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 Mothsniper wrote:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GNzSOyYBaH4
Games Workshop Price INCREASE Scam Explained (June 2020)

Found this.

So that is why those boxes are $55... because new sets are coming out at $60, that makes sense now.

So just basic business psychological manipulation

 Mothsniper wrote:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GNzSOyYBaH4
Games Workshop Price INCREASE Scam Explained (June 2020)

Found this.

So that is why those boxes are $55... because new sets are coming out at $60, that makes sense now.

Yeah scam is to harsh a word for that. They are not doing hiding anything or using any special tricks to manipulate consumers there outside of what you can see in other products.
It's just a pretty aggressive pricing policy.

It's more of a question if you find enough value in the product to justify the price point.

That is a good explanation. I don't think any company would want to explain why it sold 10 models for some price and then started selling 5 models for the same price, or 10 models for more then double the original price. Specially if those all are the same models.

 Jidmah wrote:
Some kit's prices are truely insane. I really want a melee squad of plague marines, but to get one, I have to buy two boxes of the 7 marine set.
Even with discounts, that would 64€ for just one unit of melee troops, while something like a defiler is just 50€.

And let's not get started on mek guns. Beautiful models, awesome on the tabletop, but nothing will ever be able to justify a unit of them clocking in at 160€.

Yeah we tallied up my friend epic scale thousand sons army IIRC it was something like

2-4 fell blades
2 hell talons
1 thunderhawk
40 rubric terminators + 4 sorcerer terminator leaders
a spru of characters for his general sorcerers
.4 greater demons

All in all it was like $120 US.....and in regular 40K prices it was pushing $3,500


something like 10K points in 8th edition rules.

That is a good explanation. I don't think any company would want to explain why it sold 10 models for some price and then started selling 5 models for the same price, or 10 models for more then double the original price. Specially if those all are the same models.

Well they may not want to explain it but my buddy who is a guard player remembers when 20 man squads of infantry cost half as much as what they charge for 10 now and they are basically the same kit.

 Insectum7 wrote:
Sometimes I think they're high. Then I remember that a single metal Wraithguard used to be 10 or 11 bucks in a blister

Games were smaller then though. No one expected people to run an entire army of wraith guard unless you were REALLY into them. Back then I had three zoanthropes and that would be considered excessive, now it wouldn't even be considered a complete unit by a lot of people.

It wont just the the $55 for the box of dudes. Sadly many games companies are really expensive these days.

It’s the money you will also need to spend on:

Ever changing Codex’s and/or a new monthly App subscription
Constant new books that add to rules
Objectives Cards
Other faff that GW puts out.
etc etc.

 Jidmah wrote:
Some kit's prices are truely insane. I really want a melee squad of plague marines, but to get one, I have to buy two boxes of the 7 marine set.
Even with discounts, that would 64€ for just one unit of melee troops, while something like a defiler is just 50€.

And let's not get started on mek guns. Beautiful models, awesome on the tabletop, but nothing will ever be able to justify a unit of them clocking in at 160€.

About high prices orks there are two examples that really bother me, other than mek gunz (which are still one of the few units that costs 1euro per point, despite units became more expensive pointswise). The first in our flyers: they cost 36 when the kit had 3 options, then during 7th GW added of a single set of sprue which combined to the price hikes in 2020 set the box at 60 euro, almost double the price. I mean, in 2017 I could buy a dakkajet/burna/bomber for 36 euro, now if I want the same exact model I have to pay 60, lol.

The second example is the naut, which was already very expensive: 85 till 2017. It was increased to 100 a couple years ago, wow, like the titanic Stompa. And it has the same exact box, not even getting re-based like other kits and yet it got a flat +15 euro hike. At least GW didn't raise its price again a couple of months ago, that would have been the ultimate joke.

The full unit of mek gunz (6 pieces of artillery) costs 240 euro, for 240 to 390 points depending on what type of gun the hobbyst decides to go for.

It doesn't want to be a rant, I know it's a free market and I'm not complaining. In fact I have all the models I want and this new policy just makes my collection worth more. I just stated facts though, and if I had to start now to collect my army now way I could afford it, plain and simple. So I understand the reactions of those who left the hobby years ago and recently had a look on new GW kits.

