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endlesswaltz123 wrote:
So any specific questions fire away.

What are your thoughts about intermittent fasting? I have conflicting feelings about it.

1. Doesn't it initiate your body putting away reserves to save for later? Building more fat?

or

2. You aren't intaking calories while still burning calories so it should work?

Thank you.

As I understand it, the body goes into starvation mode when you fast. It starts looking for ways to reduce energy use while maintaining as much stored energy as possible.

Muscle cells use WAY more energy than fat cells, and give a lot of protein when cannibalized. So the body starts scrapping muscle cells to reduce energy use, preserving fat for later.

This backfires when you stop fasting, as there are fewer muscle cells available to burn energy, but still plenty of fat cells to store excess...

That makes sense to me. I thought that was how it worked which is why I was confused about the popularity around the 16hr fasting thing.

My wife is trying to get me into this latest fad and I didn't know anything about it.

endlesswaltz123 wrote:

Calorie control is the ultimate one, and unfortunately that means tracking food, and mainly calories, if you get into it, it becomes habit and you start being able to guesstimate fairly accurately in the end but yeah, calorie control is king to lose weight.

I can't emphasize this enough. Best thing I ever did was actually start using and committing to tracking. It's a daily habit now. My peak weight was once almost 370, and it took me about 4 years to shed the first 130 or so, then I plateaued for a bit, but once I started seriously tracking everything (literally everything, lots of seemingly minor snacks can add up to hundreds of calories a day) I was able to drop from 240ish to 175ish in about 8 months. It absolutely sucked for those 8 months, but it gave me goals to hit each week, gave me a way better idea of what to eat and conceptualize calorie content of different foods and adjust as necessary, as well as illustrated how *much* exercise was required to burn off excess calories (that extra slice of pizza is gonna mean an extra two hours of brisk walking ).

Never tried to eat only, or stay away from, specific types of food, still had the weekend junk food of burgers, cake, ice cream, burritos, fries, pizza, gyro, pasta, etc, but portion control became real for the first time to me.

The big problem now is finding *accurate* measures of what goes in, particularly anything that isn't from a big chain that puts up all their nutrition info or doesn't have a label

 Jjohnso11 wrote:
That makes sense to me. I thought that was how it worked which is why I was confused about the popularity around the 16hr fasting thing.

My wife is trying to get me into this latest fad and I didn't know anything about it.

I'm not a doctor, so take anything I post with the appropriate amount of salt and consult an actual professional.

Again, as I understand, 16 hours isn't long enough for the body to go into starvation mode. So in theory this might be workable, so long as the period of fasting is timed appropriately. I expect it's a 'have a big breakfast at, say, 7 AM, a decent lunch around 11, light supper around 3, and then when the body rests overnight there's not a lot of excess calories wandering around to be stored as fat' kind of thing.

 Jjohnso11 wrote:

endlesswaltz123 wrote:
So any specific questions fire away.

What are your thoughts about intermittent fasting? I have conflicting feelings about it.

1. Doesn't it initiate your body putting away reserves to save for later? Building more fat?

or

2. You aren't intaking calories while still burning calories so it should work?

Thank you.

Starvation mode is garbage. It takes days to really start initiating. It's an absolute fad phrase that does not hold any scientific merit in such a small window.

It works because it ensures a calorie deficit. If you aren't eating for 16 hours a day, you aren't eating those small little snacks and biscuits (cookies) here and there that your forget about but absolutely add up.

Go and look how many calories are in 1x oreo (or any such thing) for example, then add up how many you could eat just for the sake of it... Those calories add up. Restricting your window to eat, restricts your ability to eat, and thus you eat less calories (in theory).

Some people put weight on with intermittent fasting, because they go crazy on calorie rich food.

Again, calorie deficit is key to lose weight.

In terms of during lock down food/cooking habits, one of the things the wife and I have done is far more experimenting.

Now, I'm not suggesting we're going so far abroad of our normal skillset/comfort zone. We are doing a lot more of things like making dish X, and one of our cookbooks makes dish Y look very similar. . .

