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Betrayer is a really good book, and does a lot to flesh out both Lorgar and Angron.

It's a great follow on to Know No Fear which is a great book in and of itself.


Short Story wise I also like Ordo Sinister, just because it's about the only fiction about them.

Prospero Burns was a massive letdown for me after a Thousand Sons.

But I hope you'll have a better time with the White Scars.

The Fulgrim Primarch book is ...special.
While I enjoyed the slower pace of the book, the more political byzantine scheming orientation of it in comparison to bolter porn, there are big flaws.

I particularly enjoyed the bits of the past (the past of the IIIrd, the past of Chemos, etc)
The culpability of Fulgrim of not having been there to help his sons earlier
The difference in the way Fulgrim and Guilliman make diplomacy / subvert worlds peacefully
The imperial agents
The way the people of Byzas see the Astartes, acknowledging their superiority, but not being able to grasp how powerful they exactly are

That's actually kind of refreshing and to have an eye into Fulgrim's grief is eye opening
We can understand that he is not just an arrogant peacock, but that he thrives to become better because he has to do as least as much as the others, with less. With a wounded legion. With judgement by his peers. That reminds me of Alpharius, being found last, that has to prove himself too, mainly by new and superiors way of making war.
He seems to be under pressure, and terrible aware that the balance of his legion depends of him and that no error, no miscalculation, are allowed if they are not only to shine and take their place in the great crusade, but to survive.

The inclusion of Fabius is very interesting. This sheds light on his personality and motivations and why he is the way he is, and it's really well done, and on why Fulgrim tolerates this character, despite being revolted by him. There is a very telling moment when he speaks about simple mortals and tells about bringing them up, enlightening them. Obviously it plays in the theme of the Phoenix, new birth etc but there is a bit of that with Fabius, he wants to "fix" him too and Fulgrim being Fulgrim, he thinks he can and will do it.
That and necessity. Necessity is deeply rooted in Fulgrim's mind and he talks quite a lot about that and being pragmatic and not idealistic. Kinda fun seeing he is totally idealistic himself but okay.


Now, there are big letdowns:

The Astartes characters are awful. Terrible. I can't believe someone read that and thought: "oh yes, that's how elites warriors behave"
They literally fight and talk to each other like children, including in front of people they are supposed to impress and appeal. They throw nicknames at each others and almost go to hands about that several times in 280p book....

Fulgrim is constantly speaking about how he outmatched and outmanoeuvred all the political opponents on Byzas, and made them into a single, easy to decapitate, target while he is spending the whole book doing... absolutely nothing and not getting a single answers to his questions.
Like, really ?
And finally being outmatched by mortals minds (like his men being outmatched by mortals warriors), admitting it at the end of the book but obviously not learning his lessons as the Horus Heresy would show
Would have been maybe better if he truly thought he won, setting his worries asides and giving him confidence and setting him on the path of Heresy
Oh and Fulgrim being said to hate philosophy made my day
I a legion known to embrace all forms of arts and education (marines are actively shown thinking and speaking about songs and musics they write, amongst others things), he is apparently supposed to hate philosophy

Maybe I should read it again I don't know



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 BrookM wrote:
Prospero Burns was a massive letdown for me after a Thousand Sons.

But I hope you'll have a better time with the White Scars.

Haha yes, I was so hyped up after the first few pages, I considered it one of the best black library book at that time
And then I kept reading ...
Thanks, anyways I'll start reading them this month !

I am not a fan of most of the stuff penned by Graham McNeill for the Horus Heresy, only exceptions being A Thousand Sons and the Outcast Dead, even if the both of them have the usual mess of conflicting time lines and whatnot the author is notorious for.

 Argive wrote:
Im at Book 33 So far. Caveat - I only do audio books.

For me its hands down:
Mechanicum.

God I love Mechanicum!! Maybe because its the last book that was narrated by Toby Longworth as far as I can tell thusfar.

Honorable mentions: Legion & Nemesis.
And of course Horus Rising/ Galaxy in flames.

I thought that was the worst book in the entire series. The author uses certain words or phrases very repetitively and it's hard to get a sense of scale on anything because everything is "unimaginably large" or "countless kilometers" long. His writing style seemed like something I would read as fanfiction on 4chan.


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 Void__Dragon wrote:

Space Wolves constantly being described as being possessed of a "wet-leopard growl (or in one case a purr)", or making it canon that the wolves the Space Wolves ride are just giant naked former Space Wolves.

