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I think Sisters in the trailer was less GW wanting to ease their fears at having the most out of date codex (since most o the codex are all darn new anyway); but more them really focusing on SOB marketing. GW has invested perhaps double or more their normal resources and investment into the SOB revamp. Most armies get half or less what Sisters got in new kits and updates in one go when they get updated.

At this point SoB is a new faction more or less since all the models were aging metals that very few were buying except for a diehard few.

GW has been knocking it out of the park in AoS with producing new armies at a similar size so I don't think there is anything special about the Sisters except that they are building on a legacy whereas Ossiarch Bonereapers, Idoneth Deepkin, Lumineth Realm Lords, and such are not.

GW actually has a very impressive production line when it comes to churning out new models and factions. Just looking at the current 9th edition release is a good example as they are releasing it in the same year as the Sisters, Lumineth Realm Lords, Sons of Behemat, and probably more as we are only half-way through the year.

GW are adopting a very lazy but common media trend which is to spend more time telling customers their product is amazing than telling them what it is.

Click bait headlines have wormed their way into marketing. I’m suprised it doesn’t say 9 things you need to know about the new addition of Warhammer 40k, number 6 will amaze you.

They also want us to think warhammer community is not run by them.

mrFickle wrote:
GW are adopting a very lazy but common media trend which is to spend more time telling customers their product is amazing than telling them what it is.
Click bait headlines have wormed their way into marketing. I’m suprised it doesn’t say 9 things you need to know about the new addition of Warhammer 40k, number 6 will amaze you.

They also want us to think warhammer community is not run by them.

This kind of marketing usually relies on fans shouting down the opposing voices as well. Which is happening as well.
Its pretty much a game trailer, even if it was a bit gak in its tale.
But im guessing that this will all lead to some sort of kids half show or moofie. Cause well all know they wont have the balls to go in heads first, instead of dipping their toes.

This isn't a GW exclusive thing. Like I find E3 for video games just a total cringe fest

I wonder. Is GW getting "more cringe worthy" or have we just become older and perhaps more jaded.

It got a lot of people hyped and excited, so probably did exactly what it set out to do. If it didn’t tickle your pickle that’s fine, but that’s just like, your opinion maaaan. I guess it’s hard to promote Warhammer straight-faced without some people finding it cringeworthy, but hey, what’s new? If you don’t like the marketing just don’t consume it, I guess.

 Overread wrote:
I wonder. Is GW getting "more cringe worthy" or have we just become older and perhaps more jaded.

probably the ammount of pricehikes and wierd balance so yep definately more jaded.

Have GW declared that it broke the internet yet?

I’m. Not saying there’s nothing to be excited about but I don’t need GW to tell me how amazing something is, that’s for the customer to decide. I find it patronising and it puts me off wanting to look at the marketing media. Frankly I haven’t seen anything earth shattering and as opposed to 9th edition it feels more like a relaunch but let’s see what else comes.

JohnnyHell wrote:It got a lot of people hyped and excited, so probably did exactly what it set out to do. If it didn’t tickle your pickle that’s fine, but that’s just like, your opinion maaaan. I guess it’s hard to promote Warhammer straight-faced without some people finding it cringeworthy, but hey, what’s new? If you don’t like the marketing just don’t consume it, I guess.

Yeah, that's how I'm seeing it.

There's plenty of people in my warhammer spheres who really enjoyed the reveals and trailer, and are generally hyped - and a lot of these people shared my reluctance for a new edition. Just because one person finds the trailer or WarCom to be cringey, that doesn't make them superior to someone who really enjoys the new stuff, and can enjoy them as ads which poke a bit of fun here and there.

If you like it, you like it. If you don't, you don't. Both are fine, but I'd be lying if I didn't get a certain sense of "hah, you actually ENJOYED those GW ads?" from some of the posts here. Of course, that could just be my perception.

Grey40k wrote:
Advertise the product, not some illusion.