Yeah no it's not just you. I bought a GSC army when they were brand new in mid 7th ed, and 35$ for 5 acolytes was considered a crime against humanity.

Now it's 55$ for 5...

I recall a thread about this some time ago. I recall complaining about selfsame and saying something along the lines of "I understand inflation is a thing, but it feels like the difference between now, and when I started in the nineties is way outstripping inflation."

Then someone else actually did those calculations using some online inflation tool and showed that average prices were actually somewhat below inflation. The lesson for me was not to conflate my feelings with actual arithmetic.

On the other hand, I also read an article comparing minimum wage to inflation, and guess what: that fell some ways below inflation too, so yeah. Feth capitalism I guess.

Here I am about to give GW more money on a Dominion and Celestian kit... eek.

Honestly GW's inflated prices in the UK aren't as bad as some other hobbies - I've seen camera year go up by insane amounts as a result of market slowing, inflation, recessions, china messing around with raw material imports etc...

In the end we all hate paying more, we all dislike it. But if you want to remain part of the hobby then that's the cost you have to justify to yourself to keep involved. One big bonus is that whilst GW releases new models and updates old ones, many of the armies are still running around with models where generation 1 models are still valid.

My tyranids still have gaunts, zoanthropes, warriors, rippers - all things that were around in generation 1 and most of those I stated can still be used without any issue today. Sure things like warriors have more weapon options now and things like Hive Tyrants and Carnifex have become far larger than in the past. But in general a lot of the models have retained a valid place in the army. Heck look at eldar - one of the regular requests is for plastic aspect warriors and yet when GW redid the banshee they are still of the same size and style as the first generation ones. If you've still got first gen you don't "have" to get the new ones.


So on many ways one big bonus is that GW's models do retain quite a decent long term value.

 Ginjitzu wrote:
I recall a thread about this some time ago. I recall complaining about selfsame and saying something along the lines of "I understand inflation is a thing, but it feels like the difference between now, and when I started in the nineties is way outstripping inflation."

Then someone else actually did those calculations using some online inflation tool and showed that average prices were actually somewhat below inflation. The lesson for me was not to conflate my feelings with actual arithmetic.

I think that is just false.

Earliest datapoint I know of is 10£ per 30 models of space marine. Around 88-ish. Compare that to any particular modern box of your choosing and extrapolate the rate.
For reference I think 1£ would be roughly 2.5-3£ today.

Shinji wrote:

 Ginjitzu wrote:
I recall a thread about this some time ago. I recall complaining about selfsame and saying something along the lines of "I understand inflation is a thing, but it feels like the difference between now, and when I started in the nineties is way outstripping inflation."

Then someone else actually did those calculations using some online inflation tool and showed that average prices were actually somewhat below inflation. The lesson for me was not to conflate my feelings with actual arithmetic.

I think that is just false.

Earliest datapoint I know of is 10£ per 30 models of space marine. Around 88-ish. Compare that to any particular modern box of your choosing and extrapolate the rate.
For reference I think 1£ would be roughly 2.5-3£ today.

£10 in 1988 pounds is £27.02 in 2019 pounds.

Slightly different take here:

GW is behaving exactly the way any company big enough to have shareholders behaves when some disruptive technology is on their radar. You don't have to be particularly tech-savy to know that 3d printing is right on the edge of being mature enough to invalidate GW's entire business model. They just invested in that big new factory (relatively speaking), and now they're trying to squeeze every penny they can out of that investment before the timer runs out. None of us like it, but expecting anything else is silly.

We even have a pretty good idea of what the aftermath looks like, we've seen stuff like this happen before. Compare the price of a CD right before file-sharing took off to the price of a CD today. GW is the RIAA, Thingiverse is Limewire, the end result will be a box of Intercessors costing $15-$20 like it should be now based on production costs, and there will be some ugly lawsuits between here and there.

In 1990, when I was just getting into Rogue Trader, a box of Space Marines could be had for $30USD and contained enough sprues to make 30 Space Marines. According to this site $30USD in 1990 is worth almost $60USD today, so it's not as bad as it sounds. But still, yes, they've upped the prices considerably over the years.

 BaconCatBug wrote:

Shinji wrote:

 Ginjitzu wrote:
I recall a thread about this some time ago. I recall complaining about selfsame and saying something along the lines of "I understand inflation is a thing, but it feels like the difference between now, and when I started in the nineties is way outstripping inflation."