I had almost forgotten about that. It might be the worst piece of fluff in 40k since BA/Necron brofist.

Mark of Calth. Changed how I see the Ultramarines. They take the biggest of punches but drag themselves up and start kicking the crap out of the enemy.

2nd, Master of Mankind, obvious reasons.

3rd , Buried Dagger , fitting that the final book ends showing that the roots of Chaos into the legions started way before Erebus got involved.

 TwilightSparkles wrote:


2nd, Master of Mankind, obvious reasons.

I just went out of order to start this book and I'm loving it so far. The writing style is so much better than some of the other BL authors...

I'm new to the series and I'm only 25% of the way through Galaxy In Flames, but PSA for any UK based readers: LOADS of the HH books are 99p on Kindle.

What are some good books for Rogal Dorn and the Imperial Fists?

Last Wall, maybe Crimson Fist.

Saturnine is also very good when it comes to Rogal Dorn and his legion.

I have been gifted the Marneus Calgar Marvel book, for my birthday, and I must say it's a pretty solid one, and it is quite pretty in addition. I just despise the fact it is post primaris, as the best parts are when we see actual marines in good old MKVII armors, in actions

Is there any prerequisite before reading Master of Mankind ? Does it spoil some narrative arcs ?

Prospero Burns, though it was not the book that I wanted.

Master of Mankind; "and in a sunless realm, the sun rose at last"

The Last Church

The Prince of Crows

Know no Fear
"It then started to rain battle tanks...."
Most 40k line ever

.

 godardc wrote:
Hi there,
Today I finished reading a Thousand Sons and have just started to Prospero Burns. I've to admit A Thousand Sons is now one of my favorite HH book but Prospero Burns starts very "well":
It's very violent, crude and adult in it's description of war and people. Ofc it's Dan Abnett but I wasn't expecting that from a HH novel.
I read Nemesis a few weeks ago and, if it's not a bad book in itself, wasn't as interesting or convincing.
The last time I was that involved in a HH book was with Fulgrim I think.
What about you ?

A thousand sons, Prospero burns, and crimson king are all very good.
I would say my favorite would be Mechanicum, very good book.
Fulgrim was also a very good one, it started very very slow though.

No particular favorite author though.

All this love for Mechanicum makes me wonder if I was reading the same book as everyone else.

Arcanis161 wrote:
What are some good books for Rogal Dorn and the Imperial Fists?

Praetorian of Dorn! No spoilers, but I personally really like the ending.

Toofast wrote:
All this love for Mechanicum makes me wonder if I was reading the same book as everyone else.

You where, it's just everyone has difference tastes. I LOVED Mechanicum because I have loved the Adeptus Mechanicum since I got into 40k. If you aren't a really big Mechanicum fan then its just a passable book with a few little 'woah thats neat' kinda moments.

If you are a fan of Titans, Heriteks, the flesh is weak!!!!! and other mechadentrites then it will scratch that itch. If you aren't then well its a average book.

Personally I really dig Titanticus also. Just cut out all the Sally Samstag bs and just read the Titan/ political stuff going on and its a fantastic book. If you add in the 3rd plot point (aka sally the human so we see stuff through her eyes aka another humans eyes....ugh) its horrible. Cut that 3rd point and its amazingly awesome.

Personally I like Mechanicum, Legion, all the white scars stuff. First Heritic, Betrayal, know no fear. There are a ton of good HH books out there. There is also a lot of dross that can be cut like, battle for the abyss, nemesis, damnation of pythos IMHO.

I tried to stay 'up' on all the books until about the mid 30's then just kinda gave up on the HH books. the fact I could only buy them in hardback or trade paperback pissed me off also. two years later is two years later and im not waiting that long for a book to come out in normal paperback for the collection.

I've just finished "The path to Heaven", and oh, Throne, I did enjoy the White Scars arc !
I actually love the Death Guard bits, totally unexpected but very telling. I'm buying the books about the battle of molech and buried dagger as I'm typing !
It's a nice final touch to the Emperor's Children arc that I started so long ago, and seeing the Traitor Legions mid transformation, already corrupted but not yet the full fledged Chaos legions, was so interesting !
But the second book is so sad, with


The Khan is definitely a great character, he does feel like a Primarch, he is a totally different one from Fulgrim, who is so bad written