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Argive wrote: Dang.. Man trying to dodge dem spoilers. I like the thread some interesting ideas but had to stop reading as Im not all the way through the HH books.
From the books I've digested so far I get the feeling the custodes have unwavering loyalty gene coded into their very being. The custodes that ive read about so far aprt from maybe valdor(I think valdor is a bit different to the rest) they cant comprehend the heresy/betrayal at any level. Its like: "It doesnt matter why. He's a traitor and thats all there is to it. He must die"
Where the various different astartes by comparison tend to muse "I dont believe its true.. but why? Why would this happen? Was it a sickness of the mind? Some sort of xenos corruption?"
At least that's the vibe im getting.
I absolutely agree that the custodes dont care about the IOM in the slightest. If the IOM burning down to the ground. would mean saving the Emperor, life they would burn it without a nano second of a hesitation.
Which suggest they have this integrated at some sort of genetic level. Which makes perfect sense really..
you don't need special conditioning for this, the custodes never fully liked and trusted the astartes after all.
Opinions are not facts please don't confuse the two
I'd have to say the most free will in the galaxy belongs to one of the Chaos factions. either Spikey Elves or Spikey Astartes. Both of those aren't shackled with evolutionary processes of mind indoctrination. They do whatever they want, because all they want is to do is the forbidden stuff.
I guess a distant third would be the Radical Inquisitors?
FezzikDaBullgryn wrote: I'd have to say the most free will in the galaxy belongs to one of the Chaos factions. either Spikey Elves or Spikey Astartes. Both of those aren't shackled with evolutionary processes of mind indoctrination. They do whatever they want, because all they want is to do is the forbidden stuff.
I guess a distant third would be the Radical Inquisitors?
if you think followers of chaos aren't slaves themselves you don't understand chaos
Opinions are not facts please don't confuse the two
I mean, again it depends on what you mean by free will, even in-universe.
Daemons, for example, are free - heck, a Slaanesh Herald even fell in love with a mortal and got married to him with Slaanesh herself officiating. The story even makes a big deal out of how against-her-nature it was to love, and makes a further big deal about how all the other daemons thought Slaanesh would cast her down for going against her nature. But Slaanesh didn't, for reasons unknown (though I can speculate).
There's even a part where she gets stuck in a Soul Grinder and fights alongside the mortal, but as a mindless mechademon driven by her nature, she isn't aware it's him and accidentally squelches him. However, she does recognize him after a moment (while he's dead on the floor), and this pain of loss overcomes the power of the Soul Forge, and she reverts to her normal Herald form on the spot - an obvious throwback to amor omnia vincit storytelling. She is then able to resurrect him, but significantly loses most of her power (as she has to feed the mortal some of her essence).
If you want a textbook example of an intelligent being going against its nature by conscious will and choice, look no further.
This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2020/11/13 14:17:32
Unit1126PLL wrote: I mean, again it depends on what you mean by free will, even in-universe.
Daemons, for example, are free - heck, a Slaanesh Herald even fell in love with a mortal and got married to him with Slaanesh herself officiating. The story even makes a big deal out of how against-her-nature it was to love, and makes a further big deal about how all the other daemons thought Slaanesh would cast her down for going against her nature. But Slaanesh didn't, for reasons unknown (though I can speculate).
There's even a part where she gets stuck in a Soul Grinder and fights alongside the mortal, but as a mindless mechademon driven by her nature, she isn't aware it's him and accidentally squelches him. However, she does recognize him after a moment (while he's dead on the floor), and this pain of loss overcomes the power of the Soul Forge, and she reverts to her normal Herald form on the spot - an obvious throwback to amor omnia vincit storytelling. She is then able to resurrect him, but significantly loses most of her power (as she has to feed the mortal some of her essence).
If you want a textbook example of an intelligent being going against its nature by conscious will and choice, look no further.
Where is that from? I would absolutely love to read it! The idea of Slaanesh officiating makes me chuckle. (aww, tiny seekers of slaanesh carrying the wedding dress train... nurgle weeping uncontrollably in the background)
Unit1126PLL wrote: I mean, again it depends on what you mean by free will, even in-universe.
Daemons, for example, are free - heck, a Slaanesh Herald even fell in love with a mortal and got married to him with Slaanesh herself officiating. The story even makes a big deal out of how against-her-nature it was to love, and makes a further big deal about how all the other daemons thought Slaanesh would cast her down for going against her nature. But Slaanesh didn't, for reasons unknown (though I can speculate).
There's even a part where she gets stuck in a Soul Grinder and fights alongside the mortal, but as a mindless mechademon driven by her nature, she isn't aware it's him and accidentally squelches him. However, she does recognize him after a moment (while he's dead on the floor), and this pain of loss overcomes the power of the Soul Forge, and she reverts to her normal Herald form on the spot - an obvious throwback to amor omnia vincit storytelling. She is then able to resurrect him, but significantly loses most of her power (as she has to feed the mortal some of her essence).
If you want a textbook example of an intelligent being going against its nature by conscious will and choice, look no further.
Where is that from? I would absolutely love to read it! The idea of Slaanesh officiating makes me chuckle. (aww, tiny seekers of slaanesh carrying the wedding dress train... nurgle weeping uncontrollably in the background)
Syll'Esske's lore in the 2019 October white dwarf. They are joined in Slaanesh, Syll being the herald and Esske being the mortal (uplifted to Daemonhood as part of their joining). It's ambiguously for AOS/40k, as it doesn't really specify which universe its happening in (it happens in the Warp, in Slaanesh's realm, which is the same in both universes). It's worth noting that Esske is explicitly stated in the tale to not be from any of the Mortal Realms of AoS, and is from... somewhere else.
