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I dont think the staffers reply was entirely without merit as I did indeed reply to them in a slightly passive aggressive manner ("apologizing for the inconvenience my behaviour will cause"). But I never did threaten anyone with acts of piracy nor copyright infringement. I work in media and deal with creative commercial content on a daily basis, I know copyright laws well enough and always respect them, as it is also a part of my day job description to do so. I have also worked in customer service, so do not want to share the awkward back and forth, its not reasonable for either of us. We all human.

Anyways, my document scanning is progressing well. I have already learned how to crop and OCR today, and incidentally am now recreating the rulebook in my Pages app. Its all coming along nicely, the index works and the resulting document is completely searchable. It's going to be a lot of work but for me, the end result is going to be worth it.

beast_gts wrote:

AdmiralHalsey wrote:
Is there any chance you could publish a copy of your response from GW?

I would like to email them regarding it and ask for an offical comment on why their customer relations department is harassing its actual paying customers with threats of legal action for things that are not crimes under the law of the country it operates in.

Not trying to defend GW, but - they bought the book second-hand so are they still a paying customer?

He is still legal owner of a rulessource. The idea that you buy but not buy something is something Software but especially the gaming industry attempts to force through.

Hey, I'm not the one forcing my customers to buy physical rulebooks here. As long as GW is adamant about not selling digital, which can be sold as licences instead of physical items which can be owned indefinitely, this is how its gonna be.

Funniest thing is, I'm not even sure one is allowed to legally resell digital ebooks second hand...

beast_gts wrote:

AdmiralHalsey wrote:
Is there any chance you could publish a copy of your response from GW?

I would like to email them regarding it and ask for an offical comment on why their customer relations department is harassing its actual paying customers with threats of legal action for things that are not crimes under the law of the country it operates in.

Not trying to defend GW, but - they bought the book second-hand so are they still a paying customer?

I assume the individual owns a number of models with which to play the game and I doubt they were all brought second hand, but I could of course be mistaken.

AdmiralHalsey wrote:

beast_gts wrote:

AdmiralHalsey wrote:
Is there any chance you could publish a copy of your response from GW?

I would like to email them regarding it and ask for an offical comment on why their customer relations department is harassing its actual paying customers with threats of legal action for things that are not crimes under the law of the country it operates in.

Not trying to defend GW, but - they bought the book second-hand so are they still a paying customer?

I assume the individual owns a number of models with which to play the game and I doubt they were all brought second hand, but I could of course be mistaken.

I spend around 50-300€ a month on GW and Forge World, so this aint about money or boycotting the entirety of the companies. It's about being frustrated about denied access to a specific GW-made ruleset while all their other rulesets are available as digital ebooks and continue to be released in such formats, the most recent of these releases being "Necromunda - House of Blades".

Seems like I'm the only one so upset about this situation. I guess I'll just have to hope that the 40K app will do poorly and will get discontinued soon, since that's what it would apparently take to regain access to digital rulebooks.

In the meantime, at least I am learning how to "digitize" physical books properly.

Is that a no to sharing their correspondance with you?

AdmiralHalsey wrote:
Is that a no to sharing their correspondance with you?

I'd rather not. Errare humanum est

 tauist wrote:
Right now, my personal course of action in resisting this availability restriction has been denying further rulebook sales from GW by purchasing my 9th edition rulebooks second hand, and scanning them into digital format myself. I have also canceled my subscription of the 40K app, and have informed Warhammer Digital what I have done and that I will try to encourage other customers to do the same if they are upset about not being offered a legal way of purchasing the rulebook content in digital format.

Highlighted the relevant part why they probably contacted their lawyers.

 tauist wrote:
Seems like I'm the only one so upset about this situation. I guess I'll just have to hope that the 40K app will do poorly and will get discontinued soon, since that's what it would apparently take to regain access to digital rulebooks.