Then someone else actually did those calculations using some online inflation tool and showed that average prices were actually somewhat below inflation. The lesson for me was not to conflate my feelings with actual arithmetic.

I think that is just false.

Earliest datapoint I know of is 10£ per 30 models of space marine. Around 88-ish. Compare that to any particular modern box of your choosing and extrapolate the rate.
For reference I think 1£ would be roughly 2.5-3£ today.

£10 in 1988 pounds is £27.02 in 2019 pounds.

And a 1st Class Stamp has risen from 20p in 1989 to 76p in 2019 -

 dadx6 wrote:
In 1990, when I was just getting into Rogue Trader, a box of Space Marines could be had for $30USD and contained enough sprues to make 30 Space Marines. According to this site $30USD in 1990 is worth almost $60USD today, so it's not as bad as it sounds. But still, yes, they've upped the prices considerably over the years.

2$ per model vs todays 6$ per model? That's 3x inflation rate. Tolerances differ ofc. So I'm not trying to imply that you should not find that acceptable ofc.

It was also a different kit, smaller models and worst plastic. So you need to take into and account better and bigger models.

 Amishprn86 wrote:
It was also a different kit, smaller models and worst plastic. So you need to take into and account better and bigger models.

Well no I don't necessarily have to. That's a more subjective measurement as the quality increase can be valued different between you and me it's not necessarily something we can agree upon. If my sole purpose was to play the game one model is just as good as another.

There are also process technology improvements over the years which often just lead to more bang for the same buck... 3d printing, CAD design, etc...

So measuring in models/grams/liters/kgs seems a more impartial way of looking at this.

 dadx6 wrote:
In 1990, when I was just getting into Rogue Trader, a box of Space Marines could be had for $30USD and contained enough sprues to make 30 Space Marines. According to this site $30USD in 1990 is worth almost $60USD today, so it's not as bad as it sounds. But still, yes, they've upped the prices considerably over the years.

Prices are not that hight comparing to 2nd-3rd edition kits, most of them with metal parts. I remember gretchins were sold in blisters of 4 models so in order to get the full squad of 30 plus runtherd you'd have need to buy 9 blisters, now the same squad cost half money not even counting inflaction (and you'll also get 3 runtherds instead of one).

But kits are way more expensive than they were in 2010, when most of them were already pure plastic, that's the point. Without going back that much compare 2017 prices, many kits are now 20% more expensive and they haven't changed a bit. New releases are also 20-30% more expensive comparing to their equivalents (in terms of battle role and number of models like 10 new sisters vs 10 tacticals or immolator/exorcist vs razorback/predator) of a few years ago.

The Newman wrote:
Slightly different take here:

GW is behaving exactly the way any company big enough to have shareholders behaves when some disruptive technology is on their radar. You don't have to be particularly tech-savy to know that 3d printing is right on the edge of being mature enough to invalidate GW's entire business model. They just invested in that big new factory (relatively speaking), and now they're trying to squeeze every penny they can out of that investment before the timer runs out. None of us like it, but expecting anything else is silly.

We even have a pretty good idea of what the aftermath looks like, we've seen stuff like this happen before. Compare the price of a CD right before file-sharing took off to the price of a CD today. GW is the RIAA, Thingiverse is Limewire, the end result will be a box of Intercessors costing $15-$20 like it should be now based on production costs, and there will be some ugly lawsuits between here and there.

Yarp I think theres a bit of that to consider and whilst we are a way off yet its a coming, think terrain will feel the pinch first as minis still need a degree of tech-wots and time so overpriced convinence will hold for a maybe another decade

beast_gts wrote:

 BaconCatBug wrote:

Shinji wrote:

 Ginjitzu wrote:
I recall a thread about this some time ago. I recall complaining about selfsame and saying something along the lines of "I understand inflation is a thing, but it feels like the difference between now, and when I started in the nineties is way outstripping inflation."

Then someone else actually did those calculations using some online inflation tool and showed that average prices were actually somewhat below inflation. The lesson for me was not to conflate my feelings with actual arithmetic.

I think that is just false.

Earliest datapoint I know of is 10£ per 30 models of space marine. Around 88-ish. Compare that to any particular modern box of your choosing and extrapolate the rate.
For reference I think 1£ would be roughly 2.5-3£ today.

