Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
Times and dates in your local timezone.
Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now.
broxus wrote: So you conveniently throw out the entire bold paragraph that defines what a saving throw is on page 221 and are saying the invulnerable save section takes priority and isn’t a separate entry? Page 221 literally defines what a saving throw is and yet you are ignoring it.
No one is ignoring page 221. We know what a saving throw is. It is "Saving Throw (defined on page 221) a roll that is modified by AP and is based on the units Save (Sv) characteristic." This is an Armor save as Armor save is "a saving throw using Save value on the data sheet"
And we all know that a saving throw is "a roll that is modified by AP and is based on the units Save (Sv) characteristic."
"Save value on the data sheet" = "the units Save (Sv) characteristic."
Save is just shorthand for armor save, they mean the same thing.
Exactly!
So with that definition you will notice that an invulnerable save is something separate and even has its own section and paragraph. Since saving throws are referring to armor saves specifically (as you laid out) then invulnerable saves don’t get the same benefit unless it was specifically stated.
broxus wrote: So for those skills/powers/ it should state it improves saving throws (armor saves) and invulnerable saves which are separate things and refer to separate rules.
And that is false because GW defines an Invulnerable save as a Saving throw, as Alextroy pointed out.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2020/12/24 00:46:08
"Did you notice a sign out in front of my chapel that said "Land Raider Storage"?" -High Chaplain Astorath the Grim Redeemer of the Lost.
I sold my soul to the devil and now the bastard is demanding a refund!
We do not have an attorney-client relationship. I am not your lawyer. The statements I make do not constitute legal advice. Any statements made by me are based upon the limited facts you have presented, and under the premise that you will consult with a local attorney. This is not an attempt to solicit business. This disclaimer is in addition to any disclaimers that this website has made.
To be fair, RAI as I understand it, any roll that prevents a wound is technically a saving throw. That could be a stratagem, an ability, or a literal Armor/Invuln/Ignore pain*.
Anything that saves from a fail(taking damage) is a saving throw. BCB can you show me how I am wrong on this?
FezzikDaBullgryn wrote: To be fair, RAI as I understand it, any roll that prevents a wound is technically a saving throw. That could be a stratagem, an ability, or a literal Armor/Invuln/Ignore pain*.
Anything that saves from a fail(taking damage) is a saving throw. BCB can you show me how I am wrong on this?
I can show you how you are wrong on this.
Prove that "any roll that prevents a wound is technically a saving throw"
Basically, a FNP type roll is specifically not a saving throw. We know this specifically because "No saving throws can be made against mortal wounds" (Page 19 PDF rules), and FNP type of rolls can be used to negate mortal wounds. These fall under the "IGNORING WOUNDS" rules on the same page that states "Some models have rules that give them a chance to ignore wounds"
"Did you notice a sign out in front of my chapel that said "Land Raider Storage"?" -High Chaplain Astorath the Grim Redeemer of the Lost.
I sold my soul to the devil and now the bastard is demanding a refund!
We do not have an attorney-client relationship. I am not your lawyer. The statements I make do not constitute legal advice. Any statements made by me are based upon the limited facts you have presented, and under the premise that you will consult with a local attorney. This is not an attempt to solicit business. This disclaimer is in addition to any disclaimers that this website has made.
So then if a saving throw is a save that's modified by AP, does that mean that units in cover don't get +1 to saving throws if they're hit by weapons that don't have an AP value?
Same goes for all Is dust? Units saving against weapons with no AP and 1 damage don't benefit from all is Dust ?
2020/12/24 05:21:58
Subject: Re:Thousand Sons RM getting a 2+ invul save
A Saving Throw is the roll you make to a Wound is inflicted by an attack to determine if it does Damage. It is either a roll made using the Save Characteristic (Armor Save) or an Invulnerable Save. Normally, the roll is adjusted by the attacks AP value, but not if you are using an Invulnerable Save.