I'm with you on that.
I've cancelled my sub. The app Ts&Cs say can be done in the website but the option is not there, and email is the only option.
The layout and format of the app's 8th ed content is not good, and I'm not using any of it yet anyway.
So, if the digital codexes don't turn up later in the year, I'll be sticking with 8th ed codexes for a while longer.

 tauist wrote:


Seems like I'm the only one so upset about this situation. I guess I'll just have to hope that the 40K app will do poorly and will get discontinued soon, since that's what it would apparently take to regain access to digital rulebooks.

In the meantime, at least I am learning how to "digitize" physical books properly.

I don't believe you are the only person upset about this, and I do think that a petition would be a good idea. The petition, to stand any chance of success, needs to be framed positively in terms of wanting greater consumer choice as to how we give them our money.

However, your spat with GW over scanning your book does nothing to assist this cause, they simply won't listen to snark and threats,

But if you do own an original book you can make copy of it, you just can't sell it. What can GW get angry about here. It is like buying GW models to buy your own molds to make recasts of them for yourself.

Karol wrote:
But if you do own an original book you can make copy of it, you just can't sell it. What can GW get angry about here. It is like buying GW models to buy your own molds to make recasts of them for yourself.

EHHH not quite the same,books, often in lieu to knowledge they contain are treated diffrently to regular goods.

That said, indeed, so long you don't use them commercially, or mutiply them to hand out most Free use laws protect you.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

 harlokin wrote:

 tauist wrote:


Seems like I'm the only one so upset about this situation. I guess I'll just have to hope that the 40K app will do poorly and will get discontinued soon, since that's what it would apparently take to regain access to digital rulebooks.

In the meantime, at least I am learning how to "digitize" physical books properly.

I don't believe you are the only person upset about this, and I do think that a petition would be a good idea. The petition, to stand any chance of success, needs to be framed positively in terms of wanting greater consumer choice as to how we give them our money.

However, your spat with GW over scanning your book does nothing to assist this cause, they simply won't listen to snark and threats,

It's funny, i thought to think the same way, with my R&H , i got ignored for all of 8th in regards to FAQ or CA, or simple structure, when i demanded reimbursement because the product was faulty that did provoke a reaction, one which i didn't even get before.

Karol wrote:
But if you do own an original book you can make copy of it, you just can't sell it. What can GW get angry about here. It is like buying GW models to buy your own molds to make recasts of them for yourself.

Laws on personal copies doesn't work the same in every country, and I'm fairly sure that there is no law explicitly allowing you to make "backup copies" of models.

 harlokin wrote:

 tauist wrote:


Seems like I'm the only one so upset about this situation. I guess I'll just have to hope that the 40K app will do poorly and will get discontinued soon, since that's what it would apparently take to regain access to digital rulebooks.

In the meantime, at least I am learning how to "digitize" physical books properly.

I don't believe you are the only person upset about this, and I do think that a petition would be a good idea. The petition, to stand any chance of success, needs to be framed positively in terms of wanting greater consumer choice as to how we give them our money.

However, your spat with GW over scanning your book does nothing to assist this cause, they simply won't listen to snark and threats,

I do not understand what all the fuss is about. Just buy the physical books. Part of the hobby is enjoying the physical books imo, and reading and enjoying the content. Doing it on a phone or a computer is not the same thing. Your missing out honestly.

 Crusaderobr wrote:
I do not understand what all the fuss is about. Just buy the physical books. Part of the hobby is enjoying the physical books imo, and reading and enjoying the content. Doing it on a phone or a computer is not the same thing. Your missing out honestly.

Part of the hobby is also buying models from GW stores. Let's ban people buying models off eBay!

 Crusaderobr wrote:
I do not understand what all the fuss is about. Just buy the physical books. Part of the hobby is enjoying the physical books imo, and reading and enjoying the content. Doing it on a phone or a computer is not the same thing. Your missing out honestly.

"I don't understand why other people have different preferences or needs" is unlikely to persuade anyone.

I'd rather petition that the codex stays valid all edition.

 Gangland wrote:
I'd rather petition that the codex stays valid all edition.

you say that but if everyone else gets a new codex and your army is behind the power curve........

BrianDavion wrote:

 Gangland wrote:
I'd rather petition that the codex stays valid all edition.

you say that but if everyone else gets a new codex and your army is behind the power curve........

