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 Ancestral Hamster wrote:
That was a pretty good read, Kid Kyoto. The honored servants strata is something writers need to keep in mind, as the 1% need trustworthy guards. Can't hire the lowest of the low since they'll probably yell "eat the rich!" and kill their new employer. Sure they'll be killed shortly there after, but they get some payback. So even on the worst worlds, as long as there is a 1%, there will be a small level of trusted servants who get good food, some time off, and can raise a family. They'd be the guards, personal doctors, factors, mentats, etcetera. (The various inquisition-centered novels I've read have a number of trusted retainers who have served the Noble House of <Whatever> for 12 generations.)

Glad it was of use!

I need to rewrite it one day, there's some good stuff in there but a lot of awkward phrasing too. And I've lived in 2 more countries so there's no doubt new observations to add

One idea I had in mind talking about 'trusted servants' was the split in Imperial China between the Mandarins and the Eunuchs. The Mandarins were scholar-officials who'd worked their whole lives to serve and advise the Emperor. Eunuchs were slaves who controlled the Emperor's household. So Mandarins found themselves in the odd position of having to kiss up to slaves, and sometimes the Emperor would make a Eunuch a high official. I was introduced to the idea by the story of Cheng-Ho/Zheng He, Admiral, Muslim and Eunuch of the Ming Dynasty.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zheng_He

And that would make such an awesome 40k story...

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:

 Ancestral Hamster wrote:
That was a pretty good read, Kid Kyoto. The honored servants strata is something writers need to keep in mind, as the 1% need trustworthy guards. Can't hire the lowest of the low since they'll probably yell "eat the rich!" and kill their new employer. Sure they'll be killed shortly there after, but they get some payback. So even on the worst worlds, as long as there is a 1%, there will be a small level of trusted servants who get good food, some time off, and can raise a family. They'd be the guards, personal doctors, factors, mentats, etcetera. (The various inquisition-centered novels I've read have a number of trusted retainers who have served the Noble House of <Whatever> for 12 generations.)

Glad it was of use!

I need to rewrite it one day, there's some good stuff in there but a lot of awkward phrasing too. And I've lived in 2 more countries so there's no doubt new observations to add

One idea I had in mind talking about 'trusted servants' was the split in Imperial China between the Mandarins and the Eunuchs. The Mandarins were scholar-officials who'd worked their whole lives to serve and advise the Emperor. Eunuchs were slaves who controlled the Emperor's household. So Mandarins found themselves in the odd position of having to kiss up to slaves, and sometimes the Emperor would make a Eunuch a high official. I was introduced to the idea by the story of Cheng-Ho/Zheng He, Admiral, Muslim and Eunuch of the Ming Dynasty.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zheng_He

And that would make such an awesome 40k story...

MIng dynasty eunuchs were also in charge of the Eastern Depot, which was the secret police. The whole problem was factionalization. The Ming Emperors also distrusted the scholar-officials because they themselves had internal factions, so the eunuch and secret police were meant to give honest reports and be a parallel system for bypassing the bureaucracy. Of course the problem was the eunuchs and the Eastern Depot also became factionalized and corrupt. What qualified as corruption really depended on whose side you were on.


One thing though about the Imperium's economy, is that it is not like a modern economy despite the presence of modern elements like financial markets and money. Those kinds of things seem to occur at the institutional level. Modern economies are also very driven by middle class consumption of consumer goods and services, whereas the middle class in 40K seems to be vanishingly small, sandwiched between the nobles and the heaving masses of the working class. The nobles' consumption is relatively tiny and in the realm of hand-crafted luxury goods rather than mass produced stuff. The working classes subsist on basic necessities with only the most meager of superfluous goods and services (and even that is probably just to let off societal steam and prevent rebellion).