There is no cringe here - it is the product. The illusion is actually the embodiment of what I imagine when shuffling models along the table or painting them and putting life into them.

FWIW I thought that "cinematic" trailer video was rubbish. Superbly generic CGI, morning cartoon worthy at best. But then again. I've always appreciated Forge World's depiction of 40K wayy more than GW's. GW stuff is a bit "GI Joe" sometimes, I prefer the more "real" vision of FW. Its supposed to be grimdark, not Adam West Batman dark.

Interestingly, I always thought the renaissance era insipired "propaganda" illustrations in their books is much more grimdark than GW's miniature marketing.. its almost like they are trolling themselves at times *shrug*

 Overread wrote:
I wonder. Is GW getting "more cringe worthy" or have we just become older and perhaps more jaded.

Hey, at least this shows more the actual game and miniatures. Even if it is an ad for kids and just meh overall.

Each to their own, I was put off by the tone of all those war com entries around the trailer.

I dislike marketing that is too removed from the product; e.g 99% of car commercials.

I liked better white dwarf when it was a bit more a hobby display and less a of a long ad.

It is a matter of taste so no rights or wrongs, I guess.

That’s what this forum I’d for, though, isn’t it? Sharing thoughts?


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 Sgt_Smudge wrote:

JohnnyHell wrote:It got a lot of people hyped and excited, so probably did exactly what it set out to do. If it didn’t tickle your pickle that’s fine, but that’s just like, your opinion maaaan. I guess it’s hard to promote Warhammer straight-faced without some people finding it cringeworthy, but hey, what’s new? If you don’t like the marketing just don’t consume it, I guess.

Yeah, that's how I'm seeing it.

There's plenty of people in my warhammer spheres who really enjoyed the reveals and trailer, and are generally hyped - and a lot of these people shared my reluctance for a new edition. Just because one person finds the trailer or WarCom to be cringey, that doesn't make them superior to someone who really enjoys the new stuff, and can enjoy them as ads which poke a bit of fun here and there.

If you like it, you like it. If you don't, you don't. Both are fine, but I'd be lying if I didn't get a certain sense of "hah, you actually ENJOYED those GW ads?" from some of the posts here. Of course, that could just be my perception.

That’s just the nature of opinion but you are right it comes off judgey the way I phrased it. The issue for me was not so much the trailer but the way war com followed up on it.

Thought the trailer was quite generic, nothing noteworthy at a technical or artistic level. But the astonishingly hyperbolic tone they used to refer to it reminded me of those doctors in western movies that sell “miraculous drugs” (if you are old enough you’ll remember where those draw inspiration from). I find that tone insulting coming from someone trying to sell me something. Biggest reveal ever! Everything is best, the best edition, the amazing internet blowing trailer!! To me, this doesn’t inspire trust. Same way that what they teach their sales force has kept me out GW stores for two decades.

What triggered me was not one misguided post or ad, but the way they interact with their customers. The trailer and it’s coverage are just prime examples of it.

White Dwarf has *always* been a long ad that you pay for. Always.

I guess you set yourself up for a fall in thinking that they wouldn’t hype and be super posi about a new edition. It’s fine to not like what they put out but equally I’m not sure why anyone expect anything other then rah rah Warhammer is great. They purposefully left people to find the models on the linked site, as that generates social media interest and allowed them to then ‘reveal’ them piecemeal and string out the content. It was pretty new media savvy if I’m honest. Generated lots of social noise and allows them to drip feed for weeks while they’ve a largely captive audience.

 JohnnyHell wrote:
White Dwarf has *always* been a long ad that you pay for. Always.

I guess you set yourself up for a fall in thinking that they wouldn’t hype and be super posi about a new edition. It’s fine to not like what they put out but equally I’m not sure why anyone expect anything other then rah rah Warhammer is great. They purposefully left people to find the models on the linked site, as that generates social media interest and allowed them to then ‘reveal’ them piecemeal and string out the content. It was pretty new media savvy if I’m honest. Generated lots of social noise and allows them to drip feed for weeks while they’ve a largely captive audience.

