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Made in ca
Longtime Dakkanaut





I don't understand people that say "GW should just release ALL the rules, not piece-meal!" as if:
- GW has everything already written up for every faction until 10th edition, and they're just sitting on it.
- releasing all the rules for free will mean that GW can function as a business.
- releasing all the rules at once, and then nothing for 2 years, would be interesting and would make people more interested in the game instead of growing bored with a stale environment.

 Galef wrote:
If you refuse to use rock, you will never beat scissors.
 
   
Made in ca
Legendary Master of the Chapter





tneva82 wrote:
Ah yes. Another "let's wait' claim. Never mind in 20 years those claims have always been incorrect.

Never get bored of being wrong eh


except in this point the wait and see people have indeed been vindicated, because for all the panic.. it would seem that.. there are indeed nerfs in the upcoming marines codex.

Opinions are not facts please don't confuse the two 
   
Made in ca
Longtime Dakkanaut






I like some of the changes I've seen with 9th, however. I do have a problem with being drip fed information about the armies that I play. I understand that things will change in this game but If I really think they should have updated all the current armies/models with the new rules via Chapter Approved like they did at the beginning of 8th, but for free until they get around to producing the Codex's. As it stands, I refuse to purchase things until I see what I can make an army out of and honestly, if the game is in constant flux. I cant be bothered to put the effort, time and money into something I know will be obscelete within 2 years because I probably won't even get around to painting it by that point.

Bottom line is, GW needs to slow the feth down with their release schedule and at least bring all current armies/models up to speed when they release a new edition until the codexes come out.

Square Bases for Life!
AoS is pure garbage
Kill Primaris, Kill the Primarchs. They don't belong in 40K
40K is fantasy in space, not sci-fi 
   
Made in us
Fresh-Faced New User





If I see another contemptor dreadnought, I'm going to frown intensely at my opponent...

But in my mind, I'm throwing it against a wall.
   
Made in us
Ancient Ultramarine Venerable Dreadnought






BrianDavion wrote:
Spoiler:
 CommanderWalrus wrote:
 vipoid wrote:
 CommanderWalrus wrote:

We're in a really weird spot right now. We have a lot of rules and information about 9th edition out and about, but I would like to remind everyone that none of the codexes have come out yet. We're in the "index era" of the current edition, and it is really too early to make judgment about most things.


Is it worth mentioning that we could easily have all the rules if GW didn't insist on forcing people to pay through the nose for them?

Pretty much every other wargame I'm aware of has free, downloadable rules. If GW went that route, they could release the rules for every faction right at the start of each edition - because they wouldn't have to be (re)printing entire codices for each faction.

Furthermore, it would allow GW to still do gradual model releases, without even having to worry about being beaten to the post by 3rd party manufacturers - as they could simply add new dataslates to the online rules (which is a lot trickier when you're expecting people to purchase physical rulebooks).

I mean, they could still sell some rulebooks for those who want all the extra fluff (or who just prefer physical rules), but it wouldn't matter as much if different factions got their physical books later in the edition.


I know it's not exactly what you were talking about. However, when someone defends GW by saying 'we don't know all the rules yet', it seems reasonable to ask 'well whose fault is that?'.

It is a good point, and I do think it's completely ridiculous exactly how many books you need, a number that increases constantly. It could be so much easier if GW was willing to release rules a little faster and maybe for a little cheaper, i agree.
It is worth noting that I'm not exactly defending GW, so kuch as just trying to caution fellow fans to not speak too soon.


"WHY WON'T THEY GIVE ME FREE STUUUUF!"
isn't a good point. we've GOT the rules right now, 8th and 9th are cross compatable. most of the complaints about rules are people jumping to the gun about upcoming products, ones they have incomplete info about.
If we have all the rules, then what are we waiting for?
   
Made in ca
Legendary Master of the Chapter





 Insectum7 wrote:
BrianDavion wrote:
Spoiler:
 CommanderWalrus wrote:
 vipoid wrote:
 CommanderWalrus wrote:

We're in a really weird spot right now. We have a lot of rules and information about 9th edition out and about, but I would like to remind everyone that none of the codexes have come out yet. We're in the "index era" of the current edition, and it is really too early to make judgment about most things.


Is it worth mentioning that we could easily have all the rules if GW didn't insist on forcing people to pay through the nose for them?

Pretty much every other wargame I'm aware of has free, downloadable rules. If GW went that route, they could release the rules for every faction right at the start of each edition - because they wouldn't have to be (re)printing entire codices for each faction.

Furthermore, it would allow GW to still do gradual model releases, without even having to worry about being beaten to the post by 3rd party manufacturers - as they could simply add new dataslates to the online rules (which is a lot trickier when you're expecting people to purchase physical rulebooks).