The mandarin and eunuchs example is a good one, and one I have read about before, yet it did not come to mind. My thoughts were more influenced by Edo era Japan (The period of the Tokugawa Shogunate). A samurai can kill any commoner for "insolence" with impunity, and insolence was often broadly defined. (A famous example that was circulated at the time was of a maid who was killed since she spilled water on a samurai's sleeve.) Yet some commoners would have immunity as they'd be trusted servants. A master swordsmith most certainly, the lord's favorite geisha possibly. Kill the former, and the samurai responsible would have to commit seppuku: there were more samurai than skilled swordsmiths. With a geisha, she's not that important, but the lord could humiliate the samurai by having him perform a meaningless duty like guarding a rock. That samurai would realize he's killed his career prospects: he could leave, but going ronin is worst, as that makes him outcast and he has no legal protection.

Speaking of eunuchs and corruption, the Byzantine Empire also used eunuchs, though to a lesser degree. Those Byzantine emperors who relied on eunuchs soon had similar problems in their government as the Chinese.

Have heard about Zheng He before, and agree it was a remarkable story. Then the faction in court who opposed the admiral's faction buried or downplayed the expeditions. That could easily fit in the 40k universe.

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:
One idea I had in mind talking about 'trusted servants' was the split in Imperial China between the Mandarins and the Eunuchs. The Mandarins were scholar-officials who'd worked their whole lives to serve and advise the Emperor. Eunuchs were slaves who controlled the Emperor's household. So Mandarins found themselves in the odd position of having to kiss up to slaves, and sometimes the Emperor would make a Eunuch a high official. I was introduced to the idea by the story of Cheng-Ho/Zheng He, Admiral, Muslim and Eunuch of the Ming Dynasty.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zheng_He

And that would make such an awesome 40k story...

 Ancestral Hamster wrote:
The mandarin and eunuchs example is a good one, and one I have read about before, yet it did not come to mind. My thoughts were more influenced by Edo era Japan (The period of the Tokugawa Shogunate). A samurai can kill any commoner for "insolence" with impunity, and insolence was often broadly defined. (A famous example that was circulated at the time was of a maid who was killed since she spilled water on a samurai's sleeve.) Yet some commoners would have immunity as they'd be trusted servants. A master swordsmith most certainly, the lord's favorite geisha possibly. Kill the former, and the samurai responsible would have to commit seppuku: there were more samurai than skilled swordsmiths. With a geisha, she's not that important, but the lord could humiliate the samurai by having him perform a meaningless duty like guarding a rock. That samurai would realize he's killed his career prospects: he could leave, but going ronin is worst, as that makes him outcast and he has no legal protection.

Speaking of eunuchs and corruption, the Byzantine Empire also used eunuchs, though to a lesser degree. Those Byzantine emperors who relied on eunuchs soon had similar problems in their government as the Chinese.

Have heard about Zheng He before, and agree it was a remarkable story. Then the faction in court who opposed the admiral's faction buried or downplayed the expeditions. That could easily fit in the 40k universe.

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:
One idea I had in mind talking about 'trusted servants' was the split in Imperial China between the Mandarins and the Eunuchs. The Mandarins were scholar-officials who'd worked their whole lives to serve and advise the Emperor. Eunuchs were slaves who controlled the Emperor's household. So Mandarins found themselves in the odd position of having to kiss up to slaves, and sometimes the Emperor would make a Eunuch a high official. I was introduced to the idea by the story of Cheng-Ho/Zheng He, Admiral, Muslim and Eunuch of the Ming Dynasty.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zheng_He

And that would make such an awesome 40k story...

It is easy with hindsight to criticize the ending of the naval expeditions as an example of isolationist and close minded thinking that set China on the path of stagnation. However from the perspective of the time, these were seen as an extravagant expenditure that produced little benefit aside from a few curiosities for the emperor. Cutting unnecessary palace expenses and personal consumption was a traditional virtue signaling act done by emperors so the following emperor stopped the expeditions, aligning with the officials who advocated a focus on agriculture which was seen as the basis for the economy and as an area that would benefit the masses. In a way they were right, as the Ming dynasty saw several agricultural innovations that boosted production, leading to a population boom.

Get some of the dark heresy RPG material, it had a lot to say on this matter.