£10 in 1988 pounds is £27.02 in 2019 pounds.

And a 1st Class Stamp has risen from 20p in 1989 to 76p in 2019 -

Spoiler:

Source

Apples to oranges. Firstly, the actual cost of moving mail around has increased in price due to a volume increase. Making injection moulds and plastic has not gone up in price above inflation. Secondly, the Royal Mail used to be subsidied. Now it's a private company.

The actual cost of moving mail around should DECREASE per item with increased volume, though.

nekooni wrote:
The actual cost of moving mail around should DECREASE per item with increased volume, though.

No? You can't just slap more letters into a van and expect the price/letter to go down. Eventually you'll need a second van, which doubles the cost. You need more infrastructure and more staff to meet with rising demand, plus privatisation means you need to may middle and upper management more.

nekooni wrote:
The actual cost of moving mail around should DECREASE per item with increased volume, though.

Yesn't?

To a degree as capacities get fuller, efficiency goes up, however at some point the volume increases to a point were you need to invest further, adding fix cost and lowering efficency due to a time of lower efficency..

 BaconCatBug wrote:

nekooni wrote:
The actual cost of moving mail around should DECREASE per item with increased volume, though.

No? You can't just slap more letters into a van and expect the price/letter to go down. Eventually you'll need a second van, which doubles the cost. You need more infrastructure and more staff to meet with rising demand, plus privatisation means you need to may middle and upper management more.

Yes, but the more vans you buy the cheaper each van gets,basically. And if you have 100 vans you might consider having your own maintenance facility as that's cheaper than going to an external workshop at some point, stuff like that.

High tech sorting machines are not efficient for 10 or 100 mails a day, but at some point using them is cheaper than manual sorting.

Economies of scale, basically.

Privatisation is a different beast, I didn't comment on that. I don't think privatising essential services was a good idea, at least not in Germany and especially not for the consumer.

The day i got myself a 40$ gunpla kit is when i realised how much GW is ridiculous with its pricing.

for 40$ you get : an articulated model that requires no glue nor paint to assemble. Some parts are molded on the sprue with articulations. You get tons of weapons options and stickers too.

For 40$ at GW, you get : one monopose character that might have a head option if youre lucky.

GW hasn't gotten a penny from me since then, all my models come for alternative sources

 VladimirHerzog wrote:
The day i got myself a 40$ gunpla kit is when i realised how much GW is ridiculous with its pricing.

for 40$ you get : an articulated model that requires no glue nor paint to assemble. Some parts are molded on the sprue with articulations. You get tons of weapons options and stickers too.

For 40$ at GW, you get : one monopose character that might have a head option if youre lucky.

GW hasn't gotten a penny from me since then, all my models come for alternative sources

Not to crap on gunpla but if they're anything like the Kotobukiya Metal Gear Rex model I got the plastic is much softer and they aren't nearly as detailed as GWs sculpts.

Back in 1985 or so there were also Robotech plastic snap-together destroids that I used for Imperial robots in WH40K (which were a thing in 1st edition Compendium). Those cost maybe $8USD and were pretty high quality stuff. (I think they were the Bandai models, not the Revell ones, but I'm not sure - this was more than 30 years ago)

I think it's definitely the case that demand has a lot more to do with GW's pricing system than raw materials, shipping, or overhead.

 Sim-Life wrote:

 VladimirHerzog wrote:
The day i got myself a 40$ gunpla kit is when i realised how much GW is ridiculous with its pricing.

for 40$ you get : an articulated model that requires no glue nor paint to assemble. Some parts are molded on the sprue with articulations. You get tons of weapons options and stickers too.

For 40$ at GW, you get : one monopose character that might have a head option if youre lucky.

GW hasn't gotten a penny from me since then, all my models come for alternative sources

Not to crap on gunpla but if they're anything like the Kotobukiya Metal Gear Rex model I got the plastic is much softer and they aren't nearly as detailed as GWs sculpts.

plastic seems about the same softness as GW, and sure, were talking about big robots with mostly plates, but the "skeleton" inside those plates is quite detailed.
I have a hard time believing that making a monopose model, no matter how detailed they are, costs more than managing a fully articulated, multi color robot.