Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

 Jidmah wrote:

gungo wrote:
Just wondering if the original post is going to be updated post faq… taking out some of the issues that’s been addressed and

I think a case can be made for bumping up the warboss on bike a tier. Retaining speedboss, powerklaw and adding an invul and auto advance makes him a step above wartrike especially is you add in ard as nails trait imho.

I think the big Mek in mega armor should go down a tier especially since it no longer can hitch a ride in specialist transport but it’s still kinda the best second choice for HQ though that’s not saying much.

I want to see what happens in the next few tournies but I think either Killrig or kannonwagon is going to be heavily represented in future lists as well.

I currently don't have time to update the post, and I don't think its worth the effort before the kill rig has been released.

In any case, as said multiple times before, you are still completely wrong on the MA big mek thing. The trukk can transport both the big mek and the specialist mob as long as it shares a clan with the big mek.

I must have missed the multiple times correcting me on the big Mek.. I thought the rule stated specialist OR clan meant either or not both but it’s the same wording as before just with specialist added. I still don’t think it’s a great almost required unit on its own. he doesn’t do much. He just fills a slot as a second HQ that has limited options.

Tyel wrote:

 Jidmah wrote:
I'll repost the link here for those who don't follow the quagmire that is dakka general: https://www.reddit.com/r/WarhammerCompetitive/comments/ptoadv/calling_all_warbosses_an_analysis_of_orks_at_lgt/

I was sort of nodding through but for some reason 56 squads of Kommandos (and 49 squads of Storm Boyz and 90~ of the good Buggies) really hit home how skewed things are.

Still, 40 squads of boyz would suggest people are still trying to make use of them.

Lack of models painted and built plus lack of models for the newer stuff skews that list a little. It was also pre-faq so I think we might see more warboss on bike. But overall ya it’s squigbuggy, scrapjet, kommando, stormboy, squigboss, wartrike or warboss on bike, Dakkajet spam… and surprisingly (to me at least) kff big Meks. I thought the destroying your kff strat just made that combo overpriced but it works I guess. Also if I don’t see killrigs pop up in a lot of lists I’ll be surprised.

I’m hoping for a decent dreadwaagh or greentide army of renown in the campaign book to add more variety but heck I’d take a beastsnagga theme list if that works too.

 Tomsug wrote:

 Blackie wrote:

Stormboyz and Kommandos can be played in units of 10 . Stormboyz also have fly which might help to bypass some terrain or other units, even enemy screeners maybe, while trukks (and boyz) have to find a clear path in front of them.

That is right. Kommandos however die before do enything if you go second. So it' s maybe the waste of the points. Or maybe not.. depends… at least, they have a good save.

Stormboyz in squad of 10 - well - deifnitely not able to charge T1, cost 110p and has no protection. Trukkboyz are protected by trukk, kommandos by cover.

All of this depends heavily on your gameplan. What do what and why. Non of these 3 units is uterly wrong. All good for scoring primaries, secondaries and blocking movement/control table. Non of them deal a significant damage except killing some GEQ.

On the other side, MANz in Trukk imho are wrong, because what was said before. These cannot do well anything of what metioned above. And their damage potential is low per point in comparison with other damage dealing units like scrapjets. Plus they tend to be dead before do anything.

People use kommandos to control the board. I mean like every single tournament list has at least 2 min squads of them. They almost never die before they do something. They prevent the other player from scouting, or redeploying closer. They can hold mid board objectives and they are actually one of our most durable infantry units considering they are still fairly cheap t5 3+ save in cover units. I mean I’ve seen them with or without the cheap 5pt powerklaw and I’ve seen a few 10x man units as well, but the most common is the 50pt min squad. If you are looking for trukk boys or kommandos or stormboys to provide some type of meaningful melee rush unfortunately that tactic isn’t the best right now. Your best bet is the triple patrol, kommando, stormboy, 3x trukk boy spam list and that isn’t going to win any tournaments either.