There are degrees to things, white dwarf 20-25 years ago didn't read the same as today's.

I stay away from most of their marketing, much like I stay away from their shops.

I do not believe that the piecemeal thing was "savy"; some hobby forums / blogs I follow just wrote short statements saying they'd cover the new edition when there was actually something worth covering.

I have a healthy amount of miniatures to pain, there is no point on theory crafting lists now, and I wanted to check out a bit more black library stuff. I cannot speak for everyone else, but I am not sure they have much of a "captive audience" in the way they'd like.

Finally, I dislike obvious attempts at "gaming" us with their communication; tell me about the new rules and discuss them in Q&A (which they kind of did, but still not really), show me the new sculpts (one at a time to generate hype is "gamey"); give me the actual merits of your work and why it deserves my hard earned money.

I'm sure 6 months ago I'd have loved the trailer but Astartes has really spoiled me. The production value was leagues ahead of this video and ended up finding it fairly disappointing

yeah, well there is a difference between what a normal person, even paid for it can do, and what someone obsessed with something will. You are not going to get workers, outside of china etc, that are willing to work 10+ hours a day for 365 days non stop. It is like that with everything. I just want to finish school on time, do and train as much as I am being told. And when schools were closed , I didn't train at all. There are two brothers at my school though, who did train with their dad each and every day. And even on normal school days they would train with him after school. They will get far in sports, unless they get injured.

Grey40k wrote:

 Overread wrote:
I wonder. Is GW getting "more cringe worthy" or have we just become older and perhaps more jaded.

Hey, at least this shows more the actual game and miniatures.

The Twitch stream and the WarCom website show off the minis. Do we complain about video game cinematics for not showing us the gameplay directly? No, because we usually get a separate trailer for that.

 Sgt_Smudge wrote:
There's plenty of people in my warhammer spheres who really enjoyed the reveals and trailer, and are generally hyped - and a lot of these people shared my reluctance for a new edition. Just because one person finds the trailer or WarCom to be cringey, that doesn't make them superior to someone who really enjoys the new stuff, and can enjoy them as ads which poke a bit of fun here and there.

If you like it, you like it. If you don't, you don't. Both are fine, but I'd be lying if I didn't get a certain sense of "hah, you actually ENJOYED those GW ads?" from some of the posts here. Of course, that could just be my perception.

That’s just the nature of opinion but you are right it comes off judgey the way I phrased it. The issue for me was not so much the trailer but the way war com followed up on it.

Thought the trailer was quite generic, nothing noteworthy at a technical or artistic level.

I enjoyed it. Showcased Sisters in a more prominent light, was a pretty solid animation by all standards (it's not Astartes, but it's leagues better than other source filmmaker animations), and it got me excited.

But the astonishingly hyperbolic tone they used to refer to it reminded me of those doctors in western movies that sell “miraculous drugs” (if you are old enough you’ll remember where those draw inspiration from).

Selling miracle drugs can literally be the difference between life and death. These are plastic models. I'm not seeing anything like "your life is incomplete without this!!" or "this is EXACTLY what you need!!" - all I'm seeing is "hey, we've made this cool stuff, and a brand new edition that we think will be better - but hey, if you want to play other editions, you're more than welcome to do that as well!"

What triggered me was not one misguided post or ad, but the way they interact with their customers. The trailer and it’s coverage are just prime examples of it.

And on the other hand, seeing the comments people make back towards GW makes me sick to my core. Sure, GW can be a bit too saccharine-sweet at times, but some of the fans are so full of vitriol, I wonder why they even bother calling themselves that. Out of a seemingly endless void of anger, or misguided optimism, I'll take the optimism.

Grey40k wrote:I do not believe that the piecemeal thing was "savy"; some hobby forums / blogs I follow just wrote short statements saying they'd cover the new edition when there was actually something worth covering.

