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 Argive wrote:

ccs wrote:

 Argive wrote:

Voss wrote:

quantumquixote wrote:
Yeah, I play AoS too, but I kind of want them to take a break from making new stuff, because clearly this is a zero sum game where 40K gets less.

I think a year by year review is required. 'Less' is not what I think of when I think of recent years. Things I'm not interested in, certainly. But not 'less.'

40k = Space marines.

It feels like less coz thats the only thing you see.

Hmm. Must be a problem with where you're looking.

I was looking at the infographic thread...showing the % / Numbers of releases for factions.

But sure. Yeah. Sure. Space marines are not geting overhwlming amount of model support in recent memory or are the Poster boys and de facto faction of 40k... Sure.

Well, that's a substantial step back from "the only thing you see".

okay... Let me clarify.

If you take 40k as whole "thing" then look at WD covers, WC articles and model releases over the last 3+ years as a casual on any given day, More likely than not, chances are you will be looking at something space marine.

Would this not be an accurate prediction?
Therefore a casual onlooker would associate 40k = Space marine. SM are the main protagnist. This is certainly by design at this stage. GW LOVES selling SM stuff and making bank or are we going to dispute that too?

I might not like it personally but it does not make it any less true. it is what it is. But don't know why people so adamantly want to pretend this isint the case...

 Argive wrote:

Therefore a casual onlooker would associate 40k = Space marine. SM are the main protagnist. This is certainly by design at this stage.

"By this stage", lol.
"This stage" has been the case since September of '87 when RT launched.
And properties having associated iconic flagship imagery that you see plenty of & think of 1st is far older than that....
It's how branding works.
The average person understands this & isn't put off by it.

PenitentJake wrote:
I expect Chaos Daemons within a month before or after Be'Lakor; I expect CSM within two months of Daemons. Probably Q4.

EC have a lot of potential to be a new faction this edition. It doesn't make a lot of sense to stop at DG and Ksons. But what makes them even more likely is that they are the perfect foil to the Eldar.

When the story left off, Yvraine was trying to track down the remaining Crone swords to complete the ritual to waken Ynnead completely and destroy Slaanesh. A clever named Keeper- Shelaxi Helbane, managed to take the last sword back to Slaanesh's palace despite the attempt of Yvraine + Jain Zar + Leltith to stop him.

If the united flavours of Eldar come up with a viable plan to get it, Slaanesh might need the EC to intervene. That sets the stage for a new faction and CWE range refresh in 2022.

The most recent online preview showed not a single Marine. We know heavy intercessors will be released in May, but I think that might be all we see for Marines for a while. I suspect 1 marine release per quarter?

I would like to sign up for 40K Lore Facts.


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 Argive wrote:
okay... Let me clarify.

If you take 40k as whole "thing" then look at WD covers, WC articles and model releases over the last 3+ years as a casual on any given day, More likely than not, chances are you will be looking at something space marine.

Would this not be an accurate prediction?
Therefore a casual onlooker would associate 40k = Space marine. SM are the main protagnist. This is certainly by design at this stage. GW LOVES selling SM stuff and making bank or are we going to dispute that too?

I might not like it personally but it does not make it any less true. it is what it is. But don't know why people so adamantly want to pretend this isint the case...

Marines appeared on 3 out of the last 12 WDs. WC articles are always geared toward releases so when I look at the article list it's pretty marine light at present.

Marines might be the poster boy, but GW has diversified considerably.

Correct me if I'm wrong but the Daughters of Khaine release for AoS was just a battle tome and there were no new models.

In fact, since summer the major release for AoS has been the soons of behamat (which is just one battletome and one kit, the mega gargant, which can be assembled in 3 variations like the Imperial knights one) and the lumineth, meanwhile for 40K there has been a train of SM releases and a whole reset of almost the entire Necron line.

To me seems pretty even.

Two release cycles of LRL, as of this weekend, not just one - and let's not forget the Slaanesh Mortals wave, either.

Oh, and Soulblight somewhere on the horizon as coming-fairly-soon, with more than we know for any upcoming 40k release.

I want to say there was a hero model for DoK in the vs. box, along with a set of Endless spells, but no new units.

So, since the release of Indomitus, if we look at new armies or armies getting significant releases, we see:

40k
- Space Marines (in multiple waves)
- Necrons

AoS
- Sons of Behemat
- LRL (in two large waves)
- Slaanesh Mortals

The next big 40k release will probably be Orks.

