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I just dont 'get' Wracks...I fully appreciate that they are hard to remove, but they don't seem to 'do' anything; it makes us feel more like Death Guard than Drukhari.

I suspect that the demise of Kabalites&Venoms is being overstated. Sure their efficiency has taken a shellacking, but they still offer mobility, dispersed threat, and a bit of resilience; all of which will be valuable with the new missions.

Checked Forgeworld.....Reapers are out of stock

 Amishprn86 wrote:
Here is my 9th new points list, testing it this Friday.

Raiding Force

Black Heart Patrol
Archon: Splinter Pistol, HB
Kabals x5
Ravager 3x DC
Ravager 3x DC
Venom 1x SC

Black Heart Patrol
Drazhar
Kabals x5
Mandrakes x5
Ravager 3x DC
Venom 1x SC
Venom 1x SC

Coven either PoF or AoTF Patrol
Haemonculus-Rifle
Wracks x5
Wracks x5
Wracks x5
Talos x3
Talos x3

2000pts

Subject to change, Ravagers swap our for Reapers

No Urien or grotesques?

 harlokin wrote:
I just dont 'get' Wracks...I fully appreciate that they are hard to remove, but they don't seem to 'do' anything; it makes us feel more like Death Guard than Drukhari.

I suspect that the demise of Kabalites&Venoms is being overstated. Sure their efficiency has taken a shellacking, but they still offer mobility, dispersed threat, and a bit of resilience; all of which will be valuable with the new missions.

Checked Forgeworld.....Reapers are out of stock

I think both kabs and wyches will end up being usable out of transports, because this is absolutely going to be an edition of "shooty thing pops out of deep strike/outflank and double-shoot nukes your stuff". armies are going to get heavier with vehicles, GW gave very low cost effective deep strike to basically anything that wants it, single shot dedicated antitank got relatively way cheaper than almost anything else...I think a wych countercharge unit sitting in a raider on an objective is a fairly good answer to the deep striking squad of obliterators/eradicators/fire dragons/retributors/what have you.The nice thing is even our most expensive vehicles tend to be less pricy than those other factions bring to the table, and we do have stratagems that are good for making life more annoying for those types of units, particularly since they tend to be solo operations rather than coming with their own re-roll bubbles.

in one of the test games of 8th I played, 10 grots and a weirdboy were able to keep a pair of oblits occupied from the bottom of turn 2 when they came on, to the top of turn 4 when they finally freed themselves in time for the game to be over. A good amount of that was my opponent continuously attempting to split the uprights with his attacks to kill the weirdboy efficiently, and then rolling poorly and leaving him alive to smite another day, but if you can successfully tie stuff up, it tends to stay tied better than in 8th, and Wyches are uniquely good at that.

We've gone from what was previously an "active" edition to more of a "reactive" edition I think - it's going to be easier to hide just behind terrain, or behind a couple types of cover buffs, and most of the action is going to revolve around trying to take out the units your opponent has moved out to sit on the objective.


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Huh...do other people not just make a Reaper by adding a Vaul's Wrath D-cannon on to a Raider chassis with a magnet? Those things are a nice, easy to work with plastic bit that are usually like 4$ on ebay because people always want the vibro cannon.

 vipoid wrote:
Do you think the extra Wrack squads are worth taking?

For 9th mission, yes. You will want ObjSec for sure. And now the cost of Kabals and Wyches went way up i can not justify them. I've been play testing games at 1800, but its 1 thing to have Talos, vehicles, flyers, and some wych units go up, its another thing for Kabals to go up, they really didn't need a +3pts up. Guardsmen got +1pt...... that really pisses me off to no end. Sure Guardsmen can not go in open top, but they are better with a super cheap hero support (that you'll take anyways b.c HQ taxes) in every way to Kabals, Kabals are 80% more costly, if the venom was the problem then increase that (which they did). The high all 3 troops go up in points the better wracks get at ObjSec b.c they are way tougher (4++ T4, or 5++/-1D T4).


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 Blackie wrote:

 Amishprn86 wrote:
Here is my 9th new points list, testing it this Friday.

Raiding Force

Black Heart Patrol
Archon: Splinter Pistol, HB
Kabals x5
Ravager 3x DC
Ravager 3x DC
Venom 1x SC

Black Heart Patrol
Drazhar
Kabals x5
Mandrakes x5
Ravager 3x DC
Venom 1x SC
Venom 1x SC

Coven either PoF or AoTF Patrol
Haemonculus-Rifle
Wracks x5
Wracks x5
Wracks x5
Talos x3
Talos x3

2000pts

Subject to change, Ravagers swap our for Reapers

No Urien or grotesques?