Whereas the hobby channels I follow are more than happy to take the info they get, and discuss that. After all, isn't that what Dakka's doing right now?
Breaking up the release isn't always a bad thing, so long as it's got that momentum going. And in some cases (Sisters), it can be incredibly beneficial to make it aware early, if only just to say "yes, we're working on this, prepare yourself!"
Would you have rather been told about 9th immediately on release date, with no prior warning, or been told in advance during when it was being put into motion, so you could plan purchases adequately?

I cannot speak for everyone else, but I am not sure they have much of a "captive audience" in the way they'd like.

Speak for yourself, but I'm seeing plenty of people in that "captive audience" bracket.

Finally, I dislike obvious attempts at "gaming" us with their communication; tell me about the new rules and discuss them in Q&A (which they kind of did, but still not really)

That will come in more detail. They did with 8th, so I'm expecting the same for 9th. But they'll do it closer to the date, not right now. Be patient.

show me the new sculpts (one at a time to generate hype is "gamey");

Well, sorry, but hype generation is important for advertising. Teaser trailers, marketing materials, etc - I'd rather they spread it out, if the release isn't coming within the month.

give me the actual merits of your work and why it deserves my hard earned money.

They have shown me the merits of it, and they'll have my hard-earned money. But for you, I advise be patient, and wait for it to come closer to release. They'll give you the information you want. None of us can buy it right now, so we're all in the same boat of waiting.

I am always surprised when I see customers defending certain kinds of marketing; you do realize that the marketing you are describing is an attempt to manipulate what would otherwise be more rational / meditated choices?

This is why countries pass legislation on publicity on tv at different moments of the day; because we recognize that a lot of marketing is manipulative and we do not want to expose the most vulnerable to it.

I see this hysterical hype building as something ugly because I recognize the manipulation attempt. If they showed my a sculptor from their design teams talk lovingly about his or her creation I would take Their enthusiasm more positively.

Honestly, beyond this I don’t think there is much to discuss. You already resorted to the “bad” fan argument and we are in page 3. Yikes!

Grey40k wrote:

Tyel wrote:


I don't know really. Yes its a bit annoying, I'm a jaded non-hype person. But marketing is marketing - and if people are talking about it, even if in ways like this, I imagine someone at GW is thrilled.
There isn't much point going "yeah guys, 9th is coming, its probably gonna suck, who even plays this game anyway...."
.

I don't know what to tell you, I wasn't aware that this uberhyped approach to marketing had become the norm.

Wait, what? A trailer and a few community articles about the trailer is 'uberhyped?'
It doesn't even touch what most computer game companies do routinely. For months on end.
This was... a weekend, and they've largely gone back to other things.

You're overreacting. Uber-overreacting.

Grey40k wrote:I am always surprised when I see customers defending certain kinds of marketing; you do realize that the marketing you are describing is an attempt to manipulate what would otherwise be more rational / meditated choices?

Again with the "if you enjoyed it, you're just being irrational"?
I'm not saying that's what you might believe, but you're certainly implying that if I enjoyed it, I wasn't being rational and am making an impulsive, manipulated decision.

This is why countries pass legislation on publicity on tv at different moments of the day; because we recognize that a lot of marketing is manipulative and we do not want to expose the most vulnerable to it.

They do. And this hasn't breached any of those rules, I'd bet.

I see this hysterical hype building as something ugly because I recognize the manipulation attempt. If they showed my a sculptor from their design teams talk lovingly about his or her creation I would take Their enthusiasm more positively.

"I'm too smart to enjoy it, if you enjoyed it, you're dumb and just being manipulated!"

How am I not supposed to take that as a veiled insult?

Also, they *will* have someone from design talk about it. Give it time. They're going to have several more streams/interviews where they will go more in depth. Again, give it time.

Honestly, beyond this I don’t think there is much to discuss.[/spoiler] You're right. You didn't enjoy it, I did. There was no need for you to make the comments you did, but off you went.[spoiler]You already resorted to the “bad” fan argument and we are in page 3. Yikes!

