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 kodos wrote:


Warhammer is dead, if you talk about the game you usually say which Edition you are talking about as the is no "current" one
If someone talks about 40k, they talk about the latest Edition and say if they mean a specific older Editon
despite that 5th Editon is still played and you can get the books/rules of you ask people on forums

Warhammer is an old no longer continued game, but it's not dead if people play it.
Playerbase will decline until GW rereleases it though, and yes that would be as 'resurrection' so poetically you are correct..

 kodos wrote:

if you write a game for metagamers you get a rule text like T9A has it, a text from lawyers for lawyers and if a casual gamer wants to start playing he needs an experienced player to teach him the game because just from reading the rules he will never understand anything
to make it WAAC save you have a FAQ/Reference Handbook in addition to the rulebook

Privateer Press make very successful games on that exact mode. As they say 'the rules mean what they say they mean'. You can write directly and still write clearly, they achieve this and the game has had changes but the core rules are stable and the faction balance is fairly tight.

 kodos wrote:

and if you copy the rules from GW instead of writing them from scratch you also copy the mistakes made by GW and need to solve them as well (instead of not making them in the first place)

WHFB is a solid system at its root, which stems from the WRG rules of the 70's. Yet there are many fundamental changes over the years. GW dont even copy themselves and continuency projects need not do either.

 kodos wrote:

and I never said that you fail on any point, but T9A does by doing Tournament Rules for WAAC players and claim that their rulebooks are suited for casual gamers as well (their game might be, but the written text is not)
also a reason why the designers are always suprised when casual player say that T9A has the least immersion of all games around

This is because post 1.2 the T9A ruleset got fairly bland and the statblock became detached. The standard warhammer profile reads like a character sheet, there is a flow to it. Currenct T9A doesnt have that feel you have boxed sections of attack and defence, it plays more like a database entry.

 kodos wrote:

what the project design team thinks is the best way to continue Warhammer Fantasy and catch the spirit of the game is T9A 2.0 (or Gold Edition) and other teams should give up their stuff to prevent the defragmentation of the community

I dont think this is so. 2.0 was forced onto T9A due to lawyers, I think they would have moved to 1.3 as a fix of a few issues as an extension of 1.1 if they could, but there were forced to a departure at 1.2 and then a complete departure for 2.0 in order to avoid a lawsuit.

 kodos wrote:

it is more about of taking the best of all edtions and make a new game from it, very much what Warhammer Armies did

 kodos wrote:

So long story short unethical miniatures companies exist, and if T9A affiliated the T9A moderation team may help silence those who have a bad customer service experience. T9A produced a good game at its outset, but I don't like their moral compass. It can be very expedient..

there are strange things going on with supporting companies, and the design team

No disagreement there, I only had a two week ban, enough for the narrative to be sanitised, but the bad experience is permanent. I have no confidence in T9A as a consequence. However they moved on from 1.1 so I was happy not to, I found I was far from alone in both gettign fingers burned and in not wanting to move from 1.1.
That being said I also have all the army books for 8th, which is very similar anyway, and and progressively buying all materials for 6th. This way I can accommodate the players I meet.

 kodos wrote:

I am very careful with any who make miniatures direclty for the game and not just advertise their generic stuff with T9A

I to be fair to the indie manufacturers there is nothing wrong in pursuing a T9A "rosette" (actually its a seal), and I have had some good experiences. As WHB is no longer supported I would recommend anyone who wants to play Warhammer or continuency Warhammer to use the excellent tool on the T9A forums for miniature sourcing. While everything is named by the T9A titles it is not hard to translate.

https://www.the-ninth-age.com/community/lexicon/index.php?lexicon/462-the-9th-age-miniature-library/

 kodos wrote:

there were also companies who wanted to make stuff for T9A and were removed or banned because of unkown reasons (and it was not because the campany was acting bad)

That I did not know, and from the poor ethics I experienced I cannot say I am too surprised to hear of this accusation. Sad though, and fething low, if an indie makes good minis why try to starve their business. Do you have evidence for this?

kodos wrote:

 Orlanth wrote:

if you write a game for metagamers you get a rule text like T9A has it, a text from lawyers for lawyers and if a casual gamer wants to start playing he needs an experienced player to teach him the game because just from reading the rules he will never understand anything
to make it WAAC save you have a FAQ/Reference Handbook in addition to the rulebook.

This has been done many times though. Mantic did it with Kings of War.

 Orlanth wrote:

 kodos wrote:

what the project design team thinks is the best way to continue Warhammer Fantasy and catch the spirit of the game is T9A 2.0 (or Gold Edition) and other teams should give up their stuff to prevent the defragmentation of the community

I dont think this is so. 2.0 was forced onto T9A due to lawyers, I think they would have moved to 1.3 as a fix of a few issues as an extension of 1.1 if they could, but there were forced to a departure at 1.2 and then a complete departure for 2.0 in order to avoid a lawsuit.