Grots went upt o 45ppm, I can not justify that for now, maybe later, and he is more costly to get +1str, whcih for now i don't have the points.


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 harlokin wrote:
I just dont 'get' Wracks...I fully appreciate that they are hard to remove, but they don't seem to 'do' anything; it makes us feel more like Death Guard than Drukhari.

I suspect that the demise of Kabalites&Venoms is being overstated. Sure their efficiency has taken a shellacking, but they still offer mobility, dispersed threat, and a bit of resilience; all of which will be valuable with the new missions.

Checked Forgeworld.....Reapers are out of stock

They WILL do alot, b.c some secondarys now you can't advance, shoot, charge, melee. So they need to be tough and do nothing.

Sort of coming from the general thread.
I think you are going to see an interesting philosophical debate on how to run what seems a competitively dead faction.

I think the issue is going to be in how bad/dead venoms+raiders are now they can't fallback and shoot. If they are going to remain the workhorses of the faction, I'm suspect wracks will be a thing (unless you bring some to unlock Talos).

I mean its all been nerfed - but if the faction has strength, its in being very fast, allowing for concentration of force and board control. Wracks are not really helping with that. They are tough, but not so tough they won't die to concentration of force. Although if you were taking a couple of 5 man kabalite units to hold back field objectives before, maybe its worth the upgrade. If you are running 3 patrols.

You can still take lots of Venoms/Raiders, but with them going up and nerfed, and the infantry going it its harder to get enough of them and other things in the army. So you either take a few (1-3) or you take a lot (9), but not in the middle (5-6).

With that said this is all pending on how all armies are going to build their lists. I was never scare of some armies but now i am, at the same time SM got harder by 30% at least b.c my anti-marines lists are basically +30% in points and the marines list i fight against just got better even tho they went up in points too (b.c the units people are taking only went up 5-8%). Admech got harder for me too, so did IG. I never had problems with IG it was always a fine match up for the both of us, but all our troops going up +3 and venoms going up, while Guardsmen only went up 1pt means they will be more effective at winning the game via maxing primaries and secondarys.

One of the problems isn't damage, its scoring points and our point changes hurts us in that way more than other armies. We got nerf the Hardest IMO. Eveyone is looking at some armies/list and saying "OMG they got hit hard" but it was castle lists, and heavy gun units like the Riptide, but their infantry didn't get nerf that badly (1t at times) which is what will win games.

You need to be able to clear 1 or 2 objectives and take it to win games, and i think GW knows that better than most players does right now and thats why we got nerf the hardest b.c we are the best in the game at clearing off 1 or 2 objectives and taking them.

I suspect that those recommending Wyches in Raiders may be onto something... Raiders have some anti-tank, Splinter Pistols can be used if/when the vehicle is in close combat, Blast Pistols are now attractive, and Wyches can do some work in close combat (unlike Kabalites) and get a 4++.

Anybody have any idea when the Forgeworld updates are meant to be coming out?......I'm super curious about Reapers.

The problem is how VP's are gain, all infantry are going to be targeted over non infantry units first.

Also Reaper is 150, Tantalus is 400, confirm via books from youtube run down, just google Forge world points.

 Amishprn86 wrote:
The problem is is how VP's are, all infantry are going to be targeted over non infantry units first.

Also Reaper is 150, Tantalus is 400, confirm via books from youtube run down, just google Forge world points.

Nice thanks. Reaper seems a steal at 150, no longer having the penalty for Heavy weapons on vehicles really helps it.

 Amishprn86 wrote:

For 9th mission, yes. You will want ObjSec for sure. And now the cost of Kabals and Wyches went way up i can not justify them.

Ah, fair enough.

 Amishprn86 wrote:
I've been play testing games at 1800, but its 1 thing to have Talos, vehicles, flyers, and some wych units go up, its another thing for Kabals to go up, they really didn't need a +3pts up. Guardsmen got +1pt...... that really pisses me off to no end. Sure Guardsmen can not go in open top, but they are better with a super cheap hero support (that you'll take anyways b.c HQ taxes) in every way to Kabals, Kabals are 80% more costly, if the venom was the problem then increase that (which they did). The high all 3 troops go up in points the better wracks get at ObjSec b.c they are way tougher (4++ T4, or 5++/-1D T4).

Oh, I absolutely agree regarding the points increased for Kabalites.

I'll be honest, I really don't see myself continuing with Dark Eldar in 9th edition. Maybe they'll still be viable with a lot of Talos and Fliers, but I just don't have any interest in playing that sort of list. I got into DE for stuff like Kabalites in boats, but GW has basically said that I'm having fun wrong by playing the army that way.

