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Re: vehicles across the editions, I still find it really inexplicable that vehicles in 8th/9th are almost all 3+ save. I could see that being appropriate for, like, Rhinos, but something like an actual tank ought to be 2+.

I feel like a number of the complaints with vehicles (getting killed by small arms, anti-tank weapons not feeling punchy enough) could be addressed by making those high AP values actually necessary to inflict significant damage against tanks. It's not a problem with the vehicles-as-MCs system so much as the implementation.

What even is the point of FW and GW being separate entities, why is it not just all in the GW website? Is it because it provides some sort of mental separation that stops you asking why one is so much more expensive than the other

mrFickle wrote:
What even is the point of FW and GW being separate entities, why is it not just all in the GW website? Is it because it provides some sort of mental separation that stops you asking why one is so much more expensive than the other

Originally it was because they had different design teams and FW did stuff that wasn't profitable/possible to do in plastic or that the main studio just didn't have the bandwidth for but had the potential to be profitable as a botique product. These days with Bligh gone, the rules being managed by the main studio, the price differential increasingly shrinking or disappearing entirely, and a gargantuan amount of the FW catalog being OOP, it does beg the question...

Given that Forge World just rebranded their social media accounts to Horus Heresy, and have been slowly discontinuing 40K ranges, I think there's a good case to be made that GW is in the long-term planning to get FW out of 40K entirely and giving them exclusively specialist games. Not that I'm cheering for this or anything, but I can understand the logic- with plastic LoWs and aircraft being standard, we're not exactly in the same place we were in 2005, where FW was the one avenue for those types of model.

Separate design teams isn’t a good reason however GW operate internally they can still operate a single shop window. FW products might have sold better if they were on the GW website

Yeah it looks like FW is being pushed more towards specialist games for sure and out of 40k.

I totally agree that having them on the same site would be better, but they want to keep the sales channels separate. I'm not sure of the exact business reasons why, but for whatever reason GW has always treated FW products wildly differently, even so far as to make FW product unavailable to their retail stores or not count towards their sales goals when available, and unavailable to independents to purchase at any sort of dealer price. I suspect the volume was just too low to justify it most of the time, but I have no idea.

I had heard that a lot of FW stuff isn't even held in stock, it's made to order - specifically the bigger things, like the Manta.

If they do go to pure 30k, would it be too much to hope for xenos factions for their stuff?

I started the hobby in 2014. The change in forgeworlds releases, viability and the curbing of their catalog shows just how badly they've fallen.

You are honestly doing yourself a disservice in terms of VIABILITY to play with forge world models. It's a shame, as forgeworld used to have all the gak i REALLY REALLY WANTED.

I used to spend amounts of cash buying items from the FW H&H, IG, ork ranges.
Almost all this stuff is gone now.
It is a shame as these were superb minis and the lore is still some of the best ever
produced.

"From now on enjoy primaris and necron creep everyone!"

Yeah, sure...

 catbarf wrote:
Given that Forge World just rebranded their social media accounts to Horus Heresy, and have been slowly discontinuing 40K ranges, I think there's a good case to be made that GW is in the long-term planning to get FW out of 40K entirely and giving them exclusively specialist games. Not that I'm cheering for this or anything, but I can understand the logic- with plastic LoWs and aircraft being standard, we're not exactly in the same place we were in 2005, where FW was the one avenue for those types of model.

Fits with a landing page for "Warhammer Forge" being added to the GW website too: https://www.games-workshop.com/en-CA/Warhammer-Forge

I really hate how much limitations GW is causing the hobby to have in the game.

 Vaktathi wrote:

BlaxicanX wrote:Forgeworld will soon be dead.

So yes. Though armies like DKoK will probably survive.

I suspect even the DKoK are not long for this world at this rate. With half their kits OOP and two of their three lists already gone, the writing is on the wall methinks.

I think the fact that one of their lists is still around and semi-competitive is purely a fluke. It's like someone accidentally classified grenadiers as a core unit because it's a troop choice instead of a special elite unit and the deathriders just forgot to get a points hike all together after having their cost account for their lance. I mean, without those there is no reason to take them over normal guard.

 NoiseMarine with Tinnitus wrote:
The dis-continuation of the Vraksian lines of models and books was a damned travesty imo. Some of the best lore and minis produced - yep, biased as I play R&H.

Also, DKoK aren't necessarily safe. As far as I am aware still can't get Grenadiers. And they have been out of the picture for nigh on 2 years.

It's funny becuase grenadiers and deathriders are the only good dkok units now, while grenadiers are perpetually temporarily out of stock and the riders are reduced to being sold individually, if that.

EDIT: Just checked FW, apparently only rider 5 is still in stock. In fact, 4 of their 49 kits are still in stock, and they had much more than that 49 total kits not too long ago. This is the kind of support R&H had a the beginning of 8th. DKOK will be gone in 3 years, in fact they might be gone by the time the FW codices come out.

 Eipi10 wrote:

EDIT: Just checked FW, apparently only rider 5 is still in stock. In fact, 4 of their 49 kits are still in stock, and they had much more than that 49 total kits not too long ago. This is the kind of support R&H had a the beginning of 8th. DKOK will be gone in 3 years, in fact they might be gone by the time the FW codices come out.

I hate this kind of hyperbolic scaremongering. Most of their current kits are in stock on the U.K. webstore. The only things listed as temporarily out of stock are the army bundles.

DKOK are probably their biggest sellers aside from the HH stuff. I don’t see them going anywhere any time soon. They even specifically mentioned that they were looking forward to releasing the new rules for DKOK in one of their streams.

Huh, you're right. I wouldn't have thought to check the UK store. I wonder why there is such a regional difference. I mean, they only stopped shipping out of the UK two years ago, no other company seems to have a problem doing stuff like this.