A power curbed solely on gw's making with spread Releases.

Not Online!!! wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

 Gangland wrote:
I'd rather petition that the codex stays valid all edition.

you say that but if everyone else gets a new codex and your army is behind the power curve........

A power curbed solely on gw's making with spread Releases.

You are assuming that GW would manage to make balanced codices even if they all released them at the same time

 Jidmah wrote:

Not Online!!! wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

 Gangland wrote:
I'd rather petition that the codex stays valid all edition.

you say that but if everyone else gets a new codex and your army is behind the power curve........

A power curbed solely on gw's making with spread Releases.

You are assuming that GW would manage to make balanced codices even if they all released them at the same time

Am willing to say that they have the capabilities to do so and further improve , if their greed wouldn't stand in the way.
Also considering the playtesters Played with all dexes and found it to be satiafying i think there would be a good Chance that yes indeed they did a good job.

Eh. They would spend 90% of the effort on space marines, guard and maybe two other current favorites and them rush all the other codices as usual.

Maybe just make the codex for the NPC races that sell worse free online, maybe doing limited editions which are printed, and maybe bundle them with something people will want to get. For example a faction terrain pice, you can only get for the first 6 months with the LE box.

And then the real money makers in form of various sm books would stay printed with a code for the digital version. And of course there would be a LE box too, also coming with the faction terrain pice.

Not Online!!! wrote:

 tauist wrote:
I just received a new reply from Warhammer Digital. They now claim that I am advocating pirating their IP and that GW law department will be in touch with me shortly. According to them, I "threatened" them I would share my PDF scans on the internet, while I never said that is what I would do. Neither is it something that I'm ever going to do. I replied to them that it is my understanding that I am allowed to scan my personal property to PDF format for my own personal use under EU law, but we'll see how it goes..

This is getting a little ridiculous.

So, let me get this straight, you bought a book second hand, FOR your own USE you digitalised it and ARE NOT distributing it.
You have informed GW that you did this and the cancelation of your subscription because A : APP is terrible and controlling B: there are no digitial PDF alternatives distributed anymore, and now they are calling their lawyers for that?

i mean talk about laying your priorites bare to see for everyone...

I mean, this is a company that tried to ban 40k tattoos due to IP infringement.

Not sure how precisely they planned to enforce that rule, short of issuing every store manager with a Citadel Cheese Grater.

 vipoid wrote:

Not Online!!! wrote:

 tauist wrote:
I just received a new reply from Warhammer Digital. They now claim that I am advocating pirating their IP and that GW law department will be in touch with me shortly. According to them, I "threatened" them I would share my PDF scans on the internet, while I never said that is what I would do. Neither is it something that I'm ever going to do. I replied to them that it is my understanding that I am allowed to scan my personal property to PDF format for my own personal use under EU law, but we'll see how it goes..

This is getting a little ridiculous.

So, let me get this straight, you bought a book second hand, FOR your own USE you digitalised it and ARE NOT distributing it.
You have informed GW that you did this and the cancelation of your subscription because A : APP is terrible and controlling B: there are no digitial PDF alternatives distributed anymore, and now they are calling their lawyers for that?

i mean talk about laying your priorites bare to see for everyone...

I mean, this is a company that tried to ban 40k tattoos due to IP infringement.

Not sure how precisely they planned to enforce that rule, short of issuing every store manager with a Citadel Cheese Grater.

They can enforce it at tattoo artists, it’s infringement to produce the art and sell it. But most places are fairly lose about trying to enforce it, Often it’s tattoo artists themselves that are stopping others from reproducing there work. Sometimes it’s a bit of a sliding scale on how legal something like this is, specific cases rather than full enforcement.
This is all subject to local laws as well

Apple fox wrote:

 vipoid wrote:

Not Online!!! wrote:

 tauist wrote:
I just received a new reply from Warhammer Digital. They now claim that I am advocating pirating their IP and that GW law department will be in touch with me shortly. According to them, I "threatened" them I would share my PDF scans on the internet, while I never said that is what I would do. Neither is it something that I'm ever going to do. I replied to them that it is my understanding that I am allowed to scan my personal property to PDF format for my own personal use under EU law, but we'll see how it goes..

