. They'd chew bubble gum as well, but bubble gum is heretical. Only tau chew gum. |
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2020/04/20 15:31:08
Subject: Who is considered the single greatest astarte in terms of pure combat ability
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Perturbed Blood Angel Tactical Marine
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SIgismund sounds pretty badass, but I think Asterion Moloc deserves some consideration. I believe in the newest Valerian/Aleya books Valerian, a Custodes Shield Captain, wonders if he would be a able to beat Moloc. I'm not sure if we have metrics measuring Sigismund to a Shield-Captain, though
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In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move. - Douglas Adams
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2020/04/20 17:15:53
Subject: Who is considered the single greatest astarte in terms of pure combat ability
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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SirGunslinger wrote:SIgismund sounds pretty badass, but I think Asterion Moloc deserves some consideration. I believe in the newest Valerian/Aleya books Valerian, a Custodes Shield Captain, wonders if he would be a able to beat Moloc. I'm not sure if we have metrics measuring Sigismund to a Shield-Captain, though
Most standard shield captains would most certainly trounce most astartes and give the likes of sigismund a tough fight. Named custodes characters like trajann valoris would kick his ass as well as kharns and the other ones mentioned. Valoris stands a good chance even against abaddon nowadays when he is full of massive chaos steroids. Constantin Valdor, the first captain general of the custodes, on the other hand would beat all of the guys mentioned so far pretty easily, the only thing that surpasses him in martial prowess is a primarch....or the emperor, but he always kinda uses psychic hax, so he doesn't count anyway.
Asterion moloc is a contender for sure. He's a complete douchebag, but has the skills to back up his douchbaggery. Would he beat valerian? Maybe, really hard to say at this point, since we don't see him matched up against custodes in any other novel other than the regents shadow and in that book he only slaughters his way through heretics and imperial fists as far as i can remember. But in the book 3 minotaur astartes manage to kill a custodian guard, so assuming that moloc stands way above the standard minotaur space marine, I think its fair to say he could kill a standard custodian guard and stands at least a chance against a shield captain. My money would be on the shield captain though.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/04/20 17:34:55
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2020/04/20 21:25:58
Subject: Who is considered the single greatest astarte in terms of pure combat ability
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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I'm going to totally miss the point of the thread and say daemon Horus, as technically primarchs are just the ultimate space marines.
Real answer (non primarch), would probably Sigismund for loyalists.
The traitor legions have a few strong contenders. I'd probably pick Kharn the Betrayer.
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2020/04/20 21:52:02
Subject: Who is considered the single greatest astarte in terms of pure combat ability
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Grim Dark Angels Interrogator-Chaplain
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Thats a hard one but just off the top of my head.
Dueling, Sigismund, Corswain
Brutal combat, Abbadon, Kharn, Sevatar
Void warfare, Polux, Hellbrecht
Strategy, Azrael, Calgar
I mean how far do you want me to go.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/04/20 21:52:31
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2020/04/21 17:04:33
Subject: Re:Who is considered the single greatest astarte in terms of pure combat ability
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Regular Dakkanaut
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No he cheated under the rules of the duel .
If you agree to a boxing match and then tackle your opponent to break a stalemate you did'nt win.
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2020/04/21 19:09:05
Subject: Re:Who is considered the single greatest astarte in terms of pure combat ability
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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Of course he did, he's a Night Lord, they are too gakky, undisciplined and cowardly to win any other way and they are proud of it. This one is on Sigismund. He should have known the guy was going to cheat.
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2020/04/21 20:01:51
Subject: Re:Who is considered the single greatest astarte in terms of pure combat ability
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Grim Dark Angels Interrogator-Chaplain
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epronovost wrote:
Of course he did, he's a Night Lord, they are too gakky, undisciplined and cowardly to win any other way and they are proud of it. This one is on Sigismund. He should have known the guy was going to cheat.
And along the same vein in a real fight Sigismund would kill him in an instant as the rules of the dual no longer apply, its also why Kharn does not win his duels in the pits.