I mean, they could still sell some rulebooks for those who want all the extra fluff (or who just prefer physical rules), but it wouldn't matter as much if different factions got their physical books later in the edition.


I know it's not exactly what you were talking about. However, when someone defends GW by saying 'we don't know all the rules yet', it seems reasonable to ask 'well whose fault is that?'.

It is a good point, and I do think it's completely ridiculous exactly how many books you need, a number that increases constantly. It could be so much easier if GW was willing to release rules a little faster and maybe for a little cheaper, i agree.
It is worth noting that I'm not exactly defending GW, so kuch as just trying to caution fellow fans to not speak too soon.


"WHY WON'T THEY GIVE ME FREE STUUUUF!"
isn't a good point. we've GOT the rules right now, 8th and 9th are cross compatable. most of the complaints about rules are people jumping to the gun about upcoming products, ones they have incomplete info about.
If we have all the rules, then what are we waiting for?


in this case the codices. 99% of the complaining has been about marines, when there's a new marine codex coming up in likely less then a month (I suspect the codex will be first week of October) waiting until we have a bit more info for that does seem wise. but too many people are assuming it'll be a straight buff of the last codex.
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




Annandale, VA

 Yarium wrote:
- GW has everything already written up for every faction until 10th edition, and they're just sitting on it.


Playtesters were supposedly working with 9th Ed codices before the launch of 9th. The lead time on print products is very long, and the rules could feasibly be complete long before the full typesetting is, let alone before it goes to print.

I guarantee that even if the rules weren't all written in advance, the rules for all the codices releasing through at least June of next year (9 mos) have already been written.

 Yarium wrote:
- releasing all the rules for free will mean that GW can function as a business.


How much do you suppose GW is actually earning on books? With their constant business focus on being a models company first and foremost, I can't see codex sales being crucial to their business model. That's not even taking into account the reduced barrier to entry when an army's rules can be previewed before buying in, or the fact that I'm sure plenty of fans would buy a hard copy even if the rules were available for free online; not to mention the players who want new codices for the lore.

Other companies with a lot less financial security than GW make it work; I see no reason GW can't.

 Yarium wrote:
- releasing all the rules at once, and then nothing for 2 years, would be interesting and would make people more interested in the game instead of growing bored with a stale environment.


Giving GW two whole years to iteratively balance the game through FAQs and points adjustments- rather than constantly playing catch-up to an ever-evolving meta- might mean we'd actually get a consistently good play experience out of it and a tight ruleset by the end.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2020/09/19 02:21:52


 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




 Insectum7 wrote:
BrianDavion wrote:
Spoiler:
 CommanderWalrus wrote:
 vipoid wrote:
 CommanderWalrus wrote:

We're in a really weird spot right now. We have a lot of rules and information about 9th edition out and about, but I would like to remind everyone that none of the codexes have come out yet. We're in the "index era" of the current edition, and it is really too early to make judgment about most things.


Is it worth mentioning that we could easily have all the rules if GW didn't insist on forcing people to pay through the nose for them?

Pretty much every other wargame I'm aware of has free, downloadable rules. If GW went that route, they could release the rules for every faction right at the start of each edition - because they wouldn't have to be (re)printing entire codices for each faction.

Furthermore, it would allow GW to still do gradual model releases, without even having to worry about being beaten to the post by 3rd party manufacturers - as they could simply add new dataslates to the online rules (which is a lot trickier when you're expecting people to purchase physical rulebooks).

I mean, they could still sell some rulebooks for those who want all the extra fluff (or who just prefer physical rules), but it wouldn't matter as much if different factions got their physical books later in the edition.


I know it's not exactly what you were talking about. However, when someone defends GW by saying 'we don't know all the rules yet', it seems reasonable to ask 'well whose fault is that?'.

It is a good point, and I do think it's completely ridiculous exactly how many books you need, a number that increases constantly. It could be so much easier if GW was willing to release rules a little faster and maybe for a little cheaper, i agree.
It is worth noting that I'm not exactly defending GW, so kuch as just trying to caution fellow fans to not speak too soon.


"WHY WON'T THEY GIVE ME FREE STUUUUF!"
isn't a good point. we've GOT the rules right now, 8th and 9th are cross compatable. most of the complaints about rules are people jumping to the gun about upcoming products, ones they have incomplete info about.
If we have all the rules, then what are we waiting for?


Lol, checkmate. Well played.

   
Made in us
Ancient Ultramarine Venerable Dreadnought






BrianDavion wrote:
 Insectum7 wrote:
BrianDavion wrote:
Spoiler:
 CommanderWalrus wrote:
 vipoid wrote:
 CommanderWalrus wrote:

We're in a really weird spot right now. We have a lot of rules and information about 9th edition out and about, but I would like to remind everyone that none of the codexes have come out yet. We're in the "index era" of the current edition, and it is really too early to make judgment about most things.