Stormboys are also used frequently mostly to play the objective grabbing game and use thier fast flight movement to avoid line of sight.

What’s better nob on smashasquig w/ killchoppa relic OR 3x squigriders…..

Cost is about the same but squigriders has more wounds and attacks vs smashasquigs mortal wounds and better attacks… goff clan of that makes a difference in decision.

I’m just using the warboss on bike now… (with killaklaw and ard as nails) if the only reason to take the wartrike is the cloud of smoke strat then a unit of multiple scrapjets has a much bigger footprint.

Goff Beastboss w BBK and beasthide is still durable with a ton of str 8 attacks that has a decent chance of connecting with BBK.

And now adding a nob on smashasquig w killchoppa relic as it’s also a decent melee character missle protected by 3-6 squigriders.

Question is the extra Kustom blasta +1 shot or an extra d3 shots on a mega blasta?

 Grotrebel wrote:

gungo wrote:
Question is the extra Kustom blasta +1 shot or an extra d3 shots on a mega blasta?

+1 shot because it's one extra attack and not one more additional shooting.

Thanks the reason I ask is this is my final rejigged list was hoping the big Mek would be slightly better shooting potential but he’s at least now able to do more.

 Afrodactyl wrote:

gungo wrote:

 Grotrebel wrote:

gungo wrote:
Question is the extra Kustom blasta +1 shot or an extra d3 shots on a mega blasta?

+1 shot because it's one extra attack and not one more additional shooting.

Thanks the reason I ask is this is my final rejigged list was hoping the big Mek would be slightly better shooting potential but he’s at least now able to do more.

Spoiler:

Patrol- klan: Goff
Beastboss on squig- warlord trait:Brutal but kunnin, relic1:beasthide

Beastsnagga x10- on Killrig -obj secured
Beastsnagga x10- on Killrig -obj secured

4x squigriders
3x squigriders
Nob on smashasquig w/ killchoppa relic

Killrig- frazzle, spirit of gork
Killrig- frazzle, squiggly curse

Outrider-deathskulls -3cp
Warboss on bike- relic2:killaklaw, bigboss1:ard as nails, -2cp
Bigmek in mega armor w/Kff w x-kustom blasta- obj secured

5x kommandos-obj secured
5x kommandos-obj secured

3x scrapjet
1x squigbuggy-nitro squig
1x squigbuggy
1x squigbuggy
5x stormboys- obj secured
5x stormboys- obj secured

6cp left over

I like the list. I personally would put Ard as Nails on the Squigboss and Brutal but Kunnin on the Bikerboss, but that's my preference. Let us know how you get on with the build.

The reason I put BBK on squigboss is with mantle he has 7x str 7 atks on charge with 3 squig bites and goff exploding 6s with the BBK he doesn’t need a relic weapon to be a strong melee threat or horde blender.

Whereas the bikerboss with killaklaw hits hard enough but he only has 5 atks and he doesn’t need BBK to connect with str12 ap-4 dam3 and deathskull reroll.. ard as nails also makes him a little more durable with his 5++ and t7 body.. but ya I’ll have to play to see.. just need to build those units.

I can’t take 4 relics for relic shoota.. and I think the killchoppa on nob is a bigger upgrade then Shoota relic on big Mek especially since deathskull reroll to hit on kmb and having no transport on a slow big Mek means 24in is more valuable. Although I don’t think the 10 points for an extra hit on kmb is the best use of points. I can use them for 2x powerklaw on deathskull kommandos or 2x bomb squigs on squigriders but neither of those will do a lot either.

I’m purposely limiting myself on buggies as I currently have 6 (2x scrapjets) I know as soon as I buy 2-3 more buggies they will get a points hike!!! This includes me proxy my other buggies and using a magnetized battlewagon with weirdboy on turret as my other Killrig.. I try not to chase spam lists as I’ll never paint it in time. Also I’m out of fast attack slots :p but I think 8-9 buggies is ideal in a blood axe detachment.