Yeah, Just my 180pt Wych unit + Raider went up to 250pts. If you compare that to a lot of other units in the game its a nightmare increase. Venoms with 2 Cannons are as much as a Raider now.

I was really looking forward to a large wych army in 9th, but its done the opposite for me, i see no reasons to even field them at 11pts +15-25 for weapons. Especially when Genestealers are 15pts each and their supports only got better in 9th (Neurothrope no points change, Malanthrope got cheaper, Swarmlord still worth taking, Hive guard a minor points increase) and they can still turn 1 charge. Taking them in 10mans to stop auto max blasts is easy to do and better with new terrain rules.

The more armies i look at the more i think we got hit the hardest out of everyone.

But for those that likes Coven, its a great time to play.

 vipoid wrote:

I'll be honest, I really don't see myself continuing with Dark Eldar in 9th edition. Maybe they'll still be viable with a lot of Talos and Fliers, but I just don't have any interest in playing that sort of list. I got into DE for stuff like Kabalites in boats, but GW has basically said that I'm having fun wrong by playing the army that way.

I'm in the same (Kabalite) boat, but I don't have a different option, and I'm frankly not interested in any of the other factions. I'm just going to have to suck it up

 harlokin wrote:

 vipoid wrote:

I'll be honest, I really don't see myself continuing with Dark Eldar in 9th edition. Maybe they'll still be viable with a lot of Talos and Fliers, but I just don't have any interest in playing that sort of list. I got into DE for stuff like Kabalites in boats, but GW has basically said that I'm having fun wrong by playing the army that way.

I'm in the same (Kabalite) boat, but I don't have a different option, and I'm frankly not interested in any of the other factions. I'm just going to have to suck it up

AT least how 9th is, even if you are slightly under powered you can still win if you play smart with DE, even against Nu Marines. You just need to get your points and deny them points. This might mean throwing units away, but thats fine to get a win.

 Amishprn86 wrote:

 harlokin wrote:

 vipoid wrote:

I'll be honest, I really don't see myself continuing with Dark Eldar in 9th edition. Maybe they'll still be viable with a lot of Talos and Fliers, but I just don't have any interest in playing that sort of list. I got into DE for stuff like Kabalites in boats, but GW has basically said that I'm having fun wrong by playing the army that way.

I'm in the same (Kabalite) boat, but I don't have a different option, and I'm frankly not interested in any of the other factions. I'm just going to have to suck it up

AT least how 9th is, even if you are slightly under powered you can still win if you play smart with DE, even against Nu Marines. You just need to get your points and deny them points. This might mean throwing units away, but thats fine to get a win.

Play smart?.....thats me fethed

Also, i think i'm going to play my next few games with Stringer Pods on my Talos, cheaper and IDK if i really need the Anti-tank after seeing all the point changes and how i am playing.

Let us know how it goes. I suspect that I'll still be running Haywire on my 3 Taloi.

Kabalite warriors got a points increase of nearly 50%
https://youtu.be/yci9UcaId5A

All troops for us did, we already have all the points leaks everywhere.

 Amishprn86 wrote:
Yeah, Just my 180pt Wych unit + Raider went up to 250pts. If you compare that to a lot of other units in the game its a nightmare increase. Venoms with 2 Cannons are as much as a Raider now.

I was really looking forward to a large wych army in 9th, but its done the opposite for me, i see no reasons to even field them at 11pts +15-25 for weapons. Especially when Genestealers are 15pts each and their supports only got better in 9th (Neurothrope no points change, Malanthrope got cheaper, Swarmlord still worth taking, Hive guard a minor points increase) and they can still turn 1 charge. Taking them in 10mans to stop auto max blasts is easy to do and better with new terrain rules.

The more armies i look at the more i think we got hit the hardest out of everyone.

But for those that likes Coven, its a great time to play.

100% my thoughts. Was just getting into wyches and 3 raiders, but this is a brutal nerf-beatdown and no mistake. So so arbitrary, I hate it. Ah well, the cool conversion I was doing for my girls is on hold until GW snap out of it. Overall, I think 9e has been a poor balance pass, and that marines will if anything increase their dominance...

Well i'm doing this as a base

Raiding Party
BH
Drazhar
Kabals + venom
Reaper

BH
Archon SP, HB
Kabals + venom
Kabals + venom
Ravager x3 DC
Ravager x3 DC

PoF
Haemonculus
Wracks x5
Wracks x5
Talos x3, Macrox2, Stinger Pods
Talos x3, Macrox2, Stinger Pods

I have 170pts left over, so either 1 of 4 things (still thinking about if i have enough infantry or not)
A) 3rd Ravager
B) Incubi + Venom
C) Incubi + Mandrakes
D) 2 units of Mandrakes

Looks a pretty cool army.