Is it worth mentioning that we could easily have all the rules if GW didn't insist on forcing people to pay through the nose for them?

Pretty much every other wargame I'm aware of has free, downloadable rules. If GW went that route, they could release the rules for every faction right at the start of each edition - because they wouldn't have to be (re)printing entire codices for each faction.

Furthermore, it would allow GW to still do gradual model releases, without even having to worry about being beaten to the post by 3rd party manufacturers - as they could simply add new dataslates to the online rules (which is a lot trickier when you're expecting people to purchase physical rulebooks).

I mean, they could still sell some rulebooks for those who want all the extra fluff (or who just prefer physical rules), but it wouldn't matter as much if different factions got their physical books later in the edition.


I know it's not exactly what you were talking about. However, when someone defends GW by saying 'we don't know all the rules yet', it seems reasonable to ask 'well whose fault is that?'.

It is a good point, and I do think it's completely ridiculous exactly how many books you need, a number that increases constantly. It could be so much easier if GW was willing to release rules a little faster and maybe for a little cheaper, i agree.
It is worth noting that I'm not exactly defending GW, so kuch as just trying to caution fellow fans to not speak too soon.


"WHY WON'T THEY GIVE ME FREE STUUUUF!"
isn't a good point. we've GOT the rules right now, 8th and 9th are cross compatable. most of the complaints about rules are people jumping to the gun about upcoming products, ones they have incomplete info about.
If we have all the rules, then what are we waiting for?


in this case the codices. 99% of the complaining has been about marines, when there's a new marine codex coming up in likely less then a month (I suspect the codex will be first week of October) waiting until we have a bit more info for that does seem wise. but too many people are assuming it'll be a straight buff of the last codex.
Oh! So if we have the codecies, and we see previews that look out of balance with other codecies (like 2w marines) can we complain about the disparity between the previewed marines and the other codexes that we're currently playing with? There might be some nerfs to marines in the marine codex, but we're plainly getting 2w marines and at the same time using 1w orks, aspect warriors and genestealers. Because we have all the rules, right?
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





 Insectum7 wrote:
BrianDavion wrote:
 Insectum7 wrote:
BrianDavion wrote:
Spoiler:
 CommanderWalrus wrote:
 vipoid wrote:
 CommanderWalrus wrote:

We're in a really weird spot right now. We have a lot of rules and information about 9th edition out and about, but I would like to remind everyone that none of the codexes have come out yet. We're in the "index era" of the current edition, and it is really too early to make judgment about most things.


Is it worth mentioning that we could easily have all the rules if GW didn't insist on forcing people to pay through the nose for them?

Pretty much every other wargame I'm aware of has free, downloadable rules. If GW went that route, they could release the rules for every faction right at the start of each edition - because they wouldn't have to be (re)printing entire codices for each faction.

Furthermore, it would allow GW to still do gradual model releases, without even having to worry about being beaten to the post by 3rd party manufacturers - as they could simply add new dataslates to the online rules (which is a lot trickier when you're expecting people to purchase physical rulebooks).

I mean, they could still sell some rulebooks for those who want all the extra fluff (or who just prefer physical rules), but it wouldn't matter as much if different factions got their physical books later in the edition.


I know it's not exactly what you were talking about. However, when someone defends GW by saying 'we don't know all the rules yet', it seems reasonable to ask 'well whose fault is that?'.

It is a good point, and I do think it's completely ridiculous exactly how many books you need, a number that increases constantly. It could be so much easier if GW was willing to release rules a little faster and maybe for a little cheaper, i agree.
It is worth noting that I'm not exactly defending GW, so kuch as just trying to caution fellow fans to not speak too soon.


"WHY WON'T THEY GIVE ME FREE STUUUUF!"
isn't a good point. we've GOT the rules right now, 8th and 9th are cross compatable. most of the complaints about rules are people jumping to the gun about upcoming products, ones they have incomplete info about.
If we have all the rules, then what are we waiting for?


in this case the codices. 99% of the complaining has been about marines, when there's a new marine codex coming up in likely less then a month (I suspect the codex will be first week of October) waiting until we have a bit more info for that does seem wise. but too many people are assuming it'll be a straight buff of the last codex.
Oh! So if we have the codecies, and we see previews that look out of balance with other codecies (like 2w marines) can we complain about the disparity between the previewed marines and the other codexes that we're currently playing with? There might be some nerfs to marines in the marine codex, but we're plainly getting 2w marines and at the same time using 1w orks, aspect warriors and genestealers. Because we have all the rules, right?


We have enough rules to play. And certainly enough to play an engaging game versus most opponents. For some reason the more tournaments feature the fewer marines we see. Right now in the upside-down of Australia a podcaster is taking Nid hordes to a tournament. He beat 9 Eradicator Salamanders 83 to 58. Clearly a skew, but then if 9 Eradicators can't handle a simple skew and the horde can still place top tables then maybe the game doesn't work as the forum dictates. Maybe it is that he got first turn. We literally don't know.