If you had the same psychic powers but no squigriders what did you use spirit of gork on?
That power is a pretty decent damage boost to squigriders especially units of 4-6…. If it wasn’t for the killchoppa on smashasquig nob being as strong as he is by himself. I’d probably take 3x more squigriders instead and have 2 units of 5 riders.

XC18 wrote:
Any Tau army would almost auto lose against Ghazhkull. As they would be unable to take him more than 4wounds per turn, he can run rampage at least for 3 full turns.
It doesn't matter how good is the Tau player, and this is definitely a codex issue.

I mean ghaz is slow movement and is able to be tied down w chaff so just tie him up and slow him down and ignore him. He isn’t going to bother a good tau player.

I don’t see anything in your list that deserves a nerf.. (maybe kommandos compared to other infantry in codex) but honestly most of our infantry units are poorly costed.
If a nerf is coming I’d expect point hike on squigbuggy and scrapjet but that it unless killrigs blow up the meta which they won’t since large vehicles don’t usually do well in 9th.
Honestly I’m just waiting for the campaign book leaks now. New relics and a detachment of renown can only help with list diversity. We are kinda stuck currently in multiple varients of scrapjet/squigbuggy spam as our only competitive tourney list. I mean varients of freebooter, or evilsun with a rare occasional goff or deathskull secondary detachment is the most variety we see. Hoping for a dreadmob or greentide heck I’d take beastsnagga detachment of renown.

I mean your list screams bloodaxe..
Deffskulls encourage kommandos or stormboys for obj secured units
Freebooters wants you to go in heavy on freebooters and load up on Dakka shooting.
And bloodaxes if mostly for buggyspam using fallback and charge or shoot.

Ya I was talking about the outrider detachment that’s already bloodaxe.. that detachment is designed for bloodaxe.
All your points regarding freebooters etc I agree with.

I mean you can bring ghaz for fun but he’s objectively worse then a beastboss on squig. He’s like almost decent but his lack of fast movement, no sweep atk, and almost reliance on dual Waagh makes it hard to fully utilize him. But he’s still a beat stick that usually last 2 turns even if focus fired by most armies.

Rising tide on preorder next week and still no rumors of ork rules

I mean if people need confirmation on a forum that more then buggy spam is playable and sometimes decent in most matchups feel free to enjoy your
Buggy spam lists
trukk boy lists
Walker lists
Ghaz goff Greentide lists
triple patrol kommodo/storm trooper spam
Beastsnagga squig lists
Warbiker lists


Enjoy your evil suns, bloodaxes, deathskulls, goffs, snakebites, freebooter and even badmoon (which kinda is the least competitve).

If you build and play any ork lists well enough they are all viable..
heck even the stompa is playable this edition…

You can probbaly win a small local tournament with any of those lists…

But when people talk about buggy lists being the most competitive it’s based on the fact they keep winning or placing high in tournaments. This doesn’t mean you can’t use anything else in the codex or that that’s the only way to play.

The list I made in the list section on dakka isn’t the most competitive. I don’t know if 18x squigbuggy/scrapjet is the best list for tournaments. I just know I don’t enjoy spamming 2 unit lists and I like a little more variety. And I also don’t want to buy 11x more buggies. (I’m already proxing 1x squigbuggy in my current list) So I wanted some melee boys to scrap it up. It’s competitive enough for me to enjoy playing and win most matchups…

So bottom line is yes 3x 30x ghaz goff greentide is viable to play. Is it better then trukk boy, kommando, stormboy spam? I don’t think so, but in the right player hands it can be. Personally I enjoy my 2x snaggaboys. They are annoying enough to deal with after the Killrig is destroyed and are decent vs most vehicles and monsters.

On a more important note…. Are we even getting anything this campaign book?