And then hopefully Eldar....

psipso wrote:
Correct me if I'm wrong but the Daughters of Khaine release for AoS was just a battle tome and there were no new models.

In fact, since summer the major release for AoS has been the soons of behamat (which is just one battletome and one kit, the mega gargant, which can be assembled in 3 variations like the Imperial knights one) and the lumineth, meanwhile for 40K there has been a train of SM releases and a whole reset of almost the entire Necron line.

To me seems pretty even.

For AoS: You're forgetting the very recent Slaneshi Hedonites - book + models.
DoK - Book + Ironscale Melusai (in vs box) + the Shadow Stalker unit for War Cry (WC stuff also has AoS stats)

ccs wrote:


For AoS: You're forgetting the very recent Slaneshi Hedonites - book + models.
DoK - Book + Ironscale Melusai (in vs box) + the Shadow Stalker unit for War Cry (WC stuff also has AoS stats)

So then, we're also counting the Kill Team box on the 40k side, right?

PenitentJake wrote:

ccs wrote:


For AoS: You're forgetting the very recent Slaneshi Hedonites - book + models.
DoK - Book + Ironscale Melusai (in vs box) + the Shadow Stalker unit for War Cry (WC stuff also has AoS stats)

So then, we're also counting the Kill Team box on the 40k side, right?

Only if it supports the narrative about too many SM releases.
If it's a xeno release you can conveniently ignore it.


But seriously, when I opened my new DoK tome I found a unit called the Shadowstalkers. They are part of Sigmar. They aren't listed in the Sigmar portion of GWs site though. So where do I find this unit? Answer: under War Cry.
Sometimes these units get re-boxed into Sigmar when their WC/etc run ends - ex: Zarbag & Co. for Gloomspite.
And there's plenty of other AoS Battle Tomes that list such units.
And then there's stuff from Underworlds, released either before or akin to their factions Tome, that have Sigmar rules - but aren't in the Tome....

And this pattern repeats with 40k/KT. Current ex: KT Pariah. The difference is that those models will supposedly be available separately in 40k wrapping sooner (rather than ??? for stuff on the AoS side.).
My Flayed Ones, Chronomancer, & Heavy Intercisors have been 9e options since day one. Finally released in a big old orange KT box....

So why wouldn't you count the KT releases?

PenitentJake wrote:

ccs wrote:


For AoS: You're forgetting the very recent Slaneshi Hedonites - book + models.
DoK - Book + Ironscale Melusai (in vs box) + the Shadow Stalker unit for War Cry (WC stuff also has AoS stats)

So then, we're also counting the Kill Team box on the 40k side, right?

I wasn't going to include DoK as having a significant release, but it is worth pointing out that they didn't get no models.

Slaaneshi Mortals do count as a significant release, though.

Obviously determining what a "faction" is somewhat subjective. However, looking just at the AOS battletomes and 40k codices I count the following:

AOS: Idoneth deepkin, fyreslayers, stormcast eternals, gloomspite gitz, cities of sigmar, legions of nagash, sylvaneth, maggotkin of nurgle, kharadron overlords, slaves to darkness, skaven, ossiarch bonereapers, ogor mawtribes, nighthaunt, beasts of chaos, sons of behemat, daughters of khaine, flesh-eater courts, seraphone, disciples of tzeentch, blades of khorne, orruk warclanes, hedonites of slaanesh and lumineth real-lords.

i.e. there are 24 'factions' varied enough to justify their own book.

40k:Imperial guard, eldar, tyranids, grey knights, death guard, space marines, necrons, dark eldar, orks, chaos knights, chaos space marines, tau, sister of battle, genestealer cults, custodes, imperial knights, thousand sons, choas daemons.

i.e. there are 18 'factions' varied enough to justify their own book.

Even using books to compare the two games, 40k only has 75% the variety of AoS. Further, personally, I don't really see imperial knights and chaos knights as particularly varied and similarly grey knights feel like a variation on space marines.

In my view, 40k has some serious catching up to do and can't really follow why GW is like "how about faction 25 for AOS? Soulblight Gravelords!"

TSquared wrote:

In my view, 40k has some serious catching up to do and can't really follow why GW is like "how about faction 25 for AOS? Soulblight Gravelords!"

"And their sister faction with it's own book, the Blightlord Soulgraves! They dislike each other despite having almost exactly the same units with minor variation in options and colors- ...wait, this isn't 40k SM? I thought we were releasing another SM sub faction?"