The change from 4 Chaos Gods to 7 Sins was forced by the lawyers (as this is something specific to the Warhammer IP, what we have with 2.0 was the long term goal
or better said after the first ETC with T9A rules the project was made more professionel the goal was set to make their own game including full fluff and additional games (Skirmish, RPG) and not just a better Warhammer
those things are just not very public (to not push people away who don't want that and get them used to it by small changes) and the goals were different at the very beginning

I have to say that I will give it another chance as soon as more of the 2.x books are released
I don't play the tournaments so I don't need to use a constantly changing game and can play something else until they are done

 Orlanth wrote:

That I did not know, and from the poor ethics I experienced I cannot say I am too surprised to hear of this accusation. Sad though, and fething low, if an indie makes good minis why try to starve their business. Do you have evidence for this?

Posts/Topics get removed fast if needed, so no
but if i recall correctly the problem with one if them was that they wanted to offer printed rules as well

 DarkBlack wrote:

kodos wrote:
if you write a game for metagamers you get a rule text like T9A has it, a text from lawyers for lawyers and if a casual gamer wants to start playing he needs an experienced player to teach him the game because just from reading the rules he will never understand anything
to make it WAAC save you have a FAQ/Reference Handbook in addition to the rulebook.

This has been done many times though. Mantic did it with Kings of War.

Mantic has a very different writing style that gives the same result for the game but keeping it readable for the casual gamer
they have "easy to learn/read" rules close to perfection

I have once tried to just use the existing text of T9A and make it a readable rulebook, you can cut the rules by half as there is a lot of stuff in between that is not needed and should be in an Appendix or a differnt document

Mantic or FFG make rules that are WAAC proof and still easy to read and to learn
T9A is WAAC save, hard to read and to learn the game you need an experienced player to teach you (and the design team stated several times that this is a feature of the game to encourage social interactions between old and new players)

 kodos wrote:

 Orlanth wrote:

That I did not know, and from the poor ethics I experienced I cannot say I am too surprised to hear of this accusation. Sad though, and fething low, if an indie makes good minis why try to starve their business. Do you have evidence for this?

Posts/Topics get removed fast if needed, so no

No, no, no. This was not a case of deleting excess posts or threads, this was cutting out a customer service issue from an existing relevant thread. Saving space had NOTHING to do with it. Also there was no focus on changing topic as while content was deleted a counter narrative was added and remains to this day.
I am not the only person this has happened to.

point is, with posts being removed fast (without leaving something behind, nit like in dakka were mods leave a comment behind) if you haven't seen them in time or were the person who wrote it, it is impossible to track the reasons what happened or why something was removed

 kodos wrote:
point is, with posts being removed fast (without leaving something behind, nit like in dakka were mods leave a comment behind) if you haven't seen them in time or were the person who wrote it, it is impossible to track the reasons what happened or why something was removed

I will explain again. The posts were specifically being removed, one sidedly while the topic was being continued, one sidedly. So the topic as remaining was sanitised, a narrative was played out that the customer service issues were 'smears' and 'lies'.
This happened to multiple people, I know of at least one other case and this person claims to know of more. I dont know how many people had similar experiences because any evidence that they are a dodgy trader GETS DELETED BY THE MOD TEAM. We only have case history of those who were silenced or saw others get silenced.
I also received were causal threats of legal action from the dodgy company. I don't know if anyone else got that. If they were in the UK I would have gone direct to trading standards.

Let me make an analogy, (this one is indicative and not a real example for the record). You know about Prodos and the non delivery of Aliens backers goods? It happened and some are still salty and never had their fingers unburned. Its' been a topic on and off Dakka a while back. Now imagine that Prodos has a 'deal' with Dakka so that anyone who raised customer service issues here about bad backer experiences or non delivery had their posts deleted. Yep, just like that. It could be made to look like nothing was ever wrong, more or less, for a moral price.
Of course Dakka wont do this, but T9A forum users experience something similar to the above. I don't know if there is an active 'deal' or more likely T9A just choose to aggressively defend affiliates.

 kodos wrote:


Mantic or FFG make rules that are WAAC proof and still easy to read and to learn
T9A is WAAC save, hard to read and to learn the game you need an experienced player to teach you (and the design team stated several times that this is a feature of the game to encourage social interactions between old and new players)

Check out the recently rebranded Essence of war. The redaction there is much more noob-friendly.

Pace of play (premade lists, smaller table, etc.) also leads to much faster games.

And supposedly a one-page rules version is coming soon too.

One Page rules is a different thing
not bad and with using the same base for everything for sure an advantage and kind of doing a better job than T9A

for Essence of War, it is kind of strange
it is a different game within the same World, you if one is into the background/style of T9A but does not want to play the big game, it is thing
but I don't see why someone should play that game as it does not help with the rules of the main game and gives no real advantage over KoW or OnePage Regiments

 kodos wrote:
One Page rules is a different thing
not bad and with using the same base for everything for sure an advantage and kind of doing a better job than T9A

for Essence of War, it is kind of strange
it is a different game within the same World, you if one is into the background/style of T9A but does not want to play the big game, it is thing
but I don't see why someone should play that game as it does not help with the rules of the main game and gives no real advantage over KoW or OnePage Regiments

It does, the rules are differently worded (and reduced) but otherwise the same.

take all flavour out of the world, enjoy