Automatically Appended Next Post:

Since we are airing grievances I’m not a huge fan of Dakka profile should have just left everything as rapid fire or assault and given all rapid fire +1 shot in speed Waagh

And the nob with banner should have been a morale instead of another +1 hit probbaly like the crusade relic +1 ld aura and ignore attrition modifiers within 12in to clan models.

Breaking heads shouldn’t have been a strat but a warboss/beastboss aura.

I don’t think a lot of people who make non-bloodaxe buggy list realize how easy it is to lock down buggy spam. If you are going to put a few buggies in a non-blood add list it’s fine but if your throwing out 8+ buggies in another clan your just asking to get those buggies tied in combat especially when you put them in squadrons.
Regarding boys they need some more morale mitigation in the form of nob w banner and warboss breakin eads aura added back. Beyond that I wouldn’t mind seeing the +1 atk for being over 20 boys brought back, mob up strategem returned, and maybe powerklaw down to 5ppm. Trukk boys specialist would have been fine with multiple boys units being allowed to take it. Regarding points if you did the above they boys would be okay. Gretchin definitely need a 1ppm drop they are by far the weakest unit in game for 5ppm. Even cultists and horrors are stronger then Gretchin. Either that or allow Gretchin benefit from klan aura.

They can only transport snaggaboys

They count toward assassinate secondary

They are big models that clog up movement

You only get the rerolls on main weapon if you cast a psychic power which is harder to do when you only have a choice of 6 powers half of which aren’t good or extremely situational.

I think the sweet spot is 2 with some buggy spam so the killrigs become sponges for the buggies.

I’m still waiting to see how they do in tournaments.

Looks like we are in a good position.. we are not dominating in the top tables to get hit much if at all with the nerf bat… and we have room for growth with the just released models now being allowed in lost tournaments/games…. Plus hopeful with a campaign book 2 addition. I’m happy not being included in the top 3 broken codex list.

Ya the only vehicle I can see benefiting from goff is Killrig with its 14 melee atks. 8 of those atks benefit from the +1 str by hitting those str6 str8 levels. And exploding 6s has a decent chance at going off.
If youre somehow able to get a fist of gork psychic power off on it as well… you have one of the best ork melee vehicles in game. With 16x str8+ atks with exploding 6s.

But on normal buggies I wouldn’t put a buggy in that klan unless I had no other clan to put it in. You are better off with deathskulls reroll for shooting and melee and the 5++ toward invuls.

You do realize boys and Gretchin were are best units pre buggies and they weren’t really undecosted. We ain’t marines :p

I don’t see boys, trukks and Gretchin getting anything else this edition.
At best I see an army of renown next campaign book for beastsnaggas or dread mob. (Gw would be silly to give us a speedwaagh army of renown).

I think dread mobs are close to being viable with maybe something like +1 to wound army of renown on all walkerz keyword.
An obj secured specialist unit for killa kans with +1 hit ranged - in dread mob only
And warlord trait to call a dread waaagh on a big Mek.

I don’t see a reason to play any specialist except orrible gitz just to make Gretchin obj secured…
Trukk boyz just feels overpriced and is less of a threat then regular boys but you can use them to make your troop tax for your turn 1 pressure list.
And that’s about it… I literally don’t even take the free specialist option in a detachment most times unless I take Gretchin.
I mean the implementation is better then last version and the idea is sound making a subclan that fits into a detachment that allows you to take other units that don’t necessarily benefit from the main klan but the majority of the subclans are so weak it’s worse off most times. They should have just let the unit stay within the clan so they can benefit from buffs and auras but have a different kultur. And maybe tweak a few specialist mobs so they are slightly better.

They don’t need to stack with kultur as that may cause some unintended balance issues.