- GW probably

i.e. there are 18 'factions' varied enough to justify their own book.

You left out Space Wolves, Dark Angels, Blood Angels, Ultramarines, Iron Hands, Raven Guard, Salamanders, Deathwatch, Imperial Fists and White Scars, who all have their own books.
Which puts us at 28 faction books for 40k, 11 of which are Loyalist Space Marines. Oh, I guess 12, if we must acknowledge Grey Knights.

edit: oops, left out Imperial Fists!

Rihgu wrote:

i.e. there are 18 'factions' varied enough to justify their own book.

You left out Space Wolves, Dark Angels, Blood Angels, Ultramarines, Iron Hands, Raven Guard, Salamanders, Deathwatch, Imperial Fists and White Scars, who all have their own books.
Which puts us at 28 faction books for 40k, 11 of which are Loyalist Space Marines. Oh, I guess 12, if we must acknowledge Grey Knights.

edit: oops, left out Imperial Fists!

To be fair though only the ones I picked out in red have enough unique units to justify their own book.

The rest could just be bundled into 2 compilation volumes - but it'd require GW to resist wasting space.

ccs wrote:

Rihgu wrote:

i.e. there are 18 'factions' varied enough to justify their own book.

You left out Space Wolves, Dark Angels, Blood Angels, Ultramarines, Iron Hands, Raven Guard, Salamanders, Deathwatch, Imperial Fists and White Scars, who all have their own books.
Which puts us at 28 faction books for 40k, 11 of which are Loyalist Space Marines. Oh, I guess 12, if we must acknowledge Grey Knights.

edit: oops, left out Imperial Fists!

To be fair though only the ones I picked out in red have enough unique units to justify their own book.

The rest could just be bundled into 2 compilation volumes - but it'd require GW to resist wasting space.

To be honest, I only see only a couple books there. The majority of units in each of those factions are exactly the same units covered in Codex: Space Marines with only minor differences if any. Those should all really be a couple books labeled:

Codex: First Founding Chapters (1+2)

the_scotsman wrote:
"here's these absolutely INCREDIBLE classic yet distinctive vampire counts units straight out of gothic super high-fantasy settings like bloodborne and the recent Castlevania anime adaptation...

You could make the exact same bit about primaris - blend of two most beloved SM armour marks (IV and VIII), SM with actual anatomy, good looks, guns that actually look like they work, 'companies' that appeal to anyone liking standard look/tacticool/gothic/terminators, everything that garbage looking squats with broken pelvis missing half of spine did not do - even if tiny, loud minority on forums lacking any good taste pretends it's the other way around

I saw this pic on WC that really rammed it home the other day - paint both the same color scheme, and the difference is day and night (or rather, bottom of a really deep hole), despite this BT model being hailed as one of the ""best"" SM sculpts until recently...

Wow, they look identical.

 Irbis wrote:

the_scotsman wrote:
"here's these absolutely INCREDIBLE classic yet distinctive vampire counts units straight out of gothic super high-fantasy settings like bloodborne and the recent Castlevania anime adaptation...

You could make the exact same bit about primaris - blend of two most beloved SM armour marks (IV and VIII), SM with actual anatomy, good looks, guns that actually look like they work, 'companies' that appeal to anyone liking standard look/tacticool/gothic/terminators, everything that garbage looking squats with broken pelvis missing half of spine did not do - even if tiny, loud minority on forums lacking any good taste pretends it's the other way around

I saw this pic on WC that really rammed it home the other day - paint both the same color scheme, and the difference is day and night (or rather, bottom of a really deep hole), despite this BT model being hailed as one of the ""best"" SM sculpts until recently...

Yep, that sure is a space marine, the thing I see across the table from me seemingly every. single. game. for the past two freaking years since the great xenos exodus of the 2.0dex.

I don't really care if they look very slightly better in a black and white color sceme as opposed to a blue color scheme: I'm just plain sick of looking at 'em. Doesn't help that their playstyle is the same dirt simple boring ass 'half my dudes sit in the back all game and shoot because it would reduce their efficiency to move, the other half either deep strikes right into range or is fast enough to basically just appear right where they want to be".

It's like playing nothing but tau, except that tau have the decency to actually reduce the firepower they put out if you get them into melee, so there's SOMETHING that feels like you're playing against a human. You could program an AI to play every Primaris Marine list possible more easily than you could program an AI to play chessmaster on the gameboy.