One reason for stretching our skills, rather than outright pushing them is, obviously, if dinner goes wrong, we dont think it best to just pop out and get take out to solve that feth up, so we better make sure we do it right.

Did some home cooking, with Jambalaya.

Fairly healthy using chicken breast, though the Chorizo probably adds a fair amount of fat.

Lower salt chicken stock cubes as well. And brown rice instead of white.

Chorizo is fine. Fats aren't the enemy. Provided you're not eating it all day every day.

Have you considered getting into strongman?

Guys of your build tend to do well!

Nah, that’s like.....effort!

endlesswaltz123 wrote:
Some people put weight on with intermittent fasting, because they go crazy on calorie rich food.

Again, calorie deficit is key to lose weight.

Indeed, for all the research done, that I know of, it still all comes down, in some way, to CICO (calories in, calories out).

If you are taking in more calories than going out, you will gain fat. Like you say, you need a calorie deficit to actually lose weight (i.e. burn fat). You actually could lose inches though and gain weight in cases though where you are building muscle though, I think. Still, that is on the right track though.

Again, as you say, it is really trivially easy to eat 1,000 calories of cookies as a snack, it is much less likely that anyone would spontaneously eat 1,000 calories of broccoli though. So, if fasting helps you stay within limits and on track, I think it is likely fine. The key is staying on track, not snacking and so on. A macro plan is also good, if you are also exercising, so you make sure you are getting enough protein for muscle building, I think.

In the end though, if you somehow ate 6,000 calories a day of cauliflower, you'd gain weight if you only do enough to burn 2,000 calories . Just that no one is really likely to do that, because cauliflower is not calorie dense and also, does not really (to most people) taste nearly as good as cookies.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Nah, that’s like.....effort!

Sort of I guess? But it's basically just picking up heavy stuff. It's fun effort, not lame effort like running or something.

Picking up heavy stuff makes you feel awesome and gives you a sort of primal connection to our ancestors!

 queen_annes_revenge wrote:

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Nah, that’s like.....effort!

Sort of I guess? But it's basically just picking up heavy stuff. It's fun effort, not lame effort like running or something.

Picking up heavy stuff makes you feel awesome and gives you a sort of primal connection to our ancestors!

I was never one for general "exercise" at school or after. Never being that into sports most sports lessons were fairly "pointless" to me in so much as I didn't want too nor had any hope of being on a team so much of the training just held no interest.

I find quite a few people are the same and it makes sense - the body in general is lazy and if you don't have a reason to do it many won't bother exercising. Even if you know that its healthy and good for you at a logical level, for many it still doesn't penetrate that far into influencing our behaviour. Or if it does it only lasts in a very short window. A burst of activity, sweat and pain and then the reward "being fitter" is so intangible since you're likely feeling very unfit and not like you've achived so its easy to lose motivation - and go back to the more comfortable.


So to me just "picking up heavy stuff" is not only boring, but it holds no value. There's no end game.


I didn't really find any end-game interest until I did some conservation work. There I had a goal, I had work and you don't notice the exercise you're doing because its just part of the work. You also get to stop at the end of the day, turn around and you can see a tangible reward in what you've achieved for the day. Furthermore because it was voluntary work the majority of people around you are also keen and enthusiastic, which rubs off on your own attitude. It's not like the D-team in sports where everyone is mostly in the "we don't want to do it" camp and that thus reinforces that attitude.

So what I'm getting at is that if general exercise isn't your thing then you've got to find a way to connect with it. Basically to trick yourself into exercising without realising. I think then, once you've got a reason to have a healthier and fitter body; to perform better. Then suddenly spending time at the gym starts to make more sense. Even if you're just lifting a few rocks(weights) at home you're now seeing an end goal. You're working toward something and that exercise is helping you along. Sure the exercise alone hasn't got anything you've "done" at the end, but you've already seen a general improvement in the work you do - that's your motivation.



So you've got to go out there (appreciate that during corona times this is darn hard) and find some connection. Perhaps its conversation work; perhaps its an outdoor activity like photography. Perhaps its hiking or exploring around your area; rowing, sailing, kayaking swimming, riding, running, bog swimming, mud runs, etc... , . Whatever it is I think finding a connection point is critical for anyone to succeed. Once you've got that connection and that positive reinforcement in the short term; the long term changes are much easier to adopt and (importantly) maintain. Don't be afraid to experiment, there's loads of options out there in the world.