I didn't call you a bad fan. I said bad fans existed, and I'd rather be over-positive than over-negative. The fact you took that as an attack on you says more than I ever could have.

No one said you must be dumb because you enjoyed a trailer; I d recommend you read my response again. I have no desire to respond to whatever straw man you have chosen to beat on.

I didn't call you a bad fan. I said bad fans existed, and I'd rather be over-positive than over-negative.

What is the argument for it. I was very optimist driven to most changes GW was saying they would do, and each and every time I was disappointed. If someone is over positive this has to be even worse. Unless someone has some sort of GW always right mind set, but that would just be foolish.

Grey40k wrote:
I see this hysterical hype building as something ugly because I recognize the manipulation attempt. If they showed my a sculptor from their design teams talk lovingly about his or her creation I would take Their enthusiasm more positively.

Why?

What makes the sculptor better than anyone else in GW's employ marketing their new game? You realise that ANY employee working for GW is going to talk only about the positives on a new upcoming product during official marketing material. A sculptors enthusiasm for new models is no different to the community web team or the white dwarf team or Joe who works in the packing department. Any new product or movie or game is the very same.


Sure in reality we know that nothing is perfect. However we also know that no company, no person is going to start marketing and convincing you to buy their product by talking about the negatives. By focusing on them as the FIRST thing we encounter. Nope not at all. The first thing they are going to do is talk about how excited they are; about how exciting the new thing is etc.....




Also I'd point out that yeah a 5 min video isn't' all they've done. It's purely the introduction to photos, articles and more. Sure we've not had the motherload - we've perhaps 2 months of marketing yet to go before we get close to the motherload of information on 9th edition.

I think any sculptur who works for any company is going to say only good things about their employer, because first of all they probably want to keep their job, and second of all if they ever want to quit and find a different job, every person who hires a designer who isn't super exited about his company is going to think that this is the guy who thinks it is okey to not be exited. And that would kind of a lower the chance to be hired.

 Overread wrote:

Why?

What makes the sculptor better than anyone else in GW's employ marketing their new game

Why do you think I said that?

I understand very well the idea of slowly releasing content, I see why they use a "super excited" tone in their posts.

Now, please, make a bit of an effort on your end to understand the other side.

Grey40k wrote:

 Overread wrote:

Why?

What makes the sculptor better than anyone else in GW's employ marketing their new game

Why do you think I said that? .

I don't know - that's kinda why I asked

Grey40k wrote:


Now, please, make a bit of an effort on your end to understand the other side.

Why?

In your original post you ask if anyone agrees with you, and evidently some do, while a number don't. You are the one dragging this out, and refusing to believe that anyone else can have a different opinion on this advert without being deluded.

Well because if two sides don't talk to each other and come to agreement it ends real bad, in the end.

Karol wrote:

I didn't call you a bad fan. I said bad fans existed, and I'd rather be over-positive than over-negative.

What is the argument for it.

Because if I felt THAT negatively about something, I wouldn't be a part of it, because I've got better things to do with my time and money? Why would I let myself become so negative about something I wanted to be a part of?

I'd far rather go in with a positive outlook for the sake of my own mental health. I don't expect everyone to share that opinion, but I do expect them to respect my choice.

harlokin wrote:Why?

In your original post you ask if anyone agrees with you, and evidently some do, while a number don't. You are the one dragging this out, and refusing to believe that anyone else can have a different opinion on this advert without being deluded.

Yeah, there's definitely a vibe of "how dare you be okay with what GW are doing right now, can't you see they're manipulating you!!" going on (not from you, harlokin!).

We get it, some people don't like GW's advertising methods. Some other people, however, do. I don't think it's in good faith to keep bringing up phrases like "manipulation".

Karol wrote:
Well because if two sides don't talk to each other and come to agreement it ends real bad, in the end.

Why would two different opinions in taste need to come to an agreement?