So, why should you wait to draw conclusions? Because it isn't the same god damn dog and pony show.

When is the last time GW screwed something up with an FAQ and fixed it the same day?
When is the last time GW published a tournament-level mission set and didn't have competing mission sets like like Eternal & Maelstrom?
When is the last time you saw a fundamental rule dynamic like CORE that wasn't in the BRB? Even stratagems were there.

We don't know what will happen with the new book. We don't know how they'll handle new secondaries. Normally we'd have the first codexes out by now, but we don't. There are literally fundamental changes in those codexes.

You and I know nothing, but pretending to know something without all the information is just god damn intellectually dishonest now, isn't it? People that piss all over people who say, "just wait until we have all the info" just makes them donkey-caves.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/09/19 04:18:58


 
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut




 Daedalus81 wrote:
 Insectum7 wrote:
BrianDavion wrote:
 Insectum7 wrote:
BrianDavion wrote:
Spoiler:
 CommanderWalrus wrote:
 vipoid wrote:
 CommanderWalrus wrote:

We're in a really weird spot right now. We have a lot of rules and information about 9th edition out and about, but I would like to remind everyone that none of the codexes have come out yet. We're in the "index era" of the current edition, and it is really too early to make judgment about most things.


Is it worth mentioning that we could easily have all the rules if GW didn't insist on forcing people to pay through the nose for them?

Pretty much every other wargame I'm aware of has free, downloadable rules. If GW went that route, they could release the rules for every faction right at the start of each edition - because they wouldn't have to be (re)printing entire codices for each faction.

Furthermore, it would allow GW to still do gradual model releases, without even having to worry about being beaten to the post by 3rd party manufacturers - as they could simply add new dataslates to the online rules (which is a lot trickier when you're expecting people to purchase physical rulebooks).

I mean, they could still sell some rulebooks for those who want all the extra fluff (or who just prefer physical rules), but it wouldn't matter as much if different factions got their physical books later in the edition.


I know it's not exactly what you were talking about. However, when someone defends GW by saying 'we don't know all the rules yet', it seems reasonable to ask 'well whose fault is that?'.

It is a good point, and I do think it's completely ridiculous exactly how many books you need, a number that increases constantly. It could be so much easier if GW was willing to release rules a little faster and maybe for a little cheaper, i agree.
It is worth noting that I'm not exactly defending GW, so kuch as just trying to caution fellow fans to not speak too soon.


"WHY WON'T THEY GIVE ME FREE STUUUUF!"
isn't a good point. we've GOT the rules right now, 8th and 9th are cross compatable. most of the complaints about rules are people jumping to the gun about upcoming products, ones they have incomplete info about.
If we have all the rules, then what are we waiting for?


in this case the codices. 99% of the complaining has been about marines, when there's a new marine codex coming up in likely less then a month (I suspect the codex will be first week of October) waiting until we have a bit more info for that does seem wise. but too many people are assuming it'll be a straight buff of the last codex.
Oh! So if we have the codecies, and we see previews that look out of balance with other codecies (like 2w marines) can we complain about the disparity between the previewed marines and the other codexes that we're currently playing with? There might be some nerfs to marines in the marine codex, but we're plainly getting 2w marines and at the same time using 1w orks, aspect warriors and genestealers. Because we have all the rules, right?


We have enough rules to play. And certainly enough to play an engaging game versus most opponents. For some reason the more tournaments feature the fewer marines we see. Right now in the upside-down of Australia a podcaster is taking Nid hordes to a tournament. He beat 9 Eradicator Salamanders 83 to 58. Clearly a skew, but then if 9 Eradicators can't handle a simple skew and the horde can still place top tables then maybe the game doesn't work as the forum dictates. Maybe it is that he got first turn. We literally don't know.

So, why should you wait to draw conclusions? Because it isn't the same god damn dog and pony show.

When is the last time GW screwed something up with an FAQ and fixed it the same day?
When is the last time GW published a tournament-level mission set and didn't have competing mission sets like like Eternal & Maelstrom?
When is the last time you saw a fundamental rule dynamic like CORE that wasn't in the BRB? Even stratagems were there.

We don't know what will happen with the new book. We don't know how they'll handle new secondaries. Normally we'd have the first codexes out by now, but we don't. There are literally fundamental changes in those codexes.

You and I know nothing, but pretending to know something without all the information is just god damn intellectually dishonest now, isn't it? People that piss all over people who say, "just wait until we have all the info" just makes them donkey-caves.


We have enough info about the habits of GW themselves, so that's strike one for you.
   