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2020/04/21 20:25:51
Subject: Re:Who is considered the single greatest astarte in terms of pure combat ability
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Enigmatic Chaos Sorcerer
The dark hollows of Kentucky
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 Formosa wrote:epronovost wrote:
Of course he did, he's a Night Lord, they are too gakky, undisciplined and cowardly to win any other way and they are proud of it. This one is on Sigismund. He should have known the guy was going to cheat.
And along the same vein in a real fight Sigismund would kill him in an instant as the rules of the dual no longer apply, its also why Kharn does not win his duels in the pits.
Whatever makes you guys feel better. As I said earlier: it all depends on who writes the story and who they're trying to put over.
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2020/04/22 13:43:38
Subject: Who is considered the single greatest astarte in terms of pure combat ability
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Nimble Glade Rider
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Sharrowkyn really ranks up there for pure combat ability imo, he dispatches Lucius as though he were a rabid dog, beats out Fabius (hardly that impressive I know), shoots a Primarch in the eye and evades an entire legion. I think he'd have a good chance against everyone listed here bar Primarchs. Overall probably Sigsimund or Sevatar though. In an honorable duel I'd call it for Sigsimund but in a no-holds barred fight I believe Sevatar would beat anyone else
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2020/04/22 13:48:24
Subject: Who is considered the single greatest astarte in terms of pure combat ability
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Inquisitorial Keeper of the Xenobanks
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Yazima wrote:Sharrowkyn really ranks up there for pure combat ability imo, he dispatches Lucius as though he were a rabid dog, beats out Fabius (hardly that impressive I know), shoots a Primarch in the eye and evades an entire legion. I think he'd have a good chance against everyone listed here bar Primarchs. Overall probably Sigsimund or Sevatar though. In an honorable duel I'd call it for Sigsimund but in a no-holds barred fight I believe Sevatar would beat anyone else
Yeah I'm surprised we are the only two people to talk about Sharowkyn, he is such an awesome warrior. Maybe the best of his legion
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2020/04/22 16:42:48
Subject: Re:Who is considered the single greatest astarte in terms of pure combat ability
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Been Around the Block
Chico
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BrianDavion wrote:there's also no evidance Loken had psykic powers. it's possiable the founding leaders of the grey knights where not all universally psykers and instead where chosen for their ability to properly shape the chapter
As of the Siege if Terra, people are flat out asking Garvil why he dose not use his psychic abilities more. Others telling him that he is warp touched. I know none if this matters to those who don't believe Loken is a psyker. They will just keep saying he never should have been resurrected. Should have stayed dead on Istvaan III.
His war gear is never mentioned as being note worthy. He might have a function set of war gear but most other warriors talked about here have a signature item. Terminator plate. A named weapon. Jump pack, something that sets them apart. Loken has a bolter and a chainsword. The two most common weapons a Astartes can have. They don't even complement each other like a bolt pistol would. He has started to use Rubio's sword a bit of late to be fair. Any special attribute you want to give his weapons is from you, not from the writers. He was a captain of the Luna Wolves. He would have had access to what ever item he wanted. As a member of the Mournival and then an agent of Malcador, this would have been even greater.
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2020/04/22 17:50:28
Subject: Re:Who is considered the single greatest astarte in terms of pure combat ability
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Ultramarine Librarian with Freaky Familiar
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 Lord Lorne Walkier wrote:As of the Siege if Terra, people are flat out asking Garvil why he dose not use his psychic abilities more.
I don't recall that happening? Others telling him that he is warp touched.
Warp-touched can mean many things - simply lucky or mad folks can be called to be 'warp-touched'. I know none if this matters to those who don't believe Loken is a psyker. They will just keep saying he never should have been resurrected. Should have stayed dead on Istvaan III.
