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Made in de
Dakka Veteran



Bamberg / Erlangen

 IanMalcolmAbs wrote:
You are right. Ignores d2 is actually not as good as reduce all damage by 1 to a min of 1. Thanks for correcting me whilst no one alive had any difficulty understanding the meaning of ignore d2. Strange though...you see to be claiming it's not that good of an ability...yet clarify it by proving its better...

And DG Terminators ignore d2 and d3? And a Plagueburst Crawler ignores d2, d3, d4, d5, d6, d7, d8, d9 up to d12? What you wrote is simply not correct, live with it.

I did not elaborate on it yesterday, but the initial point is that your parts reductive parts hyperbolic take on the factions is not doing the actual game justice. You put up stuff like "the whole army ignores d2" and "free transhuman" as if that would be sufficient proof that the power is escalating and the balance is gone. No, it is not. Faction balance is more nuanced and neither DG nor DA were oppressive on the tournament scene. Going full ham on transhuman models is even on the weaker side of things.


Imperial Guard Space Marines
 
   
Made in de
Mysterious Techpriest






 Arachnofiend wrote:
I know AdMech players have been complaining about chicken walkers due to a combination of pricing and availability since the army debuted so that could very well be a factor. I don't think they were ever this good before either?


I have a different theory.
AdMech has a very high skill floor and an equally high skill ceiling. The codex has a lot of moving parts and everything needs to be on/applied at the correct time on the correct unit. If you are able to play the codex well, you can crush. However that is quite difficult - it is very easy to get some sand into those gears and things can come to a screeching halt pretty quick. So GT winning tournament players have the experience, computing ability and models and therefore can get the maximum out of the codex. The casual gamer however makes mistakes which drastically reduces the effectiveness of the army. If you transhuman/AP-1/-2 the wrong unit or choose the wrong doctrina, you can get punished quick and hard.
I know even at 1k points its very easy to make this mistakes, even with few buffs and few worthy targets and then you struggle to win "even" against "mid range armies".

Data author of DA/AdM on Battlescribe
Report bugs here:
https://github.com/BSData/wh40k/issues 
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut




 Daedalus81 wrote:


Hypothesis - most Admech players lack the specific units that make them strong and only GT players are bringing what is broken as the models are notoriously expensive.



That seems reasonable. I think it also shows the Codex as a whole isn't too bad in terms of balance compared to the rest of the armies out there. Putting together a fluffy, "normal-looking" AdMech list probably gives you a fairly good list that's not too oppressive. However, there are certain busted things in the Codex that the more competitive players can home in on to improve the list by a huge margin. Combine that with some model availability issues and it's not hard to see that while the overall win rate may be lower than armies like DE, the overall balance may be more of an issue because the broken things are *really* broken. It's another reason why overall win rate is not the best measure of how powerful a Codex can be because it probably includes a bunch of players taking random crap from their collection when the real power of a Codex is defined by the most powerful builds.

It's similar to how CWE have been a lot of the time. Their Codex often contains a lot of bad units and a player building a fluffy Eldar list has a completely different experience to the person spamming planes, or Scatter bikes from 7th.
   
Made in gb
Fresh-Faced New User




I've not got any ballistari to try out any changes in my games but it was obvious from a read of the codex they needed changing.

I run my admech as Mars and I wouldn't be adverse to a slight increase in the cost of the enriched round strategem.

I've not used the ranger strategem, it seems fair to me until you look at the other improvements you can add to the unit's lethality- combining them with a manipulus seems to be what pushes them over the edge. - perhaps a slight change to the manipulus ability is what is needed instead eg it just makes the guns ap-1, instead of applying an additional ap-1. I think the rangers are harder to balance.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/07/21 10:06:38


 
   
Made in gb
Fresh-Faced New User




 Thairne wrote:
 Arachnofiend wrote:
I know AdMech players have been complaining about chicken walkers due to a combination of pricing and availability since the army debuted so that could very well be a factor. I don't think they were ever this good before either?


I have a different theory.
AdMech has a very high skill floor and an equally high skill ceiling. The codex has a lot of moving parts and everything needs to be on/applied at the correct time on the correct unit. If you are able to play the codex well, you can crush. However that is quite difficult - it is very easy to get some sand into those gears and things can come to a screeching halt pretty quick. So GT winning tournament players have the experience, computing ability and models and therefore can get the maximum out of the codex. The casual gamer however makes mistakes which drastically reduces the effectiveness of the army. If you transhuman/AP-1/-2 the wrong unit or choose the wrong doctrina, you can get punished quick and hard.
I know even at 1k points its very easy to make this mistakes, even with few buffs and few worthy targets and then you struggle to win "even" against "mid range armies".


Tied to this though I suspect whichever faction is viewed as the strongest probably attracts more high level player which helps its win %, the more casual player will probably stick with the same army win or lose.

Honestly though I think the reality is that 40K is and always has been a game aimed mostly at casual play, its just too complex with so many factions to really be balanced at a high level. Imagin trying to balance something like Starcraft but with a dozen or more factions interacting rather than just three.
   
 
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