Made in us
Scarred Ultramarine Tyrannic War Veteran





 Yarium wrote:
I don't understand people that say "GW should just release ALL the rules, not piece-meal!" as if:
- GW has everything already written up for every faction until 10th edition, and they're just sitting on it.
If they don't already, and I agree they probably don't they should have before they released the 9e BRB. If the old book is going to stick around fine, no need to rerelease a new one, but any faction getting a new codex should get a new codex on the same day.

- releasing all the rules for free will mean that GW can function as a business.
- releasing all the rules at once, and then nothing for 2 years, would be interesting and would make people more interested in the game instead of growing bored with a stale environment.

My WHFB armies were Bretonians and Tomb Kings. 
   
Made in us
Ancient Ultramarine Venerable Dreadnought






 Daedalus81 wrote:
Spoiler:
 Insectum7 wrote:
BrianDavion wrote:
 Insectum7 wrote:
BrianDavion wrote:
 CommanderWalrus wrote:
 vipoid wrote:
 CommanderWalrus wrote:

We're in a really weird spot right now. We have a lot of rules and information about 9th edition out and about, but I would like to remind everyone that none of the codexes have come out yet. We're in the "index era" of the current edition, and it is really too early to make judgment about most things.


Is it worth mentioning that we could easily have all the rules if GW didn't insist on forcing people to pay through the nose for them?

Pretty much every other wargame I'm aware of has free, downloadable rules. If GW went that route, they could release the rules for every faction right at the start of each edition - because they wouldn't have to be (re)printing entire codices for each faction.

Furthermore, it would allow GW to still do gradual model releases, without even having to worry about being beaten to the post by 3rd party manufacturers - as they could simply add new dataslates to the online rules (which is a lot trickier when you're expecting people to purchase physical rulebooks).

I mean, they could still sell some rulebooks for those who want all the extra fluff (or who just prefer physical rules), but it wouldn't matter as much if different factions got their physical books later in the edition.


I know it's not exactly what you were talking about. However, when someone defends GW by saying 'we don't know all the rules yet', it seems reasonable to ask 'well whose fault is that?'.

It is a good point, and I do think it's completely ridiculous exactly how many books you need, a number that increases constantly. It could be so much easier if GW was willing to release rules a little faster and maybe for a little cheaper, i agree.
It is worth noting that I'm not exactly defending GW, so kuch as just trying to caution fellow fans to not speak too soon.

"WHY WON'T THEY GIVE ME FREE STUUUUF!"
isn't a good point. we've GOT the rules right now, 8th and 9th are cross compatable. most of the complaints about rules are people jumping to the gun about upcoming products, ones they have incomplete info about.
If we have all the rules, then what are we waiting for?


in this case the codices. 99% of the complaining has been about marines, when there's a new marine codex coming up in likely less then a month (I suspect the codex will be first week of October) waiting until we have a bit more info for that does seem wise. but too many people are assuming it'll be a straight buff of the last codex.
Oh! So if we have the codecies, and we see previews that look out of balance with other codecies (like 2w marines) can we complain about the disparity between the previewed marines and the other codexes that we're currently playing with? There might be some nerfs to marines in the marine codex, but we're plainly getting 2w marines and at the same time using 1w orks, aspect warriors and genestealers. Because we have all the rules, right?


We have enough rules to play. And certainly enough to play an engaging game versus most opponents. For some reason the more tournaments feature the fewer marines we see. Right now in the upside-down of Australia a podcaster is taking Nid hordes to a tournament. He beat 9 Eradicator Salamanders 83 to 58. Clearly a skew, but then if 9 Eradicators can't handle a simple skew and the horde can still place top tables then maybe the game doesn't work as the forum dictates. Maybe it is that he got first turn. We literally don't know.

So, why should you wait to draw conclusions? Because it isn't the same god damn dog and pony show.

When is the last time GW screwed something up with an FAQ and fixed it the same day?
When is the last time GW published a tournament-level mission set and didn't have competing mission sets like like Eternal & Maelstrom?
When is the last time you saw a fundamental rule dynamic like CORE that wasn't in the BRB? Even stratagems were there.

We don't know what will happen with the new book. We don't know how they'll handle new secondaries. Normally we'd have the first codexes out by now, but we don't. There are literally fundamental changes in those codexes.

You and I know nothing, but pretending to know something without all the information is just god damn intellectually dishonest now, isn't it? People that piss all over people who say, "just wait until we have all the info" just makes them donkey-caves.

OOOOHHHHhh. So we HAVE rules, but we also have an incomplete set of NEW rules.

But we can neither display irritation with the rules we have, nor voice irritation at not having the complete new set of rules, either. Is that it?
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





 Insectum7 wrote:
OOOOHHHHhh. So we HAVE rules, but we also have an incomplete set of NEW rules.

But we can neither display irritation with the rules we have, nor voice irritation at not having the complete new set of rules, either. Is that it?