His war gear is never mentioned as being note worthy. He might have a function set of war gear but most other warriors talked about here have a signature item. Terminator plate. A named weapon. Jump pack, something that sets them apart. Loken has a bolter and a chainsword. The two most common weapons a Astartes can have. They don't even complement each other like a bolt pistol would. He has started to use Rubio's sword a bit of late to be fair. Any special attribute you want to give his weapons is from you, not from the writers. He was a captain of the Luna Wolves. He would have had access to what ever item he wanted. As a member of the Mournival and then an agent of Malcador, this would have been even greater.
In 30k (and in many Space Marine novels, come to think of it), chainswords aren't as ineffective as they are on tabletop, to the point where a chainsword is functionally the same as any other weapon. It's not a case they're relic weaponry so much as it is that everything's a lot closer in strength. So, if he had things like power swords and plasma pistols, it wouldn't suddenly drastically change his combat ability.
Basically, Loken's equipment is generic, but it's probably better than basic gear (even if it's not like proper relics and suchlike), and in the fiction, the actual weapon someone carries is largely for flavour more than effectiveness. A bog standard chainsword in the hands of the hero is imbued with their plot armour, so to speak.
Point is, Loken's good, but Abaddon is better, and Lucius wipes the floor with Loken in their second duel when he knows the rules of the duel (I don't count Loken winning the first duel so much as I do him redefining the rules of the duel). He's not the best Astartes duellist or even in sheer combat power.
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They/them
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2020/04/25 05:22:46
Subject: Who is considered the single greatest astarte in terms of pure combat ability
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Fresh-Faced New User
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Mephiston.
He’s noted as being the best Blood Angel Swordsman and also their most powerful weapon. Physically, there isn’t a SM who is matching him. He’s a flying brick and is super fast. This is a guy who before his Primaris upgrade and other warp stuff from the current Darkness in the Blood, would beating hundreds of Orks alone with his bear hands.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/04/25 05:23:45
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2020/04/25 09:04:35
Subject: Who is considered the single greatest astarte in terms of pure combat ability
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Crazed Spirit of the Defiler
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Well Kharn might be a good candidate to match with Mephiston. And considering that axe he carries I think he could physically equal our favorite sci-fi vampire wizard. Plus given khorne’s better protection against mind bullets, he’d probably do well against him.
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Iron within, Iron without |
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2020/04/25 14:21:10
Subject: Who is considered the single greatest astarte in terms of pure combat ability
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Fresh-Faced New User
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 evil_kiwi_60 wrote:Well Kharn might be a good candidate to match with Mephiston. And considering that axe he carries I think he could physically equal our favorite sci-fi vampire wizard. Plus given khorne’s better protection against mind bullets, he’d probably do well against him.
Not even talking about mind bullets or using powers. I agree Kharn probably the closest imho, if he didn’t use them. But that thing that Mephiston...is next level. Dude is blowing up mountain sides in melee on some Dragon Ball Z level stuff, when his hits people. Lol.
This was before he was Primaris.
Feat wise I don’t know. And his Sword is powerful as well. Khorne would probably want Mephiston for himself. He wasn’t to take on Ka'bandha in Devastation of Baal either.
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2020/04/25 15:00:28
Subject: Who is considered the single greatest astarte in terms of pure combat ability
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Enigmatic Chaos Sorcerer
The dark hollows of Kentucky
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Umbras wrote: evil_kiwi_60 wrote:Well Kharn might be a good candidate to match with Mephiston. And considering that axe he carries I think he could physically equal our favorite sci-fi vampire wizard. Plus given khorne’s better protection against mind bullets, he’d probably do well against him.
Not even talking about mind bullets or using powers. I agree Kharn probably the closest imho, if he didn’t use them. But that thing that Mephiston...is next level. Dude is blowing up mountain sides in melee on some Dragon Ball Z level stuff, when his hits people. Lol.
This was before he was Primaris.
Feat wise I don’t know. And his Sword is powerful as well. Khorne would probably want Mephiston for himself. He wasn’t to take on Ka'bandha in Devastation of Baal either.
Is that really what we want in our 40k? Dragon Ball Z level writing?