But the idea was sound… allowing a clan to take a unit that doesn’t benefit from the kultur usually like a shooty unit in a goff detachment that doesn’t really get a benefit from goffs. All I think they really needed was just to make specialist stay the same klan but exchange thier kultur to the specialist kultur this way all the auras and clan buffs still work but you can’t stack kulturs. A few slight buffs to some really bad specialist options as well and it would open up list building a bit more and allow GW the option to add more specialist options later and balance each specialist buff individually.

 Grimskul wrote:

DoktaRoksta wrote:

 G00fySmiley wrote:

pismakron wrote:
I think its a problem that Freebooterz are so good for shooting, that many units become hard to balance. Logan Heath just annihilated all opposition with his buggy+jets freeboterz list

https://youtu.be/5SD2OVJbcKg

The problem is that if you nerf these units so that they are balanced in a Freebooterz army, then they become useless in other kulturs. But buggies and jets are definitely going to be hit with the nerfbat.

ugg the worse part here is meta chasers in admech and dark eldar who are now online and in game stores last night going on about how overpowered orks are. meanwhile when I an ork player bring my fast orks of buggies warbikes and planes and wipe out said armies on the regular they always blame their bad dice and "what should have happened". Then when they wipe out a space marine list and i struggle against it they declare "see i should have beaten that army" ... then not understanding when i say "its rock paper sissors of 9th edition bro, your list basically can't beat me most of the time and i can't beat space marines generally"

Also the fact that people keep say "its a problem" that orks took a major when admech and dark eldar have been topping charts for close to a year is rather infuriating. The regular tournament players who i go against (my meta includes soem heavy hitters) would flat out say their best chance against orks is to not face them in a bracket since so few people run them its not hard to do. With a major win people will adapt. I think more marine lists will show up which will just put admech and dark eldar back on top as those ork lists get shredded early on and get down bracketed then thhe same armies will dominate up top.

100%, it’s slightly amusing to see the hysteria about one overwhelming win in one game in one tournament. Sadly there will be fallout from all the whining.

Agreed. For whatever reason, having Orks make any competitive showing really triggers a lot of the FoTM tourney people, I think partly because Orks are not a meta-chaser friendly army given how expensive we are to collect and how skew dependent we are that relies a lot of internal understanding of the army versus the point and click "I-Win" buttons of armies that are easier to use and have straightforward strats or units that basically play themselves. Unfortunately, i think a lot of people bought into the general narrative that "Orks are an NPC army" kool aid.

It kinda happened before when greentide did well in 1-2 tournaments and all of a sudden they screamed al boys were underpriced and broken… this current version however moreso because it was a slaughtering as the dark elder player left his entire low toughness venom army right in max shot Dakka Dakka range or a gunline and had zero protection vs any type of mass volume shooting. Sadly this only means I expect all buggies and flyers to be getting a points hike sooner then later. Irregardless of the fact ad mech and drukari are pushing 60-70% win rates and winning most tournaments… ffs the ork player literally faces 3 dark eldar lists in a row.

 Vineheart01 wrote:
He faced 3 in a row, with a list clearly intended to beat the snot out of drukari?
Pfft, nowonder he won so easily.

Even better the ork list actually lost a battle during the tournament…
His list was NOT undefeated….

But ya know he won vs an assault list (that was undefeated until that point) with little to no shooting and no real antitank weapons with a shooty tank list and it’s now somehow his army is broken. The amount of raging on this is insane… and this won’t fix the real problem of the ork player using 4 flyers and large base buggies sandwiched between terrain and the board edge to completely screen out all assault. It’s going to be nerf ork buggies and flyers cause I lost. Ignoring the fact NONE of these are new models and the ork codex has been out since July with nearly every tournament since having some varient of freebooter shooting spam using these exact models. Nor does anyone blame the drukari player for taking a pure assault spam list spamming low strength dam 2 weapons that are bad vs orks vehicle only list. No it’s the orks fault cause he played a strong list vs drukari…

I think the issue is Sean is a nice guy and a well respected player who got absolutely man handled in this game by taking a win at all cost tactic that backfired because he felt he had no
Other Choice. He claims even if he fell back and counter charged later he would have still been tabled (maybe turn 3) and he’s probably right.