 Eipi10 wrote:
Huh, you're right. I wouldn't have thought to check the UK store. I wonder why there is such a regional difference. I mean, they only stopped shipping out of the UK two years ago, no other company seems to have a problem doing stuff like this.

I always assumed they’d have a shipping base over in North America somewhere to warehouse most of the FW stock for distribution there. I’d imagine the global pandemic has hampered their operations somewhat.

 General Kroll wrote:

 Eipi10 wrote:
Huh, you're right. I wouldn't have thought to check the UK store. I wonder why there is such a regional difference. I mean, they only stopped shipping out of the UK two years ago, no other company seems to have a problem doing stuff like this.

I always assumed they’d have a shipping base over in North America somewhere to warehouse most of the FW stock for distribution there. I’d imagine the global pandemic has hampered their operations somewhat.

I’m pretty sure this is indeed the case.
The UK site seems to give the best idea of what’s going on with stock.


As a side note to FW dropping kits, I think AoS is the only real threat currently.
In the last year they have lost a ton of kits, including an entire army and a part of another one.
Either they won’t support new moulds for them or they are just removing them anyway.

Yes, FW has a distribution center in Memphis TN that opened up in 2018, the first (and only) one outside of the UK. This is why the US and Canada are the only countries with supply problems, but I won't harp on about how this is unacceptable for a multi-billion dollar company when far smaller ones are having little to no trouble.

As for AOS, I think they have only have had three released since AOS began, the stormcast heads and that one bull centaur, the only model in their character "series".

 Vaktathi wrote:

mrFickle wrote:
What even is the point of FW and GW being separate entities, why is it not just all in the GW website? Is it because it provides some sort of mental separation that stops you asking why one is so much more expensive than the other

Originally it was because they had different design teams and FW did stuff that wasn't profitable/possible to do in plastic or that the main studio just didn't have the bandwidth for but had the potential to be profitable as a botique product. These days with Bligh gone, the rules being managed by the main studio, the price differential increasingly shrinking or disappearing entirely, and a gargantuan amount of the FW catalog being OOP, it does beg the question...

I am not sure modern GW has ever really known what to do with forge world, Its been a weird mix of things going on 10 years now. For things like Eldar, That GW seems reluctant to really update. I think would do well, with Resin high quality aspects and such for a lower production need. Meet the markets in the middle at some point.

I also think there Finecast has harmed perception of resin so badly that even Forgeworld is seeing a hit. Its fairly often i see people That hate resin, but seem to be talking about the Finecast models they have got from GW. Without real Data its just a speculation from my own observation.

Forge world resin isn't great.
And most people that know resin from other parties involved in the miniature market laugh at GW's "premium quality" of resin.

Not Online!!! wrote:
Forge world resin isn't great.
And most people that know resin from other parties involved in the miniature market laugh at GW's "premium quality" of resin.

I have not got any forge world in years, so i would not know. But Finecast, ohh boy do that stuff make me sad D:

I get lots of resin in that is great to perfect cast, So its really just makes me sad when people only have experience with GW but use that as a mark against all resin miniatures.

Not Online!!! wrote:
Forge world resin isn't great.
And most people that know resin from other parties involved in the miniature market laugh at GW's "premium quality" of resin.

It’s honestly not the best, but it’s also not the worst.

I think mantic takes the worst spot with their restic hybrid.
Titanforge come a close second for me with terrible casts and endless waiting for deliveries.


Top one for me currently is mierce.
Never had a single poor cast from them.
I think the worst cast maybe had a few air bubbles and that was it.

Although this may be optimistic, I tend to believe the DKoK will be officially wrapped into the next AM codex. Of all the non-codex AM armies the DKoK gets the most recognition. For example, on the official 40k website galaxy map, the planet of Krieg is labeled under AM with only the other codex armies. I'm not sure what this means for their FW models, maybe they will get the GW plastic treatment? AM is super long overdue for new model sculpts. It would be a missed cash-grab opportunity by GW to just delete the DKoK. GW has to recognize how lucrative the DKoK has been for FW over the years.

- Crabbit

 Crabbit wrote:
Although this may be optimistic, I tend to believe the DKoK will be officially wrapped into the next AM codex. Of all the non-codex AM armies the DKoK gets the most recognition. For example, on the official 40k website galaxy map, the planet of Krieg is labeled under AM with only the other codex armies. I'm not sure what this means for their FW models, maybe they will get the GW plastic treatment? AM is super long overdue for new model sculpts. It would be a missed cash-grab opportunity by GW to just delete the DKoK. GW has to recognize how lucrative the DKoK has been for FW over the years.

- Crabbit

I definitely agree it would be a good cash grab. Delete the Forgeworld models to make room for more specialist game stuff, and sell Kreig in plastic to a market that previously was turned off by the price tag. I like it!

I feel they should do other Guard stuff, but this would probably generate a good amount of money. (At least from me! )

As much as I'd love to see the DKoK stuff get more support, I'd be shocked if they got made plastic, I suspect GW would make an entirely new regiment based on a similar aesthetic if that were to happen. New IG models would definitely be appreciated, but GW would likely want a far more trademarkable name if nothing else.

 Vaktathi wrote:
New IG models would definitely be appreciated

A full set of RT era guard units would be nice, especially the officers and such.

I'm still mystified that GW hasn't made a greatcoat line (all they really need is 3 sprues: infantry, command, heavy) either with multiple head styles to fit different regiments or with head packs the same way marines and GSC now have ones. Like, obviously it would take a lot of engineering, but 3ish boxes could open up steel legion, valhallans, vostroyans, death korps, etc.