Nope. No thanks. The Grimdark Future isn't supposed to be Marvel fething comics.
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2020/04/25 15:11:15
Subject: Who is considered the single greatest astarte in terms of pure combat ability
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Fresh-Faced New User
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 Gadzilla666 wrote:Umbras wrote: evil_kiwi_60 wrote:Well Kharn might be a good candidate to match with Mephiston. And considering that axe he carries I think he could physically equal our favorite sci-fi vampire wizard. Plus given khorne’s better protection against mind bullets, he’d probably do well against him.
Not even talking about mind bullets or using powers. I agree Kharn probably the closest imho, if he didn’t use them. But that thing that Mephiston...is next level. Dude is blowing up mountain sides in melee on some Dragon Ball Z level stuff, when his hits people. Lol.
This was before he was Primaris.
Feat wise I don’t know. And his Sword is powerful as well. Khorne would probably want Mephiston for himself. He wasn’t to take on Ka'bandha in Devastation of Baal either.
Is that really what we want in our 40k? Dragon Ball Z level writing?
Nope. No thanks. The Grimdark Future isn't supposed to be Marvel fething comics.
Stop it. I just described what he can do. Not that it’s DBZ writing, it’s not. You have ALL manner of crap that characters can do. Don’t make me list them. Just because you don’t like it, doesn’t invalidate my point. Unless you can provide feats that support your point?
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2020/04/25 15:36:46
Subject: Who is considered the single greatest astarte in terms of pure combat ability
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Enigmatic Chaos Sorcerer
The dark hollows of Kentucky
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Umbras wrote: Gadzilla666 wrote:Umbras wrote: evil_kiwi_60 wrote:Well Kharn might be a good candidate to match with Mephiston. And considering that axe he carries I think he could physically equal our favorite sci-fi vampire wizard. Plus given khorne’s better protection against mind bullets, he’d probably do well against him.
Not even talking about mind bullets or using powers. I agree Kharn probably the closest imho, if he didn’t use them. But that thing that Mephiston...is next level. Dude is blowing up mountain sides in melee on some Dragon Ball Z level stuff, when his hits people. Lol.
This was before he was Primaris.
Feat wise I don’t know. And his Sword is powerful as well. Khorne would probably want Mephiston for himself. He wasn’t to take on Ka'bandha in Devastation of Baal either.
Is that really what we want in our 40k? Dragon Ball Z level writing?
Nope. No thanks. The Grimdark Future isn't supposed to be Marvel fething comics.
Stop it. I just described what he can do. Not that it’s DBZ writing, it’s not. You have ALL manner of crap that characters can do. Don’t make me list them. Just because you don’t like it, doesn’t invalidate my point. Unless you can provide feats that support your point?
My point was that Dragon Ball Z type "feats" don't belong in 40k. I'm not saying Mephiston is a bad character or weak. 40k isn't bad anime. Or at least it shouldn't be.
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2020/04/25 16:09:06
Subject: Who is considered the single greatest astarte in terms of pure combat ability
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Crazed Spirit of the Defiler
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Mephiston is certainly a strong candidate but I don’t think there’s ever going to be definitive proof for any of these because they’re all fictional character. You could probably put Mephiston at that tier one level but the end result of him vs the field will depend on the writer.
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Iron within, Iron without |
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2020/04/25 16:27:34
Subject: Who is considered the single greatest astarte in terms of pure combat ability
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Enigmatic Chaos Sorcerer
The dark hollows of Kentucky
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evil_kiwi_60 wrote:Mephiston is certainly a strong candidate but I don’t think there’s ever going to be definitive proof for any of these because they’re all fictional character. You could probably put Mephiston at that tier one level but the end result of him vs the field will depend on the writer.
 Didn't we have this conversation about a page and a half ago? 
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2020/04/25 17:06:02
Subject: Re:Who is considered the single greatest astarte in terms of pure combat ability
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Fresh-Faced New User
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We can literally say that about anything with this debates. This is why feats are what matter.
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