But that’s not necessarily the ork codex fault… Sean took an army with low antitank but extreme assault and fragile. It was hard countered by a shooty vehicle spam list that Sean had no answer for… is this the ork codex fault? Or Sean list building fault? Does drukari not have enough anti tank in thier codex? They do btw….

So we are back to the jist of the complaints people don’t like rock, paper, scissors play that even one of the best players can’t overcome because they lose during list building when they make a skew army to combat 2 wound elite squads instead of anti tank. They don’t like the fact even when someone places themselves in the absolute worst position possible they can lose 75% of thier army from making a bad decision that backfired. And I’m not saying Sean had a lot of choice here. I’m saying he could not have made a worst list and placed it in a worst position if he tried vs this ork build.

The bottom line is this.. orks have a balanced 50% win rate, orks have a high to mid high range in placing a in major tournaments.. orks are still less then 10% of all placings. And most importantly outside of drukari orks are not wiping out most armies off the table… the vast majority of other competitive codexs ad mech, greyknights, space marines, adeptus soritas, deathguard, t-sons, etc are all tough fights for orks.

However currently drukari make up ~25% of all tournament placings.. currently drukari have a 60%+ win rate… and when an ork list gets to the top tables as it did in this 1 tournament where the player faced 3x drukari armies in a row the ork codex and it’s 1 competitive build seems a lot more powerful Becuase they hard counter drukari… that is the issue…and people lost thier freakin minds afterwards.

Disappointed we are getting a speedfreak army of renown. It’s like the one list we didn’t need buffed. I was really hoping for dread waaagh or heck beastsnagga…
The funniest thing is even if freebooter gets nerfed due to the ork freak out at SoCal this book is bringing a bloodaxe supplement which is probably better for buggies anyway. I’m happy for bloodaxes but neither of these buffs are going to help with people literally losing it right now.

 Vineheart01 wrote:
its entirely possible the speedfreek of renoun list is garbage restriction anyway, since almost all of the renouns have a disgusting limitation.
All vehicles or bikes wouldnt really stop us from using it obviously but if it was "all buggies in squads of 3" it could be obnoxious enough where it doesnt show up.

Still disappointed it’s not a buff to another type of list build.

SemperMortis wrote:

Beardedragon wrote:
Is there a reason you picked Warbosses over Beast bosses on squiggosaurs?

I put two of them in Trukkz to go with the Trukkboyz and get stuck in as quick as possible. They are also significantly cheaper and do about less but similar dmg for the most part. Another reason not to take Beastboss on Squigs is that they don't benefit my list except as beat sticks. On top of that, the warbosses move 12' turn 1, get out and move 5 so turn 2 they have crossed 20' of the board, the same as the squigz. I might switch out the Mega Warboss for the Beastboss on Squigosaur for added dmg potential, but I would have to scrounge out another 30pts from somewhere, and the only thing I can think to do would be to remove a unit :(

I also forgot to mention I had a weirdboy in there as well. He takes Fists and Da Jump.

I mean the mega warboss should do as much damage as the warboss on squig and doesn’t have any mobility issues with this list which tends to be his biggest problem…
Are you using BBK and killchoppa relic or krushing armor relic? I mean he might do slightly more damage w the killchoppa but he’s even more durable then the squigboss w krushing armor.

This list should benefit from the blood axe codex… it will be interesting to see what they get.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Jidmah wrote:
Judging from other armies of renown, it is possible that the speed freeks do not get to chose their clan (locked into ES, for example). There will also be limits on what units you can take, traditionally the don't have walkers.

Poor walkers… so neglected… if the army of renown only prevents things like walkers that’s not really a detriment right now… although it might make warbikers popular again… which wouldn’t be a bad thing.