This is getting a little ridiculous.

So, let me get this straight, you bought a book second hand, FOR your own USE you digitalised it and ARE NOT distributing it.
You have informed GW that you did this and the cancelation of your subscription because A : APP is terrible and controlling B: there are no digitial PDF alternatives distributed anymore, and now they are calling their lawyers for that?

i mean talk about laying your priorites bare to see for everyone...

I mean, this is a company that tried to ban 40k tattoos due to IP infringement.

Not sure how precisely they planned to enforce that rule, short of issuing every store manager with a Citadel Cheese Grater.

They can enforce it at tattoo artists, it’s infringement to produce the art and sell it. But most places are fairly lose about trying to enforce it, Often it’s tattoo artists themselves that are stopping others from reproducing there work. Sometimes it’s a bit of a sliding scale on how legal something like this is, specific cases rather than full enforcement.
This is all subject to local laws as well

I mean, is there better advertisement then one you didn't even pay for?

Not Online!!! wrote:

Apple fox wrote:

 vipoid wrote:

Not Online!!! wrote:

 tauist wrote:
I just received a new reply from Warhammer Digital. They now claim that I am advocating pirating their IP and that GW law department will be in touch with me shortly. According to them, I "threatened" them I would share my PDF scans on the internet, while I never said that is what I would do. Neither is it something that I'm ever going to do. I replied to them that it is my understanding that I am allowed to scan my personal property to PDF format for my own personal use under EU law, but we'll see how it goes..

This is getting a little ridiculous.

So, let me get this straight, you bought a book second hand, FOR your own USE you digitalised it and ARE NOT distributing it.
You have informed GW that you did this and the cancelation of your subscription because A : APP is terrible and controlling B: there are no digitial PDF alternatives distributed anymore, and now they are calling their lawyers for that?

i mean talk about laying your priorites bare to see for everyone...

I mean, this is a company that tried to ban 40k tattoos due to IP infringement.

Not sure how precisely they planned to enforce that rule, short of issuing every store manager with a Citadel Cheese Grater.

They can enforce it at tattoo artists, it’s infringement to produce the art and sell it. But most places are fairly lose about trying to enforce it, Often it’s tattoo artists themselves that are stopping others from reproducing there work. Sometimes it’s a bit of a sliding scale on how legal something like this is, specific cases rather than full enforcement.
This is all subject to local laws as well

I mean, is there better advertisement then one you didn't even pay for?

Depends on the advertisement, I can think of about 15 tattoo related cases in recent times. It’s also why I mentioned reproduced work as well, art theft still sucks if it’s a tattoo. And even with these big company often artist themselves still retain some rights to the images.

To the thread at hand, It’s a bit sad if they stop digital all together for 40. The apps they have done are really avg at best, probably the best way to go about it is to encourage people to review the app and email GW about it.

 Crusaderobr wrote:
I do not understand what all the fuss is about. Just buy the physical books. Part of the hobby is enjoying the physical books imo, and reading and enjoying the content. Doing it on a phone or a computer is not the same thing. Your missing out honestly.

I'll tell you what the fuss is about. I have an abundance of redundant materiel in my house. A bookshelf full of books no-one ever reads, a few hundred vinyls and CD's which rarely get any play (there's some that get listens, but they are a minority by far). I DON'T NEED more redundant physical stuff. I have been doing all my reading from my iPad (Phones dont cut it, too small screens to comfortably read on) since 2014 (newspapers, magazines, books, www pages, the whole lot) and its gotten to a point where I've decided I dont have any need for physical books in my life anymore..They are heavy, thay take space and resources are wasted just so they exist.

To match your analogy - I do not understand what all this fuss about physical books is about. Just buy the files man. Part of the hobby is using the latest dataslate technology for your miniature wargaming in 020.M2, and enjoying the content. Doing it with raped bits of dying forests is not the same thing, and sounds terribly anachronistic. You're missing out srsly.