It is the method not the message.

I express concern all the time. Im just not an donkey-cave about it.
   
Made in us
Ancient Ultramarine Venerable Dreadnought






 Daedalus81 wrote:
 Insectum7 wrote:
OOOOHHHHhh. So we HAVE rules, but we also have an incomplete set of NEW rules.

But we can neither display irritation with the rules we have, nor voice irritation at not having the complete new set of rules, either. Is that it?

It is the method not the message.

I express concern all the time. Im just not an donkey-cave about it.

To bring it back to the post I originally responded to:
Spoiler:
BrianDavion wrote:
 CommanderWalrus wrote:
 vipoid wrote:
 CommanderWalrus wrote:

We're in a really weird spot right now. We have a lot of rules and information about 9th edition out and about, but I would like to remind everyone that none of the codexes have come out yet. We're in the "index era" of the current edition, and it is really too early to make judgment about most things.


Is it worth mentioning that we could easily have all the rules if GW didn't insist on forcing people to pay through the nose for them?

Pretty much every other wargame I'm aware of has free, downloadable rules. If GW went that route, they could release the rules for every faction right at the start of each edition - because they wouldn't have to be (re)printing entire codices for each faction.

Furthermore, it would allow GW to still do gradual model releases, without even having to worry about being beaten to the post by 3rd party manufacturers - as they could simply add new dataslates to the online rules (which is a lot trickier when you're expecting people to purchase physical rulebooks).

I mean, they could still sell some rulebooks for those who want all the extra fluff (or who just prefer physical rules), but it wouldn't matter as much if different factions got their physical books later in the edition.


I know it's not exactly what you were talking about. However, when someone defends GW by saying 'we don't know all the rules yet', it seems reasonable to ask 'well whose fault is that?'.

It is a good point, and I do think it's completely ridiculous exactly how many books you need, a number that increases constantly. It could be so much easier if GW was willing to release rules a little faster and maybe for a little cheaper, i agree.
It is worth noting that I'm not exactly defending GW, so kuch as just trying to caution fellow fans to not speak too soon.


"WHY WON'T THEY GIVE ME FREE STUUUUF!"
isn't a good point. we've GOT the rules right now, 8th and 9th are cross compatable. most of the complaints about rules are people jumping to the gun about upcoming products, ones they have incomplete info about.

Who is "the first donkey-cave"?
   
Made in de
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Hamburg

Well, GW left us in a two-month vacuum state.
The rule set is fully released while the codices conform with the 8th edition.
It would have been better to give us indices not just for playing SM and Necrons in the next months but also for playing factions up to date until codex release.

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People have been saying "Wait and see!" since the first 9th preview. Eventually you have to go "We waited. We saw.". Eventually you're going to have to acknowledge that there's always something new coming out, so a wait-and-see approach runs out of steam.

You will run out of field if you keep moving those goalposts back...

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/09/19 06:53:37


   
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 wuestenfux wrote:
Well, GW left us in a two-month vacuum state.
The rule set is fully released while the codices conform with the 8th edition.
It would have been better to give us indices not just for playing SM and Necrons in the next months but also for playing factions up to date until codex release.


It would have been better to actually release all the 9th Edition books at the beginning of 9th Edition. That'd put an end to Codex Creep, and quit sticking it to the people who are last in line and get a 6 month long codex.

My WHFB armies were Bretonians and Tomb Kings. 
   
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NE Ohio, USA

 CommanderWalrus wrote:
tneva82 wrote:
Ah yes. Another "let's wait' claim. Never mind in 20 years those claims have always been incorrect.

Never get bored of being wrong eh

Ah, actually, I am not bored of being wrong because I just started. I'm new here. Maybe in a few weeks I'll get bored with being wrong and decide to be right.
I think what everyone's missing is that when I say "wait and see" I don't mean it in an entirely positive sense. When I see people get extremely excited about the changes in this edition, it gives me the same feeling as the negative comments. I personally prefer to remain optimistic, but at the same time my original intent was that we shouldn't make premature judgment in general.
Thank you for replies, everyone!


Being new you probably don't realize this, but.... The people you're giving this advice to? For a good many here that seems to be about 1/2 of their hobby. You're literally telling them not to participate in their hobby.
   
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Cardiff

Breton wrote:
 Yarium wrote:
I don't understand people that say "GW should just release ALL the rules, not piece-meal!" as if:
- GW has everything already written up for every faction until 10th edition, and they're just sitting on it.
If they don't already, and I agree they probably don't they should have before they released the 9e BRB. If the old book is going to stick around fine, no need to rerelease a new one, but any faction getting a new codex should get a new codex on the same day.

- releasing all the rules for free will mean that GW can function as a business.
- releasing all the rules at once, and then nothing for 2 years, would be interesting and would make people more interested in the game instead of growing bored with a stale environment.


