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Definitely agree with all the points above about the impact of rerolls on the game. The capriciousness of rolling dice is what makes the game good.

Gamers instinctively try to control any game by bending fate more and more to their control (rerolls). Any competitive edge is always sought. But I think these methods are often self-defeating prophecy - the more the game becomes controlled by players who want to "win", the more boring the game becomes.

If you really want to "win" 40k, don't play at all! That way you will never have the chance to experience the crushing failure of losing.

Definitely there were balance issues in old editions surrounding vehicles being exploding deathtraps and so on. That, however, is a mathhammer issue related to the statistical limitations of a D6.

Some of my favourite wargaming memories are games won and lost because of chance. I suppose that can be spun in such a way to diminish the role a human player has.

I would say however: read Clausewitz...The fog of war is one of the most dominant influencers of a battlespace. You are crowding a lot of chaotic elements together in a fight - ammo explodes, soldiers get afraid/lost/confused, players miss an easy shot. High-pressure situations produce explosive outcomes.

People seek control over those situations to ensure victory, but frustration is a fine balance. Too much frustration and people rage quit. I prefer my games impossibly frustrating, to be honest, but I understand the duality. On the other hand, if its too easy, why bother packing my stuff up at all?

I personally don't often "play to win" because there isn't much satisfaction for me personally in winning. Its all about the experience of the game itself and I 100% agree that rerolls sap far too much excitement out of the appearance of statistical edge cases.

It seems, to me, clear that rerolls started happening because gamers cried and threatened to quit. Thats not a good framework for a healthy game system.

Cheers

Dont forget rolling and rerolling to see how many hit rolls to make XD

The amount of rolls needed in this game is a pathetic, I was hoping it would be greatly reduced in 9th but without knowing more, theres no reason to assume it.

 Vector Strike wrote:
As 8e codexes will be compatible with 9e rules... I don't see re-rolls going away anytime soon.

But yeah, I hope they'll be severely reduced in 10e.

We all know that 15 months from now, all the 8e codexes will have been replaced. Of course they're going to redo all the books and sell them to us again.

Re-rolls should be like Eldar Guide & Doom. On one your unit, or enemy unit, shooting/melee, with RNG and positioning element. All these aura blobs should go.