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Also, "guns that look like they actually work"

https://www.brushrage.com/minis-db/Primaris-Space-Marine-Infiltrator-3.jpg lol

https://spikeybits.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/08/Screenshot_1003.jpg lol

https://www.games-workshop.com/resources/catalog/product/threeSixty/99120101193_SpaceMarinesPrimarisInceptors1360/01-01.jpg lol

Years of 40k must have melted your brain as to what a 'reasonable gun' looks like.

the_scotsman wrote:

Yep, that sure is a space marine, the thing I see across the table from me seemingly every. single. game. for the past two freaking years since the great xenos exodus of the 2.0dex.

I don't really care if they look very slightly better in a black and white color sceme as opposed to a blue color scheme: I'm just plain sick of looking at 'em. Doesn't help that their playstyle is the same dirt simple boring ass 'half my dudes sit in the back all game and shoot because it would reduce their efficiency to move, the other half either deep strikes right into range or is fast enough to basically just appear right where they want to be".

It's like playing nothing but tau, except that tau have the decency to actually reduce the firepower they put out if you get them into melee, so there's SOMETHING that feels like you're playing against a human. You could program an AI to play every Primaris Marine list possible more easily than you could program an AI to play chessmaster on .

How dare your opponent's play an army you don't like!

Fortunately you can spare yourself the drudgery of playing vs yet another SM army.
All you have to do is..... not play. Or politely decline games vs SM players.
After all, no game is better than playing a game you don't enjoy.

ccs wrote:How dare your opponent's play an army you don't like!

Fortunately you can spare yourself the drudgery of playing vs yet another SM army.
All you have to do is..... not play. Or politely decline games vs SM players.
After all, no game is better than playing a game you don't enjoy.

Got to agree here. Maybe it sucks that you keep playing against the same armies, but no-one owes it to you to change the army they like because you're sick of seeing it.
Maybe some of those people are playing it because it was flavour of the week, but maybe more are playing it because they think it looks cooler, or like the theme.

If other people playing the faction they like is a problem, they're not the one who needs to act on it.

 dan2026 wrote:
The next big 40k release will probably be Orks.

And then hopefully Eldar....

Don't forget we have a fairly big sisters release coming soon. And likely a 'codex and exactly 1 new HQ' Ad Mech release.

And the Chaos Daemons dex may drop around Be'lakor.

 Fergie0044 wrote:

 dan2026 wrote:
The next big 40k release will probably be Orks.

And then hopefully Eldar....

Don't forget we have a fairly big sisters release coming soon. And likely a 'codex and exactly 1 new HQ' Ad Mech release.

Ad Mech is definite, not likely. Their trailer says April (though admittedly in binary).

Sisters are probably May (character, suits, tank, individual release of Piety & Pain LT?, maybe a plane? other things?).
Orks in June seems optimistic, but possible.

Imperial Knights probably should have happened (considering their DLC is already at large in the world), but may end up being a model-less codex just shoved into the schedule somewhere.

 Sgt_Smudge wrote:

If other people playing the faction they like is a problem, they're not the one who needs to act on it.

Yes. GW needs to act on it.

I don't think those statements were intended to blame the players of those factions. I certainly don't. Via regular updates, disproportionate story focus, discounted starter boxes, ease of achieving tabletop quality, unmatched subfaction and supplement variety, and rules that since August 2019 have ranged from the very strong to the utterly ridiculous, GW has created an environment where Space Marines are an overwhelmingly logical choice, when only one of those things - ease of painting to a reasonable standard - is inherent to the design of the faction. I do not blame the players of Space Marines for making such a choice; I blame the setup that makes them such an overwhelmingly clear choice to begin with.

As the Necron popularity surge suggests, GW could be pushing a greater diversity of factions and have a better balance. Instead, we've got a lot of people annoyed about how common and unnecessarily well-served Marines are while other factions languish, and many more that just respond to the sight of a Marine army with a quiet, tired sigh. In here, we've got 26 pages of straight bitterness about the oversaturation of and overreliance on Space Marines with snarky complaints about them in every other thread - with some people in that thread simply and depressingly resigned to being second-class citizens in their own entertainment. Which is kinda fethed.

At this point, "acting on" one's personal tiredness of an endless tide of Space Marines has a few options: Voicing dissent as in here, convincing others to adopt other armies, ditching individual games, or ditching 40K altogether.