But neither has happened, nor will happen, so it’s just shouting into the void with all this “GW SHOULD”. They won’t, so don’t stress yourself over it. And given how the meta kept shifting in 8th, tell me more about this supposed ‘stale environment’?

 Stormonu wrote:
For me, the joy is in putting some good-looking models on the board and playing out a fantasy battle - not arguing over the poorly-made rules of some 3rd party who neither has any power over my play nor will be visiting me (and my opponent) to ensure we are "playing by the rules"
 
   
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washington state USA

On the subject of free online releases of rules-

In our current age of PDFs and digital copies the idea of forcing players to buy a hard copy is something akin to record companies refusing to embrace digital media in the 1990s

Many other companies have had a history of free releases of the core rules and even army builders. Infinity is a prime example. if you really want the lore and the art you can buy the books otherwise everything has always been free for download along with the free army builder on their website.

What this does is help build community and promote the game. it also lets the players know the company values them by not treating them like GAK.

DUST 1947 also has the same approach to resources with all the rules and unit stats free to download (there is no army build restriction other than using units within your faction or specific TO&E themed lists)


Of course since they don't have to deal with the number of factions (DUST has 4 or 5 if you count mercs, infinity has 10 compared to 36 or so for GW) or the specialized gear/rules between them it is far easier for both companies to released pretty much everything at the same time.


P.S.
Keep in mind that GW wants to string all you fanboys along by dragging out the releases and constantly changing the meta, never intent to make a prefected version of the game since it drives sales. as long as they can keep you spending money they won't change the format.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/09/19 09:08:52


 
   
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 CommanderWalrus wrote:
I'm not saying we shouldn't talk about it, I'm saying we shouldn't despair when we haven't even touched the books yet.
We have the books. Every army has a codex compatible with the current edition.

Frankly my biggest issue at the moment is that we also supposedly have the rulebook and points book for this edition, but you wouldn't know it with all the changes GW have been releasing of late. It's starting to feel like one of those early access games where you pay on the promise that the developer will finish writing it at some point.
   
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washington state USA

star citizen 40k...never to be completed after stupid amounts of funding, lost somewhere in the depths of the administratum.


 
   
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Longtime Dakkanaut




BrianDavion wrote:
tneva82 wrote:
Ah yes. Another "let's wait' claim. Never mind in 20 years those claims have always been incorrect.

Never get bored of being wrong eh


except in this point the wait and see people have indeed been vindicated, because for all the panic.. it would seem that.. there are indeed nerfs in the upcoming marines codex.


I think it is more the how long one has to wait to see an actual change. Of course marines as the only faction with 9th ed rules would be a powerful faction, specialy comparing to ones writen by a different design team for 8th ed. What, I think, some people worried is that maybe they are going to be forced to wait and see for 2-3 years, and a lot of people aren't going to be playing so far in the future.

If you have to kill, then kill in the best manner. If you slaughter, then slaughter in the best manner. Let one of you sharpen his knife so his animal feels no pain. 
   
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guys let's stop pretending the arguements are about 9th edition, 99% of the bitching here and certainly ALL the doom and gloom ahs been people saying hwo aweful space marines etc etc and their new codex isn't out yet.
So in short if you're complaining about space marines specificly,no you don't have all the fething info and if you claim to the contrary you eaither A: work for GW and are breaking your NDA. or B: Are lying.

Opinions are not facts please don't confuse the two 
   
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BrianDavion wrote:
guys let's stop pretending the arguements are about 9th edition, 99% of the bitching here and certainly ALL the doom and gloom ahs been people saying hwo aweful space marines etc etc and their new codex isn't out yet.
So in short if you're complaining about space marines specificly,no you don't have all the fething info and if you claim to the contrary you eaither A: work for GW and are breaking your NDA. or B: Are lying.

So now it's not wait and see it's you can't complain about a faction until you have it's new 9th edition codex in your hands.
So eradicators rules in indomitous being broken. Nope not allowed to say that as no 9th edition codex out yet.

Saying that T5 3W troops rendering the common D2 weapons no no longer working against marines efficently, nope can't say that either

The new weapon stats which in increasing the damage output or a number of weapons will make vehicals weaker, oh wait I need to wait for the codex silly me.

Or you could maybe except that some things are so blindingly obvious and obnoxious to play against currently it's fair for people to complain.
   
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Nottingham

Ice_can wrote:
BrianDavion wrote:
guys let's stop pretending the arguements are about 9th edition, 99% of the bitching here and certainly ALL the doom and gloom ahs been people saying hwo aweful space marines etc etc and their new codex isn't out yet.
So in short if you're complaining about space marines specificly,no you don't have all the fething info and if you claim to the contrary you eaither A: work for GW and are breaking your NDA. or B: Are lying.