Well, in case worse comes to worst, of if you want to try natural foods for free, did you know dandelions are edible and nutritious?

https://gardentherapy.ca/superfood-dandelions/

I can't say i recommend it but hey, if things get bad you've probably got access to these somewhere near you.

And honestly, who can't grow dandelions?

I've lost about a kilo a week on average during lockdown. The secret is not snacking, and healthy meals controlled by my wife and daughter. We eat a very good variety of recipes ranging from Japanese to modern British/European. I let myself down by drinking too much alcohol. If I cut that I would lose faster.

I'm probably getting more exercise than before, because I have to stand all day as I don't have room for a sit-down desk. I try to walk 30 minutes everyday. It's hard on work days because I'm working so long, longer than before the crisis, actually. At weekends and holidays I can get a longer walk with the family. I am lucky to live in a market town with country walks in easy reach.

I miss my bike. I had to leave it in Oxford when we were sent to work from home. It's difficult to pick up by car because it's a big old ex-post office delivery bike with huge cargo panniers. I hate to think of it sitting there in the quad, getting rusty. Maybe I should disassemble it and bring it back. We're going to be working from home until September, probably.

Like Mad Dog I'm a beefy guy. The BMI calculator says I should get down to 72 kg which is about 12 stone. I haven't weighed that little since I was a child. And I used to be super fit and hunky as a teenager because I rowed at school.

I'm at 103 kg right now. My target is to get to 100, then reassess things. I am almost 58 years old, so I'm allowed to be a bit plumper than you young guys. It's not like I need to get my body beach ready to cruise for chicks.

But I would like to be healthy and do more sports.

The food my family eats is we always have a fruit and veg smoothy at breakfast, together with a slice of toast and laver bread or maybe avocado, and an egg, fried or poached or perhaps omelette or scrambled. Maybe some melted cheese, or bacon or a sausage. My wife's a fishitarian so she has smoked salmon. Sometimes we add fried mushrooms.

We don't have lunch. We have a snack of yoghurt and fruit, with a bit of biscuit and a small piece of dark chocolate. My daughter sometimes bakes microwave cake recipes, which is nice, or maybe we have a scone or something like that, bought in.

Dinner is much more varied. A couple of nights a week it will be full on Japanese. The other nights it's stuff like salad with some extra veg, or braised veg, and a selection of salume, a little bit of cheese, a main course of pasta or risotto or just fish or meat with maybe braised lentils or potato salad or coleslaw.

Sometimes we cheat and use a ready-made pizza. Sometimes we make our own curry.

When I read all this back now, I realise I actually have a really good diet with a lot of variety, plenty of fruit and veg and so on.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
When I can work up the effort, I’m pretty good rattling them pots and pans, so it’s not lack of ability. And when it comes to ready meal type options? Looking at the nutrition labels is pretty scary!

One strategy that myself and my ex-wife used to do was to batch cook the basics on a Sunday afternoon. This was for lunches during the week, rather than dinner, as cooking dinner whilst I sorted the kids out was her daily time out, but I digress.

We'd whip up a large batch of rice and/or quinoa (or occasionally I'd chop up potatoes or sweet potatoes and make chips), and to use as a base, and cook up a bunch of different vegetables (eg onions, sprouts, cauliflower, broccoli, peppers/capsicum, carrots). Then each day we'd mix it up by adding a third ingredient, and some healthy condiments (eg saurkraut, proper tomato relish) - the third ingredient might be some roast chicken (we'd have one at the weekend and use it for us and the kids at various times during the week), eggs, fish (again perhaps by cooking extra for dinner, sometimes tinned if it's decent quality), flavoured tofu, sausage or burger (sometimes meat, sometimes vegan) etc etc. Could also throw in things like pine nuts or olives to a particular meal if it went with it (or go Greek salad style if we fancied it and had the extra 5 mins to use those veggies instead).