Incubi didn't get hit too hard in the points massacre, but I think they still lose out for me when compared to Mandrakes. I really like that the latter don't really need any support from characters or transports, and they can do a bit of everything.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2020/07/14/the-rumour-engine-july-14th-2020/

Looking even more Lelith-y

Wow, we really kinda got fethed in the ass with these points values eh?

Hopefully they'll go down with the first chapter approved. I think the list I was going to work on went up by over 200 points.

Of course they get eviscerated as soon as I start painting my army too. I'm having a really hard time figuring out what to run in my army now, not that I play competitively or anything, but still.

So, the rumour is obviously Lilith Hesperax. Any chance of getting some Blood Brides along side her in the same way we got Incubi and Drazhar?

Yeah it's very much looking like Lelith. I'm kind of excited but kind of disapointed that it'll likely be Lelith as she's locked to a specific Obsession and so it limits my list options I can put her in. Drazhar was nice as he could be put in any Drukhari list. I feel before getting Lelith we needed Mandrakes and Grotesques to be done in plastic, her old model isn't even that bad.

With that in mind if it is a Lelith model do you guys plan to use her even if her rules don't change and if you do whats the plan? Webway her in solo, raider with 9 wyches, the new reserve rules?

 Inevitable_Faith wrote:
Yeah it's very much looking like Lelith. I'm kind of excited but kind of disapointed that it'll likely be Lelith as she's locked to a specific Obsession and so it limits my list options I can put her in. Drazhar was nice as he could be put in any Drukhari list. I feel before getting Lelith we needed Mandrakes and Grotesques to be done in plastic, her old model isn't even that bad.

With that in mind if it is a Lelith model do you guys plan to use her even if her rules don't change and if you do whats the plan? Webway her in solo, raider with 9 wyches, the new reserve rules?

She might get a completely new profile and not necessarily locked into a specific wych cult. Ghazghkull was goffs only but with the new model he can be taken in any detachment without breaking the klan bonus, just like Drazhar. The current Lelith I'd probably embark her in raider with 5-9 wyches or run her solo in a venom to keep 10 wyches in raiders.

That would be great. Drazhar's ability to fill in for any Drukhari HQ is priceless ( his statline doesn't hurt either).

Any opinions on how the Ynnari link will be dealt with?

I actually think her cult is a pretty good one, after doing some math on +1a vs +1s a while ago. It comes in just behind, but what I really like about Strife is that they actually have a good strategy. Fight agains are often locked behind 'end of the fight phase' conditions, whereas strife lets you go again upon the destruction of a unit, meaning your wyches can take quite a chunk out of something. I don't rate Drukhari strats at all, so a 3cp one with some good utility is very welcome.

 Brutus_Apex wrote:
Wow, we really kinda got fethed in the ass with these points values eh?

Hopefully they'll go down with the first chapter approved. I think the list I was going to work on went up by over 200 points.

Of course they get eviscerated as soon as I start painting my army too. I'm having a really hard time figuring out what to run in my army now, not that I play competitively or anything, but still.

I'm in the same boat, have been playing them since Contrast came out, and they have been on a slow slide sice then. Me culpa

I've ordered some Wyches to try them out a bit, but fundementally I still want my army to feel like Drukhari. I saw someone suggest the Yncarne and 30 Razorwing flocks, but I'd rather not play at all than have to resort to weird edge-case lists.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 grouchoben wrote:
I actually think her cult is a pretty good one, after doing some math on +1a vs +1s a while ago. It comes in just behind, but what I really like about Strife is that they actually have a good strategy. Fight agains are often locked behind 'end of the fight phase' conditions, whereas strife lets you go again upon the destruction of a unit, meaning your wyches can take quite a chunk out of something. I don't rate Drukhari strats at all, so a 3cp one with some good utility is very welcome.

I was leaning toward Cursed Blade, as I'm likely to play against Harlequins quite a bit; I figuered having the girls with S4 would be good, and the Booby Traps strat looks like it might be useful.

I normally played Blade for sure, S4/5 really takes them over the top. But I ran a couple of games at the end of 8e with my 28 Wych batallion as Strife, and it's not bad y'know. If Lelith gets new rules that might seal the deal. (All this is academic of course, as the new wych/raider costs are absurd.)

I'm going to experiment with two 5 Wych squads in a Raider, and see how they fare. It has a bit of anti tank from the DC/DL, and the two Blast pistols and the Splinters will all be able to fire if the boat gets caught in combat.

Sounds like a test of skill/slashing impact cult to me - raiders and blast pistols would benefit a lot, and 5-wych squads are pretty much toast if they leave the boat.