So now it's not wait and see it's you can't complain about a faction until you have it's new 9th edition codex in your hands.
So eradicators rules in indomitous being broken. Nope not allowed to say that as no 9th edition codex out yet.
You're cool to say they're broken *right now*. But there's a lot of assumption flying around about what the new Codex and meta will be. And so many of those assumptions are simply based on unstable evidence.

So, unless you're explicitly talking about right here and now, complaints simply don't have direct evidence.

Saying that T5 3W troops rendering the common D2 weapons no no longer working against marines efficently, nope can't say that either
Where do you know for certain they're troops again? Is it likely? Yes. But you don't know that yet, if I'm not mistaken. Do you know how much they cost? Do you know if D2 weapons will go down in price or D3 becoming more common in the future?

The new weapon stats which in increasing the damage output or a number of weapons will make vehicals weaker, oh wait I need to wait for the codex silly me.
Hang on, you were just complaining about Damage not being high enough to deal with those T5 3W "Troops", but now you're saying damage output is higher! Which is it?

Or you could maybe except that some things are so blindingly obvious and obnoxious to play against currently it's fair for people to complain.
Blindingly obvious NOW, yes, but how long will "now" be?

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Hamburg

Breton wrote:
 wuestenfux wrote:
Well, GW left us in a two-month vacuum state.
The rule set is fully released while the codices conform with the 8th edition.
It would have been better to give us indices not just for playing SM and Necrons in the next months but also for playing factions up to date until codex release.


It would have been better to actually release all the 9th Edition books at the beginning of 9th Edition. That'd put an end to Codex Creep, and quit sticking it to the people who are last in line and get a 6 month long codex.

This would be the ideal situation.
But its wishful thinking.
I guess the last 9th edition codex will be released by the end of 2021 and in between we will eventually see another SM codex update.

Former moderator 40kOnline

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Illumini: "And thank you for not finishing your post with a "" I'm sorry, but after 7200 's that has to be the most annoying sign-off ever."

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 wuestenfux wrote:
Breton wrote:
 wuestenfux wrote:
Well, GW left us in a two-month vacuum state.
The rule set is fully released while the codices conform with the 8th edition.
It would have been better to give us indices not just for playing SM and Necrons in the next months but also for playing factions up to date until codex release.


It would have been better to actually release all the 9th Edition books at the beginning of 9th Edition. That'd put an end to Codex Creep, and quit sticking it to the people who are last in line and get a 6 month long codex.

This would be the ideal situation.
But its wishful thinking.
I guess the last 9th edition codex will be released by the end of 2021 and in between we will eventually see another SM codex update.


So long the beancounters alone have so much influence so long they will spread in order to make all the quartals look nice.

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 Daedalus81 wrote:

In the 41st millennium there is only overpriced hamberders.

 
   
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Cardiff

 Sgt_Smudge wrote:
Ice_can wrote:
BrianDavion wrote:
guys let's stop pretending the arguements are about 9th edition, 99% of the bitching here and certainly ALL the doom and gloom ahs been people saying hwo aweful space marines etc etc and their new codex isn't out yet.
So in short if you're complaining about space marines specificly,no you don't have all the fething info and if you claim to the contrary you eaither A: work for GW and are breaking your NDA. or B: Are lying.

So now it's not wait and see it's you can't complain about a faction until you have it's new 9th edition codex in your hands.
So eradicators rules in indomitous being broken. Nope not allowed to say that as no 9th edition codex out yet.
You're cool to say they're broken *right now*. But there's a lot of assumption flying around about what the new Codex and meta will be. And so many of those assumptions are simply based on unstable evidence.

So, unless you're explicitly talking about right here and now, complaints simply don't have direct evidence.

Saying that T5 3W troops rendering the common D2 weapons no no longer working against marines efficently, nope can't say that either
Where do you know for certain they're troops again? Is it likely? Yes. But you don't know that yet, if I'm not mistaken. Do you know how much they cost? Do you know if D2 weapons will go down in price or D3 becoming more common in the future?

The new weapon stats which in increasing the damage output or a number of weapons will make vehicals weaker, oh wait I need to wait for the codex silly me.
Hang on, you were just complaining about Damage not being high enough to deal with those T5 3W "Troops", but now you're saying damage output is higher! Which is it?

Or you could maybe except that some things are so blindingly obvious and obnoxious to play against currently it's fair for people to complain.
Blindingly obvious NOW, yes, but how long will "now" be?


Rest of his salt aside, we do know Heavy Intercessors will be troops as we were expressly told on the announcement stream/WHC.

 Stormonu wrote:
For me, the joy is in putting some good-looking models on the board and playing out a fantasy battle - not arguing over the poorly-made rules of some 3rd party who neither has any power over my play nor will be visiting me (and my opponent) to ensure we are "playing by the rules"
 
   
 
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