Soup and lasagne we also did regularly as the kids would eat them too, so we didn't have to eat so many portions it became boring.

Since this 'rona outbreak, I started eating only one meal a day. Works good for me.

Before, I use to eat twice a day (no breakfast) but the lack of exercise and moving around felt like I had too much energy (sleeping less hours and stuff) and put on 2-3 kg in the first few weeks.
Switched to concentrating all food into one meal (albeit a bit less quantity) and seems to have regulated everything. Back to the usual sleeping schedule and the extra-kg are gone.
I didn't change the diet itself, I still eat absolutely all types of food. Even some sweets from time to time (restricting-food diets miss all the fun!). And always drinking loads of water (I tend to not like alcohol or sugar drinks).

Discovered Marmite Rice Cakes.......

These are a god send. Flavourful, and crunchy. Satisfying to eat, with little nutritional worries. Unless you don’t like Marmite. But I do!

Most americans are not exactly sure what to do with vegemite or marmite, and are trying it (usually) for the first time.

Now imagine you spread it like jam, or peanutbutter, and then took a big old bite of it? That's I think how the stuff gets a really sketchy reputation.

Also, look up mushrooms marmite, which I reckon would be fairly helathy as snacks go.

Get some toast. Put some butter on it. Then some Marmite.

Some like a scrape of it, I like to be able to see teeth indentation!

I prefer it on toasted crumpet. Again, start with butter (or veggie spread, my preference), then slather on the Marmite. Luvverly stuff!

It can also be used to add some punch to stews.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Just looked up Marmite Mushrooms.

Definitely, 100% willing to give that a bash. Though I’d swap out the butter for vegetable or Olive oil. Guess the key is to brown up the mushrooms.

If you want a bit more flavour in your gravy brown sauce works well. Just a little squirt works well.


As for Marmite - I believe the proper use for it is shipping it back to the colonies along with any other heretical foods like vegimite

Get out my thread, you!

Marmite is properly one of YOUR indigenous cusine items, from a time when british cooking wasn't yet all entirely indian curry, and it was a big item in the UK WWII kitchen. I believe it was even an ingredient in lord woolton pie.

If you really want "healthy" eating? Look up the rationing scheme they used during WWII and just do a month following it as if it were still in force. Many old recipes exist. From what I remember reading, it was very well thought out and balanced.

Dukeofstuff wrote:

If you really want "healthy" eating? Look up the rationing scheme they used during WWII and just do a month following it as if it were still in force. Many old recipes exist. From what I remember reading, it was very well thought out and balanced.

Rationing wasn't exactly built on health but more on just what there was left to eat. Portions were smaller not out of health considerations but because there just wasn't anything else. Indeed whilst being overweight wasn't typically an issue, the opposite was likely more of a potential risk depending on your area and the time during the war.

Also there were a lto of things replaced for other things in ingredients not based on health, but again, based on what it was possible to get .



I'd say that cooking books pre-war would likely be a better bet if you want older recipies..

feth. Don't mention Marmite. The Kilkrazy household ran out this last weekend and I haven't been able to obtain resupply.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Desperate times we live in.

ugh, marmite. might aswell spread the bitumen from the road on your toast. absolutely rats.

Marmite is ace! End of

Continuing to move forward healthier scran. Note not necessarily health food. Just swapping out say, skimmed milk for full fat, reducing my salt intake etc.

Simple garden salad for lunch, tarted up with sliced chicken, croutons, some bean sprout things and french dressing (not too much, and a lower fat one)

Also swapped to brown bread.

Expect it’ll take a bit to show the benefits, but if nothing else it makes me feel better about my eating habits!

Small steps. I definitely don't eat as well as I could, but as a family we eat better than most in this day and age.


I've got a sweet tooth though. It's no good for me.

Indeedy.

For instance? Nachos tonight. No sour cream or avocado (can’t stand either), and a lower fat cheddar.

Still not good for me, but better then it could be.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Indeedy.

For instance? Nachos tonight. No sour cream or avocado (can’t stand either), and a lower fat cheddar.

Still not good for me, but better then it could be.

Little steps towards a goal still get you there.