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Orks would probably be number 1, because Orks are found in every system explored, and thrive on warfare and fight each other.

Statistically speaking, there is probably not a single moment in time in which an ork is not currently being punched. It's just most likely an ork doing the punching!

the_scotsman wrote:

DeathKorp_Rider wrote:

the_scotsman wrote:

Not Online!!! wrote:
Chaos guard, probably the only thing getting beat up worse then guard, even by their "teammates "
that is when they show up .

Yeah, Generic Rebels/Heretics is for sure the ultimate winner of any punching-bag race in 40k.

In Fantasy, that role was unquestionably filled by the Beastmen, and it is telling that RnH in 40k have always had beastmen as well. For some reason, GW likes asserting their dominance by humiliating goatmen as much as Shane Madaj.

Aren’t Corsairs bottom of the list?

I don't recall ever seeing Corsairs in basically any 40k fiction, so...no? I could not tell you how frequently or not corsairs win and lose in fiction. Might as well say the Zoats or something are the ultimate punching bag. Maybe. I dunno. They might as well not exist.

They do show up in Gav's Path of the Eldar trilogy, but the 'corsairs' are just a mix of Dark and Craftworld eldar, the former doing their normal thing, and the latter mostly being idiot youngsters slumming off the Path (or technically on some of the darker/ more independent ones).

 Hellebore wrote:

The eldar are trying to survive, maybe destroy chaos and protect their maiden worlds. But they aren't trying to conquer anything and they aren't trying to exterminate humanity just cuz.Basically the eldar don't occupy a distinct enough conceptual niche in relation to the imperium (this is what everything is built around). They can't be protagonists because they've got a dozen imperial protagonists to work with, and they don't work as convincingly as antagonists because they aren't as anti-imperium as the 'evil' factions. The tau are like this to a lesser extent.

...

The only way to change this due to GW's business model is to re-align the eldar somehow, like ynnari form a unified eldar empire bent on retaking the galaxy, in which case they can be more tauesque in their alignment. I imagine that's what they were kind of trying to do with the ynnari, but it was done so half heartedly that it has fizzled.

There are multiple Eldar storylines that GW could do, and even do simultaneously. You've got Biel-Tan and the Masque of Frozen Stars with their whole restore the empire theme. If GW wanted to go that angle, they can have Biel-Tan carve out the beginnings of a new empire starting among Exodite worlds or other sparsely inhabited worlds in the galactic south. Iyanden with Iyanna can go the whole empire of the dead or empire of necromancers. There seemed to be a loose thread or hint in the Phoenix Rising book about young Exodites wanting to play a more active role in the galaxy.

Maybe some of the Dark Eldar want to get out from under Vect and start up their own empires as well or become Ynnari and thus sort of fuse with Craftworlder society to create a hybrid new society. It could be a sort of Melnibone, not the moustache whirling villainy of the Dark Eldar nor the more austere Craftworlders but something more baroque, hearkening back to the Eldar empire. That is supposedly what Jes Goodwin said the theme of the Ynnari armor of the Visarch was supposed to represent, having themes from multiple branches of the Eldar.

The challenge any of those have is the dying race schtick. Unless Biel tann has the capacity to bring back the empire then it's kind of just wishful thinking and we haven't really been given the sense the Eldar are in any capacity to mount that kind of force, even as a combined faction.

The Eldar don't have a convincing enough force to be seen as a threat. There are 3 ways I can see them getting big enough to be seen as that threat again:

1 - all the Eldar just go down the clone route and pump out clone armies (the Eldar could then be a horde army more convincingly)

2 - all dead Eldar are conscripted into wraith armies so they now have legitimately huge military forces and their tough wraith constructs are expanded out in variety

3 - ynnead pulls an AOS and tears the souls out of slannesh, severing the eldar's link and saving souls to be reborn again, thus removing the dying race schtick all together and the Eldar can be free to empire build and be a true threat.


And 4 which is a technical one I don't see them doing - the Eldar find/decide to deploy crazy advanced technology from before the fall so that they are actually a technological threat despite their small size. A single Eldar being harder to kill than a wraithlord equipped with crazy weapons leading robotic automata armies from the height of their empire's power.

In this case the threat comes from the force multiplication of their technology, so that small forces can convincingly be seen as real sector level threats and one craft world can take over multiple sectors.



I'd actually prefer number 4, but GW seems insistent on only paying lip service to Eldar technological superiority so I doubt it would ever happen.

They seem intent on number 3 though as an aspirational goal.

 Hellebore wrote:
The challenge any of those have is the dying race schtick. Unless Biel tann has the capacity to bring back the empire then it's kind of just wishful thinking and we haven't really been given the sense the Eldar are in any capacity to mount that kind of force, even as a combined faction.

The Eldar don't have a convincing enough force to be seen as a threat. There are 3 ways I can see them getting big enough to be seen as that threat again:

1 - all the Eldar just go down the clone route and pump out clone armies (the Eldar could then be a horde army more convincingly)

2 - all dead Eldar are conscripted into wraith armies so they now have legitimately huge military forces and their tough wraith constructs are expanded out in variety

3 - ynnead pulls an AOS and tears the souls out of slannesh, severing the eldar's link and saving souls to be reborn again, thus removing the dying race schtick all together and the Eldar can be free to empire build and be a true threat.


And 4 which is a technical one I don't see them doing - the Eldar find/decide to deploy crazy advanced technology from before the fall so that they are actually a technological threat despite their small size. A single Eldar being harder to kill than a wraithlord equipped with crazy weapons leading robotic automata armies from the height of their empire's power.

In this case the threat comes from the force multiplication of their technology, so that small forces can convincingly be seen as real sector level threats and one craft world can take over multiple sectors.



I'd actually prefer number 4, but GW seems insistent on only paying lip service to Eldar technological superiority so I doubt it would ever happen.

They seem intent on number 3 though as an aspirational goal.

GW can have Biel-Tan try to carve out the beginnings of an empire and leave it open ended as to whether they have succeeded or is it the last flaring of the dying ember of the Eldar civilization. With the Imperium distracted, and all the general chaos caused by the Great Rift, Biel-Tan's actions might not attract a response from the Imperium as they have so many other more immediate threats to deal with.

As for the options:
1. I don't see GW doing this as thematically Eldar are elves, and there are already other races that fill the horde role. However if significant Dark Eldar were to come out of the Webway and form some new society, then that might pump up the overall numbers since the Dark Eldar are supposed to be quite numerous (they have to be in order to account for their rather bloodthirsty society)

2. Iyanden and Iyanna could go down this route for an Eldar empire with a ruling caste of necromancers.

3. Ynnari can do this. Certainly that is where I thought GW might be going with their faction but this seems to have stalled.

4. I can see the Eldar using super tech like the device that incinerated Duriel as a force multiplier. So for example, the Guard force in a game that engages an Eldar force might be the 10% that survived the army incinerating super marble that was expended earlier. That's a reference to Eldorath Starbane, that incompetent Alaitoc Farseer, recovering artifacts called the Stars of Khaine in a battle report in WD which seemed to be just a bunch of glowing marbles but with apparently massive destructive power. This can be done narratively as the true numbers and full capabilities of pre-Fall tech preserved by all factions of the Eldar has never been explicitly delineated. The tech can be as powerful and as limited as needed by storyline. So a second irreplaceable Star of Khaine might not be expended to wipe out the survivors of the first.